DicheBach

I appreciate your detailed and edifying post EnigmaGrey. 
 
Nonetheless, I don't feel compelled to step back any of the points I made in my opening post. I feel sympathy for Indie Stone, I know they've faced a lot of difficulties.
 
From my standpoint, the message I have to convey is for THEIR benefit. Let me put it a different way: You've already sold nearly a million copies for a game that has no NPC allies in singleplayer mode. Consider two things:
1. How many sales are being forestalled indefinitely because of the lack of NPC allies in singleplayer mode.
2. What is the rate of "permanent loss" of those sales as time goes on.
3. What is the rate of "lost faith" or to be more technically accurate "lost brand loyalty" among those ~875,000 users who already sponsored your alpha project?
 
I have no desire to tear down an indie developer who (a) clearly has a love of their craft; (b) has already accomplished an amazing game; (c) shows promise of getting this gem into full-fledged Gold status, and quite possibly breaking Minecraft's records for total sales and overall impact on the gaming and digital consumer market worlds.
 
It is a neat game, and I'm 87.975% happy that I purchased it. That remaining 10.025% of "regret" is mainly a sense of disappointment/vicarious embarrassment which is apparently captured by the German word fremdschämen.
 
I'm not angry, I'm not vengeful, I'm not even delighting in their misfortune. They clearly are accomplished game developers. And yet, how could they spend EIGHT YEARS without even bothering to implement some rudimentary NPC algorithms?
 
People often go from "just graduated with their Bachelors degree" to "finished their Ph.D." in that span of time. If it is taking that long to create the algorithms necessary to implement functioning computer-controlled ally characters in-game, then perhaps the standards are too high?
 
 . . .
ADDIT: Anyway, I sense that this is a very sensitive topic and that fans/supporters have perhaps slipped into a "enabler" role perhaps a bit too easily. I know that there are a lot of jerks on the Internet and I sense that Indie Stone and this deficiency in the game in particular have been the target of a lot of jerk attacks, as suggested by the fact that my own sincere attempts to offer what I see as "criticially important feedback for the benefit of the developer and the community" is regarded with some unease.
 
A strong and meaningful relationship between a product creator (such as a game development studio) and its consumers (e.g., the gamers who frequent their forums) is, in all honesty, a beautiful thing. It is a rare thing in the modern marketplace, and social relations with such dimensions probably have been rare since at least the industrial revolution.
 
But when the relationship of the sponsor becomes one of "enabling" inertia, that is where the close supportiveness has begun to work at cross-purposes. Outsiders can see it, but many who might step in to say something will lack the basic tact and social skills to do so diplomatically and constructively. Certainly my goal is not to provoke uproar or reverse the prevailing affection which so many users obviously feel; perhaps I fall short in the diplomatic and constructive dimensions too. But that is my goal.

Surely I'm missing something here? I purchased this game with the understandable expectation that the character played by the player in single player mode is not the sole remaining healthy normal human in Knox County, i.e., that it was possible to meet, befriend, recruit and organize other healthy normal human "non player characters (NPC)" entities during gameplay and organize them into "communities."
 
This game has been in development since at least 2011. It has an estimated ~875,000 units sold according to SteamSpy (at an estimated median unit price of say . . . $10, that is $8,750,000 in gross revenue since the game was released on Steam, and that would mean ~$6.125 million pre-tax/pre-customs take for Indie Stone after the distributor [Steam] takes their cut . . .).
 
There are indie dev games which have been out for 1/8th as long, have 1/10th the sales volume, and nonetheless have recruitable non player character entitites in game. Recuitable NPCs have been in games since the early 1990s.
 
I see discussion to the effect that the vision for the computer controlled ally entities is to create something truly groundbreaking, something that might actually justify that widely misused term "A.I.". Were this not a commercial computer game product, I'd say that would be a laudable goal.
 
The game is only partly playable as it is. You are business people, and this game is your product. You have already received far more support and faith from the Steam marketplace than most indie developers ever DREAM in their entire careers. Take your heads out of the clouds, implement something that it is "good enough" put it in the game and move forward toward Gold. You do realize that you can always update the game.
 
Seriously guys. What are you thinking? You cannot possibly go from "no computer controlled ally entities in game" to "one of the best computer controlled ally entities in games" with zero play testing in between.
 
