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Okamikurainya

Disease Overhaul

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Right now, the way disease is handled contrasts starkly with the overall complexity of the game...

My suggestion is to remove the ambiguity and turn certain Moodles into Symptoms, rather than have them as the disease themselves.

 

Symptoms:

  • Congestion:
    Congestion replaces the Cold Moodle, becoming a symptom. It functions near identically, giving the player a chance to sneeze loudly, attracting zombies. Can be aided with an equipped tissue and treated with Antihistamines.
    "Runny Nose"
    "The sniffles"
    "Congested"
    "Severe Congestion"
  • Fever:
    Fever replaces the current Sick Moodle, becoming a symptom. Each stage will increase your character's temperature by a certain amount and will cause damage on its' highest level while also lowering healing, strength and increasing the rate at which a player gets sleepy. Can be treated with Antipyretics unless it is a symptom of Zombification. Equipping a Cold Pack that has been cooled in a freezer or a bag of Frozen Peas can also help.
    "Bit of a Temperature"
    "Temperature"
    "Severe Temperature"
    "Terminal Fever"
  • Nausea:
    Nausea is the other half of the current Sick Moodle becoming a symptom in its' own right. It lowers healing, strength and speed. It can be treated with Antiemetics.
    "Bit Sick"
    "Sick"
    "Really Sick"
    "Severe Nausea"
  • Sore Throat:
    A Sore Throat is similar to Congestion, but may cause pain when eating with an increasing chance to loudly cough which may attract nearby zombies. Can be treated with Cough Syrup.
    "Scratchy Throat"
    "Painful Throat"
    "Rough Cough"
    "Severe Coughing"
  • Shivers:
    Shivering which will lower the accuracy of the player. Can be relieved with Painkillers.
    "A bit Shaky"
    "Shaky"
    "Shivering"
    "Severe Shivering"

 

While those are direct symptoms, other Moodles such as Pain would also be symptoms, directly or indirectly.

Medications:

  • Painkillers:
    Relieves Pain and Shivers. Can cause Nausea if abused.
  • Beta Blockers:
    Relieves Panic.
  • Antidepressants:
    Relieves Sadness. Can cause Anger if abused.
  • Sleeping Tablets:
    Helps you sleep. Can cause Nausea or loss of Health if abused or taken while Drunk.
  • Vitamins:
    These should boost healing and help you recover some Immunity.
  • Antibiotics:
    Speeds up healing of Colds, Pneumonia, Infection and Stomach Flu. Can cause Nausea if abused.
  • Caffeine Pills:
    Relieves Sleepiness. Can cause Shivers if abused.
  • Antihistamines:
    Relieves Congestion. Can cause Sleepiness if abused.
  • Antipyretics:
    Relieves a traditional Fever. Can cause Nausea if abused.
  • Antiemetics:
    Relieves Nausea.
  • Cough Syrup:
    Relieves a Sore Throat, may also make you Drunk if taken in large quantities.
  • Flu Vaccine Vial:
    A vial containing a Vaccine for the Flu Virus. Can be added to a syringe so that you can administer a Flu Shot. Each Vial can fill a Syringe 4 times. Taking a Flu Shot will cause the Severity of Flu to begin to decline and will provide you with a month of immunity to the Flu Virus.
  • Common Infection Vaccine Vial:
    A vial containing a Vaccine for the Infection. Can be added to a syringe so that you can administer a Common Infection Shot. Each Vial can fill a Syringe 4 times. Taking a Common Infection Shot will cause the Severity of a Common Infection to decline and will provide you with a month of immunity to the Common Infection.
  • Rabies Vaccine:
    A vial containing a Vaccine for the Rabies Virus. Can be added to a syringe so that you can administer a Rabies Shot. Each Vial Can fill a Syringe 4 times. Taking a Common Infection Shot will cure Rabies, provided you take it prior to the manifestation of symptoms, and will provide you with a month of immunity to the Rabies Virus.

 

There are a few others I'd like such as Morphine and so on that would have a chance to cause addiction, but the ones I've added are more to expand on what is present, rather than add too much new.

 

Items:

  • Pill Dispenser:
    A container with random pills inside.
  • Water bottle with Dissolved Painkiller:
    As the name suggests. The Player can dissolve up to 4 units of Painkillers into a Water Bottle, allowing for Painkiller use to be stretched out, if a bit weakened.
  • Surgical Mask:
    Surgical Masks (along with gasmasks) provide immunity to airborne diseases, such as the Flu and corpse proximity induced Infection, as long as they are at least 50% clean with no damage.
  • Hazmat Gear:
    A full set of Hazmat Gear will provide immunity to airborne diseases, such as the Flu and corpse proximity induced Infection, so long as they are undamaged.
  • Syringe:
    A medical syringe used for injecting yourself with a Vaccine. Maybe also for Addictive Drugs.
  • Empty Vial:
    Garbage item left over when adding a Vaccine to a Syringe. Can hold water.

