Mondoid Repost & Discussion

[nasKo]

 

Welcome to Mondoid everyone. Let’s jump on in…

TALKIN’ BOUT OUR (CREATIVE) GENERATION

First off, a recap for those just tuning in. Creative Mode is an in-game building mode that will allow PZ players to collaboratively construct their own houses, towns and cities and upload them directly to Steam Workshop. It’s a way of circumventing our toolset, which although highly effective can prove tricky to get to grips with. With Creative Mode everyone can build their school or home town in a fun and engaging way, and then of course populate it with zombies for the whole world to experience. You can find some cool videos of it here and here.

Another prime motivation for its development, meanwhile, has been to aid the development of the suburbs area of the Louisville map. Louisville’s downtown area will be as lovingly handcrafted as Muldraugh and West Point, but to get that highly ambitious sense of scale we want – really making it feel like a true city – we needed a way for Creative to aid in the creation of its many suburban areas. [in-game these will be extremely highly populated zed-areas, and it’ll be a near impossible gauntlet run to travel from West Point spawn points to the Downtown area - and vice-versa.]

For players and developers alike then, to aid in the thankless task of creating thousands upon thousands of houses until brains ooze out of ears, Build 33’s Creative Mode has a House Generation Tool.

Right now the tool generates a completely random house within a specified area – it generates furniture [incomplete at time of video], doors, windows and roofs. At the moment it can only handle a single storey, but the ability to create multiple storeys will be added in future. Likewise, we’ll be adding in functions that’ll allow you to specify the facing of the house, auto-add gardens and yards, and even to draw out entire streets of houses with set properties that define their sizes, heights, loot richness and architectural style.

As Creative develops beyond Build 33, the plan is to be able to take town creation to higher levels for players less interested in creating buildings, letting them concentrate on road networks and zoning for individual areas. They’ll also be able to manually/automatically place unique buildings from Workshop subscriptions alongside these generated houses.

[Please note: this does not mean procedural generated maps during gameplay will ever be a part of Project Zomboid. What it does mean is that tools are being given to massively speed up players who enjoy creating maps, and these maps can then be shared and enjoyed throughout the community. All that said, some of the work has been done now so post 1.0 we will have some fun options to look at.]

BUILD 34 PREP

Clearly a main focus right now is finishing of 33 and merging our various dev streams into a glorious whole, but Build 34 preparation work is also happening – and in the case of our animator chap Martin it’s been happening for a while!

Also joining us to help out for a little while from the start of next month, meanwhile, is the return of Serge and Gennadii from General Arcade who previously did some ace and complex work prepping Zomboid for Steam integration. Their focus will primarily be on making the PZ MP experience a lot smoother and user-friendly, which will then in turn allow the core team to concentrate on the key remaining features we need in-game before we hit 1.0.

Writer Will, meanwhile, is writing up scripted Army chatter to complement what you hear over the official news channels. You’ll only ever be able to hear this should you loot a powerful enough radio in the early days of the timeline, however. He’s also finishing off a pool of potential survivor characters who are narratively linked to the local area alongside our known cast members Kate, Baldspot and Bobby the Raider. Clearly these characters will come in handy elsewhere too, but in terms of radio they’ll have broadcasts that’ll give information on abandoned safehouses, weapon stashes and, who knows, maybe even some sneaky booby-traps.

Oh, and Mash’s side of her Secret Mission is almost (finally) at its end. It’s something on the art side that’s far better seen than explained though, so we won’t be shouting about it until it’s integrated and ready to go.

BUILD 33 CONSOLIDATION

RJ’s sound adventures in FMOD continue, and he’s at the point at which all the primary and ambient sound effects are in and working – subject to MP testing. When that’s all done then he’ll be moving on to the integration of his build with that of Turbo, who right now is manfully fixing the bugs found by our internal testers on the radio build. So, hopefully, we’ll have an updated build for a stream or two after next week’s Mondoid goes live.

