FMOD Balancing, A Few Bugs Too (Will Be Edited As More is Found)

[BayCon]

FMOD IS AWESOME OMG!!!! As a music producer and mixing engineer, this is a real treat for me. However, as we producers know, no mix is perfect. Here are some things I noticed about FMOD. My other bugs will be at the bottom.

 

First, let me tell you what sound system I am using:

The 46W Cyber Acoustics ca-3908 2.1 Powered Sound System With Control Pod

https://www.google.com/search?q=cyber+acoustics+ca-3908&gws_rd=ssl#

 

I will be testing it on my Bose QC25's soon.

 

 

My Thoughts/Observations About FMOD using The ca-309 2.1 Speaker System:

 

- Intro

No other upcoming feature (since I've hopped on the PZ train) has ever excited me. I haven't even tried... anything (aside from gameplay changes I can't control) from Build 32! I'm still playing like it's Build 29.3, when I joined. FMOD, however, as soon as it was announced, made me go crazy. Therefore, I am overjoyed about how this will change the game. 

 

- I think the sound projection is fantastic.

I'm talking about 5.1-type of fantastic. For the most part, everything represented visually is in the same place on my stereo speakers' soundstage. A zombie was banging on a window behind my character and I didn't know. It at first sounded like a tapping on the wall behind me in real life! EDIT: I often find myself looking directly at the window or door that is being attacked now because the directional sound is so good!

 

- TIS has utilized FMOD spectacularly, to make sound more dynamic and alive.

The reverb never sounds the same when a sound is played, even if you stand in the same place. Truly dynamic. As I said in the previous bullet, the sound projection is so accurate that you can easily pinpoint the source of many sounds. Not all, but many. The sounds don't feel glued to their position on the soundstage either, they feel very flexable and move around the player's ears well enough.

 

- Door Banging is ridiculously loud.

I'm not sure if zombies are supposed to sound like riot police slamming a log against a door for a raid, but that's what it reminds me of. Sounds very powerful because it's so loud. It fills up probably 40 - 60% of my subwoofer even when I'm not terribly close to the door, which leads me to my next note.

 

- Window Banging is ridiculously quiet.

It's so quiet, in fact, that it almost blends in with the ambient sounds. Almost...

 

- Player created sounds often mask ambient sounds, and ambient sounds don't fade in appropriately.

A fridge is silent one minute, and the moment I step in 1 block away from it, it can be heard. Not a great fade-in. Try something like stepping in 5 blocks away before it can fade in? EDIT: In other houses, bad fade-in for dripping sinks, fridges, etc don't even happen. This shows how well they've utilized FMOD in a dynamic sense.

 

On top of that, some sounds can't be heard over the music, which is initially turned up too high. I had to move it down to around half the volume of the ambience, and move the sound down as well. Footsteps can drown out buzzing refrigerators, but not things like the creaking of houses while indoors, which have more stereo spreading. In other words, it was a good call adding those volume sliders, RJ >.>

 

- Dogs are God.

Have you ever seen the movies where God is speaking and it's got a whole lot of reverb and fills the whole soundstage? Well a dog barked and it sounded exactly like that. There was no direction to it, and it was covered in excess reverb. Might be a bug though. (More on your reverb later).

 

- Muffled Door banging is too muffled.

I can hardly hear it at all because it competes with other ambient sounds.

 

- In general, the lower-quality sounds need some equalization.

When working with 3D sound or advanced Stereo Projection, you might require some new eq'ing. The older sound samples that I always considered "bad" sound worse when projected out on the soundstage. When you move sounds around on the Stereo Field, ugly sound effects and samples look (or sound, if you can't see sound) even worse. These sounds include: the "hitting zombies with weapons" sound effect, stomping zombies, the door closing sound effect sounds a little distorted with the sound mod, things like that. More will be added later on.

 

- Your reverb is... meh.

Your choice of reverb style is very interesting. Not the reverb size, because that varies greatly based on the size of your room, and in relationship to walls, as y'all promised. It doesn't vary based on the environment. It always sounds like you're in a large room with a domed roof made of metal. I've heard that before, and that's what it sounds like. It's got a very metallic decay and has the short echo delay that you would find in those types of rooms. There's no reverb outside that you might hear somewhere like the great canyon. The echo doesn't seem to have a greater delay from what I can hear. That kind of reverb might have a longer decay, but with no metallic coat to it. It's hard to explain what I'm trying to say here.. So when I went outside, it sounded a little like the map was under a large metal dome. Bear in mind that carpet, furnature covered in plush or things other than wood also help to mute reverb almost instantly. Grass and lots of nearby trees when outdoors have a similar effect. EDIT: Your reverb warmth and resonance might wanna change when you are in different environments. Get a woman you know to walk down a brick n' mortar school hallway with heels and you have a listen to the reverb. It's a totally different resonance than if you were in a metal dome.

