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lemmy101

Operation Fix Late Game By Killing You Before You Get There

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I like it, the only problem I see is that fishing is now way to go its too easy vs farming. And in MP its hard to keep those veges watered for 12-17 days now you will have to have a nice group or just leave it and start fishing.

Well maybe we can counter balance it to make the upkeep a little less difficult. But truth be told maintaining a farm with no mechanized machinery should be quite an upkeep really :)

Fishing too perhaps will need some tweaks.

 

If I can suggest something about food and eating.

IMO the farming time wasn’t that big deal. The problem was amount of food you get from it vs how long you can survive. You get about 8 vegetables from each field and each single tomato can keep you feed for a whole day (just eat ¼ whenever you see hungry moodle).

It’s also a reason why cooking isn’t so popular, there is just no need to waste time for that. Using rotten food is cool but in SP I have more food from farming than I need and in MP it’s almost impossible to farm (1h = 1 day, if you have break between sessions + night time you have about 12 – 17 days w/o taking care of farming).

 

As goes for farming I would put something like Drip irrigation farming mod into the game. And put some other thing to keep us busy with farming. That extra work would affect how many vegetables we will get and high lvl farmer will be more efficient with it. So instead like we have now with mainly watering plants where you get 0 or ~8 veges you will have 3-10 depends how much effort you will punt into keeping your farm in good shape.

 

For cooking I would make another stat like “food quality” the junk food will have – values and prepared meals with lots of ingredients will have +. The stat will inform you for how long you will have well fed buff and how big the buff will be. Eating junk food will give you debuff for strength and speed, it wont kill you, you wont starve but you will see a difference between eating crisps and apples  vs come cool meals prepared by high lvl cook. + balance the food so single apple or tomato wont keep us feed for a whole day

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Never found portioning necessary, personally: I just eat the whole piece of food and I don't see the moodle for the entire day.

Going through food at a more realistic amount would be a definite plus . . . not only would it encourage larger, long-term farming projects, but it'd give further incentive to get out of your safehouse and loot. Having larger plots also means there's less a chance the player will just wall it off.

The concept of a top chef being able to cleave pungent food into something edible never made sense to me, though. Sure, if it's freshly turned, it makes a sort of sense, but finding rotten food that's weeks\months old and is salvageable probably shouldn't be a thing.
 

Though I don't think the challenge should be around watering crops, Zorak (sorry if I misunderstood your point): from the small plots I've had (generally 20 x 30 spaces), they rarely need to be actively watered. So long as it isn't a blazing hot drought, rain and the moisture content does a good job. Instead, it should be controlling pests and prepping new farm land that takes the brunt of the task.

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Though I don't think the challenge should be around watering crops, Zorak (sorry if I misunderstood your point): from the small plots I've had (generally 20 x 30 spaces), they rarely need to be actively watered. So long as it isn't a blazing hot drought, rain and the moisture content does a good job. Instead, it should be controlling pests and prepping new farm land that takes the brunt of the task.

Well that part was about the MP experiance. If you log out for a day (~15h) in a 24/7 server the chances that youre crops will be watered is low (or im having a ultra bad luck) and if you want to farm from start to end its about 13 h of playing (b4 the nerf).

In short: In SP watering is easy and not a problem , in MP it makes farming almost imposible (from my experiance).

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Remember Bathroom Zombies and how every time you open the door to the bathroom there would be four of them in there... That was my First death in the Game..... bathroom Zombies.... and now its build 30 there rarely any zombies in the house at all its like it was Clean form the start XD I Love this Game i had it for more then a year now and now that the game will be harder "soon" its Like every thing i love in this game got A whole Lot more interesting.

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Never found portioning necessary, personally: I just eat the whole piece of food and I don't see the moodle for the entire day.

Going through food at a more realistic amount would be a definite plus . . . not only would it encourage larger, long-term farming projects, but it'd give further incentive to get out of your safehouse and loot. Having larger plots also means there's less a chance the player will just wall it off.