 

Traits:

  • Strong Immune System:
    Chance of catching a disease is halved. Can go well with Iron Gut and Outdoorsman for a Robust Genetics build.
  • Weak Immune System:
    Replaces Prone To Illness. Chance of catching a disease is doubled, more likely for a wound to be infected and faster Zombification.
  • Iron Gut:
    Chance of catching Stomach Flu from food or water is halved.
  • Weak Stomach:
    Chance of catching Stomach Flu doubled.
  • Outdoorsman:
    Being wet does not weaken your Immune System. Immune to Hayfever.
  • Allergy Prone:
    Very prone to Hayfever. Hayfever gained this way bypasses Immune System Variable with there always being a 10% chance of contracting Hayfever when moving through thick Vegetation in off seasons and a 25% chance in Spring.
  • Resilient:
    Less likely for wounds to become infected and slows Zombification.
  • Asthmatic:
    40% increase in running endurance loss, 30% increase in swing endurance lost and a chance to loudly cough when Exerted.
  • Hypochondriac:
    May develop infection symptoms without being infected.
  • Easily Amused:
    Slower rate of boredom and unhappiness.
  • Depression:
    Becomes bored faster and gradually becomes sadder with time.

 

The Immune System:
The Immune System, or simply just the Immunity variable, determines the chance of becoming ill.
At 0%, you are fully healthy and won't get sick.
But any activity while Sick, Dirty, Bloody, Wet, Sleepy, Exerted, Sad, Injured or Hungry will cause it to gradually rise. At 1%, you have a 1% chance of catching a disease and so on.
Sleeping will help you recover your Immunity most of the time, however putting yourself to sleep with Sleeping Pills or Alcohol will prevent this recovery. Being well fed will also help you recover.
This variable is invisible to the player, as it is to a real person.

 

Severity:

When catching a disease, it will gradually rise in severity, before reaching a peak and lowering again in severity until the disease is gone. During this time, all you can do is treat symptoms and rest until you are better. There are 4 levels of Severity, based on when the disease's variable is at 1%-25%, 26%-50%, 51%-75% and 76%-100%.
Certain diseases, when treated with certain medications and the disease's variable reaches 0% will then be cured.

 

Nutrients:
There are many nutrients which a player will gain with a balanced diet. Lacking certain nutrients in your diet for too long will result in a Nutritional Disease. Nutritional Diseases bypass the immune system.

  • Calories:
    Calories are the main weight determining nutrient. This value must be balanced with hunger consistently, or else obesity or anorexia may sneak up on the player.
    Maximum: 3700
    Minimum: -2200
  • Carbohydrates:
    Carbohydrates are used in determining potential weight gain. This value is ignored unless the player has consumed more than 400 or 700 Carbohydrates, resulting in a multiplier of 2 or 3, respectively.
    Maximum: 1000
    Minimum: -500
  • Lipids:
    Lipids, previously called fats, are used in determining potential weight gain. This value is ignored unless the player has consumed more than 400 or 700 Lipids, resulting in a multiplier of 2 or 3, respectively.
    Maximum: 1000
    Minimum: -500
  • Proteins:
    Proteins are a determining factor in the increase and decrease of the Player's strength stat. Without the necessary proteins, the player will not be able to level up their strength. If a player consumes more than 400 Protein units, they will increase their strength in the same way as in the same manner as B40/B41. If the player consumes more than 700 Protein units, they will gain a 1.5 multiplier for strength increase. If a player's protein units falls below -250, they will start to lose strength, and reaching the minimum Protein units of -500 will result in the loss of strength with a multiplier of 2.
    Maximum: 1000
    Minimum: -500
  • Salts:
    Salts can alter the rate at which a player becomes thirsty. This value is ignored unless the player has consumed more than 400 or 700 Salts resulting in a multiplier of 2 or 3, respectively.
    Maximum: 1000
    Minimum: -500
  • Sugars:
    Sugars are used in determining potential weight gain. This value is ignored unless the player has consumed more than 400 or 700 Sugars, resulting in a multiplier of 2 or 3, respectively.
    Maximum: 1000
    Minimum: -500
  • Vitamins:
    Vitamins are essential for keeping your Immune System strong. So long as the player consumes more than 400 Vitamins, their Immunity will recover as per normal while resting or sleeping. If the Sugar unit falls below 0, their Immunity will no longer recover.
    Maximum: 500
    Minimum: -500

 

Diseases:
Diseases are visible in the Health tab when you have a certain level of First-Aid, but otherwise you'll have to guess by symptoms and circumstances.

  • Flu:
    Sometimes, Zombies, Pigs (when added) or Chickens (when added) will spawn as infected with the Flu Virus. Being within 5 tiles from an infected zombie, the infected Zombie's corpse, an infected Player, an infected Player's corpse, an infected Pig or Chicken and an infected Pig or Chicken's corpse will make you vulnerable to catching the flu. Pigs and Chickens will also be at risk of catching it.
    Symptoms are Congestion, Fever, Pain and a Sore Throat.
    After catching Flu, there is a cooldown time before you can catch it again of around a month.
    Severity 1:
    The Flu is Asymptomatic at this severity, increasing the likelihood that you will spread it to other players unwittingly.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 symptoms.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 Symptoms.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 Symptoms, risk of death without treatment.
     
  • Cold:
    A cold is an ambient bacterial infection that can be caught when being wet, hot, cold or tired. Similar to Flu but far less severe but also far quicker to show symptoms.
    Symptoms are Congestion, Fever and a Sore Throat.
    Can be directly treated with Antibiotics.
    Severity 1:
    Level 1 Congestion and Sore Throat, no Fever.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 Congestion and Sore Throat, no Fever.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 Congestion and Sore Throat, Level 1 Fever.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 Congestion and Sore Throat, Level 2 Fever.
     
