Kajin Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 No reason you can't make an axe blade out of available metal, but it isn't going to be by metallurgy or forging. As I mentioned before, it'd make far more sense to just grind or carve a rudimentary axe head out of scrap metal as opposed to making one with hammer and anvil. Rathlord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDreaded1 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Yea I can agree with that, repurpose things into tools..I just hate that when I exhaust all my axes, i'm sent back to the stone age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathlord Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015   this is the least complicated step as almost anyone would be able to with info gotten off the internet) Keep in mind two things, here: A) This game doesn't take place present day. The internet may or may not exist in this time period, but it would be in a much, much rougher and less filled out state than today, and B) Power goes out shortly after the game begins, and also the government may have intentionally cut communication inside the quarantine zone We can't really count the internet as a resource for the purposes of game systems.  I wasn't really suggesting having the internet added, just that the information is out there if you look for it. You could also find books about smithing at a library which is perfectly feasible for any time period.  I looked for smithing books at my local library once as a young chap and was disappointed to find nothing specific to the subject as far as actual mechanics of it goes. Obviously would depend on the size, quality, and funding of the library, but actual forging by hand is an almost completely dead trade. Shaping is a bit more prevalent still, but also almost entirely gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmaster Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 No reason you can't make an axe blade out of available metal, but it isn't going to be by metallurgy or forging. As I mentioned before, it'd make far more sense to just grind or carve a rudimentary axe head out of scrap metal as opposed to making one with hammer and anvil.Like I said earlier I am not talking about using hammer and a forge to work metal. And like someone said earlier its not that difficult to work metal with the proper tools and it dont need a specific profession for that. Here in brasil where I live is very easy to see car mechanics working with welders, propane torchs and electric soldering irons to work metal for the purpose of repairing old cars or modifing existing day cars for all sort of purposes. By the 80' decade it was already possible. The only thing one need to "learn" it is time, the right tools and material to work on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathlord Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You don't make things with welders or soldering irons- those are used to attach things together. This is exactly my point- people have no idea what they're talking about with metal working. No one is arguing that you can't attach things with weldes or create things with grinders. What we're talking about is fabricating from scratch by forging or casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmaster Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 You don't make things with welders or soldering irons- those are used to attach things together. This is exactly my point- people have no idea what they're talking about with metal working. No one is arguing that you can't attach things with weldes or create things with grinders. What we're talking about is fabricating from scratch by forging or casting.Not wanting to argue but even a commom joe in the 80' could (if he have the creativity or necessity) create a mold from clay and smelt aluminium using a propane torch and a iron pot (I have see that been done by workers repairing an water pipe in the streets when I was 12 old). Other metals would require for sure more potent ways fo heating, but that's something you need to learn by yourself and its a mechanic already in place on the game, since it assumes you are learning from scratch all sort of things like first aid (believe me its more complex than one would think and I work in a hospital), carpentry and farming. The point is to allow the player the possibility to work metal. How that will be done is a thing for the devs to decide. Arturius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmaster Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 To futher add, theres a guy in KY that gives classes on metal working in louisville. Also theres a several schools of craft in KY. Some of then offer meatlworking classes KentuckyBaker Hunt Art and Cultural Center620 Greenup Street  Covington, KY 41011  (859) 431-0020Medium: clayClassesBerea College101 Chestnut StreetBerea, KY 40404(859) 985-3000Media: clay, fiberUndergraduate degreeCentre CollegeStudio Art600 W Walnut StreetDanville, KY 40422(859) 238-5735Media: clay, glassUndergraduate degreeHazard Community & Technical CollegeKentucky School of Craft58 Education Lane  Hindman, KY 41822(606) 785-1055Media: clay, metal, woodAssociate degree, diplomas, and certificatesKelly Mehler School of Woodworking1865 Big Hill RoadBerea, KY 40403(859) 986-5540Medium: