Tripping and falling..

[GrandPunkRailroad]

I picked this up from Etsamaru's exhaustive list of ideas (I didn't even get through all of them), and it made me laugh. But the thread was locked before i could support it. 

 

Zombies should fall occasionally after climbing over the low fences. I can totally see it! Possibly more realistic.. If the animations were made, potentially they could be used for the player character too. Like in D&D there could be a chance to fall every time the PC vaulted a fence (Dexterity check). This chance would decrease with Nimble buff of course.

 

The player might also fall when walking backwards while looking forward. As someone had said in another topic (which I can't seem to find now.. maybe Binoculars or Zooming)  Both good ideas. Neither were mine. 

 

Thx for the awesome suggestions!

and for making me laugh.

[Bioradical]

I just want a reason to have fences at all. They don't stop or reasonably hinder a zombie by making it fall on it's face and forcing it to slowly recover.

Other than cosmetic purposes it's just a waste of wood and other materials.

[Kajin]

I can see something like this. It is kind of odd that zombies are capable of climbing through windows and hopping over fences as though they retained the agility of life. Put up a bunch of small fences that your character can jump over with ease that significantly slow down undead pursuers.

[deprav]

The effect fences have on zombies surely should be tweaked. Either brainlessly walking into it and falling over to then getting back up on their feet, or a different slower animation. Most of the time when I play with my girlfriend she says 4 or 5 times "I saw someone (a player) jumping into that house" , always end up with the "player" being in fact a zombie ;p

[Kajin]

I think the main reason it doesn't act like that already, though, is because zombies are using the same animations as players and the devs have other things on their minds that they'd rather work on over making new animations for zeds. But I'm sure this'll happen eventually.

[deprav]

Ye I'm pretty certain it will, just further down the line.

[Etsamaru]

This idea really appeals to me, also I was the one who said you should have a chance to trip while walking backwards. I suggested sticks or branches you wouldn't trip over while they are in your view, but backwards would have a chance to trip over it.

 

Hey thanks for the credit!

 

Edit: I noticed that this is probably a bad idea since we want death to be our own fault. (After Reading next posts.) But I do think the Zombies should still trip or things, and fall over fences.

[silents429]

The idea of my character falling at all just sounds like an annoying mechanic.
 
Im one of those people that can run accross ice without falling. Something silly like walking backwards and falling for no reason doesn't feel right.


This system should in fact NOT be in affect for a perfectly healthy person, but instead affect them when there leg is injured, or something.

If they are exhausted climbing over a fence would give a small delay when they land on the other side.



But if my character is healthy ain't no way I am going to trip everywhere. 
I know this idea has been suggested many months ago and I had a more detailed reason to be against this but I understand its fundamental purpose.

 

[N33R]

The idea of my character falling at all just sounds like an annoying mechanic.

 

Im one of those people that can run accross ice without falling. Something stupid like walking backwards and falling for no reason doesn't feel right.

This system should in fact NOT be in affect for a perfectly healthy person, but instead affect them when there leg is injured, or something.

If they are exhausted climbing over a fence would give a small delay when they land on the other side.

But if my character is healthy ain't no way I am going to trip everywhere. 

I know this idea has been suggested many months ago and I had a more detailed reason to be against this but I understand its fundamental purpose.

 

The idea of a player being exhausted and clumsy hits the spot for me. Tiredout should make things take more time than normal, and a slight risk of a trip rather than a general mechanic of the game.

[Ewok]

Zombies traipping and falling on short fences - totally for that, although I imagine it's planned and the currenty 'jumping' is just a placeholder.

 

The player falling over I'm dead against, as it takes an element of control away from you. Dying and knowing it's my fault is fine, but if my character were to randomly 'trip' and it leads to death (and there is a pretty good chance it would), that's PC-tower-thrown-through-the-window frustrating.

[GrandPunkRailroad]

Zombies traipping and falling on short fences - totally for that, although I imagine it's planned and the currenty 'jumping' is just a placeholder.

 

The player falling over I'm dead against, as it takes an element of control away from you. Dying and knowing it's my fault is fine, but if my character were to randomly 'trip' and it leads to death (and there is a pretty good chance it would), that's PC-tower-thrown-through-the-window frustrating.