  • Pneumonia:
    An ambient infection of the lungs that can be caught while Hypothermic. Similar to a Cold but far more severe.
    Symptoms are Fever, Sore Throat and Shivers.
    Can be directly treated with Antibiotics.
    Severity 1:
    Level 1 Sore Throat and Shivers, no Fever.
    Severity  2:
    Level 2 Sore Throat, Shivers and Fever.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 Sore Throat, Shivers and Fever.
    Severity 4
    Level 4 Sore Throat, Shivers and Fever. Risk of death without treatment.
     
  • Hayfever:
    Can be caught by moving through dense vegetation during Spring.
    Symptoms are Congestion and a Sore Throat.
    Can be treated directly with Antihistamines.
    Severity 1:
    Level 1 Congestion, no sore throat.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 Congestion, no Sore Throat.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 Congestion, Level 1 Sore Throat.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 Congestion, Level 2 Sore Throat.
     
  • Stomach Flu:
    An infection of the stomach lining, can be caught by eating uncooked or rotten food as well as drinking tainted water.
    Symptoms are Nausea, Fever and Shivers.
    Can be treated directly with Antibiotics.
    Severity 1:
    Level 1 Nausea, no Fever or Shivers.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 Nausea, no Fever or Shivers.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 Nausea, Fever and Shivers.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 Nausea, Fever and Shivers. Risk of Death if untreated.
     
  • Bleach Poisoning:
    Bleach poisoning is a fast onset and fatal illness caused by directly drinking Bleach. It is always Severity 4.
    Symptoms are Sore Throat, Pain, Anxiety, Shivers and gradual loss of Health.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 Symptoms. Death is certain.
     
  • Food Poisoning:
    Food Poisoning is similar to Botulism but is caught by eating Poison Berries, Poison Mushrooms or food poisoned with Bleach.
    Symptoms are Nausea, Sore Throat, Pain, Shivers and gradual loss of Health.
    Severity 1:
    Level 1 Nausea and Sore Throat, no others.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 Nausea and Sore Throat, Level 1 Pain and Shivers. No loss of Health.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 Nausea and Sore Throat, Level 2 Pain and Shivers. No loss of Health.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 Nausea, Sore Throat, Pain, Shivers and a gradual Loss of Health. Can be fatal even with treatment if health already low.
     
  • Rabies:
    Caught by being Bitten by an infected animal. It is always Fatal if not treated with a Rabies Vaccine prior to Severity 2.
    Symptoms are Anger, Stress, Weakness, Sore Throat, Agoraphobia, Pain when Drinking or Eating and Gradual Loss of Health.
    Severity 1:
    No symptoms.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 Symptoms, but no loss of Health.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 Symptoms, but no loss of Health.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 symptoms and gradual loss of Health. Death is certain.
     
  • Infection:
    Caught by not properly treating a wound or spending a lot of time around corpses while your immune system is compromised.
    Symptoms are Nausea, Pain, Shivers and Fever. If playing as a Hypochondriac, the symptoms are identical to Zombification if contracted from a Zombie Scratch instead but not always fatal.
    Can be directly treated with Antibiotics or applying a sterilizing agent to the infected wound.
    Severity 1:
    Level 1 Nausea, no other symptoms.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 Symptoms.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 Symptoms.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 Symptoms. Can be fatal if left untreated.
     
  • Scurvy:
    Scurvy is a Nutritional Disease that bypasses the Immune System. Each day a player goes without the necessary Vitamin intake from food or supplements will cause a variable to increase, once the variable is above 50%, the player will have caught Scurvy. Taking in the proper amount of Vitamins will lower the variable and if the variable falls below 50%, the Severity will begin to dissipate.
    Symptoms are Shivers, Pain and gradual loss of Health.
    Can be directly treated with food rich in Vitamins or Vitamins medication.
    Severity 1:
    Level 1 Shivers and Pain, no loss of Health.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 Shivers and Pain, no loss of Health.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 Shivers and Pain, no loss of Health.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 Shivers and Pain and the gradual loss of Health. Can be fatal if left untreated.
     
  • Anemia:
    Anemia is a Nutritional Disease that bypasses the Immune System. Each day a player goes without the necessary Protein intake from food or supplements will cause a variable to increase, once the variable is above 50%, the player will have caught Anemia. Taking in the proper amount of Proteins will lower the variable and if the variable falls below 50%, the Severity will begin to dissipate.
    Symptoms are Sleepiness, Weakness, Decreased Spatial Awareness, lowered item transfer rate and the gradual loss of Health.
    Can be directly treated with food rich in Proteins.
    Severity 1:
    Level 1 symptoms, no loss of Health.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 symptoms, no loss of Health.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 symptoms, no loss of Health.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 symptoms and the gradual loss of Health. Can be fatal if left untreated.
     
  • Thyroditis:
    Thyroditis is a Nutritional Disease that bypasses the Immune System. Each day a player goes without the necessary Salt intake from food or supplements will cause a variable to increase, once the variable is above 50%, the player will have caught Thyroditis. Taking in the proper amount of Saltss will lower the variable and if the variable falls below 50%, the Severity will begin to dissipate.
    Symptoms are Sore Throat, Shivers and the gradual loss of Health.
    Can be directly treated with food rich in Salts.
    Severity 1:
    Level 1 symptoms, no loss of Health.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 symptoms, no loss of Health.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 symptoms, no loss of Health.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 symptoms and the gradual loss of Health. Can be fatal if left untreated.
     