COOL COMMUNITY STUFF

A quick public service announcement from EnigmaGrey, the oligarch of the official SpiffoSpace servers. He’s now running ‘Proving Grounds’ which is a heavily modded server featuring the majority of mods that are available on the Steam Workshop. It’s a fun server, and helpful to modders who need to make sure their wares play nice together. For further details enquire within on the new SpiffoSpace boards on the forum.

Speaking of mods, we’ll be running our second Mod Spotlight blog this Thursday and it’s a really interesting conversation with ORMtnMan the creator of the Real Guns mod. It’s been great seeing how Steam Workshop has impacted on our most popular community creations – Real Guns mod for instance has gone from having average of 800 regular downloaders to 5700. Since our previous Mod Spotlight on Hydrocraft, meanwhile, downloads have leapt up to 13000 a week! This is all music to our ears!

Finally, check out this AMAZING fan art from Evilmonk77 – his twitter here, and his art pagehere. There’s also plenty more where it came from! Amazing skills! Click for biggerer!

 

Today’s featured image from the wondrous Teepee over on Steam, who got on fire and ran around a wooden kitchen. Sucks to be him. The Centralised Block of Italicised text would also like to direct your attention to the PZ Wiki should you feel like editing or amending something, and the PZ Mailing List that can send blogs like this and patch notes direct to your mailbox.

[f3rret]

Procedural house generation sounds GODDAMN AWESOME. 

[Suomiboi]

Procedural house generation sounds GODDAMN AWESOME. 

Ho. Lee. Crap.

[Jela331]

Is the Mod Spotlight going to become a weekly thing?

[Batsphinx]

Is the Mod Spotlight going to become a weekly thing?

 

It's whenever I have time, although there's only so many super-popular mods tbh. So it's whenever the time feels right!

[Livio Persemprio]

"Also joining us to help out for a little while from the start of next month, meanwhile, is the return of Serge and Gennadii from General Arcade who previously did some ace and complex work prepping Zomboid for Steam integration. Their focus will primarily be on making the PZ MP experience a lot smoother and user-friendly, which will then in turn allow the core team to concentrate on the key remaining features we need in-game before we hit 1.0."
i bet this means a step forward in direction of working cars:
the problem with vehicles is that the map in multi can't load as fast as the car goes, and those guys will be "making the PZ MP experience a lot smoother" of course i don't expect vehicles in build 34, but i'm sure this will help

also i can't wait for rj's sound overhaul

also THAT FANART IS AMAZING, and i found this one too on the guy's deviantart. you NEED to see it
http://meat-artworx.deviantart.com/art/Project-Zomboid-562095734

[BetaSpectre]

Procedural house generation sounds GODDAMN AWESOME. 

Didn't the devs say they weren't going to do this?

[Livio Persemprio]

 

Procedural house generation sounds GODDAMN AWESOME. 

Didn't the devs say they weren't going to do this?

 

that's right, it will be a tool for the creative mode, not a tool for the main map

"[Please note: this does not mean procedural generated maps during gameplay will ever be a part of Project Zomboid. What it does mean is that tools are being given to massively speed up players who enjoy creating maps, and these maps can then be shared and enjoyed throughout the community. All that said, some of the work has been done now so post 1.0 we will have some fun options to look at.]"

[lemmy101]

 

Procedural house generation sounds GODDAMN AWESOME. 

Didn't the devs say they weren't going to do this?

 

 

A bit of an expansion on the Mondoid:

 

So the big problems with completely procedurally generated maps from our perspective are:

 

1) The story of the game, and the location of the game, are of relevance to the lore. We're wanting to build up a lot of story around a specific location and random maps would interfere with this.

 

2) If the game had fully procedural maps, then we'd never have threads saying 'where do you like to hole up' or 'Considering a trip to West Point, any advice on route?'. The genesis of the game was 'What would to do if there was a zombie apocalypse' and part of that discussion is always using the people's immediate surrounds. The shop down the road. The mall. The nearest hardware store. Our plans involve a location we know. So having random maps would detract from this and would lose a lot of discussions about different locations.

