Fortport

Hi every body !
 
I've been trought a few games in Insane option, and when i get out to find supplies, i always see zombies waiting in streets, just waiting to move after the first sound...
 
I mean, zombies still are "living" ! So here is my little suggestion :
 
- Implement a few behavior for zombies, like eating a corpse, follow an other zombie, scratch walls, not intelligent or logical behavior, but something to make zombies more "alive", and by these occupations it could be easier to be invisible for them, they are concentrate and making some noises !
 
- The second behavior i'd like to see is just zombies to be able to hang around, independantly from any sound. Maybe just after a little time in a place, the zombie move around, a stop somewhere, with any logic ? And by moving, the zombie drags some other zombies who just have seen him move and so follow him by instinct ! I'd love to see some hordes, just one or two per city, "leading" by a small group of zombies always moving around, and draggind other zombies to create a big horde, also dropping little groups of zombies in it track. These hordes could follow sounds and survivors, but when there is any of them, they just follow their instinct, leading them to places all around the city.
 
(Max Brooks in his survivor guide said that zombies are attracted by the places which attracted humans before : church, schools, community centers, malls... Maybe these places are soak by human odors, and a horde can smell it ?)
 
Just an idea to make zombies more than waiting in the streets, and more terrible !
I hope this was clear, i really apologize for my english !
 
EDIT 24/02/2015 :
 
Here are some of the ideas you give me :
 
- When wildlife be there, zombies are of course attract by its move and smell. Especially in city, i'd really love to see dogs and rats. They are the only animals who will stay in town :
_ rats survive pretty easy to zombies and will have more food and space than ever.  And of course, those little mooving snacks will attract zombies in buildings, sometimes really deep in them.
_ dogs are the saddest remains of this world : their owners are dead, and dogs wasn't ready to deal with a life without man. But they still are very dangerous beasts, more when hunger come to them... That's why you'll find some dogs, looking together in town, on an opposite neighborhood of the great horde, spreading is rotten smell all around.
If this animals will left when a horde come around, they'll stay in town, and kind of accustom to this danger. So they won't be afraid by a few zombies hanging around, of course, until one of them see his meal and run after it. That could drag zombies on a long distance, or deep in a building, and zombies will keep looking for it until they forgot. And that could be a pretty long time, enough to get in higher buildings or in a weak point of your fortress...
 
- Of course zombies are aggressive because of the virus, trying to spreading as much as possible. But after the higher point of contamination, the possibilities to spread just go down, so this organism work on the "health" of his host. According to Max Brooks, zombies in temperate climate (as USA or EU) can live 3 years with a minimal eat. Zombies in cold climate will live longer, and tropical about one year less. But it is still an organism, ruled by a virus who naturally try to live as longer as possible.
So if zombies will always run after a human being, all the other time they will try to feed themselves, with small animals and rest bodies.

While playing through a winter my character was freezing even though I was sheltering in my safe house.
 
If your sheltering in a house with the doors and windows shut you should be slightly warmer than if you were outside and exposed to the wind, rain and snow.
 
of course, if there is a window or door left open it is significantly colder. so you would need to go around closing windows and doors and boarding up the broken windows. (you should be doing this anyway. there are Zombies about!)
 
keeping warm should involve more than just lighting fires and wearing a sweater.
 
at the moment it seems you are better off outside in winter, at least then you can light a fire...

Yes, I'd like to see this.

They won't though. Ideally, all tutorial aspects should be interactive and tell you what to do at the time you are doing it. Obviously that's not something that can happen overnight, and a lot of early access games leave that kind of stuff to last.
 
Unfortunately, you can put the information there but a large amount of people aren't going to let a bit of text hold them up from their playing experience, and the few that do bother to look at it will probably skim it. The modern user isn't interested in game manuals and instruction text, they want to pick up and play so you need to teach them how to play while they are doing it.

READ THIS POST FIRST BEFORE REPLYING! DO NOT SKIM OVER THIS, PLEASE; READ EVERY DETAIL.

I made a similar post to this in the "exhaustion feedback" topic. This mechanic has always been vague and difficult to understand unless it was explained to you via a text document. This almost means, every time, that if someone new doesn't known about the tutorial they'll consequently miss out on this mechanic.

There's no visible representation of this, in-game, audibly or visibly of the science happening. It's no wonder everyone doesn't understand.