I am tempted to post a "Do Not Recommend" review on Steam.

unfair comparison. the npcs in state of decay are pretty bland and scripted, it still made for a fun game that a lot of people actually played and liked. not to mention they were all friendly. npcs in pz are said to be unpredictable, smart and could be all kinds of things from bad to evil to neutral to friendly etc.. it will definitely make me go back to this game because i finally have a real threat to fear and plan against instead of the easily avoidable, shambling and highly predictable zombies which are more of an environmental obstacle than anything else

This is me making a comment because I had to back-read this whole thing. Now NPCs would be great in the game, and they could possibly do it now sure, it's possible. However, this feature is minuscule in comparison to a much more desired and important part of the game, that I would argue ties into the core of survival and what this game is all about. This feature I speak of is obviously, the ability to place pots outside, and when it rains have them fill up with water. Truly a daunting game mechanic to implement and completely necessary for me to enjoy the game again. When I saw mention of this feature as an idea, years ago, I became super hyped. I consequently became super sad after realizing that, it wasn't coming anytime soon. Made me real sad I tell ya, so I sympathize with you.
 
I'd also like to ask what kind of people you play multiplayer with that are burdens/drags or you form fragile troubled relationships. Are they like, stealing your kitchen supplies and all of your Cola's? Because you know at that point the correct course of action is to just shoot them and never let them back into your sky base. I'd be damn mad if some thief tried to take my collection of forks.

Surely I'm missing something here? I purchased this game with the understandable expectation that the character played by the player in single player mode is not the sole remaining healthy normal human in Knox County, i.e., that it was possible to meet, befriend, recruit and organize other healthy normal human "non player characters (NPC)" entities during gameplay and organize them into "communities."
 
This game has been in development since at least 2011. It has an estimated ~875,000 units sold according to SteamSpy (at an estimated median unit price of say . . . $10, that is $8,750,000 in gross revenue since the game was released on Steam, and that would mean ~$6.125 million pre-tax/pre-customs take for Indie Stone after the distributor [Steam] takes their cut . . .).
 
There are indie dev games which have been out for 1/8th as long, have 1/10th the sales volume, and nonetheless have recruitable non player character entitites in game. Recuitable NPCs have been in games since the early 1990s.
 
I see discussion to the effect that the vision for the computer controlled ally entities is to create something truly groundbreaking, something that might actually justify that widely misused term "A.I.". Were this not a commercial computer game product, I'd say that would be a laudable goal.
 
The game is only partly playable as it is. You are business people, and this game is your product. You have already received far more support and faith from the Steam marketplace than most indie developers ever DREAM in their entire careers. Take your heads out of the clouds, implement something that it is "good enough" put it in the game and move forward toward Gold. You do realize that you can always update the game.
 
Seriously guys. What are you thinking? You cannot possibly go from "no computer controlled ally entities in game" to "one of the best computer controlled ally entities in games" with zero play testing in between.
 
I am tempted to post a "Do Not Recommend" review on Steam.

The game is fully worth every penny all of us paid for it, and it is a good game already, despite still being in early access. Once I had played it past the point where I started this thread, that became clear to me. But I started this thread because I played it for a while, expected I might encounter some other survivors but didn't  (shocking I know, but I don't often read ALL the fine print documentation and the full Internet post history for every title I buy . . .), played it a while longer and still didn't . . . did some searching and pretty soon realized there are no NPC survivors in the game, and it was at that point that I had a reaction: "You gotta be kidding me!?" (grinning [not grimacing] mouth agape in surprise). So I posted, strictly in the interest of providing feedback. I had (and have) no intent of causing anyone any grief, nor engaging in hysterics, merely to convey the reaction of one user upon realizing there were no NPCs. Given I'm an older, fairly low-expectations user with some insights into software development that might be indicative of how a broad range of younger and/or higher-expectations users without much insight into software development might react. In sum, it is a very big "gap" in the game. Game is still worth buying and fun and not in anyway "not worth the sales price."

The game is fully worth every penny all of us paid for it, and it is a good game already, despite still being in early access. Once I had played it past the point where I started this thread, that became clear to me. But I started this thread because I played it for a while, expected I might encounter some other survivors but didn't  (shocking I know, but I don't often read ALL the fine print documentation and the full Internet post history for every title I buy . . .), played it a while longer and still didn't . . . did some searching and pretty soon realized there are no NPC survivors in the game, and it was at that point that I had a reaction: "You gotta be kidding me!?" (grinning [not grimacing] mouth agape in surprise). So I posted, strictly in the interest of providing feedback. I had (and have) no intent of causing anyone any grief, nor engaging in hysterics, merely to convey the reaction of one user upon realizing there were no NPCs. Given I'm an older, fairly low-expectations user with some insights into software development that might be indicative of how a broad range of younger and/or higher-expectations users without much insight into software development might react. In sum, it is a very big "gap" in the game. Game is still worth buying and fun and not in anyway "not worth the sales price."

