Build 34 Discussion

[vanorfeadiel]

Not Sure what the FoodType = field is going to be used for but it is only in the Food Items in the NewItems file and not in the Items file.

 

MushroomGeneric3 and 5 in NewItems:

 

Should 

EvolvedRecipe = Stir fry:3;Stew:4;Pie:4;Soup:4;Sandwich:4;Salad:4;Roasted Vegetables:4;Rice 4;Pasta 4,

 

Be

EvolvedRecipe = Stir fry:4;Stew:4;Pie:4;Soup:4;Sandwich:4;Salad:4;Roasted Vegetables:4;Rice 4;Pasta 4, ???

 

All other mushrooms have the same values across the board:

EvolvedRecipe = Stir fry:3;Stew:3;Pie:3;Soup:3;Sandwich:3;Salad:3;Roasted Vegetables:3;Rice 3;Pasta 3,

[makkenhoff]

I was excited to give this a try. Wow, rough start for me, *edit* should note, this was survival mode *end edit*. Got everything I could have needed for my woods survivalist. Got scratched /w bleeding, led to infection, and I couldn't keep myself "fed". I had two full steaks and a full porkchop, and a few odd vegetables, I even got desperate enough to eat a mayo jar for 3k calories; and I still died within 4 days. From the sound of it, trying to survive in the woods was a no-go anyhow. 

 

 

I think blood sugar testing might be a realistic means of keeping track of glucose levels (carbs inject a lot faster into the system, while fats are slower and last longer), and testing equipment is reasonably accessible. This could include a diabetic trait as well, which would be something that the player would need to track medically speaking in order to prevent death, as even non-diabetics can suffer from hypoglycemia. 

 

Additional Details:

 

I put rice into a cooking pot, uncooked I ate it, and I was so hungry that I apparently ate the cooking pot as well as the uncooked rice and water. Quite amusing.

 

I think part of the reason I personally, am having so much trouble with survival mode, is that healing is tied to the fed moodlet. I think for balance reasons that is going to have to be split, because your body might have the calories to "self mend" but because you don't have the "fed" moodlet you actually will not heal. This has caused me to die a few times now, small injuries like a scratch that bleeds, never mind lodged glass shards and/or lacerations requiring suturing. I had 3000+ calories, but not "fed". 

[LeetgamerBoi]

Is this public build ever gonna be retracted or is it gonna just keep gaining momentum until the full release of the update?

I don't wanna invest into a save just to have it taken away XD

Additionally, do we actually have meters or is this just some twisted guessing game of "Guess what kind of thing you need, or die!"

And why is everyone talking about the nutritional value of earthworms?

[RobertJohnson]

Even if it's gone after a while your save will be ok don't worry

[makkenhoff]

Is this public build ever gonna be retracted or is it gonna just keep gaining momentum until the full release of the update?

I don't wanna invest into a save just to have it taken away XD

Additionally, do we actually have meters or is this just some twisted guessing game of "Guess what kind of thing you need, or die!"

And why is everyone talking about the nutritional value of earthworms?

 

Everyone isn't talking earthworms, but what we are doing is trying to help hash out proper nutrient information for this system. At least most of us are excited to have a little more depth when it comes to the hunger. 

[Akiruu]

Also ice cream doesn't spoil in 6 mo after

[RobertJohnson]

Hey guys, now the system looks less buggy (still have some stuff to fix tomorrow) I'm thinking about doing a version without the numbers in character screen, to see how it goes... I may just let the weight to see if you gain or loose some...

 

But just to see how it goes without having to micromanage it but doing it with the "feeling"

 

Thoughts?

[vanorfeadiel]

I think they are both valuable.

 

Players can play by using calories only, or hunger only, or both and report on how they played.

 

The key point is that they tell you how they are behaving to make the stats more useful.

 

Of course you could always release one build without that information to see how it feels.

[RobertJohnson]

What's about the "can't eat while well fed" does that mess with your diet?

 

Not sure if people are having trouble with that or not.. I really want to keep this because of realism or simply way too easy to gainw eighht without that..

 

I've seen people reaching 100kg quite easily, is this too fast? Do you do it on purpose to test? (feel like when eating normally, meat, vegetables some junk food.. you stay around 80kg which is perfect)

[vanorfeadiel]

The system needs to provide sufficient feedback so the players know to adapt before dying.

 

It will be especially harder to some players that had playstyle that was working pre-Nutrition, that might not work post nutrition.

 

It needs to work with the following playstyle (i.e. not that the playstyle still works but enough warning and sign to tell the players to adapt before they die)

 

Speed Monkey: Fitness Trainer, Athletic, Runner, Adrenaline Junies + All Panic Traits (a combination of these).  Can create characters that could run pretty much all the time in Pre-Nutrition.   Would likely die quickly after Nutrition (didn't have a chance to test much this one).

