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Okamikurainya

Door Overhaul

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My suggestion is for doors to have some new variables added to them.

Lock Type:
The lock type is exactly what it sounds like, the type of lock the door has.
These could be:

  • Dead Bolt -
    The most common type of lock, requires a key to lock and unlock from both sides.
  • Knob Lock -
    For some interior doors, a simple switch on the door handle. Can be unlocked without a key provided you are on the right side of the door. (this is how all, aside from the black magnet lock doors, doors currently function in game)
  • Magnet Lock -
    A rare type of lock that will lose functionality when the power goes out. Can be unlocked with a Security Key Card found in the building or on a local zombie. This type of lock cannot be broken, but comes with the caveat of needing power.


Lock Complexity:
A determining factor in the player's ability to pick a lock.

 

Lock Strength:
The structural strength of the lock.

 

Door Strength:
The structural strength of the door itself.

 

These would all be viewable through a "Door Structure" screen, ala the "Vehicle Mechanics" for vehicles.

 

With that out of the way, we can work off of that to suggest some new mechanics...

Lockpicking:
The ability to pick locks. You could use a variety of items to pick locks, including...

  • Paperclip -
    Breaks easily but fairly common.
  • Bobby Pin -
    Not as common, but abundant in hair salons. A little more durable than paperclips.
  • Crafted Lockpick -
    Crafted using tweezers and a nail. A little more durable than a bobby pin.
  • Lockpick -
    A very rare item, can be found in police stations most commonly. The most durable of all.
  • Bump Key - (Octopus)
    Maybe crafted with a hammer and a key, these are pretty noisy though.
  • Snap Gun - (Octopus)
    High chance of picking a lock, but requires a sort of "ammo", and may damage the lock.
  • Wire Hook - (Octopus)
    A lockpick specifically for car doors. You'd find Coat Hangers in bedroom closets which you'd then "Craft" into the Wire Hook. Alternatively you could craft them from rolls of wire. Easy to make, easy to break.
  • Slim Jim - (Octopus)
    A lockpick specifically for car doors. Very rare but very durable, you might find one in a repair shop or hardware store.


Door Latching:
Crafting an add-on for a door that enhances Lock Strength. If a player tries to open from the opposite side from the latch, they'll say "The Door is Barricaded".
This would come in a few flavours...

  • Simple Wooden Latch -
    Not very strong, but gets the job done early on.
  • Chain Hook -
    A bit stronger than a Wooden Latch.
  • Metal Latch -
    The strongest of the latches.

 

Door Barring:
Crafting an add-on for a door that enhances the Structural Strength of a door and prevents the lock from taking damage from kicks. As with Door Latching, a player will not be able to open the door from the opposite side of a barred door. You'd first craft a Door Bar Frame which you could then put a variety of objects into that will increase the amount of Structural Strength by varying degrees. A metal bar would work better than a plank, etc. When you unbar the door, the item that was being used to bar it will be added to your inventory.

 

Lock Breaking:

  • Door Kicking -
    Door kicking will have a chance to break the lock of the door without affecting the door's structural strength. Doing this would work relative to your strength and the Lock Strength of the door. This becomes harder if the door is latched or barred. While you may be able to get into houses more easily, this makes a lot of noise and a door may take a few kicks to break the lock. It will also render the door lockless, something you may not want if you're thinking of making that building a base.
  • Door Breaching - (Tails)
    Similar to kicking down the door, but with a higher success rate. Requires a crowbar to do so.

 

Zombie Opening:
An unlocked, unlatched or unbarred door will be at risk of being accidentally opened if a zombie starts pounding at it.

 

Door Materials:
Seems all doors are made out of wood at the moment... But in reality, they have a wide variety of materials.

  • Plywood -
    The weakest kind of door.
  • Wooden -
    Okay strength, easy to make and disassemble.
  • PVC -
    Okay strength, difficult to make and disassemble.
  • Metal -
    Good strength, makes a lot of noise when hit at.

 

Door Windows:
Some doors have windows in them, you'll be able to see through them and smash them to attempt unlocking the door in that way as well.