  • Zombification:
    Caught by being Bitten or Scratched by a Zombie. It bypasses Immune system, with Bites always resulting in being infected and a 25% chance of being infected by a Scratch.
    Symptoms are Stress, Sadness, Nausea, Untreatable Fever and the eventual death and rising as a Zombie.
    Severity 1:
    Level 1 Stress, no other Symptoms.
    Severity 2:
    Level 2 Stress, Level 1 Sadness, no other Symptoms.
    Severity 3:
    Level 3 Stress, Nausea, Sadness and Fever.
    Severity 4:
    Level 4 Stress, Nausea, Sadness and Fever. Death is certain.

 

Abilities:

Players with high First-Aid or medical related Occupations/Traits will be able to deduce illnesses and administer medication directly to another Player, so Doctors and Nurses will have even more use in Multiplayer.

 

And that's that! Did I miss anything? What did y'all think? :)

Edited by Okamikurainya

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Compared to the complexity of other systems, upcoming and implemented, I've felt the current medical system is not as indepth as it could be. This proposed system I feel, even if half implemented, would improve it.

 

If only because it'd make Medical professions and/or medical traits a stronger pick if it came with the ability to diagnose illnesses. 

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7 hours ago, Burger_Time said:

Would be also good to have some antivirals to help treat viral diseases like flu and Anti-rabid vaccines.

 

Other than that, all of this is pretty freakin' great.

 

Normal Viral diseases ( cold )  you don't give Anti Virals ( unless they are suffering from an immunicompromised state  )

You generally only give it in cases like Herpes \ Encephalitis \ etc.

 

Rabies requires hospitalization it isn't something you treat walking around. It is an unnecessary mechanic that has no game play value unless it was a management style game.

 

General treatment for standard viral diseases is just supportive therapy. 

 

Edited by ZombieHunter

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14 hours ago, MrBlue said:

I like it. This is an aspect of the apocalypse that isn't often explored. Will there be ways to lower the likelihood of a Doctor contracting the disease from other players? Facemasks and what not.

Facemasks is a brilliant idea! As for Doctors having a lower likelihood... You could maybe tie the immune system to the First-Aid skill, but it wouldn't really be significant, having it more down to genetics and care.
Adding Facemasks in now. ^_^
 

 

17 hours ago, Burger_Time said:

Would be also good to have some antivirals to help treat viral diseases like flu and Anti-rabid vaccines.

 

Other than that, all of this is pretty freakin' great.


Vaccines would be nice, they'd simply give you a temporary immunity I imagine and not heal you, but I didn't want to go that indepth at first while I was still studying up on some of the ideas.
During the 90s, most antiviral useage was aimed at Herpes with use for Flu being far less common due to flu-shots being a thing people weren't all conspiracy crazy about back then and given in schools. I'll do some more research though.
 

 

10 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

Normal Viral diseases ( cold )  you don't give Anti Virals ( unless they are suffering from an immunicompromised state  )

You generally only give it in cases like Herpes \ Encephalitis \ etc.

 

Rabies requires hospitalization it isn't something you treat walking around. It is an unnecessary mechanic that has no game play value unless it was a management style game.

 

General treatment for standard viral diseases is just supportive therapy. 

 

Indeed, all you could do is treat the symptoms and make yourself as comfortable as possible.
 

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On 10/26/2019 at 5:55 PM, Okamikurainya said:

Shivers:
Shivering which will lower the accuracy of the player. Can be relieved with Painkillers.

 

Pain killers for shivering? Maybe Beta Blockers - but Pain killers? 

Only time pain killers are going to stop shivering is the person is suffering from an addiction to pain killers and suffering withdrawal symptoms.

Otherwise they have a serious injury and preventing them from full functionality of the limb.

 

On 10/26/2019 at 5:55 PM, Okamikurainya said:

Symptoms are Congestion, Fever and a Sore Throat.
Can be directly treated with Antibiotics.

 

 

Also you would never want to treat an ordinary cold with Antibiotics - especially since most of them are Viral not bacterial.

Mostly supportive therapy and decongestants.

 

On 10/26/2019 at 5:55 PM, Okamikurainya said:

Stomach Flu (Botulism):
An infection of the stomach lining, can be caught by eating uncooked or rotten food as well as drinking tainted water.
Symptoms are Nausea, Fever and Shivers.
Can be treated directly with Antibiotics.

 

You are more likely to get Salmonella or E.coli infection than Botulism. 

Rate of Botulism is only 200 cases per year.. in the U.S  there are almost 200 million people in the U.S in the 90s.

More importantly you don't treat Botulism with Antibiotics unless it was from injury, you would give Anti-Toxin.

 

On 10/26/2019 at 5:55 PM, Okamikurainya said:

Rabies:
Caught by being Bitten by an infected animal. It is always Fatal.
Symptoms are Anger, Stress, Weakness, Sore Throat, Agoraphobia, Pain when Drinking or Eating and Gradual Loss of Health.
Severity 1:
Level 1 Symptoms, but no loss of Health.
Severity 2:
Level 2 Symptoms, but no loss of Health.
Severity 3:
Level 3 Symptoms, but no loss of Health.
Severity 4:
Level 4 symptoms and gradual loss of Health. Death is certain.

