Getting serious about "Late-Game Concerns" - Something to consider.

[Magic Mark]

TL;DR This thread highlights the need for end-game novelty things to work on, and generally stuff for late-game players to work on once survival is generally 'taken care of'. Either way there will be players who 'get to that point' no matter how the difficulty is tweaked, so please consider that when reading over this thread. This thread is not about difficulty and is not to be associated with such.

 

This is not an 'idea compilation', this is a general point of view on late-game topics that I feel the devs should consider outside of the regular old 'survival' aspect of the game.

 

Introduction

 

Now, I'm going to level with all of you. This game, for the average person that picks it up and plays it for the first time, surviving a year is not exactly feasible.

 

However, for the people that put hours in and out for this game - the line there shifts as you get used to what you are playing.

 

You get your routine down, you get your base together, your group together. You build walls. You get patrols. You find what food and water source you plan to rely on. You get your character multi-talented and versed in various survival methods. You can live independently. You are in the process of rebuilding a community. All of a sudden, you realize you are 2 years in and you realize that you aren't entirely sure what you can work for.

 

However, that's where I think this game can improve on. Outside of general defense, PVP, survival, preservation - the game lacks in stuff to strive for once you can take care of yourself in a routinely manner.

 

To be clear, this is not a discussion about difficulty. You guys are on the right track in that department. This is a discussion about things you can afford to work on once you get well-off. Stuff for late-game players to strive for.

 

I'm talking about players finally having the time to worry about cleaning up the place. I'm not talking about mopping up blood after a fight. I'm talking about dealing with those cracks in the walls. I'm talking about maybe making a flower garden. I'm talking about a way to get your lights back on without a stockpile of gasoline.

 

Topics to Consider.

 

Decaying World.

 

Already you can cut your grass. That's great. But you need to be able to prevent your safe, untouched home from looking like it came out of the Last of Us.

 

Currently, ingame, it does not take as anywhere close to as long as it realistically should for vegetation to take over. One year in real life may be enough time for your front yard to look like your average field, but it's nowhere near enough time for your walls to crack, and your hardwood floors to break apart.

 

My proposal:

At the very least, have a method of prevention to stop sturdy walls and floors from cracking.

 

Decaying floors and walls realistically need to take years - decades - to get to the level they reach in 6 months ingame. Anyone who has lived in the same house for more than a decade can confirm that they likely never had to replace their brick walls because cracks never randomly started appearing. Hardwood floors especially are durable.

 

Proper flooring and tile shouldn't crack up in that short a period that it currently does. Maybe link the model change to actual damage and wear more than it is a time-related thing?

 

Balance:

Sure, you could say that if you didn't make it something that happens soon, most players would not see the change at all. However the growth of removable vegetation should cover that front.

 

Worn-out, attacked homes should show the decay, not maintained ones that don't even have zed in them.

 

As this idea is not entirely linked to survival, it is important to note that people will work towards something they can stand back and feel proud of.

 

Multiple Ways to Keep the Lights On.

 

Gas-powered generators, in their current state, are very finite in function. 10 or so gas cans filled to the brim, storage difficulty aside, aren't enough to keep the generator going on a long-term scale. And when the power dies, so does the pumps.

 

My proposal:

Siphoning gas out of tanks. Renewable energy.

 

There has been discussion of Solar Panels as a realistic possibility. If you have the experience and can figure out where the solar panels would be in the 90s, having a small fleet of these could potentially be your answer to keeping the lights on months after you get set up and the zed population gets down. 

 

Another option is to go with siphoning, as suggested in a previous thread. It would be a good way to get gas later on, as it would be abundant in the station tanks with the amount of daily drivers tanking downward in the case of an apocalypse.

 

Balance:

Consider this, there can and will be players who get into the 'years' category of survival and get to a point where zed might not even be considered a threat. And there will be players who drain all of the gas out of everything. Some players play with zed respawn turned off as well, they should be considered in this as well.

 

From the get-go when the power turns off, this shouldn't be an easy thing to just prop up. But it would give late-game players something to work for. Tank siphoning should require time and effort to do, and much more so for renewable energy. A single solar panel couldn't power a fridge if you tied it to a loom and whipped it, but a fleet of them might. So there is the time and effort needed there to make a setup work.

 

Keep in mind that electricity for the most part is considered a luxury in the survival world, not necessary but it is something that people look at as a reminder of society.

 

Planting.