  • Ninja Rocks - (Octopus)
    Crafted from spark plugs, can be used to quietly break car windows.

 

If I missed anything or y'all have any other suggestions, let me know. :D

Edited by Okamikurainya

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Damn! I approve all of those.

 

There ARE already electric/magnetic doors in the game (check on the self storages and police stations), at least graphic-wise, same goes for doors with windows on top, and I always found annoying you couldn't just shatter the glass and stick your arm in to unlock them.

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2 hours ago, Octopus said:

This may be slightly outside the purview of this topic (seeing as how it deals with doors on buildings), but what about a slim jim for breaking into cars? Or even a plain old wire coathanger?

Added them in either way! It fits, especially if "Lockpicking" becomes its' own skill, which I think it should.

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I do not support:

Not a fan of door latching - that would make things unnecessarily annoying.

 

Zombie Opening doors would be terrible. Cause you would have ot lock every door - which from a gameplay mechanic is unnecessarily burdensome for the player. 

 

Lock Complexity again would also be annoying.  But the ability to pick locks is fine. 
lock picking skill should simply determine the time it takes to pick the lock with an RNG crit meter.
Adding more to the mechanic would only add to the frustration of player. 

Which is also part of the game as you can remove doors with a screwdriver 

 

Door kicking makes no sense - simply for the fact its easier to go through a Window. 

More importantly not affecting structural strength makes the least amount of sense out of everything.
The force of the impact goes from the door to the frame. In order for door kicking to work you have to destroy the door frame to unlock the door. Hence making the door useless.

 

I support:

Door Barring is fine - as they are technically easy to craft.
Metal Pipe + Rubber - also Door bars are portable - which means players can carry them around - use it and remove it.

 

Magnetic Locks would be a fun idea for players to open up loot troves by finding the panel to unlock the door.

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2 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Lock Complexity again would also be annoying.  But the ability to pick locks is fine. 
lock picking skill should simply determine the time it takes to pick the lock with an RNG crit meter.
Adding more to the mechanic would only add to the frustration of player. 

Lock complexity is absolutely fine. I can see nothing wrong with it. Potentially you'd be able to build doors which would be very hard to open without a key.

And skill should affect chance of success too. You wouldn't know how to lockpick a door without any skill, would you?

2 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Not a fan of door latching - that would make things unnecessarily annoying.

Why not? Bathrooms always have a lock inside, so why not using it?

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1 hour ago, Burger_Time said:

Lock complexity is absolutely fine. I can see nothing wrong with it. Potentially you'd be able to build doors which would be very hard to open without a key.

And skill should affect chance of success too. You wouldn't know how to lockpick a door without any skill, would you?

Why not? Bathrooms always have a lock inside, so why not using it?

 

Because there is a difference between real life and a game. 
You want games to be fun, not tedious busy work. 

 

OPs Idea
To Enter a House
Pick Door -> Open Door -> Latch Door -> Lock Door 

 

Exit House 
Unlatch -> Un Lock -> Open Door - Close Door

 

And you have to do all this by right clicking context menus on top if it. 

 

Current game
Open Door ( if not locked ) 

Close Door 

 

Done through single button press 

 

 

Essentially it would make the game unnecessarily frustrating in one of the most simplest aspects of the game, opening and closing a door. 

Edited by ZombieHunter

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pretty cool idea.

 

I was thinking of some door breaching methods like using a crowbar to pry a door open kinda like what a burglar would do to break into a house or a car.

 

 

Another idea is breaking the window on the door without destroying the entire door to find a way in.

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22 minutes ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

Because there is a difference between real life and a game. 
You want games to be fun, not tedious busy work. 

 

OPs Idea
To Enter a House
Pick Door -> Open Door -> Latch Door -> Lock Door 

 

Exit House 
Unlatch -> Un Lock -> Open Door - Close Door

 

And you have to do all this by right clicking context menus on top if it. 

 

Current game
Open Door ( if not locked ) 

Close Door 

 

Done through single button press 

 

 

Essentially it would make the game unnecessarily frustrating in one of the most simplest aspects of the game, opening and closing a door. 

Firstly not every door would be locked. Not a lotta Americans lock their houses apparently.

