Another Malaysian Airlines Crash...

[Johnny]

So, most of you would have heard about the MH17, right? Cause its flooding all over the place.

Well, its the second Malaysia plane that has crashed in the last 6 months. Stupid thing is, IT WAS SHOT DOWN! *Everyone on forums gasps* . Yes, it was shot down. But, it could have been insurgents (But how do they have that equipment), or Russia. Discuss your ideas about the crash here. I'm quite shocked too. 

 

POOR MALAYSIA AIRLINES :'( They must not be doing well at the moment.

[magnum2016]

Here are my guesses

 

 

1. Insurgents shot it down thinking it was a An-27 or something of the liking

 

2. The Ukrainian Military shot it down to put the blame on the insurgents and get the world more riled up at them, making it seem even worse if Russia backs them up.

 

There is no way Russia would have shot down the plane because what would they have gained from it? Putting more pressure on the Insurgents? No way

[EnigmaGrey]

Any proof yet that it was shot down and not merely suspected of being so?

[Johnny]

Here are my guesses

 

 

1. Insurgents shot it down thinking it was a An-27 or something of the liking

 

2. The Ukrainian Military shot it down to put the blame on the insurgents and get the world more riled up at them, making it seem even worse if Russia backs them up.

 

There is no way Russia would have shot down the plane because what would they have gained from it? Putting more pressure on the Insurgents? No way

I thought about this too. But seeing a guy interviewed, he said he saw a second plane fly over a river or something. They may have been trying to shoot a different plane, but stupidly shot the MH17 :I

 

 

[Connall]

http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5912677/plane-ukraine-malaysia

 

For those who want the quick run down.

 

- Shot down over Ukraine.

 

- 298 people on board.

 

- Rebels say they didn't do it since they don't have capabilities to do it.

 

- Rebels actually do have capabilities to do it allegedly.

 

- No confirmation on who shot the plane down.

 

- Evidence is pointing to rebels but rebels and Russia are denying any involvement.

 

The rest of it is posturing and official responses.

 

Moved to General Discussion since it's link to PZ is questionable.

[Johnny]

Any proof yet that it was shot down and not merely suspected of being so?

There does seem to be proof of it being shot down. There were "Missiles" and a phone call over a few insurgents or what ever... I have no idea... xD

 

Any proof yet that it was shot down and not merely suspected of being so?

There does seem to be proof of it being shot down. There were "Missiles" and a phone call over a few insurgents or what ever... I have no idea... xD

 

Yep, that was a nice rundown...

WHO DUNNIT!

Edit: There was another place for this to go?! OH MAI GOD HOW DO I NOT KNOW!~

[magnum2016]

Well the main thing we have to look at is which side would it be beneficial for?

 

 

 

Rebels- All it would do is make them look even worse and make Russia inch further away from them,

 

Russia- Don't get me started, there is no reason Russia would do this

 

Ukraine- Shoot down the plane and blame the rebels and make them look bad, in which making it so even more countries unite to stop the uprising in Eastern Ukraine.

 

 

 

Now it could have been an accident such as the rebels believed it was an Ukrainian Transport Plane however i believe if they have the technology to shoot them down they would be able to to tell the difference between an An-27 and a 747,

 

 

I personally think that it was Ukraine however no country will ever take responsibility

[Xydonus]

Now it could have been an accident such as the rebels believed it was an Ukrainian Transport Plane however i believe if they have the technology to shoot them down they would be able to to tell the difference between an An-27 and a 747,

 

People make mistakes all the time. Just because they have the means doesn't mean that they can properly follow correct identification procedures before going ahead with the firing of the missile. Plus, if it was indeed the rebels, this is even more true. Not to mention the plane was 33k feet in the air.

 

Igor Strelkov stated on twitter, boasting, that they had shot down an AN72 shortly after the downing of the 777 Boeing. He deleted the twit when the identification of the plane came out. There has been no reports of an AN72 going down within the time frame of the 777.

