Blacksmithing

[Kajin]

No reason you can't make an axe blade out of available metal, but it isn't going to be by metallurgy or forging. As I mentioned before, it'd make far more sense to just grind or carve a rudimentary axe head out of scrap metal as opposed to making one with hammer and anvil.

[TheDreaded1]

Yea I can agree with that, repurpose things into tools..I just hate that when I exhaust all my axes, i'm sent back to the stone age

[Rathlord]

 

 

this is the least complicated step as almost anyone would be able to with info gotten off the internet)

 

Keep in mind two things, here:

 

A) This game doesn't take place present day. The internet may or may not exist in this time period, but it would be in a much, much rougher and less filled out state than today, and

 

B) Power goes out shortly after the game begins, and also the government may have intentionally cut communication inside the quarantine zone

 

We can't really count the internet as a resource for the purposes of game systems.

 

 

I wasn't really suggesting having the internet added, just that the information is out there if you look for it. You could also find books about smithing at a library which is perfectly feasible for any time period.

 

 

I looked for smithing books at my local library once as a young chap and was disappointed to find nothing specific to the subject as far as actual mechanics of it goes. Obviously would depend on the size, quality, and funding of the library, but actual forging by hand is an almost completely dead trade. Shaping is a bit more prevalent still, but also almost entirely gone. 

[Nightmaster]

No reason you can't make an axe blade out of available metal, but it isn't going to be by metallurgy or forging. As I mentioned before, it'd make far more sense to just grind or carve a rudimentary axe head out of scrap metal as opposed to making one with hammer and anvil.

Like I said earlier I am not talking about using hammer and a forge to work metal.

 

And like someone said earlier its not that difficult to work metal with the proper tools and it dont need a specific profession for that.

 

Here in brasil where I live is very easy to see car mechanics working with welders, propane torchs and electric soldering irons to work metal for the purpose of repairing old cars or modifing existing day cars for all sort of purposes.

 

By the 80' decade it was already possible. The only thing one need to "learn" it is time, the right tools and material to work on.

[Rathlord]

You don't make things with welders or soldering irons- those are used to attach things together. This is exactly my point- people have no idea what they're talking about with metal working. No one is arguing that you can't attach things with weldes or create things with grinders. What we're talking about is fabricating from scratch by forging or casting.

[Nightmaster]

You don't make things with welders or soldering irons- those are used to attach things together. This is exactly my point- people have no idea what they're talking about with metal working. No one is arguing that you can't attach things with weldes or create things with grinders. What we're talking about is fabricating from scratch by forging or casting.

Not wanting to argue but even a commom joe in the 80' could (if he have the creativity or necessity) create a mold from clay and smelt aluminium using a propane torch and a iron pot (I have see that been done by workers repairing an water pipe in the streets when I was 12 old).

 

Other metals would require for sure more potent ways fo heating, but that's something you need to learn by yourself and its a mechanic already in place on the game, since it assumes you are learning from scratch all sort of things like first aid (believe me its more complex than one would think and I work in a hospital), carpentry and farming.

 

The point is to allow the player the possibility to work metal. How that will be done is a thing for the devs to decide.

[Nightmaster]

To futher add, theres a guy in KY that gives classes on metal working in louisville.

 

Also theres a several schools of craft in KY. Some of then offer meatlworking classes

 

Kentucky

Baker Hunt Art and Cultural Center
620 Greenup Street  
Covington, KY 41011  
(859) 431-0020
Medium: clay
Classes

Berea College
101 Chestnut Street
Berea, KY 40404
(859) 985-3000
Media: clay, fiber
Undergraduate degree

Centre College
Studio Art
600 W Walnut Street
Danville, KY 40422
(859) 238-5735
Media: clay, glass
Undergraduate degree

Hazard Community & Technical College
Kentucky School of Craft
58 Education Lane  
Hindman, KY 41822
(606) 785-1055
Media: clay, metal, wood
Associate degree, diplomas, and certificates