Secondly, why do you have to lock/latch a door when you enter a house? Even if zombies would be to open doors (which I really doubt), it will happen very rarely and won't be possible for zombie if you have to pull the door, not to mention you have to do it anyways in MP/Once NPCs come out.

Thirdly, you don't have to pick a lock to enter your house, and if it's not your house, why'd you lock the door?

And finally, when you exit the house, unlocking and unlatching can be done automatically, like it is right now if you have a key for a house.

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12 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

I do not support:

Not a fan of door latching - that would make things unnecessarily annoying.

You wouldn't have to (right click - select: Latch - wait), it would be no different than it is now, you just lock the door and the latches add to the lock strength, it may cause the locking progress bar to move a little slower if you have a latch, but hardly noticeable. Perhaps you could maybe even have four latch "slots" on the door info screen?
But regardless, nothing unnecessarily annoying, plenty of optional gameplay enhancements.
 

12 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

I do not support:

Lock Complexity again would also be annoying.  But the ability to pick locks is fine. 

lock picking skill should simply determine the time it takes to pick the lock with an RNG crit meter.
Adding more to the mechanic would only add to the frustration of player. 

Which is also part of the game as you can remove doors with a screwdriver

Not everyone can pick a lock, it's actually a very tricky practice and simply having everyone capable of doing so at the start would be OP and also negate the point of locking for things like multiplayer and NPCs.
Disassembling the door rather than attempting to pick it is a perfectly valid option with its' own, and very different, advantages and drawbacks.
 

12 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

I do not support:

Door kicking makes no sense - simply for the fact its easier to go through a Window. 

More importantly not affecting structural strength makes the least amount of sense out of everything.
The force of the impact goes from the door to the frame. In order for door kicking to work you have to destroy the door frame to unlock the door. Hence making the door useless.

What if there is no window? The various sheds dotted around sometimes lack them and you may not wish to destroy the door. Again, it's additive, not detrimental. Those who wouldn't kick down a door wouldn't and those who would can.
And yes, kicking it open destroys the lock, that is the caveat and something the player should weigh up.
 

8 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

Because there is a difference between real life and a game. 
You want games to be fun, not tedious busy work. 

 

OPs Idea
To Enter a House
Pick Door -> Open Door -> Latch Door -> Lock Door 

 

Exit House 
Unlatch -> Un Lock -> Open Door - Close Door

 

And you have to do all this by right clicking context menus on top if it. 

 

Current game
Open Door ( if not locked ) 

Close Door 

 

Done through single button press 

 

 

Essentially it would make the game unnecessarily frustrating in one of the most simplest aspects of the game, opening and closing a door. 

Again, it would all be optional and add to the flavour of the world.
You don't have to pick a lock, but you could. Latching should be part of the normal lock action in anycase, though barring should be a separate option.
 

7 hours ago, Burger_Time said:

Even if zombies would be to open doors (which I really doubt), it will happen very rarely and won't be possible for zombie if you have to pull the door

It's incredibly possible. Zombies are graspers, if they hook their hands on the handle, they'll most likely pull it down. Still, I think it shouldn't be possible with knob locks, only deadbolt locks which have the traditional handle rather than a doorknob. But yeah, wouldn't be very common.
 

7 hours ago, Burger_Time said:

not to mention you have to do it anyways in MP/Once NPCs come out.

Exactly! It will be a very important mechanic and will become moreso as the game develops.

7 hours ago, Tails said:

I was thinking of some door breaching methods like using a crowbar to pry a door open kinda like what a burglar would do to break into a house or a car.

Added!
 

7 hours ago, Tails said:

Another idea is breaking the window on the door without destroying the entire door to find a way in.

Already in. :D
 

Edited by Okamikurainya

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On 9/11/2019 at 7:54 PM, Burger_Time said:

Firstly not every door would be locked. Not a lotta Americans lock their houses apparently.

Secondly, why do you have to lock/latch a door when you enter a house? Even if zombies would be to open doors (which I really doubt), it will happen very rarely and won't be possible for zombie if you have to pull the door, not to mention you have to do it anyways in MP/Once NPCs come out.