 

The Muscle spams are so severe in Rabies that it is not something you even are able to move with. 

Once symptoms start to appear you are bedridden and good as dead. 

The persons body will literally start bending from the severe muscle spasms. 

 

It has no gameplay value. 

 

 

 

Edited by ZombieHunter

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Updated with some Nutritional Diseases.
And I'm aware Anemia has to do with Iron and not Protein, but there's little reason to add a separate Nutrition type related to meat when one is enough in that case and the Protein deficiencies don't really lend themselves to the current game's meta.

 

2 hours ago, Geras said:

I'd like the zombie virus to not be obvious to the player.

The way I've written it up is the same way it is in the game right now. Taking Hypochondria as a trait is the best way to make it even more ambiguous.

 

1 hour ago, ZombieHunter said:

Pain killers for shivering? Maybe Beta Blockers - but Pain killers? 

Only time pain killers are going to stop shivering is the person is suffering from an addiction to pain killers and suffering withdrawal symptoms.

Otherwise they have a serious injury and preventing them from full functionality of the limb.

The shivering listed is an inflammatory response, not anxiety. There's a separate moodle for that already. That said, I could probably stand to think of better wording for it...

 

1 hour ago, ZombieHunter said:

Also you would never want to treat an ordinary cold with Antibiotics - especially since most of them are Viral not bacterial.

Mostly supportive therapy and decongestants.

This is false, the opposite is actually true. Flu is often misrepresented as a cold.
I know Colds are often used as a colloquial catch all, especially in America, but the design philosophy here is to separate it from the different and contagious "Flu".
 

 

1 hour ago, ZombieHunter said:

You are more likely to get Salmonella or E.coli infection than Botulism. 

Rate of Botulism is only 200 cases per year.. in the U.S  there are almost 200 million people in the U.S in the 90s.

More importantly you don't treat Botulism with Antibiotics unless it was from injury, you would give Anti-Toxin.

You're right, I'll remove the "(Botulism)" and leave it as the all encompassing "Stomach Flu".

 

1 hour ago, ZombieHunter said:

The Muscle spams are so severe in Rabies that it is not something you even are able to move with. 

Once symptoms start to appear you are bedridden and good as dead. 

The persons body will literally start bending from the severe muscle spasms. 

 

It has no gameplay value.

You just stated the gameplay value. You are as good as dead.
Rabies is a major threat in Kentucky and that will get somewhat more precarious as the civilized world crumbles.
The game is trying to kill you, there ain't a happy ending.
Every bite, whether Zombie or Animal is a major risk.
Of course not every animal is going to be a rabid mad thing, in game it may be in the 10% and lower chances, but you shouldn't be trying to tank an attack from anything, in fact it should be punished severely. With Zombies it's with the Zombification, with animals it's Rabies.

Edited by Okamikurainya
Just clarifying some stuff because I was vague.

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4 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

This is false, the opposite is actually true. Flu is often misrepresented as a cold.
I know Colds are often used as a colloquial catch all, especially in America, but the design philosophy here is to separate it from the different and contagious "Flu".

 

Design philosophy it self is wrong.

Cold and Flu are both Colloquial terms. 

 

We name the disease based on the type of infection it is. 

Things like Strep Throat, Streptococcus Pneumonia, Pneumococcus Pneumonia, Etc.

 

But for sake of gameplay design the philosophy should be based on "stage" and not blind treatment.

If the early symptoms can be treated with supportive care - it should end at that.

 

If it keeps progressing - you would give antibiotics. 

That would be a more ideal non medically oriented order of operations in dealing with the cold.

 

That would reduce the number of icons players need to remember.

 

4 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

You just stated the gameplay value. You are as good as dead.
Rabies is a major threat in Kentucky and that will get somewhat more precarious as the civilized world crumbles.
The game is trying to kill you, there ain't a happy ending.
Every bite, whether Zombie or Animal is a major risk.

 

The chance of Rabies it self is extremely rare. You have a higher chance of getting Tetanus with a bite than rabies. That is why we give Tetanus shot every 10 years. 

In my lifetime I have seen 1 Rabies case, in my professors life time he saw 3 cases. 

In my Aunt and Uncle who are both Biome Researchers who works in Forests \ Jungles \ Swamps - they have seen 2.

 

Unlike Botulinism which has 200 cases per year. Rabies is 3 per year in U.S.

 

Tetanus should replace Rabies. As it is easily treatable and Tetanus shots are found everywhere, schools, hospitals, clinics. 

Edited by ZombieHunter

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6 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Design philosophy it self is wrong.

Cold and Flu are both Colloquial terms.

Flu is an abbreviation for the literal Influenza Virus, a real virus that exists, while a Cold is a colloquial term for any number of upper respiratory tract infections. Though you're right, folk do use Flu incorrectly a lot of the time.

 

6 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

But for sake of gameplay design the philosophy should be based on "stage" and not blind treatment.

If the early symptoms can be treated with supportive care - it should end at that.

 

If it keeps progressing - you would give antibiotics. 

That would be a more ideal non medically oriented order of operations in dealing with the cold.

 

That would reduce the number of icons players need to remember.

For gameplay, having a catch all treatment for a disease that would be more common than others and can be caught ambiently lowers the amount of micro management. You can still treat individual symptoms, as I have stated above. I disagree with you here.
 