Your character stands and attacks the same regardless if he's "charged" or spam-attacking. So here are my suggestions. There are numerous ways we can accomplish this without having text notifications in the corner of your game, or some immersion-breaking gauge-bar on the side.
 
More or less your character visibly winding up with their weapon, and becoming slightly rigid when it's "charged." When you attack from this stance, and connect, the screen jerks and the hit-sound is more crunchy and audible, thus voicing its effectiveness.. and ultimately making this technique more satisfying and easy to notice.
  The cursor could also have a reticule around it that, when charging, fills to the edge and pulses when ready.
  When wound up with your weapon, the character can begin rotating his weapon subtly in a batter fashion, looking more ready for that perfect, solid swing.
  Zombies, when hit by a charged attack, could recoil with a different animation. Like they got hit really hard, compared to your standard swing. For example, their head snapping to the side on impact, with their torso rotating. Anything to let the player know that this is working more than erratically spam-clicking.


 

READ THIS POST FIRST BEFORE REPLYING! DO NOT SKIM OVER THIS, PLEASE; READ EVERY DETAIL.

I made a similar post to this in the "exhaustion feedback" topic. This mechanic has always been vague and difficult to understand unless it was explained to you via a text document. This almost means, every time, that if someone new doesn't known about the tutorial they'll consequently miss out on this mechanic.

There's no visible representation of this, in-game, audibly or visibly of the science happening. It's no wonder everyone doesn't understand.

Your character stands and attacks the same regardless if he's "charged" or spam-attacking. So here are my suggestions. There are numerous ways we can accomplish this without having text notifications in the corner of your game, or some immersion-breaking gauge-bar on the side.
 
More or less your character visibly winding up with their weapon, and becoming slightly rigid when it's "charged." When you attack from this stance, and connect, the screen jerks and the hit-sound is more crunchy and audible, thus voicing its effectiveness.. and ultimately making this technique more satisfying and easy to notice.
  The cursor could also have a reticule around it that, when charging, fills to the edge and pulses when ready.
  When wound up with your weapon, the character can begin rotating his weapon subtly in a batter fashion, looking more ready for that perfect, solid swing.
  Zombies, when hit by a charged attack, could recoil with a different animation. Like they got hit really hard, compared to your standard swing. For example, their head snapping to the side on impact, with their torso rotating. Anything to let the player know that this is working more than erratically spam-clicking.


 

Well I mean, hopefully one day the person would learn the rhythm of the swings and they wouldn't need the visual indicator anymore. It would be like drumming, wait however long before giving it another pound, wouldn't take long for the brain to memorize it and just start doing it correct every time.

I like the idea.

Yes, very good suggestion.

This is a great idea, I dig it.

I can't assure you all the animations you pointed are planned but most are, as a full time animator recently joined the developping team !

READ THIS POST FIRST BEFORE REPLYING! DO NOT SKIM OVER THIS, PLEASE; READ EVERY DETAIL.

I made a similar post to this in the "exhaustion feedback" topic. This mechanic has always been vague and difficult to understand unless it was explained to you via a text document. This almost means, every time, that if someone new doesn't known about the tutorial they'll consequently miss out on this mechanic.

There's no visible representation of this, in-game, audibly or visibly of the science happening. It's no wonder everyone doesn't understand.

Your character stands and attacks the same regardless if he's "charged" or spam-attacking. So here are my suggestions. There are numerous ways we can accomplish this without having text notifications in the corner of your game, or some immersion-breaking gauge-bar on the side.
 
More or less your character visibly winding up with their weapon, and becoming slightly rigid when it's "charged." When you attack from this stance, and connect, the screen jerks and the hit-sound is more crunchy and audible, thus voicing its effectiveness.. and ultimately making this technique more satisfying and easy to notice.
  The cursor could also have a reticule around it that, when charging, fills to the edge and pulses when ready.
  When wound up with your weapon, the character can begin rotating his weapon subtly in a batter fashion, looking more ready for that perfect, solid swing.
  Zombies, when hit by a charged attack, could recoil with a different animation. Like they got hit really hard, compared to your standard swing. For example, their head snapping to the side on impact, with their torso rotating. Anything to let the player know that this is working more than erratically spam-clicking.


 

READ THIS POST FIRST BEFORE REPLYING! DO NOT SKIM OVER THIS, PLEASE; READ EVERY DETAIL.

