marine6889 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Just A website that is trying to "fight back" against the NSA by helping people get into contact with their legislators. I don't know how effective it will be, however it is something and atleast people are trying to to something about a cause they believe in. Here is the website in case any of you are interested. https://thedaywefightback.org/ blindcoder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silents429 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Sigh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 But . . . but . . . then they'll know who their dissenters are!And they'll get you. Footmuffin, PintLasher and Sieben 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marinus Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I don't worry about the NSA, because I've nothing to hide. Why wait if you can light the fuse of this topic right away silents429 and Rathlord 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepbro Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I really find it funny how people are taking the Snowden revelations. You do understand right that all these Spy programs that Snowden has revealed is the equivalent of a giant fishing boat trawling the sea of intrigue and just scooping up every fish and only keeping the ones that are of interest. 30 years ago it was far more invasive with people actively being followed, constantly being questioned and put on lists that restricted their very rights. These days its far more gentlemanly as they just hack your phone and record everything you say and do. Im not saying that its right - but come on - its bloody spying. The whole thing is supposed to be about mistrust, deceit, betrayal and blackmail. Just let the spy agencies do their thing. And try not to type Al-Qaeda whilst online. **shit** AirborneM4, silents429, LeoIvanov and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirrus Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 No, the problem is that they can tell who you talk to, when, and about what. Like, if you have an affair, they know it. If you've a relationship, they know it. And all it takes is a little slip into a dictatorship government for that to become used for evil. warp, Kitt Frostpaws, PintLasher and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connall Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I appreciate what they are doing and I support them, but I'm on the firm belief that phone calls probably do very little and are just chalked up as "another call" I hope this stuff gets opposed for sure, but I don't believe this is the right way to go about it. I don't know, I guess time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warp Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 What Kirrus said. Sure, NSA seems friendly. It's the American government, right? They are friendly.. aren't they?60 years ago, this government thought that people who had different amounts of melanin in their bodies shouldn't ride the bus together.40 years ago, they thought that two consenting adults shouldn't be allowed to touch each other if they had matching chromosomes.They still feel it's great to kill, and eat, nine billion animals each year. Animals who have the same kind of intelligence as human toddlers. For no other reason than that the crowd with the most money says so(!).If you have money, you are automagically just and fair, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepbro Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 No, the problem is that they can tell who you talk to, when, and about what. Like, if you have an affair, they know it. If you've a relationship, they know it. And all it takes is a little slip into a dictatorship government for that to become used for evil. Again true - but do they ACTUALLY know it - its just sitting on a computer archive. Ok so say you are having an affair. The only time they are REALLY going to be interested is when some plonk at GCHQ or the NSA types "married members of Al-Qaeda" or something similar and the woman you are having an affair is in fact Natalya Simonava ex KGB Assassin and Master Spy. Yes theoretically they know about it but there's only so much trawling through reams and reams and reams of crap that an agent can do. They're just going to run it through some programs and wait for something to go bing. I have met people in my former line of work (Location Scout) who were people who were on government payrolls. These guys/gals tend to be highly focused and highly intelligent people recruited usually from Universities and who are adaptive and normally socially quite active. So they tend to have an open mind. They really arent the types to start waterboarding people for downloading illegal files as they focus on threats to National Security (unless you are downloading some sort of master encryption spy thing in which case they are). As for Dictatorships using them for evil - thats very easily solved. Simply vote against them and convince as many people as possible not to vote for dictatorships. + it would take more than a little slip really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirrus Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 No, the problem is that they can tell who you talk to, when, and about what. Like, if you have an affair, they know it. If you've a relationship, they know it. And all it takes is a little slip into a dictatorship government for that to become used for evil. Again true - but do they ACTUALLY know it - its just sitting on a computer archive. Ok so say you are having an affair. The only time they are REALLY going to be interested is when some plonk at GCHQ or the NSA types "married members of Al-Qaeda" or something similar and the woman you are having an affair is in fact Natalya Simonava ex KGB Assassin and Master Spy. Yes theoretically they know about it but there's only so much trawling through reams and reams and reams of crap that an agent can do. They're just going to run it through some programs and wait for something to go bing. I have met people in my former line of work (Location Scout) who were people who were on government payrolls. These guys/gals tend to be highly focused and highly intelligent people recruited usually from Universities and who are adaptive and normally socially quite active. So they tend to have an open mind. They really arent the types to start waterboarding people for downloading illegal files as they focus on threats to National Security (unless you are downloading some sort of master encryption spy thing in which case they are). As for Dictatorships using them for evil - thats very easily solved. Simply vote against them and convince as many people as possible not to vote for dictatorships. + it would take more than a little slip really. Yes, because our current democracies are working so well. We, right now in Britain, have basically a 2-party-state, whereby each party is putting up no alternatives. Thanks to the way our voting system works, no other party has a chance in hell of getting any power, ever. There's a massive amount of voter disillusionment, and if the next general election doesn't see the lowest turnout of recent history, I'll eat my