 

Anyway, my time on FMOD has been limited to maybe a half-hour or less, so I will definitely test more later when I have time. Also, my ca-3908's aren't as accurate as my Bose QC25's. Take the above notes with a grain of salt. 

 

Non-FMOD-related Bugs:

 

- Zombies broke the doors down on the "Opening Day" challenge.

- Deleted Saves won't, you know, delete.. They keep reappearing in the "LOAD" menu.

- Dog God or... God Dog??? (See Above)

 

EDIT: I SPENT AN EXTRA HOUR TESTING FMOD ON THE 2.1 SPEAKER SYSTEM AGAIN. HERE ARE MY NEW OBSERVATIONS!!!

 

- The sound is very strong in some places and very weak in others. Boot up Last Stand and fight in that forest building. The swinging of your axe will be very loud, distorted and have a lot of reverb. In that building, most louder sounds, like opening and shutting doors sound distorted and watered down with the metallic reverb. 

 

- The sound of reloading is always either panned hard left or hard right, never changing direction or even coming toward the center.

 

- Shotgun blasts (haven't tested the pistol yet) sound odd because they are placed directly in the Stereo Middle of the soundstage. Not in the "inward middle" like the old ambient sounds, but in the 3D middle, if that makes sense.  It takes away the punch of the sound! This leads me to my next point...

 

- Some sounds utilize 3D sound with FMOD, while others stay the way they were!

As someone who "sees" sound more than he hears it, it looks very odd when the old waveforms are colored hard in the middle and other lighter sounds touch other parts of the canvas, if you know what I mean. Walk outside. Remember the sound that fades in when you do so? Its components and different sounds are not stereo separated into different parts. It's all in the center. What you have is, essentially, a 3D world of sounds and a few that have not left the middle. It feels odd having some things come out at you while others constantly play in the same spot. Distracting, almost. It makes those 2D sounds seem drab by comparison. There are other sounds like that too, and they take away from the ambience.

 

- Glass breaking, Door Banging, Zombie Sounds, and Glass Banging all sound very wonky when moving around the source!

• Glass Breaking - It sounds flat, there isn't much frequency coloring in the upper part of the spectrum anymore. The highs are flat. Also, it's practically inaudible if you are around a corner or on the other side of the building! I know this because a window broke and I didn't even hear it really. Apparently, I rounded the corner while the sample was still playing and FMOD released a *pop* and the sound effect played but it was halfway over.
• Zombie Sounds - Zombies make no sounds unless you are near them just like before. When a horde is chasing you and you just barely escape their claws, the sound goes away, so you wouldn't even know they're there. No footsteps, no frustrated "I almost had him!" groans... just silence after you leave their lunging range. I hear even less of the occasional moans from before!
• Door Banging - I find that it's still too loud up-close, and, just like breaking glass, can hardly be heard if you are around a corner or on an opposite side outside of the building. When you near the door, FMOD goes "pop" and plays the door banging sound.. Also, before Build 33, remember how you could sometimes hear door banging even if it's next door? I didn't hear any of that in my playthrough. You have to be pretty close to some doors under seige to be able to hear anything.
• Glass Banging - It's actually the best sounding of all of the door and window sound effects. You can hear the sound of zombies wiping their hands across the clean, squeaky glass with great clarity, but it's super quiet. Maybe boost the volume on that a little bit?

- There is a faint pop or click right before every sound, excluding zombies for the most part, (at least from what I've noticed) utilizing FMOD! If the sound is quiet, the pop or click might even drown it out!

 

- Your algorithmically generated music sounds dynamic, I guess. It's not samey enough that I can memorize it and hum along whenever it comes on, but it's not exactly different every time. From what I heard, it sounds like the same song being played in different ways each time. That said, that doesn't mean it isn't spectacular, because it is. If it is, in fact, algorithmically generated music, then it's pretty darn good because it has proper musical structure and everything, while adding a whole different atmosphere to the night. The greatness of the atmosphere of the mathematically-created tracks almost overshadow the atmosphere set by Zach Beever's tracks, no offense to him though!

 

So tell me, what do you think about FMOD? Have you found anything worth changing with it or is it smooth sailin' for you? Do you agree or disagree with what I've noticed? Let me know!

 

Slight Update! 11-26-15

 

Ok y'all so I'm still really busy. On top of that, I've sustained a mild injury and a winter cold at the same time! I have, however, gone back to do a little more testing and here are some of my observations from my very short test session today!

 

Praise first, then criticisms! Oh yeah, and I'm using my speakers again.

 

- Great Job, RJ!!! You didn't simply enhance the sound. You brought it to life. 