I made a similar post to this in the "exhaustion feedback" topic. This mechanic has always been vague and difficult to understand unless it was explained to you via a text document. This almost means, every time, that if someone new doesn't known about the tutorial they'll consequently miss out on this mechanic.

There's no visible representation of this, in-game, audibly or visibly of the science happening. It's no wonder everyone doesn't understand.

Your character stands and attacks the same regardless if he's "charged" or spam-attacking. So here are my suggestions. There are numerous ways we can accomplish this without having text notifications in the corner of your game, or some immersion-breaking gauge-bar on the side.
 
More or less your character visibly winding up with their weapon, and becoming slightly rigid when it's "charged." When you attack from this stance, and connect, the screen jerks and the hit-sound is more crunchy and audible, thus voicing its effectiveness.. and ultimately making this technique more satisfying and easy to notice.
  The cursor could also have a reticule around it that, when charging, fills to the edge and pulses when ready.
  When wound up with your weapon, the character can begin rotating his weapon subtly in a batter fashion, looking more ready for that perfect, solid swing.
  Zombies, when hit by a charged attack, could recoil with a different animation. Like they got hit really hard, compared to your standard swing. For example, their head snapping to the side on impact, with their torso rotating. Anything to let the player know that this is working more than erratically spam-clicking.


 

READ THIS POST FIRST BEFORE REPLYING! DO NOT SKIM OVER THIS, PLEASE; READ EVERY DETAIL.

I made a similar post to this in the "exhaustion feedback" topic. This mechanic has always been vague and difficult to understand unless it was explained to you via a text document. This almost means, every time, that if someone new doesn't known about the tutorial they'll consequently miss out on this mechanic.

There's no visible representation of this, in-game, audibly or visibly of the science happening. It's no wonder everyone doesn't understand.

Your character stands and attacks the same regardless if he's "charged" or spam-attacking. So here are my suggestions. There are numerous ways we can accomplish this without having text notifications in the corner of your game, or some immersion-breaking gauge-bar on the side.
 
More or less your character visibly winding up with their weapon, and becoming slightly rigid when it's "charged." When you attack from this stance, and connect, the screen jerks and the hit-sound is more crunchy and audible, thus voicing its effectiveness.. and ultimately making this technique more satisfying and easy to notice.
  The cursor could also have a reticule around it that, when charging, fills to the edge and pulses when ready.
  When wound up with your weapon, the character can begin rotating his weapon subtly in a batter fashion, looking more ready for that perfect, solid swing.
  Zombies, when hit by a charged attack, could recoil with a different animation. Like they got hit really hard, compared to your standard swing. For example, their head snapping to the side on impact, with their torso rotating. Anything to let the player know that this is working more than erratically spam-clicking.


 

Basically, I feel like these little moodles and actions you do don't change how your character moves and behaves enough. You basically stand still like a statue unless you're fighting, or climbing! And I understand that this stuff is expensive, and ambitious, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Staggering around when shit-faced. Holding or favoring an appendage that is in pain/injured. Character eating from their hands when consuming food, knocking back/sipping from drinks. Character rubbing at their belly periodically when starving, some body language suggesting malnourishment. Crouching down and rooting around in containers. Wrapping bandages around wounds. Sitting when resting, laying down before sleeping, etc. Character wiping at their nose when ill, catching sneezes even though they're audible anyway. Backpack manipulation. Various animations for different crafting recipes, or possibly just one repeated for everything as long as it's reasonable. Like acting busy with the hands.

Basically, I feel like these little moodles and actions you do don't change how your character moves and behaves enough. You basically stand still like a statue unless you're fighting, or climbing! And I understand that this stuff is expensive, and ambitious, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Staggering around when shit-faced. Holding or favoring an appendage that is in pain/injured. Character eating from their hands when consuming food, knocking back/sipping from drinks. Character rubbing at their belly periodically when starving, some body language suggesting malnourishment. Crouching down and rooting around in containers. Wrapping bandages around wounds. Sitting when resting, laying down before sleeping, etc. Character wiping at their nose when ill, catching sneezes even though they're audible anyway. Backpack manipulation. Various animations for different crafting recipes, or possibly just one repeated for everything as long as it's reasonable. Like acting busy with the hands.

Y'know, I was thinking that with this new animator.. why not just add a "winding up" animation? Pulling the weapon back a little slowly, and then when its peaked, tensing up a little, ready to swing?

