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Operation Fix Late Game By Killing You Before You Get There


lemmy101

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If you really want to make things hard to survive don't make rain barrels available until carpentry level 4 or 5. You'll be drinking from toilets for months and it will force you to go out and explore where you might not want to (eventually).

No, thank you. I'd rather they be nerfed immensely and made a little easier to build.

 

 

Being able to convert a garbage can (or other sensible container) into a rain barrel would be a real plus, too . . .

Agree on both of these. I think that a single rainbarrel gives you way too much water after a single rainfall and there's really no need to store water at all. I't again be much more challenging to manage a few more barrels and then have to make a reserve for the water, if you can't come up with enough containers. I miss the time when the well was your only option late game. You'd have to have all your pots, bowls and mugs filled to the top if you wanted to make sure you survived.

 

Long description on the amounts of rainfall, water needed per person etc.:

Realistically, Louisville has a yearly downpour of 44.9 inches or 114 cm so that would alone be about one rainbarrel. In a year!! If you wouldn't use any funnels etc. of course. Now let's say you use some of the drainage pipes. I checked and an average yield on an installed rainbarrel system is 24000 gallons. That system takes the water that comes from your roof. Now an average person in a 3rd world country uses roughly 23750 gallons yearly. (Sorry for the generalisations here, I'm not meaning to offend anyone!) That would come off as just even, maybe barely under, with a bit more in hand than our current shoddy rainbarrels. This would mean that we would break just even, with presumably water being used only for essentials and small farming. That would also mean that in the dryer months we would have a need for water storages. Currently the system gives a lot more than this and I think it should be nerfed down quite substantially.

 

TL;DR: Yes, more container options and a lot less water yield on a single barrel.

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It would be nice to be able to build a rain catch out of a tarp and some wooden sticks and planks. That should be the advanced structure in my opinion. Something like that would need to be really sturdily made by a skilled craftsman or else it'd fall over and break from the weight of the water and the force of the winds. That, and I also think the advanced rain barrel shouldn't have to have garbage bags to be water proof since, by then, you're skilled enough to make such a thing happen.

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Why cant we leave some buckets in the rooftop tho

 

I mean, pretty much everyone with a shorage of water uses buckets to collect rain.

 

I pretty much have that scene from 28 days later stuck in my head, where they are in the rooftops and have tons of buckets there and a tarp in the rooftop for water.

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And why not reducing (as well) the amount of rainy days?

 

On my current game (it may be a coincidence since I see people mentioning too often the baby-siting thingy on the farming topic) I just have to plant the seed and water it during the first day. After that, if I leave for a couple of days, rain will take care of my potatos / tomatoes (yeah I only grow the easy stuff  :ph34r: ) good enough. I'm at the end of December at the moment but rains come every single day. 

 

Reducing the amount of water that a rain barrel gives you will only lead to constructing more barrels.... which also makes sense. 

 

I think it would be a good idea to implement deseases in the stored water as has been suggested by Packbat a few posts back. 

 

And a final thought: would it be possible to make the amount of water falling from the rain different depending on the zone? Rainy in WP and sunny in Muldraugh for example (actually I'm not sure this is not already the case, never tested it to that extent)

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And a final thought: would it be possible to make the amount of water falling from the rain different depending on the zone? Rainy in WP and sunny in Muldraugh for example (actually I'm not sure this is not already the case, never tested it to that extent)

 

I'm not a meteorologist (obviously), but looking at weather records, I found there was some heavy rain that passed through Fort Knox the night of Sept. 10th and looked at the radar images on http://gis.ncdc.noaa.gov/ - from that, I couldn't see anything hit West Point or Muldraugh that didn't hit the other within ten minutes. Given the accelerated timescale of the game, the devs can probably treat the area as uniform for weather purposes and be done with it.

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I think instead of rain becoming less prevalent (since we have access to its setting luckily  and can tweak it to taste.) we think more along the lines of the effect rain has on difficulty.

 

Currently the wet mechanic and the repercussions of constantly being wet are negligable. Whereas in real life were you soaked, wind-chill becomes a big threat even in warm climates, wet clothes tend to cause irritation and skin damage over time, fine motor skills go out the window when you are wet and cold, you make more noise when wet, you can get chafing, rashes and even (if warm and you are constantly moist) things like ringworm.