The concept of a top chef being able to cleave pungent food into something edible never made sense to me, though. Sure, if it's freshly turned, it makes a sort of sense, but finding rotten food that's weeks\months old and is salvageable probably shouldn't be a thing.

 

Though I don't think the challenge should be around watering crops, Zorak (sorry if I misunderstood your point): from the small plots I've had (generally 20 x 30 spaces), they rarely need to be actively watered. So long as it isn't a blazing hot drought, rain and the moisture content does a good job. Instead, it should be controlling pests and prepping new farm land that takes the brunt of the task.

 

This really bugs me now too, that the only way to preserve food is to reach level 4/5 cooking and gather up every rotten piece of food possible. If they want to keep this mechanic in, food needs to reach a state to where there is NOTHING salvageable from it, because lets face it, given enough time, its gonna turn into liquid sludge.

 

I know its been said time and time again, but canning would be more realistic and nice, and would actually reward you more for farming (since I assume more brutal growth times will be added). You would defiantly need to go out and find jars, as they would put an effective "cap" on how much you could preserve, allowing a small buffer of excess food, but at the same time, encouraging you to seek alternatives through foraging/fishing/trapping/scavenging.

 

As it is currently, you simply grow as much food as you can possibly plant and save all the rotten food to cook as needed. At least canning would put a cap on how much excess you could keep, as well as being far more realistic. Canning supplies are pretty common in stores and households here in Kentucky.

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Never found portioning necessary, personally: I just eat the whole piece of food and I don't see the moodle for the entire day.

Going through food at a more realistic amount would be a definite plus . . . not only would it encourage larger, long-term farming projects, but it'd give further incentive to get out of your safehouse and loot. Having larger plots also means there's less a chance the player will just wall it off.

The concept of a top chef being able to cleave pungent food into something edible never made sense to me, though. Sure, if it's freshly turned, it makes a sort of sense, but finding rotten food that's weeks\months old and is salvageable probably shouldn't be a thing.

 

Though I don't think the challenge should be around watering crops, Zorak (sorry if I misunderstood your point): from the small plots I've had (generally 20 x 30 spaces), they rarely need to be actively watered. So long as it isn't a blazing hot drought, rain and the moisture content does a good job. Instead, it should be controlling pests and prepping new farm land that takes the brunt of the task.

 

This really bugs me now too, that the only way to preserve food is to reach level 4/5 cooking and gather up every rotten piece of food possible. If they want to keep this mechanic in, food needs to reach a state to where there is NOTHING salvageable from it, because lets face it, given enough time, its gonna turn into liquid sludge.

 

I know its been said time and time again, but canning would be more realistic and nice, and would actually reward you more for farming (since I assume more brutal growth times will be added). You would defiantly need to go out and find jars, as they would put an effective "cap" on how much you could preserve, allowing a small buffer of excess food, but at the same time, encouraging you to seek alternatives through foraging/fishing/trapping/scavenging.

 

As it is currently, you simply grow as much food as you can possibly plant and save all the rotten food to cook as needed. At least canning would put a cap on how much excess you could keep, as well as being far more realistic. Canning supplies are pretty common in stores and households here in Kentucky.

 

 

What about a blender and protein juice made of rotten stuff? Would it be possible?

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What about a blender and protein juice made of rotten stuff? Would it be possible?

 

 

If you wanted to die of food poisoning, then sure.

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What about using rotten food as fertilizer? Or does that already exist in game?

no, but it comes up quite often. we can only hope it does make it's way into the game

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What about using rotten food as fertilizer? Or does that already exist in game?

no, but it comes up quite often. we can only hope it does make it's way into the game

 

Yep, I'm looking forward to the day composting is a thing. Or the day I bother finishing a mod. :D

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As long as farming remains moddable to the extent that it is, I'm happy. The default farming takes so much micromanaging that it takes all the fun out of the game.