The game is fully worth every penny all of us paid for it, and it is a good game already, despite still being in early access. Once I had played it past the point where I started this thread, that became clear to me. But I started this thread because I played it for a while, expected I might encounter some other survivors but didn't  (shocking I know, but I don't often read ALL the fine print documentation and the full Internet post history for every title I buy . . .), played it a while longer and still didn't . . . did some searching and pretty soon realized there are no NPC survivors in the game, and it was at that point that I had a reaction: "You gotta be kidding me!?" (grinning [not grimacing] mouth agape in surprise). So I posted, strictly in the interest of providing feedback. I had (and have) no intent of causing anyone any grief, nor engaging in hysterics, merely to convey the reaction of one user upon realizing there were no NPCs. Given I'm an older, fairly low-expectations user with some insights into software development that might be indicative of how a broad range of younger and/or higher-expectations users without much insight into software development might react. In sum, it is a very big "gap" in the game. Game is still worth buying and fun and not in anyway "not worth the sales price."

Indeed...there's nothing wrong with honest feedback, especially if its delivered in a non-offensive manner. I may not agree with all the points raised in the initial post, but its FAR better then the usual troll tripe I see when I look at the negative posts in the steam discussions. Alot of people don't seem to realize the reality of software:  It changes over time. Features are added and removed until it is abandoned and no longer in development.  If a 'must have' feature is getting removed in a update, you freeze your version and refuse to update (not sure if steam lets you do this though since I don't actively use it).
Sadly I feel sorry for the TIS team, they take a insane amount of crap on steam (especially Enigma it seems).  I may not agree with all their choices either, but its their game, not mine. No one spends this long on a piece of code unless they actively love working on it (or some boss is slaving them to do it, which is not the case here).
I know I got this game for what it is, not what it will/might be in the future. A decision I don't regret. If development ever starts to go in direction I don't like, I will keep playing the previous versions and still be content with this game and what the team has done with it.

I appreciate your detailed and edifying post EnigmaGrey. 
 
Nonetheless, I don't feel compelled to step back any of the points I made in my opening post. I feel sympathy for Indie Stone, I know they've faced a lot of difficulties.
 
From my standpoint, the message I have to convey is for THEIR benefit. Let me put it a different way: You've already sold nearly a million copies for a game that has no NPC allies in singleplayer mode. Consider two things:
1. How many sales are being forestalled indefinitely because of the lack of NPC allies in singleplayer mode.
2. What is the rate of "permanent loss" of those sales as time goes on.
3. What is the rate of "lost faith" or to be more technically accurate "lost brand loyalty" among those ~875,000 users who already sponsored your alpha project?
 
I have no desire to tear down an indie developer who (a) clearly has a love of their craft; (b) has already accomplished an amazing game; (c) shows promise of getting this gem into full-fledged Gold status, and quite possibly breaking Minecraft's records for total sales and overall impact on the gaming and digital consumer market worlds.
 
It is a neat game, and I'm 87.975% happy that I purchased it. That remaining 10.025% of "regret" is mainly a sense of disappointment/vicarious embarrassment which is apparently captured by the German word fremdschämen.
 
I'm not angry, I'm not vengeful, I'm not even delighting in their misfortune. They clearly are accomplished game developers. And yet, how could they spend EIGHT YEARS without even bothering to implement some rudimentary NPC algorithms?
 
People often go from "just graduated with their Bachelors degree" to "finished their Ph.D." in that span of time. If it is taking that long to create the algorithms necessary to implement functioning computer-controlled ally characters in-game, then perhaps the standards are too high?
 
 . . .
ADDIT: Anyway, I sense that this is a very sensitive topic and that fans/supporters have perhaps slipped into a "enabler" role perhaps a bit too easily. I know that there are a lot of jerks on the Internet and I sense that Indie Stone and this deficiency in the game in particular have been the target of a lot of jerk attacks, as suggested by the fact that my own sincere attempts to offer what I see as "criticially important feedback for the benefit of the developer and the community" is regarded with some unease.
 
A strong and meaningful relationship between a product creator (such as a game development studio) and its consumers (e.g., the gamers who frequent their forums) is, in all honesty, a beautiful thing. It is a rare thing in the modern marketplace, and social relations with such dimensions probably have been rare since at least the industrial revolution.
 
But when the relationship of the sponsor becomes one of "enabling" inertia, that is where the close supportiveness has begun to work at cross-purposes. Outsiders can see it, but many who might step in to say something will lack the basic tact and social skills to do so diplomatically and constructively. Certainly my goal is not to provoke uproar or reverse the prevailing affection which so many users obviously feel; perhaps I fall short in the diplomatic and constructive dimensions too. But that is my goal.

I admit too there are just some "immersive" additions to the game that have made it less fun to play.
 
I hate the multistage building system. I now have to spend double time of my life to build a safe house.
To me that addition to the game was a clear waste of time and total feature creep.
 
I dont build safehouses in zomboid anymore because of it :/
 
 
 
Also the TV and Radios sounded cool on paper but the execution of it sucked and its usually just ignored by most players.
 
