Rathlord Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Dunno, seems to me like there's a really good range of servers for PZ, covering a wide spectrum of easy-to-hard and all the options in between. Just my 2c, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syfy Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 i think its all endet up like minecraft servers today server full of mods,fire and other stuff that can destroy things are deactivated and pvp is not allowed .............then after 2 years you cant find any mp server where people play like in the walking dead series.the play like its not an survival game or something else. every time an game has an good potential for an very hard mp survival too many server owners make it too easy or deactivate all things that find their playersannoying how dare the people who are setting up, running and/or paying for their servers choose to play how they want too. scandalous!! if you don't like the way other servers are running, make your own.if you can't be bothered to do that, then you have no right to complain about the people who did take matters into their own hands and set up their server to play their way. at least they tried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Bailey Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I ♥ Bandits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommysticks Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 If it looks like crap, smells like crap, and tastes like crap it is probably crap. If you choose a play style that makes everyone call you an asshole...I think this thread is best left to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathlord Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 If you choose a play style that makes everyone call you an asshole... Guess it's a good thing you don't speak for "everyone," then. Leandro_ar27 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValueOfGravity Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 As much as i would like to raid someone's safehouse and wear their supplies as a trophies, i hate the fact that another human being has to sit through the character creation and the loading screens for the second time. Then again, survival of the fittest, right? Go Team Bandit ! EnigmaGrey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bower Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I suppose people don't enjoy when you kill their high level character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValueOfGravity Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Fell from a rooftop, collapsed to diseases, died of hunger or thirst, or any of the causes of death in PZ, at the end of the day, you die. Everybody dies.Some just need a little help . If you got the ''Everybody Dies'' reference, well +1 imaginary points to you. You have been taken a step upward on the list of people i will go in a near-death situation to give supplies to. Well, supplies or bullets to the face. It depends on my mood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurvivingTestSubject Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Being an asshole in chat afterwords is not equivalent to the action itself. And everyone playing on the PvP server is still subjecting themselves to it, intentionally. There's no opinion involved. You are stabbing yourself in the hand and blaming the knife. Play on a server that doesn't allow KOS or don't. Either way, you don't get to bitch about other players playing within the rules. It's illogical and more wrong than what they're doing. There's no one who thinks raping children isn't a dick move that's not sick in the head. If you make another hyperbolic and offensive statement like this, I will remove you from these forums. You can either debate in a logical, friendly fashion, or find a new forum to be a part of. Comparing people following server rules to child rapists is sick.Well... actually it is sort of apart of it.It takes a certain personality type and by personality type I mean personality disorder type. Antisocial specifically.I am sure there are lots of people who like the pvp who aren't antisocial but I would be surprised if their numbers is anything but a small minority of players...So... I think we would all agree that crime is crime... and violent crime is likely to be considered wrong by most people... but then there are people who don't think it wrong and seem to have something about them that makes them twisted about it... and that makes it worse. There is a difference between someone who commits a crime because the good ole fashioned malicious and criminal intention BUT the person who commits crime because they are just doing what god ordained them to do against parasites who were mistakenly given rights is sort of a special tier that elicits a stronger reaction from those of us not so disordered and with conscience.Maybe you don't like that comparison... but its the group that I notice runs with the pvp group here and every other other game that I have ever encountered. People choose to play pvp, but they don't choose to subject themselves to bullies who are antisocial misfits who have found a little spot online.Which as my last post pointed out... you just got to sort of avoid them... because the internet hasn't gotten the laws yet to weed them out yet. But the laws are on the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathlord Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm sorry, but comparing people following the rules of a PvP server to people committing crimes or having serious personality disorders is still wrong. Your observations about people are anecdotal non-evidence at best and fairly offensive at worst. Painting a whole group of people based on your biased as "probably mostly mentally ill" is completely closed minded. You not liking people isn't equivalent to them being mentally ill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diomedes57 