 

Outside of crops, we should look at the ability to plant trees and flowers. Now these things take time to grow, so this would be a 'novelty' thing rather than a way to make surviving easier by any means.

 

Proposal:

Plant pretty flowers to make the place look nice. Plant trees, for either visuals for your backyard, or to help keep the forest thick.

 

Balance:

This should not be something that is to be taken as 'grow your own wood supply' by any means. The length of time required for trees to grow should be a long while, far too long for it to be a calculated 'easy way' for wood. Most of the intention here is for visuals, making an elaborate garden could give late-game players another thing to look forward to doing.

 

---

 

...More topics will come to this thread as this gets discussed...

 

So, what do you guys think?

 

Something for late-game survivors to work for.

 

Hopefully I represented my point in a proper manner, I am a tad tired at the time of writing this.

[Jack Bower]

I like pretty flowers.

[Blasted_Taco]

I like pretty flowers.

 

I agree with you.

[Adamiks]

I would like to see a way to build a real city with everything what you need - electircy, water, maybe even real traps (turrets... maybe.... No, this don't fit) and a way to produce ammo/guns/armor (btw i would like clothing in the game).

 

Or... maybe... Storyline! For example our hero can search for kind of cure (but on the end there could be no cure) or at least info about zeds etc.

[Blasted_Taco]

I would like to see a way to build a real city with everything what you need - electircy, water, maybe even real traps (turrets... maybe.... No, this don't fit) and a way to produce ammo/guns/armor (btw i would like clothing in the game).

 

Or... maybe... Storyline! For example our hero can search for kind of cure (but on the end there could be no cure) or at least info about zeds etc.

 

Man i am not sure if you are begin sarcastic here or not.

[lerk]

Good post! I already suggested "making" gas but simpion is an good idea! I really never take these dam generators to home, if i dont run from the begining to the gasstation or without lootrespawn.

[Magic Mark]

I would like to see a way to build a real city with everything what you need - electircy, water, maybe even real traps (turrets... maybe.... No, this don't fit) and a way to produce ammo/guns/armor (btw i would like clothing in the game).

 

Or... maybe... Storyline! For example our hero can search for kind of cure (but on the end there could be no cure) or at least info about zeds etc.

I'm not talking about having a super OP setup with real weapons, I'm talking about simply having more to work on rather than scavenging gas and painting home-made walls late game.

 

As it stands, there is no way to prevent your house from looking like a run-down piece of crap less than a year into gameplay. If you already have survival figured out, and your house is safe, maybe there should be an effort put forth to help yourself at least keep something presentable.

[Nightmaster]

A single word = Biofuel

 

It was an idea back at the 80s because of the petroleo crisis and you can make alchool from corn easily.

 

alchool based generators do exist since the late 70s by the way...

 

just my two cents

[Adamiks]

 

I would like to see a way to build a real city with everything what you need - electircy, water, maybe even real traps (turrets... maybe.... No, this don't fit) and a way to produce ammo/guns/armor (btw i would like clothing in the game).

 

Or... maybe... Storyline! For example our hero can search for kind of cure (but on the end there could be no cure) or at least info about zeds etc.

I'm not talking about having a super OP setup with real weapons, I'm talking about simply having more to work on rather than scavenging gas and painting home-made walls late game.

 

As it stands, there is no way to prevent your house from looking like a run-down piece of crap less than a year into gameplay. If you already have survival figured out, and your house is safe, maybe there should be an effort put forth to help yourself at least keep something presentable.

 

To be honest i wouldn't play more than 2-5 hours with flowers and trees added...

[Magic Mark]

 

 

I would like to see a way to build a real city with everything what you need - electircy, water, maybe even real traps (turrets... maybe.... No, this don't fit) and a way to produce ammo/guns/armor (btw i would like clothing in the game).

 

Or... maybe... Storyline! For example our hero can search for kind of cure (but on the end there could be no cure) or at least info about zeds etc.

I'm not talking about having a super OP setup with real weapons, I'm talking about simply having more to work on rather than scavenging gas and painting home-made walls late game.

 

As it stands, there is no way to prevent your house from looking like a run-down piece of crap less than a year into gameplay. If you already have survival figured out, and your house is safe, maybe there should be an effort put forth to help yourself at least keep something presentable.

 

To be honest i wouldn't play more than 2-5 hours with flowers and trees added...

