RELEASED: Vehicle Test 41
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27 minutes ago, RobertJohnson said:

we call it candle in French

in car mechanic simulator 2015 they call it "spark plug"

 

28 minutes ago, RobertJohnson said:

"fan belt" ?

in cms2015 there is "serpentine belt"

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1 hour ago, RobertJohnson said:

Engine removal: no go, it's really a hard part, require lot of extra pieces to do (don't know exactly the correct term in English :/)

 

Engine parts: it's coming, i don't know the term in English, but i thought about the "fan belt" ? the oil and the.. erm... thing that make the car start (we call it candle in French, not sure it's the exact word here.. :D)

The front radiator will be part of it also, i'm still working on engine temperature :)

 

Kim, the thing is, you know a shit ton in mechanic, so it seem easy to you, but I need to make a system that doesn't feel overwhelming, but still feels good for people who knows cars stuff :) (hence why i added lot of cusomization for parts)

 

Also, FYI: I've worked on mechanic skill bit more, but I don't want to implement it yet 'cause it'll make it harder for people to test mechanics ;)

But RJ, you've already made a system that has too much detail in certain places. This is the problem with most of the game; the detail's inconsistent and unplanned.

 

Why are there three types of tires, three types of brakes, three times of seats, three trunks, yet "remove engine" is going too far? No one is replacing the bed of their truck by themselves, without at the very least an floor crane, anyway, same as a bunch of other stuff you just added, so trying to keep it "simple" while not pissing off people who are into cars is already a failed mission.

 

Not that it needs a separate UI. I don't think PZ needs to be Street Rod 2 from 1990, with separate distributor tuning, though it was fun:
 

 

 

You're putting a mechanic profession in the game. Have them do mechanic things, such as pulling one of three or four classes of engine from the three or four archetypes of vehicles. Randomize their power/condition stat to some extent for each vehicle on spawn, similar to CDDA, if you want to make it more fun. It doesn't need to be detailed either. You're not pulling out the alternator, the fan belts, decoupling the transmission, removing the radiator hoses, draining the oil, hoisting the engine, removing the mounting bolts .etc. None of that needs to be represented.

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hm.. here's some bugs I've noticed testing cars.

1) When I turn off the engine, the Car Key makes its own copy in the inventory. So if I turn off the engine 10x times, I'll get 10x Car Key...

2) Not sure if Saves should work normally in this test build.. I saved my game, standing in about 10 meters from my truck and it's gone, when I loaded that save..

*UPD* It happened twice. Used cars are disappear after loading saves.

3) "Zombie attraction multiplier" option works strange. In settings "1.0" (it supposed to be a minimum value) they move to my car from every screen edge (with maximum Zoom Out). So I use "0" and they almost have no reaction.

 

 

Edited by icexenom

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@RobertJohnson I appreciate the kind words but that is not what I am trying to say.

 

I can survive with the current system, but the whole trunk replacement system is just extremely inconsistent and doesn't make logical sense.

 

I'd be willing to say "I'm fine with this" to just having trunk swaps be between compatible vehicles, but the implication that you are going to take the trunk compartment from a sedan and use it in a station wagon is the equivalent of removing space from the station wagon and stuffing in a container for basically no reason, while removing the rest of the space from the wagon.

 

I'm with you on not making it overly complex but the level of detail here is highly inconsistent, trunk customization should only be for applicable vehicles, not cars that don't use separate compartments at all. Vehicles where the trunk should be a set space and not removable/swappable: Van, Stepvan, Pickup (and pickup with the shell), Station wagon). Everything else, yeah, okay, but not those vehicles, as it is illogical, counterproductive and removes individuality from those specific vehicles.

 

The logic issue is that these vehicles do not have separate compartments for storage, therefore can't be removed and can't be replaced. This isn't even that it's weird to car guys, it just doesn't make sense overall.

 

 

Edited by Kim Jong Un

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17 minutes ago, EG Bot said:

You know what'd solve this, Kim? A cutting torch.

We'll just cut these cars in half and weld them to other cars.

 

I know the heart's in the right place, the concept just doesn't work logically for these specific vehicles.

 

The reason why these vehicles shouldn't have a swappable trunk is the same reason why the pickup truck doesn't.

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the sandbox option that zombies cannot damage player construction isn't working, they keep tearing down my barricades, also when i turn on a radio with headphones plugged in, zombies can still hear it.

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3 hours ago, RobertJohnson said:

Those having the bug when your car crash into something, are you on Linux or Mac? Anyone on Windows have this bug too? Can't reproduce here :/


Any mods also?