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 A game is a fantasy escape. Some fantasies are power, control, manipulation. Others are farming and sparing a new survivor an axe. Play friendly on pvp KoS servers. It is what cool kids do.This is the best game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paprika Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm going to throw my two cents at this, and little is new under this scorching sun.I am what most players in the server I play on could be considered bipolar. I will help and heal you, or dump a full magazine of 9mm in your back. Occasionally I'll even toy with people by hitting them with a single round and make them bleed out for pissing me off, in a sense the possibilities are endless.But there is one thing I don't do. Change my name. The amount hostility and rage associated with my name is notable, yet if needed I can still set up a trade.My point is this. People need to where you stand, and if they cant figure out why you cull the population of cities, let them have some guide of reference they actually do understand. People, most at least, associate names with actions. This is especially prevalent in online gameplay. Most people will disregard and ignore minor damage to the ecosystem regardless of your "cooperation" to their ideals.Secondly, while pvp is one of my favorite pass times in project zomboid, being a pkk is actaully more enjoyable. Being a PKK means player killer killer, meaning those who actually reload broken saves, and those with the good shit, are my real targets. It's amazing what the average player holds, but ammo can be annoying to find in public servers. Tl;dr: How you use ur name changes everything online from notoriety to respect, hold some morals, and it's more beneficial to you and your sanity to kill others like you or worse. Otherwise your cherry picked newbie kills will literally leave from the rage of feeling hopeless (I wish I was kidding). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurvivingTestSubject Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm sorry, but comparing people following the rules of a PvP server to people committing crimes or having serious personality disorders is still wrong. Your observations about people are anecdotal non-evidence at best and fairly offensive at worst. Painting a whole group of people based on your biased as "probably mostly mentally ill" is completely closed minded. You not liking people isn't equivalent to them being mentally ill.There is nothing in the rules about the kind of verbal harassment, bullying, hate speech, or belittlement that I have seen to others...Candidly this is the only sort of behavior I have witnessed on these sorts of servers, I note that its only hand full of people giving running commentary to everyone else, as a sort of self-gratification and self-justification...But no... there is nothing non-evidence about it. [ first link ] I am not sure why but it desperately wanted to keep linking to the times article... [ http://time.com/8265/internet-trolls-are-actually-sadists-study-finds/ ]The whole concept of going online to harass, demean, gain attention, or be otherwise abusive is thoroughly antisocial... you would be very very very hard pressed to find any medical or scientific literature to disagree with this.And it doesn't have anything to do with like or disliking them... I admit its not all of them but as I said I would be very very surprised if its not a supermajority of them. It just has to do it takes a certain personality type and/or personality disorder. And while I also admit I am not particularly fond of them I don't think admitting facts or aligning malbehavior with DSM definitions is somehow 'wrong'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vichiox Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 They kill you? Hide an take paybackIf you don't like to hurt people because you only want to lvl your skills and survive with other players, go to a PVE and not a goddamn PVP.If you want realistic bandits, play RP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayman Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 SurvivingTestSubject You may be biased in your view of bandits. Maybe, because you already dislike them, you later make them fit into your "they are antisocial misfits" box, when in reality, they are behaving no worse than other people online. As a bandit myself, i do find your prejudice views quite offensive. Killing people in a killing-people-game (PVP server, where KOS is ok) is not being a bully. "There is nothing in the rules about the kind of verbal harassment, bullying, hate speech, or belittlement that I have seen to others..."Like i said, i have seen this stuff a lot from plenty of "friendly" people. What im saying, is that fx being a dick in chat, and being a bandit are unrelated. Have you never seen a non-bandit being an asshole, or have you just not paid attention to it, and therefore can not remember it? Paprika 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuspectHam Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Problem is just that. You can be offline, leveled up and superior to other MP players when you come in. Do it legit and it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurvivingTestSubject Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 SurvivingTestSubject You may be biased in your view of bandits. Maybe, because you already dislike them, you later make them fit into your "they are antisocial misfits" box, when in reality, they are behaving no worse than other people online. As a bandit myself, i do find your prejudice views quite offensive. Killing people in a killing-people-game (PVP server, where KOS is ok) is not being a bully. "There is nothing in the rules about the kind of verbal harassment, bullying, hate speech, or belittlement that I have seen to others..."Like i said, i have seen this stuff a lot from plenty of "friendly" people. What im saying, is