 
I do admit the Vehicles is an amazing much needed addition and thats one of the few praises I have of their new work. Vehicles was something i thought would never be implemented.
 
 
I dread the devs updates sometimes. They want to make weapons weaker and all these little useless balance changes with only the multiplayer experience in mind, this is a game, it shouldn't be a chore to have fun in a game.

Yeah, the game has a lot of history to fight.

I'm not really following, so I'll try to answer as best I can and hope we can meet in the middle:
 
Installing mods in %UserProfile%\Zomboid\mods is the method used during the pre-workshop days. You can still use it if you're working on a mod, and want to overwrite the workshop version without using it. An even older method is installing it in %ProgramFiles(x86)\Steamapps\common\ProjectZomboid\mods, but that'd be a Very Bad Idea, given it's from the Desura scripting days.
 
The intent isn't that users install mods to %UserProfile%\Zomboid.
 
Steam uses the default Steam workshop directory for that: %ProgramFiles(x86)%\Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\itemID\
 
The game then mirrors the old structure from there, with a \mods\ModName\ folder and settings file.

Strange . . . I have this:
 
X:\Users\DicheBach\Zomboid\mods\loaded.txt
 
Which says
 
But no sign of the actual files that comprise those mods. A quick launch shows that they are active (or at least "Survivors" is).
 
ADDIT: lolwut! 
http://steamcommunity.com/app/108600/discussions/0/405692758707261989/
 
Le Sigh
X:\Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\108600\498441420\mods\Hydrocraft

 
If that is something you guys can reconfigure, it might be a good idea.

You need catnip too now.

Hydrocraft v9.8 has been released!
 
Which includes ...
 
- Fixed Horse, Pack Dogs and Robot Arm Sizes.
- Can Recycle Sacks
- Can Shuck Corn
- Fixed Phenylactic Acid Labeling Recipe
- Fixed Wooden Bucket with Rubber
- Fixed Makeshift Shower
- Tweaked Herbal Medicine
- Can Dry Alfalfa into Straw
- Fixed Potted Apricot
- Fixed Meth Barrels
- Added Tried Camellia and Tea
- Added Corn Cob and Husk
- Added 6 New Herbs
- Added 7 New Toys
- Added Can of Peanuts, Bottle of Orange Juice and Bottle of Cranberry Juice
- Added 10 types of Beer Cans
- Added Grenade Launcher (High Explosive, Fire and Smoke)
- Added Lumber Axe and Sawblade Axe
- Added Glass and Acrylic Bongs - Added the Irrigation Mod!
- Thanks to everyone who helped!
 
Enjoy!

No need to post all those rendering issues, we're aware of it it's because of the Z-Buffer, something that'll be look into later, not urgent one.
 
@arkahys You mean you can remove car parts without keys/vehicle hotwired?
 
For the mechanics books i'll give a look, I swear i fixed it before already..

Its what you get for stealing all our best talent. Every now and then we decide to lob a few cultural nukes across the border.

RIGHT!?! I guess it's our fault though, we should really add "Do you want to go to the US to start a music career as an annoying whiny teenager catering to other annoying whiny teens?" to our border patrol checklist.

On behalf of all Canadians, I would like to formally apologize for Justin Bieber.
We're sorry, and it won't happen again.

Without knowing the code and design, it's silly to try and suggest a "better" set of features to be working on.  It's important to keep in mind that RJ and the other devs have the roadmap; it's best to let them set the priorities as they see fit.
 
Shin

two last posts are in a certain way what I think, but talking about the work to do on this game, would like to say :

Is it time to fine tune of color ?

maybe these hours could be used to keep on dress the queen rather than choose the color of her shoes ! 

Personally, I don't feel like you should be trying to be that "realistic" when it comes to vehicle colors. Zomboid has its own aesthetic and should focus on using colors that feel like they fit into the game. Although I do agree that more variety in vehicle colors would be lovely, forcing in tons of bright blue, red and white vehicles in just because "that was popular in america in the 90s" seems a bit silly  Do what you think looks good @RobertJohnson instead of what is "realistic".

Do you have Justin Bieber playing in the background or something?
 
Seems compatible already isn't it? I mean, it loads. Not sure if it experiences some sort of glitch?

You do, for maybe the first day. It becomes rarer quickly as everyone starts dying. Just like how it would go down! You can try to help people out and get them to join you or, do what I've taken to doing: Lock your partner in a bathroom, tell them to stay put (use the right-click context menu for orders), run around to spawn as many survivors as you can, watch them die (maybe help a couple), loot their bodies, then go back home- You'll have a sweet starting loadout, your partner is usually still alive, and the survivors will have lured the zeds away from your base with their gunfire! Good times ensue.