Thirdly, you don't have to pick a lock to enter your house, and if it's not your house, why'd you lock the door?

And finally, when you exit the house, unlocking and unlatching can be done automatically, like it is right now if you have a key for a house.

 

Game first of all isn't based on reality, otherwise 50% of zombies would have a gun in Kentuky. 
Also door locking already exists in the game as locked doors. So that is a moot point.

 

Latches would be an extremely irritating factor because you did not consider how the player would have to interact with door locking and latching.
Which would mean right clicking on the door then chooing the option, having the little bar, then doing it for the other. Which means 3 actions to open a door and 2 of them are contextual.

 

The current system is once its unlocked, its unlocked forever. More importantly it can be done by simple "Use Key" which opens and closes the door. 

What does NPCs have anything to do with it? That point is nonsensical as Latches. No one even knows the NPC mechanics.

 

Murphys Law and Math. 

Murphys Law is of course self-explanatory

 

Math

Say the zombie had 1% chance to open the door per bump.

That means anytime between 1s and 1 minute 40s the door can randomly open if not locked.

More importantly, if multiple zombies are hitting the door that time drastically reduces.

 

Also why would I be talking about picking the lock to your base house? 
I am obviously talking about the other 5000+ houses and buildings with doors in-game where many of them will be locked. 
 

As I said before - not thought out at all. 

Door Bars are fine - Latches No. Locking Unnecessary. 

Zombies Opening Doors, No. 

 

21 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

You wouldn't have to (right click - select: Latch - wait), it would be no different than it is now, you just lock the door and the latches add to the lock strength, it may cause the locking progress bar to move a little slower if you have a latch, but hardly noticeable. Perhaps you could maybe even have four latch "slots" on the door info screen?
But regardless, nothing unnecessarily annoying, plenty of optional gameplay enhancements.
 

Not everyone can pick a lock, it's actually a very tricky practice and simply having everyone capable of doing so at the start would be OP and also negate the point of locking for things like multiplayer and NPCs.
Disassembling the door rather than attempting to pick it is a perfectly valid option with its' own, and very different, advantages and drawbacks.
 

What if there is no window? The various sheds dotted around sometimes lack them and you may not wish to destroy the door. Again, it's additive, not detrimental. Those who wouldn't kick down a door wouldn't and those who would can.
And yes, kicking it open destroys the lock, that is the caveat and something the player should weigh up.
 

Again, it would all be optional and add to the flavour of the world.
You don't have to pick a lock, but you could. Latching should be part of the normal lock action in anycase, though barring should be a separate option.
 

It's incredibly possible. Zombies are graspers, if they hook their hands on the handle, they'll most likely pull it down. Still, I think it shouldn't be possible with knob locks, only deadbolt locks which have the traditional handle rather than a doorknob. But yeah, wouldn't be very common.
 

Exactly! It will be a very important mechanic and will become moreso as the game develops.

Added!
 

Already in. :D
 

 

That would make latches pointless - as it serves same function as a Door bar.

Which would make it redundant, and as I said before Door bars are a great idea. 

 

So you have Pointless, Redundant, and Unnecessary and or Aggravating. 
But the word useful as a descriptor does not apply.

 

Lock Picking it self I did not have an issue with - it was the difference in types of lock and types of picks. 
This is unnecessary over-complicated mechanic for a game not about stealing. If the game was a Theif Sequel it would make sense, otherwise it does not.

 

Simpler solution would be to have Picking Difficulty tied directly to the door type. Plank Simplest - Metal Hardest.
Then throw in RNG success roll based on skill level.  It simplifies the system and allows existing systems to overlap.

To put it simply, higher quality the door, the harder it is to break and lockpick.

 

Latching doesn't add flavor it is unnecessary pollution of existing systems. 
it is like Putting a Rock into the center of a Meal. Serves no purpose to the meal, doesn't add flavor the meal, its not edible. 
Essentially no real benefit to existing systems. 

 

 

P.S To moderators,

For some reason the previous post is uneditable so I had to make another. 
No idea why but I think its because of how the Quote got bugged and empty space was added to the top. 

