End-game

[Strider]

It's become known that PZ intends to kill me more effectively. Does anyone have an idea as to when these variables are set to kick in?

 

We talking a year? six months?

[Realmkeeper]

No ETA's, remember? 

[Strider]

No ETA's, remember? 

 

True, true. I'm not sure if I was directing this at the devs or at the community in general. I have genuine sympathy and a great deal of respect for what the devs have done. I've gotten into trouble on here for defending them from another impatient community member who has come to vent on something which is in development.

So I guess to be clear, perhaps someone has encountered a change in the game in later months/years which indicates the end game is coming?

[Moose65]

Their working on it, implementing a "sorta" working winter was a good start towards upping the difficulty and getting us off of rooftops.

 

Personally though I'm waiting for them to fine-tune winter so it actually kills crops and doing something about infinite worms before trying a serious play through again.

[Suomiboi]

The improved meta game that they've talked about a lot should be coming along with the NPCs at some point. That would introduce the governor aka sadistic AI director. The plan for that is to make the NPCs create sort of storylines that would ultimately pose a threat and somewhat realistically create problems for you even if you're camping out in the woods. There hasn't been any talk about it for quite a long while so I can't really say that it's something that's still a main priority. If it's coming (it's quite likely since it has been such a widely discussed feature), it's coming after the first version of NPCs are released.

[MonaBabii]

So I guess to be clear, perhaps someone has encountered a change in the game in later months/years which indicates the end game is coming?

 

I believe as it currently stands, the game just throws more and more stuff at you upping the difficulty several notches at a time, like power outage, winter, etc, but I believe if you can actually find a good way to survive all of that comfortably, then that's it... it'd be safe to say you can survive forever specially if you're playing on a server where loot respawning works (I think).

 

They will most likely keep adding things to ramp up the difficulty but I doubt there will ever be something like a wall where the game just straightens you out, looks you in the eyes and slaps you to death. There will probably always be way/s to combat the new things they throw at you, and so long you learn the mechanics and how to take full advantage of everything the game has to offer, you probably won't ever die... unless they end up implementing something like dying of old age or something Perhaps somehow balance that out with your stats or skills, like giving you the option to start as an old person which could potentially be wiser/have more experience at something, but you will obviously have a way shorter life as far as "survive indefinitely" goes.

[migulao]

I think they mentioneditbeingmostlydone in the first quarter of 2015

[Strider]

I think they mentioneditbeingmostlydone in the first quarter of 2015

 

Ahh, it's not done yet. I thought it was. Ok, time to let PZ collect dust for a little longer. 

D'oh

 

(and thanks)

[Talksintext]

NPCs are almost certainly going to make it harder. I imagine they might make zombies more attracted to your constructions or farms soon enough as well.

[Strider]

I'm not sure NPC's are there to make it harder per se but to to add complexity. 

As I understand it there are NPC's who are useful to the group and those who may be a liability to the group and often these individuals are tied to each other by family or ties of friendship. This would create a mini game of trying to keep everyone happy. Effectively making you the governor or Rick Grimes.

 

That's just my understand from the few brief conversation I've had with the IndieStone peeps.

[migulao]

But they will obviously make it harder.

They will scavenge houses, and take their supplies. Idiots will shoot guns near you, attracting the horde, etc...

[Strider]

But they will obviously make it harder.

They will scavenge houses, and take their supplies. Idiots will shoot guns near you, attracting the horde, etc...

 

That's the distinction that needs to be made before we continue. Friendly A.I and hostile A.I. I think the hostile A.I will obviously make things harder.

 

I think the friendly A.I is there to add complexity, not to make it more difficult. 

Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see to be certain.

[Jack Bower]

Probably should add a raid boss to the highway, like a giant robot or a dinosaur or something.

[SailorWolf]

Just hope they don't turn the game into a race to get a gun and ammo so you can protect yourself from hostile NPCs. If it gets to that then I'll use the "kill em all and let god sort them out" game plan   Cause corpses are much easier to deal with

[Strider]

Just hope they don't turn the game into a race to get a gun and ammo so you can protect yourself from hostile NPCs. If it gets to that then I'll use the "kill em all and let god sort them out" game plan   Cause corpses are much easier to deal with

 

It'll be tailored to difficulty, I'd imagine. On harder difficulties you'll meet them early and they might be armed with a bat or a gun but on easier you might hardly encounter them at all.

[Carzen]

Also I read somewhere that there will be NPCs that will backstab you.
They will look friendly at first, then when you sleeping and wake up, he's gone along with your things (or maybe kill you?). That will be pretty awesome

[Svarog]

Also I read somewhere that there will be NPCs that will backstab you.