woodWorkshopsLouisville Visual Art Association3005 River RoadLouisville, KY 40207(502) 896-2146Media: clay, fiber, glassClasses and workshopsPaducah School of Art and Design409 Broadway StreetPaducah, KY 42001(270) 408-4278Media: clay, metalUndergraduate degree and workshopsThompson EnamelW.W. Carpenter Enamel Foundation Center645 Colfax AvenueBellevue, KY 41073(859) 291-3800Medium: enamelWorkshopsUniversity of KentuckySchool of Art & Visual Studies465 Rose StreetLexington, KY 40506(859) 257-8151Media: clay, fiberUndergraduate and graduate degreesWestern Kentucky UniversityDepartment of Art1906 College Heights BoulevardBowling Green, KY 42101(270) 745-3944Media: clay, fiberUndergraduate degree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPunkRailroad Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I agree with the general direction of this thread, tho it's probably already been beat to death. Forging and casting, especially from ore is way outside the scope of what should be possible in PZ. It's just to difficult to learn. Foraging for metal scraps and altering them into non-game breaking materials (nails, perhaps a low durability sledge) however, I would support. Whether a metal working skill would be neccesary or not, I don't know. Perhaps a file tool could be found, or a smithing hammer, and an accelerant would be needed to create a hotter fire (I would guess..), and maybe an avil. You could pound out rough implements I agree. But I can't see how anyone would be able to make the required hole through an axe head in order to attach it normally to an axe handle, it'd have to be jury rigged, more like a stone axe, and may be intermediate in effectiveness, between a stone axe and a fire axe. I recognize that shortage of building and demolition tools is the main thrust of a metal working skill, and produce-able alternatives would be alright with me. I don't think you need welding. What need is there for metal structure? Metal armor is unrealistic and unnecessary. Rudimentary welding I think would be possible, but is not needed in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiliano0086 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Soldering is generally never used for structural stuff. Soldered seems are fairly weak.Welding is more reasonable for sure.Yes, i recently googled "welding" and that is what i was referring to. My mistake, i´m from Argentina, so my native languaje is spanish. Does soldering has to do more with electronics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiliano0086 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I agree with the general direction of this thread, tho it's probably already been beat to death. Forging and casting, especially from ore is way outside the scope of what should be possible in PZ. It's just to difficult to learn. Foraging for metal scraps and altering them into non-game breaking materials (nails, perhaps a low durability sledge) however, I would support. Whether a metal working skill would be neccesary or not, I don't know. Perhaps a file tool could be found, or a smithing hammer, and an accelerant would be needed to create a hotter fire (I would guess..), and maybe an avil. You could pound out rough implements I agree. But I can't see how anyone would be able to make the required hole through an axe head in order to attach it normally to an axe handle, it'd have to be jury rigged, more like a stone axe, and may be intermediate in effectiveness, between a stone axe and a fire axe.I recognize that shortage of building and demolition tools is the main thrust of a metal working skill, and produce-able alternatives would be alright with me.I don't think you need welding. What need is there for metal structure? Metal armor is unrealistic and unnecessary. Rudimentary welding I think would be possible, but is not needed in my opinion.I think welding will help us to attach defenses to our vehicles (once they`re in the game)Something like this http://www.elecodetlaltenango.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2011-05-22_1223171.png but a bit more rudimentary, not so pro. Don`t you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmaster Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 I agree with the general direction of this thread, tho it's probably already been beat to death. Forging and casting, especially from ore is way outside the scope of what should be possible in PZ. It's just to difficult to learn. Foraging for metal scraps and altering them into non-game breaking materials (nails, perhaps a low durability sledge) however, I would support. Whether a metal working skill would be neccesary or not, I don't know. Perhaps a file tool could be found, or a smithing hammer, and an accelerant would be needed to create a hotter fire (I would guess..), and maybe an avil. You could pound out rough implements I agree. But I can't see how anyone would be able to make the required hole through an axe head in order to attach it normally to an axe handle, it'd have to be jury rigged, more like a stone axe, and may be intermediate in effectiveness, between a stone axe and a fire axe.I recognize that shortage of building and demolition tools is the main thrust of a metal working skill, and produce-able alternatives would be alright with me.I don't think you need welding. What