So if you want to Merge to the posts that would be great. 

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3 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Latches would be an extremely irritating factor because you did not consider how the player would have to interact with door locking and latching.

Which would mean right clicking on the door then chooing the option, having the little bar, then doing it for the other. Which means 3 actions to open a door and 2 of them are contextual.

 

22 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

You wouldn't have to (right click - select: Latch - wait), it would be no different than it is now, you just lock the door and the latches add to the lock strength, it may cause the locking progress bar to move a little slower if you have a latch, but hardly noticeable. Perhaps you could maybe even have four latch "slots" on the door info screen?
But regardless, nothing unnecessarily annoying, plenty of optional gameplay enhancements.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 

3 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

The current system is once its unlocked, its unlocked forever. More importantly it can be done by simple "Use Key" which opens and closes the door. 


What does NPCs have anything to do with it? That point is nonsensical as Latches. No one even knows the NPC mechanics.

Occam's razor.
Survivors will be out trying to survive, eventually, and they'll very possibly attempt to raid your base. More options to defend yourself from other survivors, whether player or NPC, is important. Not nonsensical, but deductive reasoning based on issues at hand with other players as well as case studies such as Super Survivors where an unlocked door can spell your doom. It would lengthen the time taken to break into a well fortified base and so give more opportunities for the base owner to return and catch the other player/survivor in the act. It would also give you more time to prepare and plan if you're inside the base.

 

3 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Math

Say the zombie had 1% chance to open the door per bump.

That means anytime between 1s and 1 minute 40s the door can randomly open if not locked.

More importantly, if multiple zombies are hitting the door that time drastically reduces.

Sounds like incentive to lock your doors... (shrugs)
I get where you're coming from though, but I still disagree. Making sure you're secure is part of the thrill of the zombie apocalypse for me, it's the small mistakes that will be the end of you. It incentivizes base building and post-self-sufficiency gameplay. You might not have the keys to your base and it will give you the option of going out, dismantling doors, finding the parts and keys you need, building or modifying the doors in your base to be as secure as possible.

 

3 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

That would make latches pointless - as it serves same function as a Door bar.

Which would make it redundant, and as I said before Door bars are a great idea.

Not at all, latches enhance Lock Strength whilst door bars enhance Structural Strength, leading to different methods for different players for securing and breaking into buildings/bases.

 

3 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Lock Picking it self I did not have an issue with - it was the difference in types of lock and types of picks. 

This is unnecessary over-complicated mechanic for a game not about stealing. If the game was a Theif Sequel it would make sense, otherwise it does not.

I disagree entirely with this... There are locks, they require keys, keys aren't always available, the locks can be picked, it enhances gameplay and there is a Burglar occupation prebuilt into the game... For a survival game with locked doors, it makes more sense to be here than nearly any other game. Again, it would be entirely optional and far from overly-complicated.
Burglar occupation? Well you got the ability to pick locks from the get go. How to do it, right click on door, pick lock. Otherwise you'd need to find a magazine to teach you.

Different types of lockpicks makes as much sense as two different kinds of axe or hammer. You have the easily breakable ones used by necessity and you have the higher quality and more focused ones for longer term use.
I legit can't see what you mean here. :(

 

3 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Simpler solution would be to have Picking Difficulty tied directly to the door type. Plank Simplest - Metal Hardest.

Personally disagree, as it takes away a fair bit of the idea, such as seeking out individual locks and using the best ones for the construction or renovation of your doors, which was what set me on the path to this suggestion in the first place. It also isn't intuitive as the material of the door has no effect on a locks pickability.
 

3 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Then throw in RNG success roll based on skill level.  It simplifies the system and allows existing systems to overlap.

To put it simply, higher quality the door, the harder it is to break and lockpick.

Or simply the higher the Lock Complexity, the harder it is to lockpick. The higher quality the door, the harder it is to break.

 

3 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Latching doesn't add flavor it is unnecessary pollution of existing systems. 

it is like Putting a Rock into the center of a Meal. Serves no purpose to the meal, doesn't add flavor the meal, its not edible. 
Essentially no real benefit to existing systems.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. :unsure:
But, speaking of food, thanks for giving me food for thought. No idea is free from the need for refinement at first and there are probably ways in which this one can be refined.