They will look friendly at first, then when you sleeping and wake up, he's gone along with your things (or maybe kill you?). That will be pretty awesome

Hah, I would end up running around the map for weeks trying to find the bastard just so I could kill him, it would be pretty damn awesome if that happened.

[migulao]

I just want a ''Westerado'' thing to happen.

Incase you don't know, westerado is a game where your family gets murdered, and you have to do missions to get info about the assassin, and track him down.

[Carzen]

 

Also I read somewhere that there will be NPCs that will backstab you.

They will look friendly at first, then when you sleeping and wake up, he's gone along with your things (or maybe kill you?). That will be pretty awesome

Hah, I would end up running around the map for weeks trying to find the bastard just so I could kill him, it would be pretty damn awesome if that happened.

 

Damn man, I say the same hahah.. I really hope they add that!

[SiderisAnon]

Hah, I would end up running around the map for weeks trying to find the bastard just so I could kill him, it would be pretty damn awesome if that happened.

 

Considering the currently limited number of appearance options for humans, this could create some unfortunate situations.

 

"Oh, your brother wasn't the guy who stole all my stuff?  Sorry.  My bad.  He had the same sprite." 

[migulao]

 

Hah, I would end up running around the map for weeks trying to find the bastard just so I could kill him, it would be pretty damn awesome if that happened.

 

Considering the currently limited number of appearance options for humans, this could create some unfortunate situations.

 

"Oh, your brother wasn't the guy who stole all my stuff?  Sorry.  My bad.  He had the same sprite." 

 

''Soooo, huh, no hard feelings?''

[bumblemore]

I do prefer slow zombies, but all the same- I still finding myself weaving in and out of them through the streets with no trouble. Lots of other people say build 30+ is tough, I say I can still survive for months on end with no problems.

 

EDIT:

 

Someone just mentioned NPCs, I am confident that they will heat up the game enough to make it a real challenge once more.

[Talksintext]

NPCs will have to have some hostile abilities, and they will have to be able to use guns and axes and such. They're definitely going to increase the difficult level, especially for the late game where the player would otherwise be fairly safe due to having a bunch of loot (which could be stolen/burned) and high skills (which don't matter if you get hacked or shot by a random NPC). On the one hand, you want to build up a fortress perhaps to ward off zombie hordes, but doing so attracts NPC hordes, so you're caught balancing between low-profile and high vulnerability.

 

I'm curious to see how much social management they introduce with NPCs. Like, how much info will be given about interactions, will there be conversation trees, will social hierarchy be in effect, will there be buildups of trust, will you have to take into account an NPC's mental stability - for example, maybe a friendly guy one day snaps after his wife gets zombified in front of him?

 

I think of Dwarf Fortress, and how you can have "tantrum spirals" (a bug-feature), where large settlements can divide into factions, and then one death sends one guy into a fit of rage, who hurts a bunch of others, killing a couple, which snowballs and sends the whole thing into meltdown mode.

 

That would be awesome with an NPC group in this game.

 

I doubt it'll have the same level of complexity as DF (though I hope I'm mistaken), but just getting SOME of that level of complexity into the NPC system will bring a lot of added difficulty and emergent gameplay and challenge and so on to the game that's sorely lacking now.

 

They really do need to make the human AI very open to modding, so that the community can build on whatever base they manage to create. I'm worried it's going to be like the health and trait systems, 90% complied in Java, 10% available to modders. You can't but pick at the edges with that right now. Hopefully NPCs will be far more expandable and configurable.

 

Ultimately, I think the strength of the NPC system is going to be determined by a simple test:

 

How good would the game be with ONLY NPCs and NO zombies?

[Svarog]

They really do need to make the human AI very open to modding, so that the community can build on whatever base they manage to create. I'm worried it's going to be like the health and trait systems, 90% complied in Java, 10% available to modders. You can't but pick at the edges with that right now. Hopefully NPCs will be far more expandable and configurable.

There was a mondoid where they said NPC behaviours will be fully modable. http://projectzomboid.com/blog/2015/01/back-2-skool/

And personally I'm trying not to get too hyped over the NPCs, AI is AI the only thing I really wonder about is how much suspension of disbelief one is going to need to forget that it is AI and while I'm fully confident in devs ability to create something awesome the kind of NPCs they say they want to create have never existed in a really believable way in any game I've had the opportunity to play to date, eventually you just start noticing the scripting and something breaks. In my personal opinion, NPCs are definitely going to be awesome on release but they will likely require a ton of fine tuning and since they will be open for modders I'm confident one day we are going to have some of the most advanced NPCs in any game ever with scripting done in such a way you'll forget that their brain is your CPU but I don't expect shiny miracles day one. That's as far as their AI goes.

[Jack Bower]

I am just going to betray NPCs and gun them down 10/10 I am expecting them to be extremely vulnerable to just being shot in the face instead of interacting with them.