 

- RJ's Tweaks and Changes:

Glass shattering sounds clear, crisp, (no longer flat) and is well defined on the stereo field. The sound that plays when hitting zombies no longer sounds distorted since it seems like you've put it back in the center. Glass attacks are also much more clear now and no longer blend in with the ambience. I can hear more sounds that are farther away like in Build 32, but they remain beautifully represented on the Stereo Field of Build 33! Hmm.. what else did I notice... OH YEAH YOUR REVERB NO LONGER MAKES THE OUTDOORS SOUND LIKE A METAL DOME (and I saw your shout-out of that change in a recent Mondoid)!!! It sounds great now from what I've noticed. It's no longer as distracting. You know what, talking about this has me excited again so I might go back and do more tests today.

 

- Although I encountered an alarm before the most recent IWBUMS updates, they (still) sound weird now, but they are getting close-to realistic. When I was breaking windows as a test of the sound, an alarm went of and it scared the crap out of my brother who was in the same room on our Xbox One, and my mother downstairs asked what was going on. You obviously did something right there! xD However, the problems come in when moving away from the source. It's really loud up close (as it would be realistically) and actually seems to get even louder the further you go away as its coated in reverb (your new reverb sounds AMAZING outdoors, btw). When you begin to leave the range of hearing, however, it doesn't really fade out properly. It goes silent about 2 - 3 blocks outside of the maximum hearing range from what I've noticed. It doesn't fade away the farther you go, it simply cuts off with a very slight fade? There's not a proper "decay" as you move away. Just a very abrupt fade. 

[weeg]

I'm playing on a laptop - no headphones or any fancy speakers, regular laptop speakers. I set off an alarm at the West Point police station... it is loud. Running away from the source doesn't help and I can barely hear anything during the duration of the alarm.

It's really... really loud.

[BayCon]

I'm playing on a laptop - no headphones or any fancy speakers, regular laptop speakers. I set off an alarm at the West Point police station... it is loud. Running away from the source doesn't help and I can barely hear anything during the duration of the alarm.

It's really... really loud.

 

Loud should be expected. No change in direction? Not so much lol. It also shouldn't be so loud that it damages your hearing or your audio device. A gunshot in "Sir, You Are Being Hunted" single-handedly damaged the bass output on my $300 headphones..

[weeg]

 

I'm playing on a laptop - no headphones or any fancy speakers, regular laptop speakers. I set off an alarm at the West Point police station... it is loud. Running away from the source doesn't help and I can barely hear anything during the duration of the alarm.

It's really... really loud.

 

Loud should be expected. No change in direction? Not so much lol. It also shouldn't be so loud that it damages your hearing or your audio device. A gunshot in "Sir, You Are Being Hunted" single-handedly damaged the bass output on my $300 headphones..

 

 

Agreed, but what I'm getting at is that alarms shouldn't be as loud outside as they are inside.

[TheGentleman]

I will state that the screams, the dog barks, and the alarms are EXTREMELY loud and seem to have no direction, except the alarm. I admit when I first heard a scream it scared me shitless. 

 

I'd suggest working around with those and toning them down D:

 

Also has anyone heard or encountered the infamous helicopter? I've yet to find it myself after a few hours of playing.

[BayCon]

I haven't found the helicopter yet.. However I just spent an hour interacting with the world and made a lot more troubling observations. Stand by for edits.

[BayCon]

New updates are up! Note: I will be adding test observations and results for my headphones later, probably tomorrow. Stay tuned!

[BayCon]

I will state that the screams, the dog barks, and the alarms are EXTREMELY loud and seem to have no direction, except the alarm. I admit when I first heard a scream it scared me shitless. 

 

I'd suggest working around with those and toning them down D:

 

Also has anyone heard or encountered the infamous helicopter? I've yet to find it myself after a few hours of playing.

 

Oh also I've only heard the dog, nothing else from the meta-game.

[Jack Bower]

Your doing gods work here.

[BayCon]

Your doing gods work here.

 

Why thank you fine sir! 

 

I just looked up FMOD!! I didn't realize it was just a DAW for games. I work with those every day! I might download it and hopefully give some specific tips on mixing and mastering Project Zomboid's sounds.

 

I'm going to download, install, and work on FMOD and hopefully use my extensive music experience to suggest more advanced audio mixing and mastering tips, tricks, and techniques since I'll have my hands on the product they are using!

[CreepyD]

I will state that the screams, the dog barks, and the alarms are EXTREMELY loud and seem to have no direction, except the alarm. I admit when I first heard a scream it scared me shitless. 

 

I'd suggest working around with those and toning them down D:

 

Exactly the same.. The woman screaming scared the crap out of me.  It sounded like it was in the room and very loud! lol

But yeah, no sound direction on screams, dog barks, or alarms.

 

 

I keep getting my "stamping on zombie" sounds cutting in and out too, they sound odd.