Edited by Okamikurainya

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Thought of a few more suggestions for lock-circumnavigation:

 

Bump Key - Essentially a specially-key cut (almost looks like a blank key) designed to be "bumped" in a lock, moving the pins momentarily and allowing the lock cylinder to be turned.

 

Snap Gun - I don't have any excuse for forgetting to mention this in my other post - seeing as I actually own one. A snap gun is essentially a gun-shaped mechanical lock pick. Insert the "barrel" into the lock, pull the trigger, and turn the cylinder with a tension wrench. Easy to use, but with a slight chance of breaking the lock. Electric versions also exist.

 

Ninja Rocks - Another tool for breaking into cars. Ninja rocks are broken shards of ceramic spark plugs that can be thrown at a car window to silently break it. Useful for when you need to quickly get into a locked car without alerting nearby zombies. Only works with car windows.

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3 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

Survivors will be out trying to survive, eventually, and they'll very possibly attempt to raid your base.

You are drastically over estimating the capabilities of the Ai.  The complex Ai logic the more lag it generates. Which means having complex functional Ai is not going to happen, which is why you don't see it any game. They either are tied to a specific spot to form routing functions for ambiance ( RPG Towns : Witcher \ Skyrim \ Fallout ) or attached to premade events ( Fallout \ Skyrim \ Starbound ) or randomly spawning roaming as a different enemy type.

 

Keep in mind there is a big difference between a scripted event and one that requires Ai logic. Scripted events are easy to perform because you can say exactly where to go and what to do and what specifically to do where. Ai logic on the otherhand the NPC has to be placed at a Procedurally generated place ( because you can'spend 1 month putting spots for each and every house manually ) then you would have to make some amazingly complex code which has to account for 

1. Zombie Ai 

2. pathing Ai

3. Action priority 

 

It isn't as simple as, "find door with player inside, open door"

3 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

deductive reasoning

 

In order for there to be "Deductive reasoning," there has to be multiple premises. There isn't even 1. 

4 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

It would lengthen the time taken to break into a well fortified base

Sledgehammer + Wall = 1s to break into base. No Door Necessary.

Get a Police Car + Turn on Sirens drive it in front of persons base.  Zombies will break down the doors and windows and everything you need for you. 

 

To put it bluntly, No, it would not lengthen any time, or provide any extra benefit.

The only thing it would lengthen is a frustration to the player of an unnecessary stop gap.

 

4 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

I legit can't see what you mean here

 

Same reason games like Elder Scrolls \ Fallout \ Dues Ex \ Splinter cell 
All use a single lock pick system.  ( Though technically Skyrim has 2 different types of lockpicks but functions the same in the end ) 

 

They didn't add 5+ different locks and lockpicks because it added unnecessary burden to the player. It is also why the games were successful because it kept the mechanics simple. 
Even Thief - a game about essentially breaking and entering into houses ended up using only a single set. 

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18 minutes ago, ZombieHunter said:

You are drastically over estimating the capabilities of the Ai.  The complex Ai logic the more lag it generates. Which means having complex functional Ai is not going to happen, which is why you don't see it any game. They either are tied to a specific spot to form routing functions for ambiance ( RPG Towns : Witcher \ Skyrim \ Fallout ) or attached to premade events ( Fallout \ Skyrim \ Starbound ) or randomly spawning roaming as a different enemy type.

 

Keep in mind there is a big difference between a scripted event and one that requires Ai logic. Scripted events are easy to perform because you can say exactly where to go and what to do and what specifically to do where. Ai logic on the otherhand the NPC has to be placed at a Procedurally generated place ( because you can'spend 1 month putting spots for each and every house manually ) then you would have to make some amazingly complex code which has to account for 

1. Zombie Ai 

2. pathing Ai

3. Action priority 

 

It isn't as simple as, "find door with player inside, open door"

 

In order for there to be "Deductive reasoning," there has to be multiple premises. There isn't even 1. 


The premise is set up in the foundation of the paragraph:

4 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

Occam's razor.

