Chain Mail

[IronCoffins]

Just a quick thought, if you had chain mail could you be invincible against zombies? You would proubley feel the pressure from the bit, but there would be no way of them biting though that right?, plus it would be fairly light to wear. I've always wondered about chain mail, any thoughts?

[Dtrahan12]

Just a quick thought, if you had chain mail could you be invincible against zombies? You would proubley feel the pressure from the bit, but there would be no way of them biting though that right?, plus it would be fairly light to wear. I've always wondered about chain mail, any thoughts?

The idea of chain mail is cool but, who would have chain mail laying around in Kentucky? 

[migulao]

 

Just a quick thought, if you had chain mail could you be invincible against zombies? You would proubley feel the pressure from the bit, but there would be no way of them biting though that right?, plus it would be fairly light to wear. I've always wondered about chain mail, any thoughts?

The idea of chain mail is cool but, who would have chain mail laying around in Kentucky? 

 

This isnt in the suggestions tab, bro, its general discussion, not even PZ general discussion 

[IronCoffins]

well if they got the guns, but who knows, maybe the devs could put a antique shop somewhere in town. Chain mail would work though, I mean they use it for sharks these days when there down below. I have a sword and shield here but no armor, and like 8 guns(I live here in ohio ) but its hard to say what anyone could have in there house eh? it could be a very special, special item indeed to find.  

[Kajin]

It would be more trouble than it's worth. Sure it'd prevent the odd scratch or bite if it covered your whole body, but it'd be a major grab hazard. All it'd take is one zed grabbing onto you and slowing you down just enough and the rest could easily surround you and bite and pull and scratch at you unceasingly. The only way it would possibly save you is if it was a full suit head to toe and then they'd still get you eventually. Pull it right off you after they weaken the links with enough wrenching.

 

Honestly the best thing to do would be to just wear heavy clothing or clothing made of very durable cloth and then tape down any areas that hang out to present as smooth a profile as possible.

[Footmuffin]

With chainmail under all that, right?

[Realmkeeper]

I'm not too sure where people get this illusion that chainmail is 'light'. Sure, it's less cumbersome than say, a full length studded leather trenchcoat, but unless it fits well then you're going to be restricted in both comfort and movement.

As has already been mentioned, depending on the quality of it, it could 'snag' and be pulled easily, and once a single link is broken the entire point of wearing it for protection is pretty much nullified (at least in the region of the missing link). Also, rather than the zombie's own teeth penetrating your skin, the crushing pressure on the outside of the chain will puncture your skin soon enough - at the very least bruising and/or possibly breaking bones beneath that.

 

Did I mention it also has a tendency to pinch, rub, and irritate skin?

It's not really something you'd want to be wearing a full suit of when facing a horde...

 

Source: Personal experience - I wear chain at one of my jobs for up to 10 hours a day.

[Kirrus]

Just a quick thought, if you had chain mail could you be invincible against zombies? You would proubley feel the pressure from the bit, but there would be no way of them biting though that right?, plus it would be fairly light to wear. I've always wondered about chain mail, any thoughts?

 

FYI, moved this thread to suggestions

[Comrade Crimson]

I think the problem with this is that you won't find any competent chainmail in Kentucky.

 

And then add in the problem of: They aren't adding OP items ingame...

 

Now what I'd like to see- Firemen suits. Thick, would be able to be found in a fire department.

[Dryke]

To be fair to the OP, it isn't really necessary to think of this as a strict suggestion for medieval style chain mail - and thus it isn't really important whether or not you could find such a thing in Kentucky.  I can guarantee you that if the zombie apocalypse happened, the citizens of Kentucky are familiar enough with the idea of personal protection to imagine some type of body armor to defeat or at least address the idea of being scratched or bitten. 

 

Think about the movie World War Z (and forget for a moment how horribly they butchered Max Brook's story, because in the end it was still a decent zombie apocalypse movie...but I digress).  Remember Brad Pitt's character 'armoring' his extremities with magazines?  Same idea.  Body armor could range from something as simple as that - and we already have magazines and duct tape in the game! - to something far more extravagant.  After all, while chain mail itself was eventually something made by highly skilled armorsmiths, there are plenty of types of body armor that would suit the simple purpose of stopping bites or scratches that can be made with far less skill.

 

So the real issue here is evaluating whether or not body armor of any type can be implemented without being game breaking.  It's not possible to make a solid argument that some type of body armor response is unlikely even in rural Kentucky.  In fact, the opposite is true - to be realistic, rudimentary body armor WOULD appear fairly quickly and if any society could actually establish itself post-apocalypse then far more advanced forms would eventually appear.   This is just one of those things where the developers have to decide if realism would lead to more or less fun gameplay.

[Rausheim]

If you had chainmail, the zombies would quickly catch up to you as you would be exhausted after wearing it a few minutes. They are heavy.

[Dryke]

I can't agree that a suit of chainmail would prevent you from escaping a canon-lore zombie.  You can practically walk away from them, and the suit is not so heavy that a few minutes of use would exhaust a person with any reasonable degree of fitness.  Several hours, perhaps - less for the unfit, more for the athletic - but not a few minutes.

