Easily Digestible List of Trait Balance Issues
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Imo the issue with Hearty Appetite isn't the trait but the hunger system itself that is too easy -because immediate penalty/bonus instead of long term effects- and have too little impact. But that's off-topic.

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High Thirst & Hearty Appetite - free points, it's still not a big problem to survive with 8 months after apocalypse settings in Muldraugh. The need of more food gives you a slighty tougher start though. Thirst is never a problem, there is enough water in the pipes left to supply you for at least for a year.

Prone to Illness - free points, avoiding a cold is quite easy and it heals quite fast. You are able to do other stuff (carpentry, foraging) while having a cold and just have to stay away from the hordes.

Sleepy Head - free points, it's even a benefit, cause you are more often able to sleep for 1 hour instead of resting. A usefull thing for traveling far distances with a tent.

Hemophobic - free points, especially in late game (SP) panic is not a real problem and you usally are in a safe place if you need to bandage yourself.

Weak Stomach - free points, never had the need to eat rotten food (even not with extremly rare loot)

Fast Learner - very OP should be more expensive

 

In general, positive traits should require more points and negative traits should provide less to get to a better balancing.
 

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Prone to Illness - free points, avoiding a cold is quite easy and it heals quite fast. You are able to do other stuff (carpentry, foraging) while having a cold and just have to stay away from the hordes.

 

 

I thought that too at one time, taking it with outdoorsmen thinking it was 100% free points, but apparently it increases your chance for zombie infection. Another reason why we need to know specifics on traits.

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Also, guys, if you think a consensus has been reached, flag the point either by PMing me, or reporting a post so a mod can add it to the final list. Make sure to only do that once something is solid though! :)

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I really don't know how your gonna keep people from fishing unless you add in River Zombies :D

 

They already have find the way to keep people away from fishing / foraging : no fish / no berries in winter  :-D

 

But I agree the hunger/thirst system may needs to be roworked (but we have to keep in mind you can survive 3+ days without eating IRL).

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Think its alot more than 3 days. But I imagine there are lots of different things like the weather that make a big difference. I guess after 3 days it would be very hard to do any survival tasks?

You probably wouldn't starve to death but something else would get you???

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I really don't know how your gonna keep people from fishing unless you add in River Zombies :D

 

They already have find the way to keep people away from fishing / foraging : no fish / no berries in winter  :-D

 

But I agree the hunger/thirst system may needs to be roworked (but we have to keep in mind you can survive 3+ days without eating IRL).

 

 

Fishing is still possible during the winter. Foraging(food loot table) is disabled though. Although I still vote for River zombies to discourage fishing :D Imagine them walking out of the water or floating by lol.

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Where did Light Drinker go? Especially since being drunk has been added back to the game. It should give +1 point since it isn't really game breaking.

Removed until it has an actual effect.

 

 

Doesn't it have an effect? Since the CDDA challenge says that you woke up drunk in the shower.

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Where did Light Drinker go? Especially since being drunk has been added back to the game. It should give +1 point since it isn't really game breaking.

Removed until it has an actual effect.

 

 

Doesn't it have an effect? Since the CDDA challenge says that you woke up drunk in the shower.

 

Yes, it doesn't.

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Posting with the template to evaluate the traits better

 

Deaf - Personally haven't played with it (and probably never will). For those brave enough I think the +12 is fair.

Obese - Another one I won't touch. +10 is probably fair.

Weak - Another one I won't touch. +10 is probably fair.

Illiterate - Skills are already bad enough to grind, so at +8 its probably fair. Personally won't ever use.

Feeble - Personally won't ever use this. +6 is probably fair.

High Thirst - Free points. Could easily be lowered to +2 to force us to take real draw backs.

Overweight - Again, death sentence trait, won't ever use. +6 is probably fair.

Restless Sleeper - Used to take this as free points, but you end up spending too much of the day resting. +6 is probably fair.

Slow Healer - Tried it out thinking it was free points, ends up being pretty awful, especially if you get an infection. +6 is probably fair, but its far worse in multiplayer than single player.

Slow Learner - Skill grinding is already awful enough, especially for professions without skill books (*cough first aid and foraging cough*). Honestly, I would put this on par with illiterate and boost to +8, although even then I would never take it.