 

I believe the pro-Russian insurgents shot it down, by accident. It's not a question of what they have to gain, it's now a question of denying it and trying to pass the blame onto the ones their fighting.

[Deadend]

The Chinese did it xD

 

EDIT:

but in all seriousness, been watching the news and it seems the Ukranian gov't. released some voice recordings of a conversation between insurgents that had been intercepted. According to the recording it was an accident, the insurgents didn't know it was a civilian flight before shooting it down. But that could also easily be a mock-up of the Ukranian Gov't to cover up their own intentional/unintentional mess. 

[TheLastCandleBurns]

Relax guys.

 

No one of us will know the truth and even after the official international investigation each side of the conflict will not trust it and continue to blame each other. And me too because I'm sure that all of them will try to have an influence upon the investigation. This is how this shitty world regulated.

 

I trust to my eyes only and do not trust to the governments and medias which in point of fact both are the same.

 

I just pity the people died because of some bastards wanting to extend their geopolitical authority.

[Cdr.Keen]

Do the rebels own planes which are able to fly in such height? Is there any need for Ukraine to shoot such planes?

[d0v3r]

i really can't believe that no one there knew it wasn't a military plane...

 

i mean c'mon, google could be watching us via google earth (midly kidding)  and that military faggots couldn't notice that the plane was too big to be a military one... fffs.

 

 

as many people said, we can just feel pity for those who died for something that had nothing to deal with them.

 

 

_{srry for my crappy eng, just wanted to left my two cents in here ^^} 

[EnigmaGrey]

Not as though it's the first time it's happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[Ewok]

My thoughts, probably uninformed - please educate me if I'm wrong bout any of this...

 

Pro-Russian rebels shot down the plane, probably didn't identify it as civilian. Not the first they've shot down, they claimed responsibility for shooting down two Ukranian Sukhoi-25 jets recently. Seems like they've actively been targetting Ukranian aircraft.

 

Of course, the other issue is how could 'rebels' get their hands on the technology required to shoot down a plane flying at 35,000 feet? I know virtually nothing about military hardware, but that seems like a serious task requiring serious tech. So, did Russia give them the hardware?

[Fryhizzle]

To me it doesn't matter who did it, just terrible that it happened.  Someone was just probably really anxious to try out their new GTA tube, and now they are trying to play it off by reading a newspaper or looking at their watch.  This kind of shit happens when you have your blood up to commit senseless violence, and have more firepower than responsibility.

 

R.I.P folks, it appears you may have paid the price for a terrible mistake.

[LeoIvanov]

The only trouble that ukraine is facing in blaming the rebels is that they claim that if they can shoot down military fighters from the sky, then they can shoot down civilian airlines. I haven't checked the facts yet so don't quote me on this, but don't civilian airlines fly waaaaay higher than fighters that have an intention to shoot down on-land targets? They don't need to fly low and the machinery that rebels have been using to shoot them down before probably wouldn't be able to shoot that high up in the sky to reach.

 

Not to mention a little untrustworthy but still worthy of mentioning issue with "spanish dispatcher" on twitter saying that he has noticed two airplanes nearby the airlines before the crash. 

[Cdr.Keen]

They don't need to fly low and the machinery that rebels have been using to shoot them down before probably wouldn't be able to shoot that high up in the sky to reach.

rebels don't own airplanes which are able to fly in such height. So Ukraine don't have to shoot at such targets. For such planes you need a decent runway and the rebels don't own a runway like this.

But Ukraine own such airplanes and rebels have a reason to target them.

But overall i think it was a "mistake" by the rebels - they may don't realize what kind of missles they fired.

(Sorry for posting from mobile)

[LeoIvanov]

 

They don't need to fly low and the machinery that rebels have been using to shoot them down before probably wouldn't be able to shoot that high up in the sky to reach.

rebels don't own airplanes which are able to fly in such height. So Ukraine don't have to shoot at such targets. For such planes you need a decent runway and the rebels don't own a runway like this.

But Ukraine own such airplanes and rebels have a reason to target them.