 

Remember, after all, that there were people who used to wear such suits into combat where they would likely have to undertake other strenuous forms of activity as well - such as swinging a sword or firing a crossbow or shooting a bow, or perhaps dodging the same...on top of marching or perhaps even running

[Kajin]

It's less that you can't run away from them and more that it's harder to get away from one when it does grab you, which in turn makes it that much easier for the rest of the horde to catch up and grab you as well. Unless you get a master crafter to make the chain mail absolutely form fitting to the point of presenting nothing but a smooth surface it's going to be a major grab hazard. That's the problem I have with chain mail.

[Dryke]

How does it make it harder to get away?  I'm not sure I see how a zombie gets a better grip on a true suit of chainmail than it could on, say, a sweater that you are wearing.  Or a jacket.  Or any other loose clothing.  On top of this I can't imagine a person so grabbed would be exactly passive about it; the idea being that while the zombie is trying in vain to chew its way through tight metal links, you have an excellent opportunity to calmly plunge your screwdriver into its head and then go about your business no worse for the wear.  This would even apply to a poorly crafted suit of chain; I can't see it being any worse than regular street clothes, and it at least affords you some protection.  I honestly don't see 'grab hazard' outweighing the defense factor.

 

To repeat, though, I'm not taking a position on the game balance issue.  That seems like a tougher nut to crack.

[IronCoffins]

There are pros and cons with anything. this being a game mind you would need to have its balance, if its gonna give you that extra protection it needs to have its down sides too, like being heavy(depending how much you have on, a full suit or just a shirt?) being noisy if its loose, but there's ways of fixing that to some degree like duct tape and such. Dryke is right about wwz, though. He had mags on his arms. Now anything that would buy you a hand full of seconds is better then nothing. Firefighter suits, leather jackets, police riot gear, attack dog suits, Soviet SPOSN Groka mountain suits, ballistic vest, then theirs scalemail(like CM but has small metal plates weaved into it.) Lamellar amour, Steelplate armor (though this would be downright heavy)PVC amour, Kevlar, Teton motorcycle jacket or motor suit, Neptunic 'C" suit (used for shark diving) duct tape or ace bandages can fill the gaps between armor, football pads, gaiters, athletic skin guards, mesh kitchen gloves & clothing.

 

But these are the main key points for any armor keeping in mind nothing game breaking as well.

 

-Does it cover all of the skin it can?

-Is it durable

-Is it designed for the area that im in?

-Is it baggy, loose, or heavy

-Does it provide storage space

-Will it provide protection without compromising  movement or senses?

 

For the average joe do they have access to any of this stuff, that saying they don't make there own stuff. So some lucky ones may have it and unlucky ones will go without. On a side note chainmail weight can very on type and how much you have covering your body anywhere from 20 to 60lbs, then put into effect anything your carrying, like backpack and all that so you better be a strong, stout person.

[Vonholtz]

I had on just a chain mail shirt before. And when it sit on the shoulders it not to bad. But it still heavy as hell and it would be hot as well. You over heat in a vest in this game. I would say you are right it would be hard for zombies to do much to some one in chain mail. But if they got you on the ground it would be hard to get back up with lot of them on you.

 

Now think about this would you want to wear this heavy chain mail coat or a much lighter leather jacket. I do not thing zombie(human) teeth could bit there way past leather. On top of that just wrap duck tap on a few magazine in a few key spots. 10 pages of glossy magazine paper with duck tap over it is more then enough This would be lighter and work just as well vs zombie teeth and nails. It would not be much cooler but would not be any hotter. And you all know we look much better in leather after all the movie the matrix shows us that.

 

In the end i agree armor would be one of the first thing one could get. Hell just a few layers duck tap wrapped around clothing would help. They have said that armor might be put in to the game. But we do have to ask one point. Will it over power the players vs zombies or will the larger numbers of zombies just drag you down and kill you with numbers?

[ApolloDiaspora]

The armour debate has been brought up time and time again, as well as the crafting of it. I'll tote out the old chesnut: If you're wearing armour, you're more likely to do something stupid. Oh, I have armour on, it's fine to wander over and brain that zombEEEAHgodmyarm.

 

Chainmail isn't the sort of thing you'd be able to make in-game (even if you had the ability, it'd be a laborious and tedious thing to do), and besides, it would rattle and jingle a lot unless you pad the hell out of it (leading to extremely fast overheating). Goodbye stealth, here comes the clinking dinnerbell.

[Troblin]

As formerly a participant of gangs of people who reconstruct medieval weapons and swing them, I'd say that lame variants of chainmail are doable without forging from certain household gear stores. Yet to the practical aspect of it - both people knowing how to make chainmail and not knowing of it but aware of practical melee combat would agree that full armor suit is not necessary. Because if you let the Zs crowd you - they'll find something to bite, while vs small amount of Zs you only need limited limb protection (mainly bracers less offhand armor) and some minimal fullbody one bite leather jacket. Because zombie is either scratch or blunt, and you don't want to take on blunt hits in any armor - they are tirind - you want to avoid scratches and do damage, or be light enough to run the ... away.