Im on windows, posted a bug report see there for details. 

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4 hours ago, RobertJohnson said:

Those having the bug when your car crash into something, are you on Linux or Mac? Anyone on Windows have this bug too? Can't reproduce here :/


Any mods also?

----

On 10/14/2017 at 8:43 PM, Svarog said:

Every time I crash into something I get this error that then repeats ad infinitum until the games is force closed, the save where it happens tends to be unloadable afterwards. [Video of the error is somewhere back on page 1]

No mods, revalidated game files, on steam, off steam, no idea wth this is.

Specs:
Intel Pentium G2030 2x3Ghz
Intel HD 3000 Graphics
4GB DDR3 Ram
Windows 7
 

  Reveal hidden contents

1508005705875 hitCharacter velocity=( 2.903E-4  0.000E+0  2.731E-1) speed=0.27312148 dot=-0.96609175 clientForce=0.0
1508005706962 hitCharacter velocity=(-4.826E-1  0.000E+0  1.986E+0) speed=2.0434775 dot=-0.93752205 clientForce=0.0
1508005708071 hitCharacter velocity=( 2.520E+0  0.000E+0  6.685E-1) speed=2.6071417 dot=0.9624327 clientForce=0.0
java.lang.NullPointerException
    at zombie.vehicles.PolygonalMap2.getChunkFromSquarePos(PolygonalMap2.java:3670)
    at zombie.vehicles.PolygonalMap2.getSquare(PolygonalMap2.java:3674)
    at zombie.vehicles.PolygonalMap2.access$2(PolygonalMap2.java:3673)
    at zombie.vehicles.PolygonalMap2$VisibilityGraph.addPerimeterEdges(PolygonalMap2.java:1735)
    at zombie.vehicles.PolygonalMap2.createVisibilityGraph(PolygonalMap2.java:2131)
    at zombie.vehicles.PolygonalMap2.createVisibilityGraphs(PolygonalMap2.java:2141)
    at zombie.vehicles.PolygonalMap2.updateThread(PolygonalMap2.java:3838)
    at zombie.vehicles.PolygonalMap2$PMThread.runInner(PolygonalMap2.java:3925)
    at zombie.vehicles.PolygonalMap2$PMThread.run(PolygonalMap2.java:3914)


 

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20 hours ago, EG Bot said:

But RJ, you've already made a system that has too much detail in certain places. This is the problem with most of the game; the detail's inconsistent and unplanned.

 

That was my first thought too as I read the DD some days ago...

 

all the ideas I read are great but...  sometimes I think there is too much focus on making the cars unnessessary complicated/detailed for the time now

 

the game is about zombie apocalypse not "sim mechanic 2018"... (with all respect to all mechanic sim fans) I would be VERY happy to have a simple but working car system which can be make more detailed later

 

The level of detail the devs are trying to get is great (!!) but when I compare it with the level of detail in your other game machanics it is simply not consistent :/  (farming could be WAY more detailed, as well as diagnostics, tool usage, carpentry, metallworking etc pp - clothing system I will not add as I think it will be made new from the scratch with the anomation system)

 

I can understand that you want to get the cars realistic as possible but that whould not be the goal at this point.. just to make it "work great"... 

 

I think you are doing great - no doubt about that - but please don't let yourself get stock in microdetailing the cars at the moment...

 

f.ex. it would be much more logical to add detail to the carpentry system with screws as more robust nails etc instead of all 128 parts of the engine to be simulated real time ... I just don't know...

 

(if I use the same level of details on the "make a plank" action you would have to a) chop down the tree and survive the fall (!! without any knowlage/skill you will most likly just crash yourself under it one way or another) ) b) chop the trunk to logs (or not if you want to build a wall instead of a fence !) and remove all branches c) dry the wood for days/weeks/months ! d) remove the bark e) grind the log smooth f) saw some planks out of the wood g) impregnate the plank to make it weather proof ... and I am sure I am missing some important points... now we have 2 clicks with 2 tools and from tree to plank in nearly no time at all AND IT IS WORKING)

 

there are a lot of thinks that are great for itself but not consistent around the game - like the new vehicle weel-UI (created for gamepad users only) and the TV/Radio device UI with is GREAT for mouse-users and looking great too imo... each is working in it's own way but they just don't belong together imo

 

PS sorry about the confusing post.. not much time and it was really bothering me for days now so I had to give it a try :/

 

long story short meening: you are doing great per se, but try to be more consistent all in all

 

 

Edited by King-Salomon

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I think the whole "loss of inventory from trunks if damaged/open" thing really needs to be reconsidered.