 

Exactly, if you have a farm 5x5 (a good size for profit), and the game settings at 1 hour = 1 day in game, it's kind hard to take care of everything, since we have to use fertilizer and keep the farm wet/keep checking them. It's not a big deal because it's realistic, I think it's just the way that people choose to play, in my mind if someone starts a farm it's because he/she already have a safe house and etc.

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Im not all that sure that crops need that much attention to be honest.

 

Think about it, humans didnt create vegtables, they were just growing in the wild already, without anyone fertalising or watering them.

 

All we did is find ways to mass farm them more efficiently using cross breeding, pest control and fertiliser.

 

I've run an alottment before and if you just leave them, they will grow.   In fact strawberries for example are more like weeds and grow like wild fire.  Same goes with mushrooms, berries and tree fruits, herbs and spices, they will grow in the wild on their own with noone 'tending' to them.

 

Farming them merly increases their size and quantity produced, sure some may die out but enough will survive to feed you.  Potatoes do require a lot more watering if you want them to grow large and be bountious... but potatoes will still grow, they even grow if you just leave potatoe peelings in the soil.  They may not be super-market type potatoes but they will still be nutritious and will sutain you.

 

Again, your not farming to feed 100 people, your just farming enough to feed yourself, with trapping, fishing and foraging to supplement.

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Keep in mind that if you just let plants grow you can go entire years without seeing any fruit grow to fruition. If you screw up corn or berries everything may be shriveled and dead before it ever gets to an edible state. This is no problem for Mother Nature- she's patient- but a year without food for a person is death.

There's a reason farmers aren't just throwing seeds in a forest and then napping for a couple months. It's not as easy as you think, as someone who has actually farmed.

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I mean, if you want it to be realistic, that's fine. But realistic farming without technology is massively time consuming labor, and I'm never going to farm if more than 50% of my game time is spent right-clicking farm plots and grabbing water.

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Eh, some of the right clicking is fine (checking for disesae .etc), it's just the amount of water (and how easy it is to overwater) that bugs me, personally. :D

Wouldn't  mind knowing how much the moisture content and the water table contribute to this in real life, but for things I've grown, it's usually been a once a week thing in reality (and didn't necessarily require watering plants when close together).

Besides, doing some basic irrigation with a found hose and a tank could take the tedium out of it. :)

But . . . have a feeling this would be better discussed outside of this thread, perhaps in suggestions.

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Imo, a good thing to balance farming would be to only allow it during spring & summer (until early autumn for certain veggies), with a long growth period (I haven't had the chance to try the new actual growth time atm) ; so players will have to actually anticipate the growth time of their plants to harvest at the right period, and make stocks of potatoes for harsh winters.

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Well, it's a little silly that you have to harvest plants or they rot. IRL, there's a long period during the season that you can leave them on the vine. If that were present, players may actually be able to survive on farming in the base game without canning mods. As it is, unless you time it properly like a math nerd, you'll end up with periods where all your food rots between harvests.

 

I think realism that improves playability > realism that reduces playability.

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I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I don't believe ramping up the challenge based on how the game is right now is a good idea, because key features are still missing. Namely NPCs. The lack of challenge in PZ would be mitigated a great deal by forcing the player to deal with competitive scavenging, gunfights and safehouse raids outside of multiplayer. Hopefully you won't find yourself having to roll back a bunch of these changes once NPCs come into play. That being said, stuff like zombie migration should happen regardless.

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I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I don't believe ramping up the challenge based on how the game is right now is a good idea, because key features are still missing. Namely NPCs. The lack of challenge in PZ would be mitigated a great deal by forcing the player to deal with competitive scavenging, gunfights and safehouse raids outside of multiplayer. Hopefully you won't find yourself having to roll back a bunch of these changes once NPCs come into play. That being said, stuff like zombie migration should happen regardless.

Many people want to play the game right now, instead of at some point in the future when NPCs happen.

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