 

Minimal Eater: Preserving foor to the Max.  LightEater, only eat 1/4 of food when peckish or hungry to minize food usage.

 

Woodland survivor: Using foraging, trapping and farming only.

 

The above playstyke worked before but at least the Speed Monkey is up for a rude awakening, which is OK, but there need to be sufficient warning so that the player doesn't just end up quickly starving and dying.

 

The Minimal Eater was problemtic when the nutrition information wasn't carried over properly but is likely OK now.

 

Woodland survivor: Getting better with inclusion of calories to items that were missing some.  Mushrooms still need to be increased (4 is not enough).

 

When you get feedback on stats it would probably be good if people provided you a short explanation of the playstyle they did.  

Specifically:

1-What was the type of activities they were doing (you have some of that information from the stats)

2-At what point where they eating (By nutrition level, hunger moodlet, specific time of day, or has soon has they had food and could).

3-How much food where they eating when they where eating.

 

Finally you also need to account for extreme circumstances, even if not wise gameplay wise of the player that would be eating all the time, all the food as soon as he as some to see what the result of that would be.

[Moose65]

What's about the "can't eat while well fed" does that mess with your diet?

 

Not sure if people are having trouble with that or not.. I really want to keep this because of realism or simply way too easy to gainw eighht without that..

 

I've seen people reaching 100kg quite easily, is this too fast? Do you do it on purpose to test? (feel like when eating normally, meat, vegetables some junk food.. you stay around 80kg which is perfect)

 

I know for sure there was an issue with berries and "can't eat while well fed". You literally find more berries than you can eat. I think since the hunger reduction was buffed, you should lower the amount found perhaps (but please......if you do that buff XP gains to compensate, leveling foraging is already ridiculously hard even for someone who specializes in it).

 

I know the nutrition information is disabled right now, but I was getting a net loss in calories for eating berries because of the Well Fed change. Players tend to eat foods that will rot almost immediately, saving foods that don't expire. Berries really mess with this now in the current situation, because I couldn't eat all the ones I was finding because of the Well Fed change, I actually had fish that was rotting because of it since berries were keeping me full while starving me at the same time of calories.

 

It definitely needs some tweaks.

[Zorak]

its so cool that we have frezzers !

btw if we can now chill and frezze stuff how about making a hot food with some happyness bonus. once you cook something it stays hot for some time. Cold meat and soup dosnt taste as good as hot one.

[Barghaest]

Didn't want to derail the RELEASED: Build 34.4 thread so I'll reply here (also, seems like I had to create a new account, not sure if my old one poofed due to inactivity or I missed a forum change and never re-registered):

 

RobertJohnson, on 11 Feb 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

 "I'm balancing it again to see how it goes, but bear in mind I can't just make gaining weight slower 'cause then skinny people will have a hard time."

 

Well, they should... you don't bulk up quickly just by eating - for that, you'd need something like steroids.

 

On that note, adding in diet pills and steroids might be a good idea to accelerate weight gain/loss (or reduce loss/gain).

 

Also like to put in my vote for starvation being tied to calories instead of an abstract "Hunger" value... since calories ARE the bodies fuel.

[EnigmaGrey]

Hunger is a representation of how your character feels, not your phsyical state.

[Barghaest]

Yes, I understand this... some things can make you feel full even when not providing necessary nourishment and feel hungry even when providing plenty of calories, but isn't the negative effects of hunger (lower capacity, slower healing and eventual death) still tied to the hunger stat/moodlets and not calories (at least it appears that way on the tooltips for the moodlets)?

[Moose65]

Some more feedback after the recent changes......

 

You no longer gather more berries than you can possibly eat in a day now. This is good, but its still annoying dealing with the well fed moodle, when your simply wanting to eat all your perishable berries. Perhaps a recipe (besides cake) to do something with berries in bulk? Jam seems like a good idea. Also, mushrooms are starting to suffer from the same issue as berries, perhaps they could receive the same treatment, as in you find fewer of them, but a larger hunger bonus (to simulate eating multiple at a time instead of one).

 

Fishing.....ugh. I don't mind that you need to spend most of your day doing it, however, the right click queue spam does get tiring after awhile. Also, characters quickly get bored and depressed while fishing. This really needs to be addressed. If its meant to stay, then make a trait such as outdoors enthusiast that prevents or slows boredom while fishing.

 

Lastly, and this is somewhat related to fishing, but has more to do with cooking. Right now the most optimal thing to do with cooking is to make single serving fish fillet stir frys to remove the sadness and boredom penalty from fishing. Your forced to fillet your fish fillets to maximize your cooking XP, and with the current nutrition/cooking system, its pointless to cook your stir frys because you have no reason to make a full 6 servings of it due to single servings of fish fillets being the optimal way to remove sadness/boredom.