 

Yes, i agree that an open trunk should throw out items if you full on crash into something. However, throwing stuff out simply because it is open or damaged in any way is just silly, especially if all you're doing is driving forward or lightly bump something. This will likely cause more annoyance for players than add any proper gameplay value.

 

-----------

 

On another note, I also agree with guy above me. Many of the additions being made are great and all, but they aren't all necessary. It has taken you 6 months to fix major multiplayer bugs I reported in May 2017, where features like car shadows and break lights has taken priority for some reason. The focus should really be on making everything polished and run smoothly, not adding tons of gimmicks and complexity. I get that adding stuff is way more fun to do than bug fixing :D But really though!

 

Now that MP is supposedly playable again though, I look forward to returning to MP testing very soon! Keep up the good work!

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1 minute ago, iwawa said:

Many of the additions being made are great and all, but they aren't all necessary. It has taken you 6 months to fix major multiplayer bugs I reported in May 2017, where features like car shadows and break lights has taken priority for some reason.

 

This was my fault when I was directing Yuri as my general direction was to take a while getting SP stuff solid in the vehicles beta strand before moving on to MP, but with hindsight I now see that this wasn't the correct course of action.

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@King-Salomon Not quite what i mean, Salomon. Here's a neandering reply that might or might not make any sense.

 

If we just look at cars, there was little need to make trunks removable, for there two be three different tires, or for there to be two separate 12v batteries. It doesn't really seem to accomplish the goal of making it simple,. Some of it isn't realistic, or based on the American reality when it comes to car parts (vintage-appearance white-wall radial tires exist, balloon / ply haven't really been in use since late 70s). It's odd to have such a degree of detail and choice for seats, but not to consider the removal and installation of an engine, or some basic tinkering options in the right-click menu. To be fair to RJ, I think he will consider it and I'm not saying any of the above is bad. It just needs to take a bit more inspiration from reality and get polished up a bit. Maybe shake out some of the over-complexity. It's a great start.

 

Complexity itself isn't bad. There's a ton in the game that's just over-simplified and, while I disagree with certain additions for this specific skill, they could really benefit from additional detail. For example, changing carpentry to foundation -> frame -> sheathing material and basing the max height / quality of the result based on the options. We got the start of that with 2x building, but then it just kind of faded into the background as other things were worked on. Electrician and engineering are prime examples of this. You basically have one method to gain XP (disassemble things) and you can only do one specific thing with them. Medical professions are even more lacking. They just give debuffs to healing. No unique recipes or actions.  These are entire professions that won't have anywhere near the depth of the mechanical skill, but could be expanded to be consistent with other skills, like cooking. It really should be -- aside from whatever the Meta Director thing does in the future, this is the meat of the game.

 

Some of this is just because PZ's setting is a bit too realistic, by choice. Cars aren't likely to feel that unique or customized because a lot of this is going to be behind the scenes (invisible stats, limited physics model and terrain, not a racing-sim), cars will be relatively plentiful (quarantine, so it's not like there's anywhere for them to go), and TIS is going to be limited by how much customization they can do to the 3D models (unlike a rogue-like, such as CDDA).

 

Complexity, in the right places, is really fun. It gives us the ability to make choices. Customization for customization's sake, like three different tires in a game where it won't really have much of an impact, is just kind of pointless  (we're not going to be drifting corners in extreme head-to-head races) . . .

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9 hours ago, RobertJohnson said:

Those having the bug when your car crash into something, are you on Linux or Mac? Anyone on Windows have this bug too? Can't reproduce here :/


Any mods also?


I ran with NecroForge debug display to see if something changes when I crash into something (Seeing as console output seems to indicate that it's coordinate related and it fails to get a square and nf debug thing outputs coordinate info)

So, for some reason, when I crash into something the Z coordinate outputs nan (Not A Number) What's funny is I can exit the vehicle it will turn back to 0, I can run away from the vehicle so the error stops popping up but nothing other than UI will render and only quitting the game and starting it back up will fix it.

That help somehow?

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10 hours ago, RobertJohnson said:

Those having the bug when your car crash into something, are you on Linux or Mac? Anyone on Windows have this bug too? Can't reproduce here :/


Any mods also?

I am on windows. At first I had necroforge on but I thought it could be causing the problem, so I deactivated it and the error still happens. But to be honest sometimes I don't even need to hit anything, it just happens out of the blue. everything goes black except for the UI, only reloading fixes it, but my character comes out of the car exhausted and never recovers. I will try to make a video tomorrow to show how it is.