 

I know for a damn fact that other people would. Making your own flower bed and stuff like that. Best part is, it's doable with the current system.

 

I'm surprised you would even say that.

[Adamiks]

For building flowers beds i could play in Minecraft with mods or in Terraria or in Starbound. PZ isn't that type for game for me. I would like to see more advanced "zombie see, zombie is coming" system, like for example even campfire will can result in horde after surviving let's say 1 year. It's just hilarious how zombie react on gunshot (at least 2 big hordes) and how on campfire and cooking. I would also like to see a new type of gameplay like "zombie defence" or something like that, that you can choose even when playing. This would bo so cool to build a good base on survival and then build traps and then trying to survive bigger and bigger hordes (after 2 years playing even gunshots don't help much)

[stio89]

I don't think there were any solar panels for homes in the early 90's, Maybe a lvl 10 carpenter/engineer could build a wind turbine instead.

 

I like the idea of being able to plant flowers, I'd like to be able to plant grass, both kinds

 

 

One of the future professions is drug dealer after all xD

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Occupation#Not_Implemented_Occupations

[Konrad Knox]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_solar_cells

Dunno about that, Stio. 

The game calendar lets you start as late as 2012. And in 2004, there were already proposals for solar roofs.


Other things to work on:


Building a radio / cell tower to get the phones working again.

Wind turbines - great idea, Stio!

Mining? Getting some kind of sustainable fuel source?

Setting up labs to craft medication?

Growing tobacco, brewing alcohol, getting some entertainment type substances back.

Burying the burnt zombie ashes. Learning to recycle them as fertilizer.

Shooting down a helicopter.

Rebuilding a crashed helicopter to board it, get out, and win the game.

------

Although, is it really PZ's focus to rebuild civilization? The game is dystopian. Not dying for a while, you can say you won, and step through the door towards the light, credit roll, hopeful feels. You know? Do we really need to actually define the beyond-survival win conditions?

See, in multiplayer, my players just agree that whoever lives a year - wins the season. Next round we crank up settings.


 

[Magic Mark]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_solar_cells

Dunno about that, Stio. 

The game calendar lets you start as late as 2012. And in 2004, there were already proposals for solar roofs.

Other things to work on:

Building a radio / cell tower to get the phones working again.

Wind turbines - great idea, Stio!

Mining? Getting some kind of sustainable fuel source?

Setting up labs to craft medication?

Growing tobacco, brewing alcohol, getting some entertainment type substances back.

Burying the burnt zombie ashes. Learning to recycle them as fertilizer.

Shooting down a helicopter.

Rebuilding a crashed helicopter to board it, get out, and win the game.

------

Although, is it really PZ's focus to rebuild civilization? The game is dystopian. Not dying for a while, you can say you won, and step through the door towards the light, credit roll, hopeful feels. You know? Do we really need to actually define the beyond-survival win conditions?

See, in multiplayer, my players just agree that whoever lives a year - wins the season. Next round we crank up settings.

 

Solar Panels were a thing in the 90s, like those LED road signs as an example of why they would be found in a rural setting.

 

Also, the game is confirmed already for taking place mid-90s.

[Konrad Knox]

But the date settings allow you to go to 2012 though, that's canon!

[King jjwpenguin]

I agree. Possibly a system where more advanced tech like solar panels could be found when you chose 2012 over 1988. Besides that pz does need a long term problem. If you survive about 7 months in you are about set.

[EnigmaGrey]

Personally, I really do think the game fails if it doesn't keep its promise to kill you. Having 10 years of progress, most of which will not be seen by anyone outside of the die-hard core, just seems a bit of a poor choice on the part of TIS. Not that the way things are spread out now or the lack of content is a good thing.

[Magic Mark]

Personally, I really do think the game fails if it doesn't keep its promise to kill you. Having 10 years of progress, most of which will not be seen by anyone outside of the die-hard core, just seems a bit of a poor choice on the part of TIS. Not that the way things are spread out now or the lack of content is a good thing.

 

These aren't "make the game easier" topics, these are "give the players who have developed their routines" something additional to work on.

 

Heck, this doesn't even have to be 'late-game' to explore either - this will probably become apparent when moving furniture comes out. I know I will dedicate more hours to designing a two-floor bar and grill than fighting zombies once fighting zombies becomes a less annoying/deadly thing to worry about.

 

You can already paint walls, which is just as much as if not less of a post-survival concentration as preventing visible wall cracks.