Can see the points made both for Zombie clumsiness and against player accidental falls. Great discussion! Thanks for supporting this thread.

 

I'd like to see zombies fall occasionally just to add to the realism of their movements (and for a quick laugh (aww.. look at the poor little zombie, need help up? WHAMM!)) but not necessarily for it as it might slow them down and possibly make the game easier when near fences. Maybe those sprinting zombies would hardly be slowed, or change occasionally into those annoying fast crawlers.. Dunno. Just an idea of how the idea could be implemented without destroying difficulty balance..

 

I could also see how sleepiness or nausea could tip the slider up for player falls when climbing fences if player falls were implemented, but I see everyone's point about how loss of player control would be annoying. Perhaps it would be best to leave player falls out then..

 

Although, think of the panic you'd feel once you realized that you'd have to scramble up after tripping with the horde on your tail! I mean, this game is about creating a narrative survival story. That'd be about as exciting and frantic as encountering two zombies in a bathroom, and having the surprise sound beep, as you jump in your seat!

[silents429]

 

Zombies traipping and falling on short fences - totally for that, although I imagine it's planned and the currenty 'jumping' is just a placeholder.

 

The player falling over I'm dead against, as it takes an element of control away from you. Dying and knowing it's my fault is fine, but if my character were to randomly 'trip' and it leads to death (and there is a pretty good chance it would), that's PC-tower-thrown-through-the-window frustrating.

Can see the points made both for Zombie clumsiness and against player accidental falls. Great discussion! Thanks for supporting this thread.

 

I'd like to see zombies fall occasionally just to add to the realism of their movements (and for a quick laugh (aww.. look at the poor little zombie, need help up? WHAMM!)) but not necessarily for it as it might slow them down and possibly make the game easier when near fences. Maybe those sprinting zombies would hardly be slowed, or change occasionally into those annoying fast crawlers.. Dunno. Just an idea of how the idea could be implemented without destroying difficulty balance..

 

I could also see how sleepiness or nausea could tip the slider up for player falls when climbing fences if player falls were implemented, but I see everyone's point about how loss of player control would be annoying. Perhaps it would be best to leave player falls out then..

 

Although, think of the panic you'd feel once you realized that you'd have to scramble up after tripping with the horde on your tail! I mean, this game is about creating a narrative survival story. That'd be about as exciting and frantic as encountering two zombies in a bathroom, and having the surprise sound beep, as you jump in your seat!

 

 

I don't like the panic arguement. A lot of people handle panic differently. Ever play an intense game of tag as a child and have the tagger close by? Were you tripping over everything or running? And yes this works the same with zombies.

I for one ensure I don't fall when running from anything. I don't really know what goes through others minds but I sure as hell know not to try backing up out of something dangerous. You turn around and book it.

[Rathlord]

Regardless of arguments for and against player falling because of realism, the real cornerstone of the argument against it is that it's bad game design. For something with permadeath, you should know that when you die it's because you failed- not because RNG made you fall over at a shitty moment. That's the crux of it to me, at least.

[Doublebrain]

Totaly yes. I bet with the new 3D system to auto-create sprites much more animations will come, like zombies falling over and such things. And yea, being exhausted or tired should affect how fast you can climb over a fence. But no random falling on the ground. There should be allways a reason why something happens.

[GodWaffle]

I'm for this, I wouldn't mind having a very small chance of tripping up if exhausted, I see everyone saying that they want their death to be in their hands and not due to a completely random chance, but bear in mind that people do not ever intend to trip over, it is a random thing and we don't have control over it.  Everyone has tripped over at least once in their life so it is perfectly natural that it could happen, especially when adrenaline and panic have the better of you.

As for zombies and windows, I agree that they need a clumsier animation and possibly falling over when they climb in a window or over a fence.  I also would like it if zombies would only attempt such actions if they were chasing the player, I don't think that zombies would see a fence as an obstacle, so they would walk straight into it.  Bear in mind that when they're not chasing prey they just lumber around, so I don't think they'd all fall over a fence, they'd probably just bump into it and walk away.  Same goes for doors and windows, I don't like how zombies seem to remember that windows and doors are entrances, they should ONLY start attacking doors and windows if they'd just seen prey enter that building.