need is there for metal structure? Metal armor is unrealistic and unnecessary. Rudimentary welding I think would be possible, but is not needed in my opinion.To make a hole for a axe head all you need is a mold when making the axe head. The mold would have the space for the handle, so all you would need is iron, some form of forge (by the looks of it KY have several workshops so finding one could be not so difficult) and a mold for the axe head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiliano0086 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015  I agree with the general direction of this thread, tho it's probably already been beat to death. Forging and casting, especially from ore is way outside the scope of what should be possible in PZ. It's just to difficult to learn. Foraging for metal scraps and altering them into non-game breaking materials (nails, perhaps a low durability sledge) however, I would support. Whether a metal working skill would be neccesary or not, I don't know. Perhaps a file tool could be found, or a smithing hammer, and an accelerant would be needed to create a hotter fire (I would guess..), and maybe an avil. You could pound out rough implements I agree. But I can't see how anyone would be able to make the required hole through an axe head in order to attach it normally to an axe handle, it'd have to be jury rigged, more like a stone axe, and may be intermediate in effectiveness, between a stone axe and a fire axe.I recognize that shortage of building and demolition tools is the main thrust of a metal working skill, and produce-able alternatives would be alright with me.I don't think you need welding. What need is there for metal structure? Metal armor is unrealistic and unnecessary. Rudimentary welding I think would be possible, but is not needed in my opinion.To make a hole for a axe head all you need is a mold when making the axe head. The mold would have the space for the handle, so all you would need is iron, some form of forge (by the looks of it KY have several workshops so finding one could be not so difficult) and a mold for the axe head. i think the forge it`s not the problem, the problem is: find pure iron and, the most important, do the work and do it well.in addition, nowadays most of the metal stuff it`s made from different alloys and it`s hard to tell the percentage of each metal used for that alloy. What i think it`s the best, and a must, it`s welding, we can craft structures with a appreciable durability and it`s relatively an easy task to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic_Kat Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 So on the subject of not knowing "how to smelt" and such, I also know from experience as a welder, that melting certain metals can cause noxious gases. Many people harm or kill themselves when welding materials they don't know the composition of. On second thought here, I'm an average woman who knows how to weld, so perhaps welding isn't a far off skill to have in the game. You could weld metal gates and such... However, I did take the time to learn it, and it did take a long time so I think if it were added it'd have to be a good chunk of points. Also though I know how to weld, I am not a superhuman who can identify the alloys used in whatever metal I'd be welding are. I'd have to procure a gas mask that's functional before I did any experimental welding. Rathlord, GrandPunkRailroad and Sliderpro 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPunkRailroad Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I think welding will help us to attach defenses to our vehicles (once they`re in the game)That's quite what I was afraid of. Is this really neccesary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emiliano0086 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015  I think welding will help us to attach defenses to our vehicles (once they`re in the game)That's quite what I was afraid of. Is this really neccesary? If you were in a zombie apocalypse and you have the knowledge, wouldn´t you do it? No offense,but in other post you are talking about full body flight suit to prevent zombies bites and you are against vehicles defenses? I think protection against zombies should be as it is now, and add ways to protect ourselves against NPC´s and other players (in MP) which are, IMO, the real threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurex Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Hmm, maybe it is a little far fetched. I would LOVE to see blacksmithing in the game nevertheless. I mean... this is a game of survival, ok. But it's a game of rebuilding aswell. Granted, you WILL die sooner or later. But keeping the basics of the civilization alive in your mind, practicing skills and making things available again without having to resort only on scavenging... that would totally make sense. In a real life scenario involving zombies, I think personal skills would be absolutely invaluable, and a blacksmith would definitely be an asset to a group of survivors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King jjwpenguin Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I say that items can be heated and reshaped but they cant be melted down and remade unless they add some sort of forge which is very improbable. By allowing things