[EnigmaGrey]

Nothing in my post indicates the game should be made easier.

[Magic Mark]

Nothing in my post indicates the game should be made easier.

You said that the game should keep it's promise to kill the player, late-game 'things to do' shouldn't really get in the way of that IMO. If a plethora of players in the game with the current 'gradual zed siege' spawning can get a routine down where the environment around them is not dangerous, it's probably something that isn't limited to the 'die-hards', in my opinion.

 

Allow me to put it this way:

 

The point of this thread is to try and push TIS towards developing more novelty things the players can do to build visuals and luxuries around their base. Generally, things you can work on outside of purely survival elements. You can already paint walls and make signs, as well as write books. And soon you can redecorate. So I'm pleased. However I feel like with such a concentration on NPCs, Zed Migration and animations at the moment there should also be features designed for when times get 'less intense'. I'm pleased with what's already planned, however that doesn't mean the horizons can't be widened in terms of making your late-game setup more than just a 'base'.

 

TL;DR The little novelty details can easily attract players on that aspect alone. While some may prefer a fast-paced survival and consider everything else just icing, games that can say they have thought of more than just the base game can reap in more from it.

[Adamiks]

I wouldn't play in all these "castle" fun (i didn't built a sign, painted a wall or write a book in the game, it just isn't for what i'm playing in PZ), but i must agree that this would be a nice addition in eyes of a lot of people. "Game about zombies? Oh, it's super realistic! You even can made your own city with everything! So much decorations! Even with NPC and vehicles (not now, of course)!"

[Asrayl]

Just because you call it unbreakable doesn't mean we won't break it.

 

No matter what the difficulty they set it up to, no matter how severe the challenges, someone, somewhere will find a way to make it work. This isn't a failing on their part, it's a success on ours. Even among the dead, life goes on. 

 

That said, giving us more options for base building, decor, novelties, these wouldn't detract from the experience at all. They would give the hardcore survivalists, the skilled teams and dedicated players something to strive for. Something they could show off to their friends and take some pride in having accomplished. 

 

I think this is something worth looking into, I support the idea 100%

[Magic Mark]

Just because you call it unbreakable doesn't mean we won't break it.

 

No matter what the difficulty they set it up to, no matter how severe the challenges, someone, somewhere will find a way to make it work. This isn't a failing on their part, it's a success on ours. Even among the dead, life goes on. 

 

That said, giving us more options for base building, decor, novelties, these wouldn't detract from the experience at all. They would give the hardcore survivalists, the skilled teams and dedicated players something to strive for. Something they could show off to their friends and take some pride in having accomplished. 

 

I think this is something worth looking into, I support the idea 100%

Bingo

 

[Nightmaster]

Just because you call it unbreakable doesn't mean we won't break it.

 

No matter what the difficulty they set it up to, no matter how severe the challenges, someone, somewhere will find a way to make it work. This isn't a failing on their part, it's a success on ours. Even among the dead, life goes on. 

 

That said, giving us more options for base building, decor, novelties, these wouldn't detract from the experience at all. They would give the hardcore survivalists, the skilled teams and dedicated players something to strive for. Something they could show off to their friends and take some pride in having accomplished. 

 

I think this is something worth looking into, I support the idea 100%

As Asrayl said, TIS would not fail if the game dont kill us because we managed to survive for very very long. It will be more an acomplishment for us to "defeat" the game (no matter how hard it will be), to survive whatever nasties the devs throwed at us.

[Magic Mark]

 

Just because you call it unbreakable doesn't mean we won't break it.

 

No matter what the difficulty they set it up to, no matter how severe the challenges, someone, somewhere will find a way to make it work. This isn't a failing on their part, it's a success on ours. Even among the dead, life goes on. 

 

That said, giving us more options for base building, decor, novelties, these wouldn't detract from the experience at all. They would give the hardcore survivalists, the skilled teams and dedicated players something to strive for. Something they could show off to their friends and take some pride in having accomplished. 

 

I think this is something worth looking into, I support the idea 100%

As Asrayl said, TIS would not fail if the game dont kill us because we managed to survive for very very long. It will be more an acomplishment for us to "defeat" the game (no matter how hard it will be), to survive whatever nasties the devs throwed at us.

 

I don't get why that would be the game's leverage either. Even if, I don't think it discourages these proposals at all in the sense that having more novelty things in the game to work on late game in no case detracts from that to begin with.