 

Needless to say that being wet should have a greater impact on the player, and on top of any physical effect, being wet and in the rain tends to make people unhappy.

 

It wouldn't need massive overhauling or anything though in my mind, rain is rain. It should just have more of an effect when exposure time runs into a few hours. Not easily fatal, but certainly impairing to a degree.

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In addition, being overheated for too long should make your clothes get wet from sweating.

not necessarily. i have overheated a few times in the Moab desert (Utah) and i had quite the opposite, i had zero sweat and a high body core temp.(Hyperthermia) potentially deadly if not dealt with quickly, can cause organ shutdown as they themselves overheat.

 

the "cure" quite often is a night or two in the hospital hooked to IV fluids, maybe even an ice bath depending on severity of the heatstroke

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In addition, being overheated for too long should make your clothes get wet from sweating.

not necessarily. i have overheated a few times in the Moab desert (Utah) and i had quite the opposite, i had zero sweat and a high body core temp.(Hyperthermia) potentially deadly if not dealt with quickly, can cause organ shutdown as they themselves overheat.

 

the "cure" quite often is a night or two in the hospital hooked to IV fluids, maybe even an ice bath depending on severity of the heatstroke

 

 

Keep in mind Utah is extremely dry so sweat evaporates quickly. In milder climates- like the eastern seaboard- we tend to be at extremely high humidity almost year round (80% average in many cases), meaning sweat is very slow to evaporate. In Utah, you were actually sweating, but it was doing its job- cooling you by evaporating. In humid climates, sweat clings to the skin and doesn't do anything for you.

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Exactly what Rathlord said, and to add to what Syfy said: Perhaps humidity is being kept track of, I certainly have no idea what variables the seasonal system keeps track of exactly. But if it is simulated, or if it is to be simulated. Then the variation is the effect sweating has would be quite profound. And that could add to the survival aspect because you'd need to swap and change clothing according to the day.

 

Kinda makes me long for a "sweating" moodlet. One that could kick up as a symptom to illness as well. Could even play a role in how easy it is to smell your character. Given that zombies have the sense.

 

Of course this is not necessary to simulate, but could be interesting. Especially if the medical system adds in things like rashes and fungi naturally.

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I want to rewind a bit and get back to the crafted water barrels.

I think it would be nice to be able to craft them earlier but way less effective. Like a level 1 barrel would have less capacity, leaks, and as it wouldn't be well crafted it wouldn't resist many heavy rains, maybe a higher probability of hosting parasites or something. Level 2 would have less leaks and last longer etc... until the large, sturdy, leak-less level 5 barrel.

Starting with weak & leaking water collectors would make farming harder in the beginning, as they would most likely only be able to provide for your daily need of drinking water.

It would be actually nice to see that for pretty much any carpentry recipe, even any other crafting/surviving skills : being able to badly craft a lot of not-so-efficient items, and see your crafting skills getting better over time. That would make your first weeks/months more oriented on a day-to-day survival, and as the world is getting worst and worst, your character levels up to be able to survive those changing conditions.

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I want to rewind a bit and get back to the crafted water barrels.

I think it would be nice to be able to craft them earlier but way less effective. Like a level 1 barrel would have less capacity, leaks, and as it wouldn't be well crafted it wouldn't resist many heavy rains, maybe a higher probability of hosting parasites or something. Level 2 would have less leaks and last longer etc... until the large, sturdy, leak-less level 5 barrel.

Starting with weak & leaking water collectors would make farming harder in the beginning, as they would most likely only be able to provide for your daily need of drinking water.

It would be actually nice to see that for pretty much any carpentry recipe, even any other crafting/surviving skills : being able to badly craft a lot of not-so-efficient items, and see your crafting skills getting better over time. That would make your first weeks/months more oriented on a day-to-day survival, and as the world is getting worst and worst, your character levels up to be able to survive those changing conditions.

 

One thing i dont like about the rain barrels is that it rails you to using mid tech carpetry.

Like i said, it would be better if we used logic and make buckets catch rain but in a way less water then a mid tech rain collector, and even less than a full carpetry collector.

 

Making you scavange for buckets for an alternative of water.