that fx being a dick in chat, and being a bandit are unrelated. Have you never seen a non-bandit being an asshole, or have you just not paid attention to it, and therefore can not remember it?If you read carefully its not the pvp gameplay or bandit aspect in of itself that is the issue...If you don't get that you are not even on the same battle field of thought... or the same conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayman Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Is your point not that the far most of bandits are anti social?"It takes a certain personality type and by personality type I mean personality disorder type. Antisocial specifically.I am sure there are lots of people who like the pvp who aren't antisocial but I would be surprised if their numbers is anything but a small minority of players..."Are you not linking being a troll, an asshole and anti social with being a bandit? Saying that it's a very small minority that are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayman Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 I honestly think that this whole discussion is about what i have mentioned a few times earlier, namely that we view the point/core aspect of the game differently. Some people think that being a bandit, looter and PK'er is morally wrong (Even on a PVP server where KOS is legal), because the point of the game is surviving together with other players, and some people think it is just fine to be a bandit. I personally wouldn't play the game if there was no constant danger from other players, that means either being killed or my base raided.SurvivingTestSubject you link to an article about trolling and say: "The whole concept of going online to harass, demean, gain attention, or be otherwise abusive is thoroughly antisocial... you would be very very very hard pressed to find any medical or scientific literature to disagree with this." One of my points is that you assume that when people kill in PVP servers, they are doing it for attention, harassing and just gernerally being a troll, but i don't think that, that is the case. Some people just think that PVP is fun, and a core part of the game. I would be very interested in how you came to the conclusion that bandits are killing, looting and the like, just to troll and annoy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurvivingTestSubject Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Is your point not that the far most of bandits are anti social?"It takes a certain personality type and by personality type I mean personality disorder type. Antisocial specifically.I am sure there are lots of people who like the pvp who aren't antisocial but I would be surprised if their numbers is anything but a small minority of players..."Are you not linking being a troll, an asshole and anti social with being a bandit? Saying that it's a very small minority that are not.My point is that playing a game that revolves around this kind of gameplay and that this gameplay is not only permissible but on some level advantageous there is nothing wrong or disordered in of itself. However it is understandable I think that it would attract a certain kind of player. That is the personality type part of this. This aspect of it I think can be charming and just apart of game play. I think it is possible too that even someone with antisocial tendencies or disorder could easily play well... Despite how the general population speaks of mental unhealth I am not one to use it as a personal insult or a judgment on a person's character in of itself.But the kind of bandit/pvp that I see here is with a lot of antisocial malbehaviors such as 'verbal harassment, bullying, hate speech, or belittlement'... which I have mentioned over and over and over again... Which seems to be the reoccurring complaint that some people seem to be coming to deliberately make other peoples gameplay unenjoyable and that is the game for them... that is how they get their fun. Making other people not have fun and on some level suffer. That is by definition antisocial.And from my casual observation theres a lot of it here... and it sort of makes sense considering what kind of game this is. And it wouldn't surprise me if its a supermajority who fall into this category of tendency or disorder when it comes to who engage in this sort of malbehavior.So do you see the spectrum there? This isnt 'bandit bad, 'pvp bad', 'I angry and sad, listen to me'. This is a pretty nuanced and fair opinion I would think. I am really just repeating myself here from past posts here... but perhaps condensing it out will help in understanding.The counter-argument seems to be is that this antisocial/malbehavior is unrelated to pvp/bandit playing... and I think that is specious at best. I think a way of articulating it in a way that I would agree with is that its not all... and I agree its not all. However as you have noted I would be surprised if it wasn't most.If you don't notice it... I'm a little curious to what game you are playing because it certainly isn't Project Zomboid. Personally I would like the ability to mute the chat/certain users... or at least to have a word filter... just to stop the torrents and torrents and torrents of homophobic and possibly repressed homosexual desires I have see in the prepubescent kind of clatter that happens on these servers... And the thing that really surprises me is that all of this is clearly bullying, clearly hate speech, and clearly out of place... NONE of it is needed to pvp/bandit in the game. But it appears to be more than amply tolerated and even encouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathlord Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 You seem to vastly overestimate the amount of people with real antisocial disorders; however, that's not particularly surprising given the amount of armchair psuedopsychology here. You're more than welcome to your opinion, but from a statistical and objective standpoint you're