hat. Personally, I'm represented by an MP of a party I hate, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. At all. If I tried to run, no-one would vote for me, and the only alternatives are the betraying lib-dems, and a party whose leader is weak, and whose policies are basically the same leanings as my mp's. Both Conservatives and labour's policies are very, very close. Slowly, power is being sneaked away up the chain, if you look at some of the bills passed. More of the security bills of late have been taking protections against government abuse away as well. It boils down to, who's watching the watchmen? In a good democracy, the police watch (limited) the people. The government watches the police (limited). The people watch the government. In our system, the people are no-longer able to effect useful change on the government, AND the security agencies are saying "we should not be watched by anyone", and being given carte blanch to do whatever the hell they want. This is a recipe for disaster. Rathlord and Kitt Frostpaws 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silents429 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't know if people are seeing the NSA as like a group of dudes laughing there ass off from something they read off of a random persons text message, but they screen out keywords through millions of devices at a time.And yes, Kir it could be used for bad in people of higher up's who have affairs, But if that got presented as evidence (Which they would need in order to be believed) They would be throwing any cover that they aren't abusing the spying for something so stupid, they would effectevly be ratting themselves out.Personally. And while Ill just get told to "Gtfo then"I wish this NSA crap didn't come to these forums since I already have to see it everywhere else I look and its just getting annoying to deal with.I say go ahead NSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warp Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I say go ahead NSA. Y'know. This is just the beginning. If we let them proceed, it's going to get a lot worse.Especially since we will only spend more and more time on the web.What is going to stop them from stealing and/or censoring ideas that they like or dislike?It could get out of hand pretty quickly, and we don't know who will be in power in 5 or 10 years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCenturion Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well, at least they can't touch me in Australi-- /silence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitt Frostpaws Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I say go ahead NSA. Y'know. This is just the beginning. If we let them proceed, it's going to get a lot worse.Especially since we will only spend more and more time on the web.What is going to stop them from stealing and/or censoring ideas that they like or dislike?It could get out of hand pretty quickly, and we don't know who will be in power in 5 or 10 years.. Do you like tinfoil hats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepbro Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yes, because our current democracies are working so well. We, right now in Britain, have basically a 2-party-state, whereby each party is putting up no alternatives. Thanks to the way our voting system works, no other party has a chance in hell of getting any power, ever. There's a massive amount of voter disillusionment, and if the next general election doesn't see the lowest turnout of recent history, I'll eat my hat.Personally, I'm represented by an MP of a party I hate, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. At all. If I tried to run, no-one would vote for me, and the only alternatives are the betraying lib-dems, and a party whose leader is weak, and whose policies are basically the same leanings as my mp's. Both Conservatives and labour's policies are very, very close.Slowly, power is being sneaked away up the chain, if you look at some of the bills passed. More of the security bills of late have been taking protections against government abuse away as well.It boils down to, who's watching the watchmen? In a good democracy, the police watch (limited) the people. The government watches the police (limited). The people watch the government. In our system, the people are no-longer able to effect useful change on the government, AND the security agencies are saying "we should not be watched by anyone", and being given carte blanch to do whatever the hell they want.This is a recipe for disaster. Hey I dont think the UK is working too badly. Yes things are slow but on the whole change happens. You can vote and if you dont like something you can organise and put substantial pressure on the party of your choice. The 2 Party system isn't that bad (not that we are one because last I looked there were something like 15 parties) and you forget that MPs vote on their parties issues. Tory backbenchers are more of a problem for Cameron than Milliband ever is. As for you being represented by a party you hate thats because the majority of the people in your area voted for him. Sorry that sucks but it was a majority verdict and you are on the wrong side. To me that sings of the strength of the system because it goes towards the greater good. Y'know. This is just the beginning. If we let them proceed, it's going to get a lot worse.Especially since we will only spend more and more time on the web.What is going to stop them from stealing and/or censoring ideas that they like or dislike?It could get out of hand pretty quickly, and we don't know who will be in power in 5 or 10 years.. Well Im not sure about how things are done in the quaint colonies but here in the UK all intelligence gathering gets done by professionals then goes through several panels each of which is formed by various people including legal advocates (who can and do arrest people) and elected officials from all parties. I believe that there is a National Security Council that scrutinizes all this and then a Intelligence committee that double-checks it. Of course it is done behind closed doors (as it is national security information vital to the state) but these checks are supposed to be politically bi-partisan and members are chosen between parties so as to give as much transparency as possible. Finally I do believe that records are unsealed after a number of years (I think its 25 currently) so people can check up and sue governments after the thing has happened (which has also happened). Also why would they want to edit things? Its hard enough just having the knowledge of whats going on without them having to physically change things and rewrite them. That's not a Spy's job. His job is Intelligence gathering. The people who change stuff are politicians who you can completely change. It just takes effort and getting out there and changing peoples minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viceroy Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think it is ludicrously totalitarian to record information internationally, I quite frankly find it offensive. It is a great way for a regime to suppress dissident elements. And signing that petition or logging onto that site with your ip is just another way for them to isolate the most vocal of dissident elements. I'll keep my name off of that list thank you very much, never liked america's globalisation policies one bit. Spying on ally nations is a shitty show of respect if I may say so myself. If they want to spy they can bloody-well keep it in america. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connall Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I think it is ludicrously totalitarian to record information internationally, I quite frankly find it offensive. It is a great way for a regime to suppress dissident elements. And signing that petition or logging onto that site with your ip is just another way for them to isolate the most vocal of dissident elements. I'll keep my name off of that list thank you very much, never liked america's globalisation policies one bit. Spying on ally nations is a shitty show of respect if I may say so myself. If they want to spy they can bloody-well keep it in america. One of the few posts in this thread I really agree with. I agree that they shouldn't be monitoring people or invading their privacy, and trying to defend the actions of these agencies of collecting mass amount of personal information from citizens that aren't even within the countries borders is disturbing. I don't think people in this thread should be defending, or rationalizing what these groups are doing, it's just wrong. It's disgusting what these groups do and think they can get away with. I do think that if just lie down and accept these sorts of actions, groups will continue to push the envelope on what they can do. When people wonder how certain countries got to the state they are in, it's not because the government went from 0 to 100, it was because it was a slow drip feed of changes that eventually took peoples liberties and stop them complaining. Frankly, I'm sick of American Politicians attitude that they are the worlds police, SOPA pissed me off to no end that America could bring down servers that didn't even reside in their own country. Whether you care or not that your own government is breaking the laws they are supposed to uphold fine, but surely you don't agree with the fact that one country is trying to turn itself into a world police force? warp and Viceroy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warp Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Do you like tinfoil hats? "When someone says you can't do something it is your job to do prove them wrong, your life is just that. Yours." ...w/e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warp Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well Im not sure about how things are done in the quaint colonies but here in the UK all intelligence gathering gets done by professionals then goes through several panels each of which is formed by various people including legal advocates (who can and do arrest people) and elected officials from all parties.Yes, the UK haven't gone megalomaniacal for a couple of hundred years. But the US seem to do it on a regular basis. That's what I'm afraid of. Not that it would be less scary if UK was meddling in my business, but atleast they are a unified front, not some shotty homebuilt contraption called a society, ruled by the one with the most money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewok Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I for one support our intelligence agencies and glorious leaders. I see the necessity of monitoring electronic communications for the greater good against the less desirable elements of our society. When the inevitable cracking down of dissidents begins, I want this post on record to demonstrate my support for the establishment.I for one am disgusted by the actions of our oppressive government and the encroaching attacks on our basic rights in the name of 'security'. We are systematically having our freedoms stripped away by a government who not only does not represent us, but seems to actively mistrust us and act against our best interests. When the inevitable revolution comes, I want this post on record to demonstrate my support for those fighting for out freedom.Delete as appropriate. warp, TheCenturion, uberevan and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Delete as appropriate.Compliance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepbro Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Not that it would be less scary if UK was meddling in my business, but atleast they are a unified front, not some shotty homebuilt contraption called a society, ruled by the one with the most money. Sorry to break this to you but actually we are the ones doing the spying on you not your government. Under an agreement made at the end of WW2 the US does not actively spy on its own citizens because the UK does it and then shares the information back. The US meanwhile spies on Europe, Australia and most of Russia whilst Australia does England and China. Thus everyone spies on everyone, shares the information and cannot be accused of spying on their own citizens. VamyreLord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirrus Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It's scary they have all your data. But as long as you're not emailing a dude called "terror ist" the message "ombbay ericanamay igspay", there's not really much to worry about. No collective of people can feasibly scour through that much data. Computers can. And, if you've ever contacted someone, who's ever contacted someone, who's ever contacted someone who has done something 'bad' (to be defined by the police/mi5/nsa/fbi/cia, not you), all of your computers will be hacked, your phone will be hacked, and they will start paying a hell of a lot of attention to you. Right. Now. And if they do this now, what will happen as computing power continues to improve? Hell, you just say the wrong word somewhere, ('word' defined by committee), they *automatically* hack your devices *right now*. And if that doesn't scare you, it bloody well should. warp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomwa Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I would call my home country a joke, but it's not in any way funny. Money owns the politics here, are politicians are nutjobs are president isn't even really chosen by us, and there are occassions when the government entirely ignores what's right. e.g. Bush v. Gore election and making him president even though he lost (Hey screw the constitution!). Our whole system is jacked, we have looney's like Palin in our government, with feminists who decide we cannot have a commision on boys and men even when discussions with the president were already set to take place. I'm not worried about oppression, I'm worried that our potential "President-to-be" screamed "Why does it matter?!", when confronted about her lies. They're not going to oppress us, they're going to run us into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silents429 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 And boom just like that a sour opinion arises towards the forums.Ill go to a public park, I am sure this crap will appear there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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