6 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

The chance of Rabies it self is extremely rare. You have a higher chance of getting Tetanus with a bite than rabies. That is why we give Tetanus shot every 10 years. 

In my lifetime I have seen 1 Rabies case, in my professors life time he saw 3 cases. 

In my Aunt and Uncle who are both Biome Researchers who works in Forests \ Jungles \ Swamps - they have seen 2.

 

Unlike Botulinism which has 200 cases per year. Rabies is 3 per year in U.S.

 

Tetanus should replace Rabies. As it is easily treatable and Tetanus shots are found everywhere, schools, hospitals, clinics. 

That is in a world where a majority of people are not directly interacting with wildlife, like they would be forced to in the post-zombie-apocalypse. Rabies cases are mostly when a rabid animal happens to wander into civilization and bites someone or their pet which then may bite a person. The amount of incidences will go way up when large portions of survivors move into the wilderness.
I live in a rural town and we have a case of Rabies in the stray animal population at least once or twice a year. This is Africa though, so there's that.
That said, Tetanus is a great idea for an additional disease! Thanks!

Just realized that Tetanus wouldn't be functionally different in the game's meta from the Common Infection, so I just left it at that.

Added Vaccines in the Medications and added Syringe in the Items. :3

Edited by Okamikurainya

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15 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

Flu is an abbreviation for the literal Influenza Virus, a real virus that exists, while a Cold is a colloquial term for any number of upper respiratory tract infections. Though you're right, folk do use Flu incorrectly a lot of the time.

 

So are you saying "Stomach Flu" is stomach influenza? 

While it can be caused by Influenza - Gastroenteritis ( again more common ) can be caused by many things. That is why we deal with the disease based on the symptoms when we don't know the cause. 

 

In a non medical environment the person does not know the cause - especially in this case establishing cause is usually unnecessary unless severe. 

You would instead break it down to symptoms like "Stomach Ache" with associated "Diarrhea" "Vomiting" or "Stomach Ache with Heart Burn ( Gastric Reflux ).  Again the disease it self is not important - but simply having different symptoms and different treatments is more than adequate. 

 

As well as having those symptoms having severity and treating it accordingly before it gets worse. 

 

15 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

For gameplay, having a catch all treatment for a disease that would be more common than others and can be caught ambiently lowers the amount of micro management. You can still treat individual symptoms, as I have stated above. I disagree with you here.

 

You literally created a giant post dealing with micromanagement of 20+ diseases and conditions. 

 

Early Treatment and Prevention is the hallmark of modern medicine. 

Especially in the zombie apocalypse where you will have limited resources you don't want to waste things unnecessarily.  That is why you treat early symptoms differently than actual diseases. 

 

When some one starts showing signs of early Diabetes you don't suddenly put them on insulin and call it a day. You change their diet and exercise to decrease the workload on their pancreas. If some one has a a hairline fracture you don't open the leg and drop a metal brace and screws on it. You cast it and tell them to let that limb rest. 

 

The irony of course being why have 30+ diseases that do the same thing if the treatment is the same, and claim it is less micromanagement. 

 

15 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

That is in a world where a majority of people are not directly interacting with wildlife, like they would be forced to in the post-zombie-apocalypse. Rabies cases are mostly when a rabid animal happens to wander into civilization and bites someone or their pet which then may bite a person. The amount of incidences will go way up when large portions of survivors move into the wilderness.
I live in a rural town and we have a case of Rabies in the stray animal population at least once or twice a year. This is Africa though, so there's that.
That said, Tetanus is a great idea for an additional disease! Thanks!

Just realized that Tetanus wouldn't be functionally different in the game's meta from the Common Infection, so I just left it at that.

 

 

1. Not all animals are infected with rabies. Simply being bit by a wild animals will not give it to you. 

2. The reason why Rabies incidence in U.S is low is not because we have very little interaction with wild animals. It is because so few of our animals have rabies. We generally kill them and burn the body the second anything is suspected of carrying the disease. In other words we work heavily on prevention of spread in the U.S 

3. Africia and Many 3rd world countries on the other hand is not a country known for prevention due to remote villages and their beliefs of harming certain animals. Essentially you have protected "focal" points that have been around for years which is not being systematically hunted down and eradicated.

 

Take Swine Flu for example, the reason it spreads so quickly now is because we cage animals in close proximity with one another. In Rabies case the animals not only do they need to be in close proximity they need to essentially fight each other - spread the virus. The resulting victim needs to survive the fight and be able to spread it to multiple creatures. 

 

Or to put it simply, Every Native American would have died from Rabies in that case before Europeans Landed on U.S Shores. 

 

Edited by ZombieHunter

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12 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

So are you saying "Stomach Flu" is stomach influenza? 

While it can be caused by Influenza - Gastroenteritis ( again more common ) can be caused by many things. That is why we deal with the disease based on the symptoms when we don't know the cause.

I'm saying you're reading into it too much. The two are defined, a bacterial cold vs a viral flu. Separated by vector and treatment for gameplay.

 

12 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

As well as having those symptoms having severity and treating it accordingly before it gets worse.

Good thing that's exactly what I suggest. :)

 

12 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

You literally created a giant post dealing with micromanagement of 20+ diseases and conditions.