It would tell players that your character is "charging" an attack, and that there's something happening, while making it fluid enough to not break up a sloppy, fast swing. People just don't see a difference between charging and crazily attacking; and there really isn't any feedback, in-game, during combat that lets the player know there's even a charging system. The fact they have to open up a tutorial and such might seem a little excessive, when you can make it immediately obvious without breaking immersion with a gauge, or meter.

Y'know, I was thinking that with this new animator.. why not just add a "winding up" animation? Pulling the weapon back a little slowly, and then when its peaked, tensing up a little, ready to swing?

It would tell players that your character is "charging" an attack, and that there's something happening, while making it fluid enough to not break up a sloppy, fast swing. People just don't see a difference between charging and crazily attacking; and there really isn't any feedback, in-game, during combat that lets the player know there's even a charging system. The fact they have to open up a tutorial and such might seem a little excessive, when you can make it immediately obvious without breaking immersion with a gauge, or meter.

[ !Wall of text! ]

I can't quite play the new version until a few hours from now, but I have been reading up about the endurance system. I totally agree that backing off over and over pointlessly breaks up the pacing, but..

Well, with the new system, you're balancing that I see! I just want to know if it holds up well with your well of energy. Think of it this way: you can still get exhausted after facing so many zombies at once, in one fight.. right? Taking on eight zombies could still be a challenge, a daunting one; I cannot imagine a survivor kiting that many zombies around, beating them all down without getting winded, and then suddenly beginning to get tired from exhaustion hours later.

Maybe there could be temporary stamina, and then long-term? Use up your temporary stamina, and when you recover, that counts against your long-term energy?

As a demonstration, let's say we kill eight zombies in the morning. The last one goes down, but now you're out of breath.. some heard the scuffle, and are coming your way. You have to run off and hide because your stamina is low. Fighting them now would be suicide, because you're too slow to take on another horde. You use the remainder of your strength to quickly walk off and escape. Now you're back home. It's noon, and your body's a little bit tired. You've rested, you're not sleepy.. but if you took on eight more zombies, you would get more tired by the time you knocked down the fifth or sixth! And so on!

So basically, the more stamina you use, the less you have when you recover! Not only that, but you get less vigorous when you're ready again. After taking on a little horde and resting up, your strikes don't have that much oomph. Your running isn't as quick.

This might make firearms good for people who are overweight, or don't want to put up with fighting using stamina. As it stands, I think guns could use a little more affection; they're impractical and rare, with the system before. Melee is too simple and easy, while firearms are at the other end of the spectrum. Just, why bother?

It also makes stealth a more viable option, when it's more fleshed out! Sneaking becomes the way to go, as it should be.  I don't think anybody runs out and kills fifty zombies with a bat, in one day, without getting scratched, bitten, or maimed. Especially if he took them all on in chunks, rather than singling out the ones he needed to get rid of.

I may have slipped off the main point a little bit, but I still think this adds up to it. Just my thoughts.

I would just like to say, that I love that this game is getting some sounds.. but then, with all the small stuff (like opening and closing bags) some things really jarred me.

How come I don't hear anything when I close or open curtains? How about put up a curtain, too? I don't think I hear anything when I forage either. (Not sure about that, but the curtains, yes.)

Not to mention climbing through windows, hopping fences, (fishing? I don't know, I haven't fished, but I'm pretty sure you don't hear the reeling and stuff. Unsure.) There's no sound when traps catch something. Metal doors sound no different than wooden ones. I don't hear anything when I dump stuff on the floor, or when I use disinfectant. Yada-yada..

I just think these things bring us that much closer to a simulation! I would just get all tingly and happy to hear these.

I would just like to say, that I love that this game is getting some sounds.. but then, with all the small stuff (like opening and closing bags) some things really jarred me.

How come I don't hear anything when I close or open curtains? How about put up a curtain, too? I don't think I hear anything when I forage either. (Not sure about that, but the curtains, yes.)

Not to mention climbing through windows, hopping fences, (fishing? I don't know, I haven't fished, but I'm pretty sure you don't hear the reeling and stuff. Unsure.) There's no sound when traps catch something. Metal doors sound no different than wooden ones. I don't hear anything when I dump stuff on the floor, or when I use disinfectant. Yada-yada..

I just think these things bring us that much closer to a simulation! I would just get all tingly and happy to hear these.