Thin-skinned - Death sentence trait (and honestly not described well, it leads to more scratches and bites, which you could argue it leads to higher infection indirectly, but I don't think it raises infection like prone to illness does. Would never take this, and at +6 its probably too low.

Asthmatic - Would never take this, but at +5 its probably ok, could easily bump to +6.

Agoraphobic - Great for adrenaline junkie builds. +4 is perfectly fine.

Claustrophobic - Great for adrenaline junkie builds. +4 is perfectly fine.

Conspicious - Free points. Could easily be lowered to +2 to make you take real drawbacks.

Disorganized - Free points. Could easily be lowered to +2 to make you take real drawbacks.

Hearty Appetite - Free points. Could easily be lowered to +2 to make you take real drawbacks.

Pacifist - Personally haven't tried this, so I can't properly evaluate it. Probably will never take it since melee is so important.

Prone to Illness - Until the developers clarify this, we can't properly evaluate it. Has it been updated to affect the new medical system's "infection"? What exact % increase does this boost infection from scratches? Does it even affect colds? With all this in mind, +4 is probably too low.

Sleepy Head - Free points, but I think +4 is fair. Definitely don't take this AND restless sleeper, as you'll literally spend all day sleeping. +4 is fair for trading time in game.

Unlucky - Until the developers clarify this, we can't properly evaluate it, as we don't know everything it affects, as well as the rates.

Hemophobic - Free points. Could honestly use a nerf to +2. Also, its abusive in the fact that you can take it with both the phobias for 100% free points in an adrenaline junkie build.

Weak Stomach - Free points. Could honestly use a nerf to +2.

All Thumbs - Free points for those who are patient.........but its really too frustrating and bogs down gameplay.

Clumsy - Free points.

Cowardly - Free points. Abusive in junkie builds since you can take it with both phobias for 100% free points.

Hard of Hearing - I used to consider this free points.....but it has at least led to 1 death because of the reduced perception radius and a zombie sneaking up from behind.

Hypochondriac - Not worth the risk for only +2 points, since this is the ONLY trait that can kill you by itself. Consider raising to +4 or +6, but even then I would never take it.

Short Sighted - Free points.

Slow Reader - Free points in single player.


Cat's Eyes - Vision at night isn't a problem in the game currently. Useless IMO until it is.

Dextrous - QoL trait. Personally don't like it or All Thumbs even existing.

 

Stout - Great trait.

Strong - Great trait.

Fast Reader - Another QoL trait, and 100% useless in single player. Personally don't like it or slow reader existing.

Iron Gut - Useless. Needs to be buffed to -2.

Angler - Fine as is, fits the format of single skill being -4, two skills being - 6, and three being -8.

Baseball Player - Needs clarification from the developer. If it does indeed grant faster bat swings, then it might be over-budgeted at -4, unless you intend to later give the other skill traits some other perk as well besides flat skill points.

Brave - Never felt a need to use this, as I still feel that even with the buff to panic its not dangerous enough to need this trait. Could see this dropping to -2.

First Aider - Fine as is.

Gardener - Fine as is.

Graceful - Personally I don't have problems sneaking even with clumsy, and would never spend points on this skill anyways. Could probably drop to -2.

Inconspicious - Same thing as Graceful, could use being dropped to -2 until zombie AI is improved, as its more useful for me to be spotted to thin out herds one by one.

Gymnast - Seems like overlap with graceful, and personally I don't even mind the fact that it breaks the skill rule and is valued at -5. Personally I think it could be dropped to even -2 or -3, as I would still not even take it at those values, especially with the current zombie grouping AI.

Brawler - Fine as is.

Eagle Eyed - Personally I don't see a use for this, as my vision is fine even with short sighted. Could use a buff to -4 or even lower.

Fast Healer - Perhaps a bit too high, especially for single player. While I found slow healer to be unplayable, I haven't felt the need for fast healer.

Fit - Great trait.

Former Scout - Fine as is.

Hiker - Fine as is.

Keen Hearing - Can never seem to fit this into builds, but I can see its use. Could maybe use a small buff to make it a more attractive choice.

Adrenaline Junkie - Right now for adrenaline junkie abuse builds, you get a FREE +5 points since the other panic traits are not made exclusive when you select both phobias.

Handy - Fine as is, but we really need a carpentry option that isn't -8. Also, wheres the cooking option that isn't tied to a profession?