Survivors will be out trying to survive, eventually, and they'll very possibly attempt to raid your base. More options to defend yourself from other survivors, whether player or NPC, is important. Not nonsensical, but deductive reasoning based on issues at hand with other players as well as case studies such as Super Survivors where an unlocked door can spell your doom.

Super Survivors is a mod, that exists, that has incredibly rudimentary NPCs. If these NPCs are even a fraction as advanced as the official NPCs, then having the ability to secure your base in more ways and to have the tools at hand necessary to circumvent other survivor bases and/or lootable building's locks in a manner which does the least damage and attracts the least attention is a worthwhile addition.
Speaking from personal experience, I had a nice cushy base with a group of NPCs from the mod and we were just getting ready to set out on an expedition to the Rural Town for supplies... All seemed good, we'd gotten fairly placid... And then BAM! Raiders throw open our unlocked doors and start to pour in, I was the only one who survived, and barely at that. Not only was my entire group killed, but my base was overtaken as well.
If as rudimentary of an AI NPC, such as those from Super Survivors, can do such, even a slightly more advanced one would be able to.
Premise - case study - repeatable with easily downloaded resources.
 

27 minutes ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

Sledgehammer + Wall = 1s to break into base. No Door Necessary.

Get a Police Car + Turn on Sirens drive it in front of persons base.  Zombies will break down the doors and windows and everything you need for you.

Those two are perfectly valid techniques, each with their own pitfalls.
Sledgeing a wall will destroy the wall. Depending on the circumstances, that may not be desirable.

Luring zombies to take down a base leads to a zombie infestation, that again may not be desirable.

 

30 minutes ago, ZombieHunter said:

Same reason games like Elder Scrolls \ Fallout \ Dues Ex \ Splinter cell 

All use a single lock pick system.  ( Though technically Skyrim has 2 different types of lockpicks but functions the same in the end ) 

 

They didn't add 5+ different locks and lockpicks because it added unnecessary burden to the player. It is also why the games were successful because it kept the mechanics simple. 
Even Thief - a game about essentially breaking and entering into houses ended up using only a single set. 

Skyrim has a base lockpick and the Skeleton Key.
Skyrim also has varying lock complexity.
I don't see the issue or complexity with what I suggested as it fits very in line with what has been previously established in the game.
Paper clips (I've used these to pick locks myself) are common but break easily, not good if you're trying to pick a complex lock. (it should be noted that these are already in the game)
Bobby Pins are more desirable as they're sturdier. Many hair products are already in the game, these wouldn't fall out of line with what is already established.
Crafted Lockpicks are items of necessity, sometimes you won't have certain items like paper clips or bobby pins and you'll still want to have validation for your burglar run.
Actual Lockpicks are holy grail items, the best of the line and a reward for the Burglar type character.

As for complexity, it's no more complex than selecting which bottle of water to fill at a sink. You right click the door, you select the pick from the lockpick menu, you attempt to pick the lock.

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1 hour ago, Octopus said:

Thought of a few more suggestions for lock-circumnavigation:

 

Bump Key - Essentially a specially-key cut (almost looks like a blank key) designed to be "bumped" in a lock, moving the pins momentarily and allowing the lock cylinder to be turned.

 

Snap Gun - I don't have any excuse for forgetting to mention this in my other post - seeing as I actually own one. A snap gun is essentially a gun-shaped mechanical lock pick. Insert the "barrel" into the lock, pull the trigger, and turn the cylinder with a tension wrench. Easy to use, but with a slight chance of breaking the lock. Electric versions also exist.

 

Ninja Rocks - Another tool for breaking into cars. Ninja rocks are broken shards of ceramic spark plugs that can be thrown at a car window to silently break it. Useful for when you need to quickly get into a locked car without alerting nearby zombies. Only works with car windows.


Added!

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14 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

Super Survivors is a mod, that exists, that has incredibly rudimentary NPCs. If these NPCs are even a fraction as advanced as the official NPCs, then having the ability to secure your base in more ways and to have the tools at hand necessary to circumvent other survivor bases and/or lootable building's locks in a manner which does the least damage and attracts the least attention is a worthwhile addition.