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I want to rewind a bit and get back to the crafted water barrels.

I think it would be nice to be able to craft them earlier but way less effective. Like a level 1 barrel would have less capacity, leaks, and as it wouldn't be well crafted it wouldn't resist many heavy rains, maybe a higher probability of hosting parasites or something. Level 2 would have less leaks and last longer etc... until the large, sturdy, leak-less level 5 barrel.

Starting with weak & leaking water collectors would make farming harder in the beginning, as they would most likely only be able to provide for your daily need of drinking water.

 

 

I like this. I would take it a bit further. What if all barrels have a set level of durability. After some time, everything should break apart. Specially a hand crafted barrel made with crappy plastic bags. A level 5 barrel would just last for longer.

 

Hopefully the implementation of Erosion will lead towards that path :)

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I like the idea of unsafe water supplies. I don't know how obvious it should be that water is safe or unsafe - that might be a good use of higher-level Cooking skill, to improve your ability to tell.

Yep, having water stagnate would add to the difficulty in long-term survival. Could also be another valid use for bleach...

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I only read the first two pages so I apologise if this has already been mentioned but I was curious about this new late (or lack of) game. If I understand correctly, the idea will be to have zombies spawn at the edge of the map and then make their way towards the main towns. If this is indeed the case then please make sure zombies emigrate as well or at least have a max count. I would hate to live in the forest for 2 months and then head back into the city for tools and other supplies and find that the city center isn't just the 200-300 zombies that it used to be but one massive pack of zombies that is 2000+. Also most of us probably learned the hard way, that first naive time you jumped through a window without checking, only to be mauled by the 2 zombies on the other side. Will beginner mode be enough to teach new people the ropes of an increasing more difficult game?

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I think the primary thing beginner mode should havefer is enough time to learn the basics from Spiffo - how to get around, break into houses, carry loot, make ripped-sheet bandages, barricade windows, hang sheets as curtains, etc. Strategy and tactics they can figure out on their own. :)

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My concern is that the jump from beginner to future mode may be too much. Imagine being only able to do beginner and then not getting past week 1 for weeks. Maybe that was when the game was at its best, you know when surviving for a week was a big success until you learnt about safe scavenging and the like.

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My concern is that the jump from beginner to future mode may be too much. Imagine being only able to do beginner and then not getting past week 1 for weeks. Maybe that was when the game was at its best, you know when surviving for a week was a big success until you learnt about safe scavenging and the like.

When you put it that way...

Yeah, now beginner mode is sounding kinda like a bore to me, I remember that I learnt from the game from reading the wiki and watching robbaz's videos.

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I only bothered to read the last three pages of this thread and it focuses on how easy it is to build your base, grow crops and water them. Now I don't want this game to be overcomplicated, because there is already a lot of content there, it just isn't balanced yet. Here is an easy example: Even though I have been soaking wet time and again, I never got a cold, nor a fever or the flue. I have also been building a massive wall with logs instead of planks and I didn't injure my back at all. The same is true for the carpentry itself. Not a single injury from using the tools even though my character was totally inexperienced.

 

The programmers have already planned to improve the health system and you betcha injuries, infections and illnesses will play a bigger role. Then there will be NPCs and zombie hordes to balance the gameplay. I rather have those additional features to increase the difficulty level instead of tweaking the rather boring farming.If anything make farming easier in that it is enough the take care of the crops every five to ten days and in the meantime I can spend my time with the zombies and NPCs.

 

The ever decreasing amount of supplies will make other NPCs behaviour very interesting. Will they cooperate or attack? Can a community be formed? Will there be several groups fighting each other? I expect the interaction to be on an individual although it is quite a shame not to have your own version of the Walking Dead.

 

What will force the player to leave his safe haven? A damaged base, because wood is absolutely necessary to repair it. And maybe the player has to stay in contact with other survivors so they can help him once his own safe house gets attacked. Imagine you need a good relationship with your neighbours and batteries for the radio to call them to help you. Not only can you be attacked by zombies, imagine you are to ill to plant your crops or harvest them and a NPC nurses you. Maybe social interaction is more important to fight boredom, depression and panic attacks. There are plenty of ways to force the player to leave his base once NPCs are in.

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