But overall i think it was a "mistake" by the rebels - they may don't realize what kind of missles they fired.

(Sorry for posting from mobile)

 

 

Not quite a while ago Russia was yet again framed for an airstrike done in some eastern Ukraine's city, the airstrike that was followed after the "airplane" entering the airspace, dropping bombs, and dissapearing. If Ukraine wants to sign up under those accusations, then they automatically agree that they have had reasons to keep anti-aircraft missiles at the ready. 

 

Plus, there's a similar "confirmation" to Girkin's "VK" post about shooting down an aircraft from the Ukraine's side :

 

http://cs616127.vk.me/v616127436/10c3c/KacaXce-qd8.jpg

 

In it they claim to have shot down Russian airplane above "Shakhtarsky" (As much as I understood from Ukrainian language). It's as trustworthy as "Girkin's twitter/vk confirmation" that Ukraine's media is providing as a proof.

[MafiaPuppet]

Girkin

 

So the leader of the revolution is basically named Pickles?

[Connall]

My thoughts, probably uninformed - please educate me if I'm wrong bout any of this...

 

Pro-Russian rebels shot down the plane, probably didn't identify it as civilian. Not the first they've shot down, they claimed responsibility for shooting down two Ukranian Sukhoi-25 jets recently. Seems like they've actively been targetting Ukranian aircraft.

 

Of course, the other issue is how could 'rebels' get their hands on the technology required to shoot down a plane flying at 35,000 feet? I know virtually nothing about military hardware, but that seems like a serious task requiring serious tech. So, did Russia give them the hardware?

 

Rebels captured an artillery defence unit. Nothing to questionable at face value. Apparently, though the information surrounding the acquisition of the thing is sketchy, it's not completely unreasonable to say that a country would be supplying weapons to the rebels there's a lot of posturing by the Ukraine saying that Russia is supplying them weapons, though a AA vehicle seems like an odd thing to give them, you would kind of expect small-medium arms sort of supplies.

 

Still not much point in discussing it, if someone is giving them weapons odds are we won't know about it until long after the dust settles.

[Tooks]

Simpsons did it

[Cdr.Keen]

Rebels captured an artillery defence unit. Nothing to questionable at face value.

It's not the question where they got it from - who teached them how to use it? It's not like a fps with Keyboard and mouse. You must be well educated to target and shoot an airplane - this is not a one man operation.

[LeoIvanov]

 

Rebels captured an artillery defence unit. Nothing to questionable at face value.

It's not the question where they got it from - who teached them how to use it? It's not like a fps with Keyboard and mouse. You must be well educated to target and shoot an airplane - this is not a one man operation.

 

 

The more important thing is the fact that those units can't be used from the ground by themselves, you'd need a whole base of operations with the correct equipment for it to work properly. Without all of this the artillery defence unit is nothing but an expensive trophy for the rebels.

[EnigmaGrey]

 

 

Rebels captured an artillery defence unit. Nothing to questionable at face value.

It's not the question where they got it from - who teached them how to use it? It's not like a fps with Keyboard and mouse. You must be well educated to target and shoot an airplane - this is not a one man operation.

 

 

The more important thing is the fact that those units can't be used from the ground by themselves, you'd need a whole base of operations with the correct equipment for it to work properly. Without all of this the artillery defence unit is nothing but an expensive trophy for the rebels.

 

Judging from the wikipedia page, the whole base is a minimum of 3 vehicles?

And it's not as though the rebels can't be ex-Ukrainian military, neh?

[TheLastCandleBurns]

It's not the question where they got it from - who teached them how to use it? It's not like a fps with Keyboard and mouse. You must be well educated to target and shoot an airplane - this is not a one man operation.

Ukranian government says that the rebels captured few BUK missile systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system) and the airplane could be destroyed by these SAM. And off course targeting and destroying an airplane cannot be processed by the lonely guy sitting in such vehicle.

As I read today in Russian medias the targeting must be provided by radiolocator, but there are some BUK modifications with radiolocator integrated into the same vehicle.