Hunter - Fine as is.

Athletic - Great trait.

 

Thick Skin - Great trait.

 

Resilient - Until the developers clarify this, we can't properly evaluate it. Has it been updated to affect the new medical system's "infection"? What exact % increase does this lower infection from scratches and bites? Does it even affect colds? With all this in mind, -4 is probably too low.

 

Runner - Fine as is.

 

Self Defense Class - Fine as is.

 

Fast Learner - Could be argued that -6 is too low, but personally, this is a huge QoL trait, and wouldn't mind if it and slow learner didn't exist and Fast Learner was made base-line.

 

Organized - To me, its a simple QoL trait, as long as your not grabbing EVERYTHING, I've had no issue with disorganized and getting essential loot. Storage in your base is basically infinite as you can dump stuff on the floor. Could see this being buffed to -4.

 

Wakeful - Fine as it is.

 

Outdoorsmen - Best trait in the game, and is seriously under-budgeted at -2. Could see this going to -4 or even -6.

 

Low Thirst - With how easy water is to get, this should be -2.

 

Light Eater - Keep in mind, this is being evaluated with the CURRENT food system in mind, and at -6 this is way too high. Could easily see this being -2 or -4, but I think a better solution is to fix the food system so that this is actually useful.

 

Lucky - Until the developers clarify this, we can't properly evaluate it, as we don't know everything it affects, as well as the rates.

 

Desensitized - Seems to cost about -8 for the veteran. Appropriate.

 

Axe Man - Doesn't seem to be budgeted at all into the lumberjack. Perhaps it should be.

 

Night Owl - This one DOES seem to be budgeted into the Security Guard, and it doesn't even work. If it did, it overlaps with wakeful. Should be reworked or removed.

 

I think that covers every trait.

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Restless Sleeper + Sleepy Head  

you can survive twice as long and sleep all day or/and at any time, I suggest make them exclusives so you can't take them both at the same time 

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With stout/strong I feel like the carry weight and knock back need to be to be separated into different traits. Carry weight and knock back are both really important skills. It would be nice to be able to take one or the other. I know people who are really strong (can lift heavy weights) but are useless at carrying over distance. Also technique and body weight can be used to create knock back. have you ever been push by someone who is obese! Just seems silly to tie up too of the best skills???

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I really don't see what the problem with All Thumbs is. I play on a multiplayer survival server as the team's sneaky city-looting rogue, and I get by just fine with it.

 

Its a little annoying, but you can't grab and go in the presence of zombies whether you have it or not. If a zombie or three get close, you back off and stomp them, or lead them out of the building, circle the place, and head back inside. And if you're concerned about switching weapons or eating/drinking/whatever, you can pack items and walk at the same time, so all it does is interfere with your swinging.

 

I would like to see a comparison between the effects of Graceful, Gymnast, and Inconspicuous, however. I went with Inconspicuous with my current build, but I have no idea if its better than the other two for my sneaky setup, about equal, or what. I imagine that's the intention, but I'm still curious.

 

Also: Deaf is pretty bad on Single Player, but quite survivable on MP if you work with a team. Not being able to hear helicopters hurts a lot, however.

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Handy - Fine as is, but we really need a carpentry option that isn't -8. Also, wheres the cooking option that isn't tied to a profession?

 

Also, there is no trait that gives a bonus to blade weapons only. Just saying.

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Handy - Fine as is, but we really need a carpentry option that isn't -8. Also, wheres the cooking option that isn't tied to a profession?

 

Also, there is no trait that gives a bonus to blade weapons only. Just saying.

 

 

Yeah, but brawler isn't that bad at -6. You would have to pay -4 for blade alone.

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lucky - blatantly overpowered, hard to recall a lets play where they didnt take it. recommendation: dont try to rebalance or increase cost, just remove it from the game please. makes it way too easy. if unlucky does the exact opposite, it shouldnt exist either, not for only 4 points.

 

iron gut - could be overpowered depending on its effectiveness. if it means you can eat rotten food with little fear of repercussions, its definitely overpowered, since you can eat your rotten farm produce in the winter without having to preserve it.

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After some thought, I think the best solution for people getting free points with adrenaline rush panic builds would be to make agoraphobia and claustrophobia mutually exclusive of each other. You'll still get some basically free points, but not as many as before.