[hominid]

Same here. Sound cuts out when stomping or using a blunt instrument on a zed.

[BayCon]

 

I will state that the screams, the dog barks, and the alarms are EXTREMELY loud and seem to have no direction, except the alarm. I admit when I first heard a scream it scared me shitless. 

 

I'd suggest working around with those and toning them down D:

 

Exactly the same.. The woman screaming scared the crap out of me.  It sounded like it was in the room and very loud! lol

But yeah, no sound direction on screams, dog barks, or alarms.

 

 

I keep getting my "stamping on zombie" sounds cutting in and out too, they sound odd.

 

Same here. Sound cuts out when stomping or using a blunt instrument on a zed.

 

These are either bugs, or stereo problems on your speakers or headphones. If the game is trying to project a sound to a piece of your soundstage which your speaker can't show representation of, it will move in and out as the sound moves in and out of your system's capable stereo range, or, as I said, it could just be a bug. I haven't tested for enough time on my headphones yet, I did it during class, but naturally the teacher was talking so I couldn't give 100% attention to the game. I'll test it later on today (probably after work) and update with more observations using clear headphones. 

[Spracky]

This is probably the dev's favorite thread

[Geras]

Dog barking, shouts and alarm are too loud. Just my 2 cents.

[BayCon]

This is probably the dev's favorite thread

 

What makes you think that? lol. They haven't offered any thoughts about my feedback, so either they don't consider it noteworthy feedback, they want to sit back and watch silently, or they haven't even seen this. Or maybe they just don't have anything to say or they don't wanna say it. 

 

Dog barking, shouts and alarm are too loud. Just my 2 cents.

 

Yeah it's a common opinion with this build. When I have some time, I'll add it to the topic description under "Dogs Are God".

[Svarog]

Some sound assets sound like... they sound like shit to be honest.

The new random gunshots sound like shit, completely unlike any single gun in-game.

Dogs are WAY too loud if you're outdoors, sounds like they're right next to you.

I can't hear chopping trees down, it's distaaaaaaaaaaaant

 

Trying to open locked doors, the sound comes from behind the door.

Zombies banging on windows sounds like... weird.

Stabbing a zombie with a knife sounds... like smashing a tomato. (It's a really hilarious sound effect)

HOUSE ALARMS ARE WAY TOO FKING LOUD!

(Not kidding about house alarms, normally there isn't a sound I can hear from my headphones if I put them away, the house alarm sound I can hear through the door of my room, from my headphones, I'll send TIS the bill for ear treatment)

[EnigmaGrey]

What makes you think that? lol. They haven't offered any thoughts about my feedback, so either they don't consider it noteworthy feedback, they want to sit back and watch silently, or they haven't even seen this. Or maybe they just don't have anything to say or they don't wanna say it.

No time, got to fix.

[RobertJohnson]

 

This is probably the dev's favorite thread

 

What makes you think that? lol. They haven't offered any thoughts about my feedback, so either they don't consider it noteworthy feedback, they want to sit back and watch silently, or they haven't even seen this. Or maybe they just don't have anything to say or they don't wanna say it. 

 

 

Haha don't worry, I read that post and it helps me a lot balancing sound

 

I shoulda do an update today, but Turbo has some stuff to do too, so update for tomorrow morning with more balanced sound!

 

Thanks a lot for keeping the OP up to date, really make me things easier for me! <3 Awesome community as usual

[fluffe9911]

It's not Dog God it's Doge God lol

[BayCon]

 

 

This is probably the dev's favorite thread

 

What makes you think that? lol. They haven't offered any thoughts about my feedback, so either they don't consider it noteworthy feedback, they want to sit back and watch silently, or they haven't even seen this. Or maybe they just don't have anything to say or they don't wanna say it. 

 

 

Haha don't worry, I read that post and it helps me a lot balancing sound

 

I shoulda do an update today, but Turbo has some stuff to do too, so update for tomorrow morning with more balanced sound!

 

Thanks a lot for keeping the OP up to date, really make me things easier for me! <3 Awesome community as usual

 

 

I have a lot of homework tonight and I'm still at work, so I'll hopefully be able to test more tomorrow with my headphones! I wasn't sure whether or not I was speaking to someone with headphones on (bad pun intended... get it? cuz you're working on FMOD? Nevermind that was so bad I bet you didn't even smile...). Now that I know it's been seen, I'll provide even more structured feedback if I have enough time. Peace, RJ, and great work so far!

[BayCon]

It's not Dog God it's Doge God lol

 

Oh no! I hope I have not offended the Doge God! He scared me enough in-game!

[fluffe9911]

He shall grant pity for now...

(lol)

[RobertJohnson]

Very bug. Such balancing. Much sound.

[Zorak]

Very bug. Such balancing. Much sound.

Thanks RJ!