Kelly Mehler School of Woodworking
1865 Big Hill Road
Berea, KY 40403
(859) 986-5540
Medium: wood
Workshops

Louisville Visual Art Association
3005 River Road
Louisville, KY 40207
(502) 896-2146
Media: clay, fiber, glass
Classes and workshops

Paducah School of Art and Design
409 Broadway Street
Paducah, KY 42001
(270) 408-4278
Media: clay, metal
Undergraduate degree and workshops

Thompson Enamel
W.W. Carpenter Enamel Foundation Center
645 Colfax Avenue
Bellevue, KY 41073
(859) 291-3800
Medium: enamel
Workshops

University of Kentucky
School of Art & Visual Studies
465 Rose Street
Lexington, KY 40506
(859) 257-8151
Media: clay, fiber
Undergraduate and graduate degrees

Western Kentucky University
Department of Art
1906 College Heights Boulevard
Bowling Green, KY 42101
(270) 745-3944
Media: clay, fiber
Undergraduate degree

[GrandPunkRailroad]

I agree with the general direction of this thread, tho it's probably already been beat to death. Forging and casting, especially from ore is way outside the scope of what should be possible in PZ. It's just to difficult to learn. Foraging for metal scraps and altering them into non-game breaking materials (nails, perhaps a low durability sledge) however, I would support. Whether a metal working skill would be neccesary or not, I don't know. Perhaps a file tool could be found, or a smithing hammer, and an accelerant would be needed to create a hotter fire (I would guess..), and maybe an avil. You could pound out rough implements I agree. But I can't see how anyone would be able to make the required hole through an axe head in order to attach it normally to an axe handle, it'd have to be jury rigged, more like a stone axe, and may be intermediate in effectiveness, between a stone axe and a fire axe.

I recognize that shortage of building and demolition tools is the main thrust of a metal working skill, and produce-able alternatives would be alright with me.

I don't think you need welding. What need is there for metal structure? Metal armor is unrealistic and unnecessary. Rudimentary welding I think would be possible, but is not needed in my opinion.

[emiliano0086]

Soldering is generally never used for structural stuff. Soldered seems are fairly weak.

Welding is more reasonable for sure.

Yes, i recently googled "welding" and that is what i was referring to. My mistake, i´m from Argentina, so my native languaje is spanish. Does soldering has to do more with electronics?

[emiliano0086]

I agree with the general direction of this thread, tho it's probably already been beat to death. Forging and casting, especially from ore is way outside the scope of what should be possible in PZ. It's just to difficult to learn. Foraging for metal scraps and altering them into non-game breaking materials (nails, perhaps a low durability sledge) however, I would support. Whether a metal working skill would be neccesary or not, I don't know. Perhaps a file tool could be found, or a smithing hammer, and an accelerant would be needed to create a hotter fire (I would guess..), and maybe an avil. You could pound out rough implements I agree. But I can't see how anyone would be able to make the required hole through an axe head in order to attach it normally to an axe handle, it'd have to be jury rigged, more like a stone axe, and may be intermediate in effectiveness, between a stone axe and a fire axe.

I recognize that shortage of building and demolition tools is the main thrust of a metal working skill, and produce-able alternatives would be alright with me.

I don't think you need welding. What need is there for metal structure? Metal armor is unrealistic and unnecessary. Rudimentary welding I think would be possible, but is not needed in my opinion.

I think welding will help us to attach defenses to our vehicles (once they`re in the game)

Something like this http://www.elecodetlaltenango.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2011-05-22_1223171.png but a bit more rudimentary, not so pro. Don`t you agree?

[Nightmaster]

I agree with the general direction of this thread, tho it's probably already been beat to death. Forging and casting, especially from ore is way outside the scope of what should be possible in PZ. It's just to difficult to learn. Foraging for metal scraps and altering them into non-game breaking materials (nails, perhaps a low durability sledge) however, I would support. Whether a metal working skill would be neccesary or not, I don't know. Perhaps a file tool could be found, or a smithing hammer, and an accelerant would be needed to create a hotter fire (I would guess..), and maybe an avil. You could pound out rough implements I agree. But I can't see how anyone would be able to make the required hole through an axe head in order to attach it normally to an axe handle, it'd have to be jury rigged, more like a stone axe, and may be intermediate in effectiveness, between a stone axe and a fire axe.