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After some thought, I think the best solution for people getting free points with adrenaline rush panic builds would be to make agoraphobia and claustrophobia mutually exclusive of each other. You'll still get some basically free points, but not as many as before.

what if taking the adrenaline rush trait turned the panic traits into positive ones that cost the player? like taking adrenaline rush would make claustrophobia -1 point and agoraphobia -2 or -3 points

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After some thought, I think the best solution for people getting free points with adrenaline rush panic builds would be to make agoraphobia and claustrophobia mutually exclusive of each other. You'll still get some basically free points, but not as many as before.

what if taking the adrenaline rush trait turned the panic traits into positive ones that cost the player? like taking adrenaline rush would make claustrophobia -1 point and agoraphobia -2 or -3 points

 

That would probably take quite a bit of coding.........I think its probably better off making one of the two phobias exclusive so that they don't get even more extra free points, since hemophobia + cowardly already equal free points with one or both phobias.

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That would probably take quite a bit of coding.........I think its probably better off making one of the two phobias exclusive so that they don't get even more extra free points, since hemophobia + cowardly already equal free points with one or both phobias.

 

 

but why allow the player to have any "free points" at all? the only way the player should be allowed "free points" is by taking unemployed (or an inexpensive occupation anyway). 

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Illiterate should drop from your choices when select certain professions. Police officer, fireman, park ranger. I'm not to sure you would get a job if you were unable to read.

outdoors man is way OP and I would suggest hunter should be made into a profession including outdoors man trait. Park ranger should include outdoors man again.

Hiker should be increased by +2 and have outdoors man added.

so the only way to get outdoors man

would be to either pick hunter (new profession) park ranger or hiker trait.

obese should gain cooking +1 and knock back equal to stout.

Weak should gain a bonus in sneak.

(Is it true you can loose and gain traits in the game as a player on our server states he gained stout and another lost obese while playing)

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I think that yeah we need something for blade only, like blade specialist or something, because most people prefer EITHER blade or blunt weapon. Other - some trait with carpentry as the alternative is either profession with it or a whooping 8 point with just 1 carpentry and somothing else in return. +1 carpentry for 4 skill points is quite fair, because in ssp this is vital and in smp this is very valuable to be able quickly to lvlup carpentry.

Running is ungodly hard to level up unless you pay lots of points for a profession with running or a 4 points for just single running point. -4 skill points is ok for smth like likefooted, but running should be -3 points max. Fit is -6 points and offers much, much more than -4 running.

 

Same with gardening and fishing, I think that -4 points makes this choice useless, 4 points worth means 2 abilities with -2, for example. Just 1 point in fishing or farming for 4 skill points? Thats too much. Too much because most +4 negative traits are really severe and I dunno who would choose +1 farming or fishing for 4 points each, as this becomes very expensive and game-affecting to compensate. 

 

And I have started a topic with negative profession traits. I think its natural to add traits which define professions, which we are BAD with. 

And basically, gracefull and inconspicuous are lightfooted and sneaking *trollface* I think they should be removed just in favor of single traits +1 sneaking +1 lightfooted for -3 points

 

Outdoorsman is a trait worth 4-5 points, really. it's not overpowered itself, but it helps to not care about shelter before you find or build one, but lategame its value decreases.

 

Pacifist should be like +8, really. 

 

that thing with slow container transfer should be like +6 for what it does IMO

 

 

Inside-outside panicking should be worth +1- +2 points more

 

Easier food poisoning should give 1 point less

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Off topic.

Moose65 and spikeyhat09 , you games-challenge junkies, ruining this game with your "rebalance" opinions. :D This game can be challenge enough, if you simply set sandbox zombie lore to superzombies(superhuman, sprinters, tough, bloodhound, pinpoint and eagle eye) along with insane zombie counts and i guarantee you that even the best players will not live for long. Just don't take away free points from negative traits, this game have to be newbie friendly. No offense guys.

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 No offense guys.

 

 

wxtirKR.pngModerator Warning

Protip, saying No offence does not defuse your post. Remember to Be Lovely please :)

 

If you think you need to say 'no offence', or some vein of it, rewrite your post till you don't need to. You can say what you mean without causing offence.

...

 

And on another tack, is there any consensus here? We'd like to get some of this distilled :)

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