-Ben

[deprav]

But if my character is healthy ain't no way I am going to trip everywhere. 

I know this idea has been suggested many months ago and I had a more detailed reason to be against this but I understand its fundamental purpose.

 

 

haha, I think that might have been on my old suggestion thread, I was suggesting "tripping & falling" as a big probability if you ran into a packed horde because it was way too easy to do so back then (And it kinda still is, but better grabbing system would be better in my new opinion ;p )

 

Tripping and falling on the ground for no real reason would be indeed annoying, tho I'd like to see ankle-grabbing crawlers make you fall on the floor (I suggested it on my suggestion thread, with more details)

[Rathlord]

GodWaffle my response to you would be the same as I wrote above- not sure if you actually read it or not.

[Kajin]

If player tripping ever occured at all, it would need to be only a momentary speed penalty. If you trip while running, most of the forward momentum should be translated into a sort of crawling scramble. That would be more realistic while addressing concerns of bad game design since your character never actually stops moving.

[silents429]

Now if we want to impair movement, Why not make it so when you have leg injuries your movement speed is lowered?

Or for your arms your strength lowers for weapons, accuracy depending on arm, and the amount of time it takes to climb over the fence.


I know we want visual representations of being injured like blood and bandages, but you gotta have the side affects too.

[Bioradical]

With regards to the whole tripping and falling mechanic of the player character... no... just no... hell no.... NO!

Seriously dealt with enough of that playing Miasmata, I will strangle something should I have to contend with that ever again.

[EnigmaGrey]

Personally, I'd be fine with it so long as the world portrayed risks for falling: dead bodies, debris on the road .etc

But randomly? No, it has to be the fault of the player that they tripped.

[GrandPunkRailroad]

Personally, I'd be fine with it so long as the world portrayed risks for falling: dead bodies, debris on the road .etc

But randomly? No, it has to be the fault of the player that they tripped.

This is the camp into which I fall as well (no pun intended). Think of walking backwards IRL. You never do it. If you walk backwards just five steps in your home you'll totally bump into something unintended. On a flat wide open surface like a street granted, this is totally not going to trip you up, no way. But given that in the game there are small debris piles, or street cracks, or tall patches of grass. I can totally see a chance to fall, when backing into obstacles. This'd penalize backing and lean players towards the silent429 approach "I sure as hell know not to try backing out of something dangerous. I turn around and book it."

[deprav]

I think I see where you're coming from, like it's easy to backwalk > swing > backwalk > swing > etc... and take big groups of Z on your own, and if a chance of falling is added into the equation it might make it risky and make the players think twice before doing it ! (am I right?)

But imo, players would adapt and just turn around to take their distances without risking to fall, then turn again to attack the first Z incoming, and same thing again. So the "falling when walking backward" mechanic would be rendered useless pretty fast, it might get you a couple of times when you play for the first times, that's all ^^

[GrandPunkRailroad]

I think I see where you're coming from, like it's easy to backwalk > swing > backwalk > swing > etc... and take big groups of Z on your own, and if a chance of falling is added into the equation it might make it risky and make the players think twice before doing it ! (am I right?)

 

Yup, I don't know that I am fully invested in this idea. It's got potential, It'd definitely not break the game to see a zombie or two trip and fall after vaulting a fence, and might add some perception of realism(?) to zombie movement, especially over obstacles. But player falls are a whole different ball game, as loosing control of the character might lead to one's death, and that'd understandably be disappointing.

 

I was just expressing interest in fleshing these ideas out. Thanks all for the help!

[cookies1]

The only way I could see falling players is, as said before, if they are walking backwards and step on a stick or something causing them to fall. It'd be the player's fault for not checking their surroundings as well as being careless, and it'd probably be realistic too. However, it absolutely shouldn't happen every time. Not even every other time. It should be really rare so it doesn't become an annoying mechanic as well as still keeping its ability to surprise the player whenever it happens.