 

Super survivors did a great job, but in the end of the day it is mindless drones that don't think. Not some sort of smart survivors trying to survive in the game.

Say they used simplistic logic where they spawn the raiders outside of area as a Helicopter event,  then have them b-line toward the player location and break into what ever house they are in.

 

Now you have a gameplay balance issue - if they can easily sneak in without making noise and kill the player in a game with Rogue like features - there really is no effective counter the player has which would result in easy deaths and frustration.  Which goes back to what happened to you. It wasn't the fact the Ai was super smart to kill you, it was the opposite. The Ai was basic it directly attacked you with no regard for it self. 

 

In games like Rimworld - such mechanics are fine - because you control multiple characters at once. Allowing you to physically tell them where to go and stand and fight.  So if you lose 1 or 2 people in a raid no problem.

In games like GTA ( 1 and 2 ) Streets of Rogue again it is fine. The reason being you can always see where the enemy is coming from and the direction they are coming from to counter. 

So the problem here is 2 fold

1. You didn't think about gameplay balancing one bit, only "How cool it sounds"

2. How complex programming would have to be to make it fair for the player. 

 

14 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

Luring zombies to take down a base leads to a zombie infestation, that again may not be desirable.

 

Its extremely easy to remove Zombies -  just do the same technique in reverse. Make a loud noise and have them chase you ( the noise ) . Then sweep up the remaining in the building.

Like I said extremely simple solutions that would make "latches" quite meaningless.

 

15 hours ago, Okamikurainya said:

Skyrim has a base lockpick and the Skeleton Key.
Skyrim also has varying lock complexity.

 

One didn't break - that was the only difference. 

I think you missed the point by miles. Skyrim didn't have different locks or lockpicks ( skeleton key just had infinite durability ) 

It was always the same lock and only the complexity of that same lock changed.

 

See the simple solution to a mechanic. Overcomplicate things and it is a near guaranteed failure. 

 

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8 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

 

Super survivors did a great job, but in the end of the day it is mindless drones that don't think. Not some sort of smart survivors trying to survive in the game.

Say they used simplistic logic where they spawn the raiders outside of area as a Helicopter event,  then have them b-line toward the player location and break into what ever house they are in.

Yip! That's what I said. :P
 

8 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Now you have a gameplay balance issue - if they can easily sneak in without making noise and kill the player in a game with Rogue like features - there really is no effective counter the player has which would result in easy deaths and frustration.  Which goes back to what happened to you. It wasn't the fact the Ai was super smart to kill you, it was the opposite. The Ai was basic it directly attacked you with no regard for it self.

Exactly!

 

8 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

1. You didn't think about gameplay balancing one bit, only "How cool it sounds"

The entire point of it was balance... Door locking and picking isn't exactly the coolest thing in the world. :wacko:
Each of the points in the original main post were carefully weighed up, there's far more depth I could have waded into but the basics here are what constitutes, in my eyes, fun gameplay which I imagine the developers would add on their own if their focus was on it. Each lock is balanced in some way, everything is scaled.
You could say I didn't do it right, but saying I didn't think about balancing is flat out wrong. :huh:
 

8 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

2. How complex programming would have to be to make it fair for the player.

But it really isn't complex and, again, the whole point of it is fairness to the player.
 

8 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

Its extremely easy to remove Zombies -  just do the same technique in reverse. Make a loud noise and have them chase you ( the noise ) . Then sweep up the remaining in the building.

Like I said extremely simple solutions that would make "latches" quite meaningless.

But again, that's a fair strategy, but you may not want to do that because of the cleanup and damage. You may not want the risk, especially with herds being far more dangerous in upcoming releases, as stated by the devs.
 

8 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

One didn't break - that was the only difference. 

I think you missed the point by miles. Skyrim didn't have different locks or lockpicks ( skeleton key just had infinite durability ) 

It was always the same lock and only the complexity of that same lock changed.

Which is... Basically exactly what I suggested. :huh:
 

8 hours ago, ZombieHunter said:

See the simple solution to a mechanic. Overcomplicate things and it is a near guaranteed failure.

Again, I can't see it. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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