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I have been enjoying this vehicle build, although i had to spawn in some vehicles with mods, none of the burned cars show up for me and the 2 Modern Sedans don't seem to spawn on the map just yet and the Sports car (corvette) is hard to find.

 

So far, the vehicles are quite nice, the handling is responsive, I do find the deceleration and braking a bit too fast for the cars. And there could be a bit more bodyroll in the vehicles, but i'm assuming that this all is still Work in Progress.

 

I noticed a few odd graphical imperfections, which i will point out below:

HKWTwfy.png

 

  • On "Modern Car 02" the rear bumper texture doesn't allign with the side of the texture, there should be a 5 pixel gap in the texture between the bumper and the taillights.
  • "Small Car 02" 4 doors are drawn, the 2 rear doors are unrealistically small, and the vehicle only has 2 doors according to the scripts and mechanical menu.
  • On "Van" the Text on the Mccoy livery is Mirrored on all sides.

 

A few other bugs/nitpicks that may already have been mentioned:

  • You can't enter the "Small Car" (Hatchback) on the drivers side, and when entering on the other side, you can't move to the drivers seat to drive it, The same problem happens with the van.
  • "Engine door" should be renamed to "Hood" (or Bonnet)
  • "Rear headlights" should be renamed to "Taillights"
  • You can sometimes remove the brakes without removing the tires beforehand, this happens to me sometimes when i've already switched the brakes and tires once before.
  • The "Trunk" Item should not be removeable on a car, i think like mentioned earlier, it should be a fixed space on the car to store items on.
  • The middle row seats (for the passenger van) have a bookcase display icon in teh inventory.
  • The sirens on most vehicles (except the ambulance) Go to black (missing texture?) instead of blinking brighter.
  • On some vehicles, the wheels aren't in the center of the wheel arches (on modern car 02 the front wheels are a bit too far forward)

Other than the above things, I've been enjoying this build a lot. haven't had any crashes so far.

 

Some of the things i hope to see in the future:

  • More indepth engine mechanics (see other posts, changing oil, spark plugs, etc.)
  • Have 2 types of fuel, diesel and gasoline so that siphoning fuel for your specific vehicle is a bit more difficult.
  • More heavy-duty vehicles (Large Semi-trucks, Campers, Busses, Jeeps, Humvees)
  • Trailers (Tanker trailers and Dryvan trailers are a must for hauling around large amounts of stuff across the map, and every zombie in the area will know when you do so ;))
  • Less interchangable parts (Have body/mechanical parts only be interchangeable by cars of the same model, e.g. the old sedan shares parts with the station wagon, the van with the passenger van)
  • Different icons for vehicle keys, perhaps brand specific (and names for the vehicles would be nice, so that i can keep my keys organized, "Car Key - Red Sedan" isn't specific enough when you're managing a large fleet for a group of survivors.)

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8 minutes ago, Rogers said:

I am on windows. At first I had necroforge on but I thought it could be causing the problem, so I deactivated it and the error still happens. But to be honest sometimes I don't even need to hit anything, it just happens out of the blue. everything goes black except for the UI, only reloading fixes it, but my character comes out of the car exhausted and never recovers. I will try to make a video tomorrow to show how it is.


What are your PC's specs? Anything like mine (Above somewhere)? Maybe it's some weird hardware issue since it seems there's very, very few people getting it.

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4 minutes ago, Svarog said:


What are your PC's specs? Anything like mine (Above somewhere)? Maybe it's some weird hardware issue since it seems there's very, very few people getting it.

A few have posted the same NullPointerException issue you had on Reddit and Steam, at least. It all seems to be the same bug, rather you collide  with an object or it just happens spontaneously.

 

There's also an OOM on Mac systems, because the game's somehow using the entire 768m it's given by default, that may be reported as the same issue.

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7 hours ago, Svarog said:


What are your PC's specs? Anything like mine (Above somewhere)? Maybe it's some weird hardware issue since it seems there's very, very few people getting it.

mine is pretty weak

 

Intel Pentium Dual E2180 2.00GHz

NVIDIA GeForce 210 1.00GB

2GB DDR3 Ram

Windows 7

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2 minutes ago, Rogers said:

mine is pretty weak

 

Intel Pentium Dual E2180 2.00GHz

NVIDIA GeForce 210 1.00GB

2GB DDR3 Ram

Windows 7


Only thing in Common is Win 7. It's one bitch of a glitch.

I do have Service Pack 1 for windows 7.

Note: Sometimes PZBullet crashes the game for me. I'll try to screencap the console next time it happens because it doesn't save, it's a full java crash that doesn't go into console. Related? Anyone getting a complete crash where PZBullet appears in the console?

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