And thus easy management of the more common ones will be a huge boon. :)
 

12 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

1. Not all animals are infected with rabies. Simply being bit by a wild animals will not give it to you.

Duh. I think you may have misconstrued the idea that all animals that bite will give you Rabies. If so, then that's my bad, I'll make it clearer. I most likely got a little mixed up with this and my Animal suggestion a while back that goes into more depth on animal diseases:
https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25672-animal-fear-index-and-general-animal-ideas/

I'll clarify it in the OP now. ^_^
That said, I did state to you directly:

 

On 11/1/2019 at 3:45 PM, Okamikurainya said:

Of course not every animal is going to be a rabid mad thing, in game it may be in the 10% and lower chances, but you shouldn't be trying to tank an attack from anything, in fact it should be punished severely. With Zombies it's with the Zombification, with animals it's Rabies.

But yeah, again, it might be misinterpreted as having a 10% chance and lower from every animal... So I'll fix it in the opening post.

But Rabies is a, relatively, prevalent Kentucky disease, a threatening disease that exists and I'd be remiss to forgo including it.
https://nkyhealth.org/individual-or-family/healthy-life/animal-bites-and-rabies/

 

Edit:
No, I clearly state in the OP that it is caught by being bitten by an infected animal. 😕
So no changes necessary there.

 

Edited by Okamikurainya

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17 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

Good thing that's exactly what I suggest.

But you are suggesting it - but not actually doing it. 

What you are doing is listing diseases and symptoms. 

 

There really doesn't need to be disases at all to begin with - because most diseases are not going to get confirmation without a trained medical professional. Nor would it add any value to the game.

 

That is why many games have simple alternatives like

Back Ache, Headache, Fever 

Then do simple treatments based on the severity. 

 

17 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

And thus easy management of the more common ones will be a huge boon

 

There is no point in having 50 diseases if only the symptoms in the end of the day matter. 

A disease is a combination of symptoms with specific treatment.

 

If there is no specific treatment all there is only the symptom and disease is irrelevant.

 

If I am supposed to recognize specific combination of symptoms to formulate a treatment it is a quite a different situation.

 

Take Bodypain + Fever - most often associated is viral fever.

vs

Headache + Fever ( most often sinusitis ) 

 

In your case you would give antibiotics for both simply because fever exists.

In reality the first one is viral and antibiotics is not needed. 

 

In the example above - disease association is important.

In what you are listing, - there is no need add diseases only symptoms. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

But you are suggesting it - but not actually doing it. 

What you are doing is listing diseases and symptoms.

That's not all I'm doing... It feels like you've skipped 90% of my post. 😕
 

5 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

There really doesn't need to be disases at all to begin with - because most diseases are not going to get confirmation without a trained medical professional. Nor would it add any value to the game.

100% disagree, but then again of course I disagree since I made the suggestion in the first place.
Disease is one of the most dangerous factors of the apocalypse, it always will be, and thus is important in PZ. It adds flavour and much needed danger to the post game, something desperately needed.
That's a lot of value.
 

5 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

If there is no specific treatment all there is only the symptom and disease is irrelevant.

That couldn't be further from the truth.
 

5 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

If I am supposed to recognize specific combination of symptoms to formulate a treatment it is a quite a different situation.
(snip)

You then go to state exactly what I suggested while saying I didn't suggest it... 😓
Please, just read through the opening post.

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Rather hypocritical @ZombieHunter to try and tell someone their ideas aren't necessary when you yourself post a whole ton stuff that'd fit that description. Between this and  the racking posts, I really don't know what to do with it.

 

Maybe it's time to take a break from the suggestions section for a while.

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8 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Rather hypocritical @ZombieHunter to try and tell someone their ideas aren't necessary when you yourself post a whole ton stuff that'd fit that description. Between this and  the racking posts, I really don't know what to do with it.

 

Maybe it's time to take a break from the suggestions section for a while.

 

I am not saying the idea isn't necessary, I am saying there are unnecessary redundancies.

 

Of course in Hypocrisy there isn't a better example than you is there?

You complain my suggestions are not "realistic" - now you argue when I suggest corrections to make them realistic.

 

You seem to want the cake and eat it too. 

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2 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

You seem to want the cake and eat it too. 

No, I want someone that'll google before posting, really.

 

You know, not get into a pissing match because they think a "rack" is a place you store a bullet on a gun or that because a "stomach flu" exists, the word "flu" can mean either bacterial or viral infection because, uh. Something! How does the Spanish Flu stuff even make sense in that context? Same goes for period specific things.

 

Basic enough request, I feel, that shouldn't require hundreds and hundreds of words over multiple posts to correct or address. Getting snippy with someone else just because I've attempted to talk with you about these things in the past is by no means appropriate or warranted, even if you feel I'm a hypocrite over "realism." 

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yeah, english is not the best language to use in the medical area. especially the common expressions. flu is a maxi word that somehow indicates basicly every attack from an external microorganism, which doesn't make sense in medical terms. 

don't get me wrong, every language has common misconceptions about certain fields, but when okami said that technically flu is the short form of influenza, he was right. it's just that the people use flu improperly to refer to everything. influenza is viral and that is common knowledge. i like the suggestion overall and posted just to help ease out a little bit of the confusion. 

for anyone wondering, when you get a viral disease you usually wait it out, no real cure. medications for a viral disease usually work on symptoms like fever, to prevent them to get out of control. 

vaccines are a thing but it's not very realistic for them to be stocked for long, also you want to take them before you get sick, otherwise stuff gets too complicated. 

they also kinda break the gameplay because a vaccine basicly renders you immune to that disease so people would just prioritize those and the doctor will be useless again. 