I recognize that shortage of building and demolition tools is the main thrust of a metal working skill, and produce-able alternatives would be alright with me.

I don't think you need welding. What need is there for metal structure? Metal armor is unrealistic and unnecessary. Rudimentary welding I think would be possible, but is not needed in my opinion.

To make a hole for a axe head all you need is a mold when making the axe head. The mold would have the space for the handle, so all you would need is iron, some form of forge (by the looks of it KY have several workshops so finding one could be not so difficult) and a mold for the axe head.

[emiliano0086]

 

I agree with the general direction of this thread, tho it's probably already been beat to death. Forging and casting, especially from ore is way outside the scope of what should be possible in PZ. It's just to difficult to learn. Foraging for metal scraps and altering them into non-game breaking materials (nails, perhaps a low durability sledge) however, I would support. Whether a metal working skill would be neccesary or not, I don't know. Perhaps a file tool could be found, or a smithing hammer, and an accelerant would be needed to create a hotter fire (I would guess..), and maybe an avil. You could pound out rough implements I agree. But I can't see how anyone would be able to make the required hole through an axe head in order to attach it normally to an axe handle, it'd have to be jury rigged, more like a stone axe, and may be intermediate in effectiveness, between a stone axe and a fire axe.

I recognize that shortage of building and demolition tools is the main thrust of a metal working skill, and produce-able alternatives would be alright with me.

I don't think you need welding. What need is there for metal structure? Metal armor is unrealistic and unnecessary. Rudimentary welding I think would be possible, but is not needed in my opinion.

To make a hole for a axe head all you need is a mold when making the axe head. The mold would have the space for the handle, so all you would need is iron, some form of forge (by the looks of it KY have several workshops so finding one could be not so difficult) and a mold for the axe head.

 

i think the forge it`s not the problem, the problem is: find pure iron and, the most important, do the work and do it well.in addition, nowadays most of the metal stuff it`s made from different alloys and it`s hard to tell the percentage of each metal used for that alloy. What i think it`s the best, and a must, it`s welding, we can craft structures with a appreciable durability and it`s relatively an easy task to do.

[Demonic_Kat]

So on the subject of not knowing "how to smelt" and such, I also know from experience as a welder, that melting certain metals can cause noxious gases. Many people harm or kill themselves when welding materials they don't know the composition of.

 

On second thought here, I'm an average woman who knows how to weld, so perhaps welding isn't a far off skill to have in the game. You could weld metal gates and such... However, I did take the time to learn it, and it did take a long time so I think if it were added it'd have to be a good chunk of points.

 

Also though I know how to weld, I am not a superhuman who can identify the alloys used in whatever metal I'd be welding are. I'd have to procure a gas mask that's functional before I did any experimental welding.

[GrandPunkRailroad]

I think welding will help us to attach defenses to our vehicles (once they`re in the game)

That's quite what I was afraid of. Is this really neccesary?

[emiliano0086]

 

I think welding will help us to attach defenses to our vehicles (once they`re in the game)

That's quite what I was afraid of. Is this really neccesary?

 

If you were in a zombie apocalypse and you have the knowledge, wouldn´t you do it? No offense,but in other post you are talking about full body flight suit to prevent zombies bites and you are against vehicles defenses? I think protection against zombies should be as it is now, and add ways to protect ourselves against NPC´s and other players (in MP) which are, IMO, the real threat.

[Aurex]

Hmm, maybe it is a little far fetched. I would LOVE to see blacksmithing in the game nevertheless. I mean... this is a game of survival, ok. But it's a game of rebuilding aswell. Granted, you WILL die sooner or later. But keeping the basics of the civilization alive in your mind, practicing skills and making things available again without having to resort only on scavenging... that would totally make sense. In a real life scenario involving zombies, I think personal skills would be absolutely invaluable, and a blacksmith would definitely be an asset to a group of survivors.