 

My suggestions to alleviate some of these issue? Make is so when you right click to fish, that the character repeats the action till you interrupt it. As far as cooking XP with fish fillets, remove gaining XP from filleting fish fillets, and if you want to compensate, increase the XP from filleting actual Fish.

 

Lastly, the cooking system needs revamped somehow. Its really annoying that if i want to maximize happiness gains, I'm forced to put only a single serving of fish into the stir fry, making it pointless to cook it. I'm not 100% sure how this could be fixed. Perhaps lower the base bonus, and instead of penalizing players for using the same ingredient, make it so that they receive a smaller bonus than if they were to mix it up a bit? With the current system, there is no reason for me to cook my meals when I have to make single servings of stir frys to maximize my happiness/boredom bonus.

[vanorfeadiel]

Actually with fresh fish and mushroom a bowl and a knife you can make salad to easily address your boredom and unhapinness (no cooking time only mixing). Quicker way to maintain hapiness and train cooking.

Of course if you have farms going as well then your salad can really boost your happinness (remember to limit the amount of same ingredient at once especially if your cooking is low).

[RobertJohnson]

For new version you won't have to always right click, once you start fishing you'll stop by mobing or doing something else, after one time fishing is finished, another one start (looking for new lure or rod)

 

I also reduced the boredom thing when fishing, should be less boring

 

Also nowbig fish will have better nutrition while small bit less, that should make good fishing man able to survive in the forest, gonna address mushrooms tomorrow and prob do a release

[Blasted_Taco]

What's about the "can't eat while well fed" does that mess with your diet?

 

Not sure if people are having trouble with that or not.. I really want to keep this because of realism or simply way too easy to gainw eighht without that..

 

I've seen people reaching 100kg quite easily, is this too fast? Do you do it on purpose to test? (feel like when eating normally, meat, vegetables some junk food.. you stay around 80kg which is perfect)

 

I havent been able to play anything at all these weeks but i have a question about the system.

 

Does the game gives you feedback (not numerical) of you doing something wrong?

 

Like if you are reaching 100kg in the span of 1 month per say, there could be a moodle to tell you that you are reaching overweight, maybe "Your clothes are getting more tight" and then reach the point of having the trait of Overweight.

 

Just like give the player some feedback before he reaches the point of fucking up and having the negative trait or lower stamina.

[Moose65]

For new version you won't have to always right click, once you start fishing you'll stop by mobing or doing something else, after one time fishing is finished, another one start (looking for new lure or rod)

 

I also reduced the boredom thing when fishing, should be less boring

 

Also nowbig fish will have better nutrition while small bit less, that should make good fishing man able to survive in the forest, gonna address mushrooms tomorrow and prob do a release

 

Thanks RJ, those two things are a big QoL change. I know its probably not the focus now, but the cooking issues are bogging down gameplay when you have to do those things to maximize cooking XP and for removing depression. There is no incentive to make large dishes when you have limited ingredients, so you have even less incentive to cook your meals. Also, the filleting of fillets to maximize XP is annoying, I know it was added in to address Big Pikes, but right now if you don't cut up your fish fillets into tiny tiny tiny fillets, your wasting XP potential :/

[Moose65]

Another thing I just realized......Refrigerators have become ridiculous storage units. You can haul mini-fridges around to essentially store 100 units for 1 tile space, that would take 2 crates to equal. You may want to tone it down a bit, perhaps make fridges hold 40/10?

[Magic Mark]

3 things for me right now:

 

Mac and Cheese should be made using a bowl of water and 20 of the mac, then cooked for a proper happiness bonus.

 

Sunflower seeds could be included in the evolved recipes, perhaps for roasted vegetables.

 

I know I said this in another thread, but for the sake of making sense balancewise the big commercial fridges in restaurants should have a freezer ability just so they aren't entirely inferior to common home fridges.

[EnigmaGrey]

For new version you won't have to always right click, once you start fishing you'll stop by mobing or doing something else, after one time fishing is finished, another one start (looking for new lure or rod)

 

I also reduced the boredom thing when fishing, should be less boring

Pretty much what I've hoped for since its inclusion.

[Moose65]

3 things for me right now:

 

Mac and Cheese should be made using a bowl of water and 20 of the mac, then cooked for a proper happiness bonus.

 

Sunflower seeds could be included in the evolved recipes, perhaps for roasted vegetables.

 

I know I said this in another thread, but for the sake of making sense balancewise the big commercial fridges in restaurants should have a freezer ability just so they aren't entirely inferior to common home fridges.

 

Instead of giving them a freezer, perhaps a better balance would be to increase their capacity to something like 80 perhaps?

 

With the change to mini-fridges, their now useful, since they don't require electrical skill to move, you can at least have a small freezer, while electricians can have access to the larger ones. I think its a nice balance, and perhaps simply increasing capacity would be enough to give them a solid use game-play wise.

[Blake81]

I'll just leave this here....

 

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/18229-food-build-suggestions/