 

It might be a bit different if survivors formed communities and had some dedicated warrior/sentry jobs - then yeah, likely, they'd appreciate armor. But even then there are options of applying hockey suit frame inside, some leather coat with extra straps for neck protection and maybe again minor metallic addons for bracers no need for chainmail again. Why no need? Because crafting it is a damn pain.

[Tyler the Super Ranger]

If I was fighting a zombie I would go for the lightest armor I could get away with in regards that it only needs to stop said zombie from penetrating my skin.

 

Let's say for example I was exhausted from fighting and one snuck up on me. I will want to get away from it as fast as I can. That would be near impossible if I was wearing an extra 20 lbs of clothing. Since I cannot remove my armor while fighting I would have to abandon weapons or gear if I needed to lose extra weight [i would not risk fighting a zombie if I am too tired regardless of my armor] even though they are more valuable.

[Dryke]

If you're wearing armor, you're more likely to do something stupid.

 

So be it.  This would be modeled perfectly by player behavior:  If the player thinks the armor makes them invulnerable and they do something that gets them killed, that's on them.  Alternately if they are smart enough not to get caught thinking like that, there would be no need to penalize them for a behavior choice that they did not make.

 

 

 

Chainmail isn't the sort of thing you'd be able to make in game

 

Sure it is.  YOU, personally, IRL could make a crude suit of chain mail with the materials and equipment you could find by scavenging a small town.  Laborious and tedious?  Absolutely.  Worth it?  That's up to the individual to decide, provided both the effort necessary and the potential reward (or lack thereof, if someone made a completely ineffective suit) were modeled correctly.

 

 

 

and besides, it would rattle and jingle a lot unless you pad the hell out of it

 

Again, so be it.  Exactly how much noise it made could be determined by skill level, and there is already a mechanism in game to address both noise and overheating - once again reducing it to a matter of individual player choice to assess risk/cost vs reward.

 

To go back to something I said in my original post, I think we also need to keep remembering that while the OP specifically mentioned chainmail we don't have to think of this as 'chainmail only'.  I'd have to agree with most of the posters who think it's unlikely anyone could find a useful set of chainmail in the Knox County area, and it's also unlikely someone could learn to make a professional level suit of it.  But for those who reject the idea that it could even be done IRL...unfortunately all of human history refutes that position.  Historically, people could (and did) make armor with far less resources and equipment than a survivor could find in the ruins of a modern American town.  There is no realism based argument that can be made to rule out the possibility of survivors crafting SOME type of armor.  The only debate of consequence is whether or not introducing armor into the game is practical from a coding sense and workable from the perspective of game balance.

[IronCoffins]

Wearing armor might lead you to make poor decisions and get stupid, but I already do that as it is and I don't even have armor. Plus It would be long and tiresome to construct your own armor, providing you even had the skill to do it, but what time would a man have on his hands to do something, while your crops grow?

 

On a side note, if amour could be implemented into the game with out causes anything op, then that's great. Even with a little extra safety, I still want to be challenged as much as possible in this game. In my mind how I see this game should be as hard as It can be. You should be challenged at everything you do in this game, an example like water, most water if its not bottled, should as some point be boiled, for pathogens. Stuff like this, making this a true survival game, while not having to much micromanagement(unless that's ur thing) I know it is for me

[Mikhail Reign]

I have a mate who made his own chain mail. Each weekend on a trip to his sword fighting thing (not my deal) he took a 2 hour train ride there, and again back the next day. Just sat on the train and knitted (i cant really think of a good term for making chain mail) together a chain mail garb, long sleeved and down to his thighs. Didn't take him that long. Would definitely stop some teeth. Its not really that heavy. You could easily keep up a slow jog almost indefinitely (if you can already run) with out much of a hindrance. He made it out of reel of wire, wire cutters and a pliers.

 

Baring that, you could just walk into any butches and get their one.

[ColonelSandersLite]

Just food for thought here.  Why chain mail?  It doesn't need to stop a sword, just a bite.  Imagine this instead.   Take good sturdy clothes such as biker leathers or sturdy denim and combine with common galvanized sheet metal/aluminium flashing.  Easy to work, way easier to make than chain links, and would definately stop a bite.

 

I could turn out a full suit of *that* with crap I have laying around my house and in an afternoon and it would be both lighter and more effective than chain mail.

[Bolgfred]

I think the problem with this is that you won't find any competent chainmail in Kentucky.

Kentucky is famous for their medieval blacksmithing, isn't it?

 

If you had chainmail, the zombies would quickly catch up to you as you would be exhausted after wearing it a few minutes. They are heavy.

 

No problem. Give me a halberd, and: GET MY WAR HORSE!

 

 

Plus It would be long and tiresome to construct your own armor, providing you even had the skill to do it, but what time would a man have on his hands to do something, while your crops grow?

You could masturbate a lot?

As for myself I would have no idea how to forge a chain mail out of bottle caps.

 

And to say at least anything little helpful: Before you're about to save a princess from the zombies - try riot armors or bulletproof vests. The knights of these centuries wear those mostly. Even in the Kentucky Kingdom.