to be changed in shape but not material then it allows more weapons and tools to be made/used while not making anything to complex. Still this would take some major playing with and a profession would be only so much help. Adding more items to make a larger item would be a very advanced skill but one that is still possible after a long time of learning. That way the only real use it a few extra weapons or better defenses at the cost of much needed items and training. uberevan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realmkeeper Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 I say that items can be heated and reshaped but they cant be melted down and remade unless they add some sort of forge which is very improbable.I would dare to say that heating and remolding is a far more complex* process than casting and forging from liquid - at least in the case of most metals!Joining, drilling, and cutting are probably much simpler tasks than trying to reshape an existing metal, in most cases. Edit: *By complex, I mean in terms of the knowledge needed to minimise excessive weakening, not the actions, to result in a similar quality product to raw casting and forging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silents429 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Â I have see a lot of post here about the inability of crafting objects made of metal so my sugestion is to add the option of Blacksmithing into the game.I beg to differ.http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/394-swords-shields-blacksmithing/page-6?hl=%2Bblacksmith#entry155830http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/7402-smithingmetallurgy-shields-campfires/page-3?hl=%2Bblacksmith#entry98084http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/6779-metalworking-craftablecastable-axes-and-such/?hl=%2Bblacksmith#entry88691I am though in support for further crafting type of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandPunkRailroad Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I beg to differ.Nicely done sir! I believe that puts a pretty solid end cap on that discussion. It seems that anything that we might have brought up has already been discussed ad nausuem.I'm an average woman who knows how to weld, so perhaps welding isn't a far off skill to have in the game.So nice to see commonly held conceptions of gender roles busted. Thanks for being awesome! Kitt Frostpaws and Demonic_Kat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silents429 Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015  I beg to differ.Nicely done sir! I believe that puts a pretty solid end cap on that discussion. It seems that anything that we might have brought up has already been discussed ad nausuem.I'm an average woman who knows how to weld, so perhaps welding isn't a far off skill to have in the game.So nice to see commonly held conceptions of gender roles busted. Thanks for being awesome! Your response bothers me in the sense that I have commonly been encouraged to post links like this only for me to find out earlier this day not to do it anymore or I will probably get banned.Granted no rules were broke and people don't seem to mind or think it is rude. BUT.Go ahead and post more if you have more, I don't mean to kill these threads, I just think it helps for clarity and rounding the discussion a bit more to have more sources of information for these threads. Refine the ideas better etc.Anyway if it was rude to post that I am sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomiboi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 It's not rude or against the rules to post links silents, it never has been. You just seem a tad confrontational when posting them. And I doubt you'd get banned for actually posting links. You should know that much by now. The main rule is to be lovely, and if what you do leads to confrontations more often, it might suggest that your ways of representing yourself might not be that obvious, to those you're talking to, as they seem to you. The loveliness isn't getting through enough! We need more of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindcoder Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Trying to steer this back on-topic, I'd personally LOVE to see a proper blacksmithing mod.Turn it into a Skill learned like Trapping, Foraging, with a Profession that starts out at 3-4 Smithing and just go with it.Ressources? Hell, make a train waggon at the trainstation hold an infinite amount of ore for you to use! So what?I personally have zero knowledge about smiting (apart from what I saw on show at a medieval fair), but I'd be damned if I wouldn't enjoy a mod that adds that to PZ Suomiboi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomiboi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I fully agree with blindcoder, it'd be a great mod! Have ore spawn at certain places and especially in something like mp those would get very hard to defend/obtain as everyone wants their share. Fun mod, totally! Vanilla, not necessary imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathlord Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Yah, it'd be really neat to see as a mod. Kajin and uberevan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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