[King jjwpenguin]

I say that items can be heated and reshaped but they cant be melted down and remade unless they add some sort of forge which is very improbable. By allowing things to be changed in shape but not material then it allows more weapons and tools to be made/used while not making anything to complex. Still this would take some major playing with and a profession would be only so much help. Adding more items to make a larger item would be a very advanced skill but one that is still possible after a long time of learning. That way the only real use it a few extra weapons or better defenses at the cost of much needed items and training.

[Realmkeeper]

I say that items can be heated and reshaped but they cant be melted down and remade unless they add some sort of forge which is very improbable.

I would dare to say that heating and remolding is a far more complex* process than casting and forging from liquid - at least in the case of most metals!

Joining, drilling, and cutting are probably much simpler tasks than trying to reshape an existing metal, in most cases.

 

Edit: *By complex, I mean in terms of the knowledge needed to minimise excessive weakening, not the actions, to result in a similar quality product to raw casting and forging.

[silents429]

 

I have see a lot of post here about the inability of crafting objects made of metal so my sugestion is to add the option of Blacksmithing into the game.

I beg to differ.

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/394-swords-shields-blacksmithing/page-6?hl=%2Bblacksmith#entry155830

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/7402-smithingmetallurgy-shields-campfires/page-3?hl=%2Bblacksmith#entry98084

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/6779-metalworking-craftablecastable-axes-and-such/?hl=%2Bblacksmith#entry88691

I am though in support for further crafting type of things.

[GrandPunkRailroad]

I beg to differ.

Nicely done sir! I believe that puts a pretty solid end cap on that discussion. It seems that anything that we might have brought up has already been discussed ad nausuem.

I'm an average woman who knows how to weld, so perhaps welding isn't a far off skill to have in the game.

So nice to see commonly held conceptions of gender roles busted. Thanks for being awesome!

[silents429]

 

I beg to differ.

Nicely done sir! I believe that puts a pretty solid end cap on that discussion. It seems that anything that we might have brought up has already been discussed ad nausuem.

I'm an average woman who knows how to weld, so perhaps welding isn't a far off skill to have in the game.

So nice to see commonly held conceptions of gender roles busted. Thanks for being awesome!

 

Your response bothers me in the sense that I have commonly been encouraged to post links like this only for me to find out earlier this day not to do it anymore or I will probably get banned.

Granted no rules were broke and people don't seem to mind or think it is rude. BUT.

Go ahead and post more if you have more, I don't mean to kill these threads, I just think it helps for clarity and rounding the discussion a bit more to have more sources of information for these threads. Refine the ideas better etc.

Anyway if it was rude to post that I am sorry.

 

[Suomiboi]

It's not rude or against the rules to post links silents, it never has been. You just seem a tad confrontational when posting them. And I doubt you'd get banned for actually posting links. You should know that much by now. The main rule is to be lovely, and if what you do leads to confrontations more often, it might suggest that your ways of representing yourself might not be that obvious, to those you're talking to, as they seem to you.

 

The loveliness isn't getting through enough! We need more of it.

[blindcoder]

Trying to steer this back on-topic, I'd personally LOVE to see a proper blacksmithing mod.

Turn it into a Skill learned like Trapping, Foraging, with a Profession that starts out at 3-4 Smithing and just go with it.

Ressources? Hell, make a train waggon at the trainstation hold an infinite amount of ore for you to use! So what?

I personally have zero knowledge about smiting (apart from what I saw on show at a medieval fair), but I'd be damned if I wouldn't enjoy a mod that adds that to PZ

[Suomiboi]

I fully agree with blindcoder, it'd be a great mod! Have ore spawn at certain places and especially in something like mp those would get very hard to defend/obtain as everyone wants their share. Fun mod, totally! Vanilla, not necessary imo.

[Rathlord]

Yah, it'd be really neat to see as a mod.