 

a bacterial disease can be cured with antibiotics, which usually means to be lucky enough to get the right antibiotic for your specific disease. of course it gets way more complicated than that but for the sake of gameplay it would be best to use a general antibiotic item like the one we already have for avery bacterial disease. 

 

i don't know what to think about rabid animals, on one side it is true that they are realistically very rare. on the other hand we have gameplay, where players shouldn't be so happy to get bitten from animals, period. the thing is melee players will mostly always need to get in range so you either add a whole system where they can get close but somehow prevent the damage, or avoid rabid completely. i mean, it's hard even to imagine ideas because we have no clue how the animal system will actually play out. i remember someone complaining about the combat system a couple weeks before iwbums and lemmy told them to at least wait and try it

Edited by Livio Persemprio

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4 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

i don't know what to think about rabid animals, on one side it is true that they are realistically very rare. on the other hand we have gameplay, where players shouldn't be so happy to get bitten from animals, period. the thing is melee players will mostly always need to get in range so you either add a whole system where they can get close but somehow prevent the damage, or avoid rabit completely. i mean, it's hard even to imagine ideas because we have no clue how the animal system will actually play out. i remember someone complaining about the combat system a couple weeks before iwbums and lemmy told them to at least wait and try it

I think the best possible option is to limit it to the most common types of animals which we associate rabies with, and even then to have it rare within those groups.
I think bite and scratch protection from clothes will also play a big part for protection from animals, as well as from zombies...

I also think that the amount of hostile animals will be relatively low... In my previous animal suggestion I listed the various animals you'd expect to find in Kentucky and most wouldn't actually aggro, and would rather flee from the player wherever possible... Heck, even the ones that would aggro would probably realistically flee rather.

If an animal is coming at you as if it were something from The Elder Scrolls bestiary, then you'd already have a good guess that it may have something wrong with it and know that you may have to take a vaccine just to be safe.
That could present an interesting scenario actually... Could the animal's randomly generated temperament have made it more likely to bite at you relatively unprovoked, or could it have been rabid? Do you risk taking the vaccine when it could have been harmless and so waste the rare and valuable item, or do you leave it and end up beyond recovery?

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10 minutes ago, Okamikurainya said:

I think the best possible option is to limit it to the most common types of animals which we associate rabies with, and even then to have it rare within those groups.
I think bite and scratch protection from clothes will also play a big part for protection from animals, as well as from zombies...

I also think that the amount of hostile animals will be relatively low... In my previous animal suggestion I listed the various animals you'd expect to find in Kentucky and most wouldn't actually aggro, and would rather flee from the player wherever possible... Heck, even the ones that would aggro would probably realistically flee rather.

If an animal is coming at you as if it were something from The Elder Scrolls bestiary, then you'd already have a good guess that it may have something wrong with it and know that you may have to take a vaccine just to be safe.
That could present an interesting scenario actually... Could the animal's randomly generated temperament have made it more likely to bite at you relatively unprovoked, or could it have been rabid? Do you risk taking the vaccine when it could have been harmless and so waste the rare and valuable item, or do you leave it and end up beyond recovery?

i like the general idea of animals being carrier of illness so that you don't just charge at them while screaming death. 

most of the specific scenarios are subject to become obsolete but mostly i don't see it working the way it is suggested right now, like why would you not take a vaccine the moment you find it? 

there's no waste involved, you just become immune to that specific disease (again, oversimplified version, but this is no place to get too technical). 

also a vaccine should be extra rare, so most of your games you would just be attacked by an aggressive animal without any way to prevent it. 

though on the other side, i do like a lot the idea of an animal being overly aggressive due to rabis, would give a nice touch to the gameplay

 

edit: just went reading the post again, there is a small misconception : you don't get a vaccine after a bite, you take it in advance and it renders you immune

Edited by Livio Persemprio

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4 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

i like the general idea of animals being carrier of illness so that you don't just charge at them while screaming death. 

most of the specific scenarios are subject to become obsolete but mostly i don't see it working the way it is suggested right now, like why would you not take a vaccine the moment you find it?

For gameplay purposes, I suggested that the vaccine would last for a month. You could very well take it right away and have immunity for the period of that month, if you find more than that then you could keep a constant monthly string of "boosters" going to keep you immune. But in the case you only find the one vial and syringe, that's 4 uses and I believe and have seen that people, myself included, like to hoard medication in games. Just look at the memes of folk slogging inventories full of health and mana potions they never use but keep just in case. 😂
Anyhow, this gets even more risky in multiplayer when you may need to share with a group. "Is it worth it? You don't know it was rabid, man. We only have the one vial."
 

10 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

edit: just went reading the post again, there is a small misconception : you don't get a vaccine after a bite, you take it in advance and it renders you immune

Rabies vaccines are actually most commonly administered post-bite and the effects don't last forever. In reality antibodies may persist in the body for years, but I'd suggest it be simplified. That said, it's also perfectly valid if the rabies vaccine would give permanent immunity in game, I just don't think it makes for good gameplay.

Flu vaccinations can require yearly shots, or even more, as the influenza virus is highly mutagenic and can change to attach in a totally different way. Heck, a flu vaccination can fail if you simply leave the region and get exposed to flu from far away.

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