wrong. Sometimes assholes are just assholes, and trying to shove them into a mental illness corner isn't helpful or realistic. Paprika and syfy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Yes, many servers banning people for harassment, hate speech, and other Unlovely acts is clearly encouraging it wholesale. Whether PVP or PVE, assholes exist and are often vocal about it. They are often rejected because of it. Rathlord and Paprika 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurvivingTestSubject Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Yes, many servers banning people for harassment, hate speech, and other Unlovely acts is clearly encouraging it wholesale. Whether PVP or PVE, assholes exist and are often vocal about it. They are often rejected because of it.I very rarely see it. But since you are an admin I am sure you see the banning/administering aspect of it more often than I.But do you think that they aren't there or at no different frequency? Because my experience has been radically different. You seem to vastly overestimate the amount of people with real antisocial disorders; however, that's not particularly surprising given the amount of armchair psuedopsychology here. You're more than welcome to your opinion, but from a statistical and objective standpoint you're wrong. Sometimes assholes are just assholes, and trying to shove them into a mental illness corner isn't helpful or realistic.Statical and objective... meaning your opinion? Sources???At least I took the time to clearly define my claim and provide some sourcing. Just by the burden of evidence I seem to be the only one that has furnished any at all regarding the psychology involved.So basically you disagree... and you are welcome to your opinion... but its merely that. Your opinion. But if you are going to pretend that there is some sort of evidence or reasoning behind your claim other than that you disagree at this point... I don't see it... because its not there.If you have some I more than welcome and urge you to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathlord Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Studies are publicly available that show the prevalence of personality disorders in the general population. That amount is fairly low (although much higher than I'm comfortable with), meaning statistically speaking the likelihood of an overwhelming majority of PZ bandits suffering from antisocial disorder is unlikely at best. But regardless, assuming you have the knowledge necessary to diagnose people you've never met or even spoken a single word to with a personality disorder from the comfort of your armchair shows both incredible hubris and a disrespect for the overall complexity of the field, especially since no real professional would ever stoop to such unscientific and offensive diagnostic methods. Again, you're just painting people you don't like with mental illness for the sole reason that you don't like them. That's not my opinion, it's fact- for the simple reason of it being impossible to diagnose someone with a mental illness when you haven't met or gotten to know them in any way, shape, or form. I'm glad you can treat the subject with such careless levity, though, since the subject of mental illness is a fairly serious one for many of us. Blasted_Taco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurvivingTestSubject Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Studies are publicly available that show the prevalence of personality disorders in the general population. That amount is fairly low (although much higher than I'm comfortable with), meaning statistically speaking the likelihood of an overwhelming majority of PZ bandits suffering from antisocial disorder is unlikely at best.Sources... sources... sources... please. I more than welcome and urge it. Meaning I insist. If you are going to blatantly call me wrong I expect more than just more words.But by saying 'general population'... you are already hinting that doesn't mean project zomboid bandits... Apples to oranges. But regardless, assuming you have the knowledge necessary to diagnose people you've never met or even spoken a single word to with a personality disorder from the comfort of your armchair shows both incredible hubris and a disrespect for the overall complexity of the field, especially since no real professional would ever stoop to such unscientific and offensive diagnostic methods. Again, you're just painting people you don't like with mental illness for the sole reason that you don't like them. That's not my opinion, it's fact- for the simple reason of it being impossible to diagnose someone with a mental illness when you haven't met or gotten to know them in any way, shape, or form.I am not claiming to diagnose anyone. I am just speaking as by definition of the kind of behavior that is being permitted would [seemingly] attract a certain kind of person and the kind of malbehavior (which no one seems to disagree is malbehavior) does seem to fit by definition antisocial dysfunction.And no... I am sure there are people who really do have antisocial disorder and they have learned to play just fine... Antisocial disorder does not mean they are twats. I've stated this before.So there are no facts here... at least not from what you are saying. I'm glad you can treat the subject with such careless levity, though, since the subject of mental illness is a fairly serious one for many of us.I don't think its levity or careless... I think its just an admission that these people will come and certain precautions are advisable and understanding for other users that when they encounter this that its not something that is so controllable for these people. But personal attacks aside. I take that as you don't have any sources... just more claims and counter-claims. Thank you.As I said before you are welcome to your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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