 

3) Procedural mulch. In almost all procedurally generated content that's not natural (landscape, caves, etc) you get a certain amount of apathy and desensitization to the results of the world gen. What's up north? Does it matter? It's just more 'generated stuff' that's just the same as the generated stuff here. There aren't locations with unique looks, feels, because by the nature of it there is always a chance the town you start in has anything any other town could possibly have. Playing on multiple worlds over time will likely offer up everything proc gen has to offer, with no real requirement to find and discover stuff apart from perhaps a few rare buildings. Even these will all become known in time. The layouts and positions may be different but you start to feel you've seen it all before.

 

4) The complexity and development time of adding rules to automatically place tables in Spiffos, or create malls, or office blocks. There isn't a one size fits all solution to this so each will need to be coded independently and this is a lot of time to spend on such a feature while we have many other things that we've not yet delivered.

 

HOWEVER.

 

We need to speed up the map production as much as possible, that's clear to us now, and if the creator has the opportunity to put their own personal touches before it's used in game or uploaded to the workshop, then this gets rid of most of the issues with procedural generated content.

 

Houses, there's so many of them, and they are so non-descript compared to more unique locations, it seems an appropriate use for procedural generation. They all have kitchens, bedrooms, and so on.

 

And regarding the future, the workshop situation may be what makes procedural generation more doable without masses of generation code.

 

You only have to look at Cities: Skylines to see the sheer amount of user generated buildings in the workshop. There's so much that along with stock mulchy buildings, any city could have unique buildings, unique parks, areas, that only appear once and provide a city with some unique and personal feel. So it's possible that in the post-1.0 world, we may (if the game / workshop is popular enough) have enough resources at our disposal to add a randomly generated world option to the game, or perhaps to randomly generate the world outside the official map, and use user generated content to provide unique and personalized cities and towns that feel distinct to eachother. Or perhaps that'll never happen and we'll keep it to making towns / cities quickly creatable in Creative. It's too early to tell.

[Suomiboi]

I think it's an awesome addition. Working on Radcliff and doing hundreds of buildings by hand is tiresome and in the end you start repeating yourself. Making a tool to replace the bulk allows for creativity to be more concentrated on things that are and need to be truly unique. Plus there's nothing that stops you from tweaking those ready made buildings into something more special.

Awesome news!

[Zorak]

Great mondoid.

Dunno what is Mash dooing but i hope its some UI art enhance. Right now its so "raw". seeing a notepad background when you write a note, or some ID card for character panel would be great.

And im so happy that world will still be hand made. If preffer it over random one for exact the same reasons lemmy stated above.

[lucy the axe]

House generation is AWESOME.

[blackteapie]

So, there will be a new map in build 33?

Well...I hope you guys could add some unique items or activities to different towns or areas. For example, using the factory locate in a specific town or area to produce some unique items. By this way, it will give players much more motivation to explore the entire PZ world. Other wise, it is really no need for visiting other towns in single player mode. Because the loots and activities in there are exactly the same as the town I spawned in the game.

 

BTW, in my opinion these unique items or activities should not be critical to the basic survival in PZ.

[Zorak]

So, there will be a new map in build 33?

Well...I hope you guys could add some unique items or activities to different towns or areas. For example, using the factory locate in a specific town or area to produce some unique items. By this way, it will give players much more motivation to explore the entire PZ world. Other wise, it is really no need for visiting other towns in single player mode. Because the loots and activities in there are exactly the same as the town I spawned in the game.

BTW, in my opinion these unique items or activities should not be critical to the basic survival in PZ.

No map expansion in build 33 afaik.

Once we hit 1.0 and NPCs the single town wont last long for a few groups (just look at MP) so when that happen you will have to visit other towns for loot.

[blackteapie]

 

So, there will be a new map in build 33?

Well...I hope you guys could add some unique items or activities to different towns or areas. For example, using the factory locate in a specific town or area to produce some unique items. By this way, it will give players much more motivation to explore the entire PZ world. Other wise, it is really no need for visiting other towns in single player mode. Because the loots and activities in there are exactly the same as the town I spawned in the game.

BTW, in my opinion these unique items or activities should not be critical to the basic survival in PZ.

No map expansion in build 33 afaik.

Once we hit 1.0 and NPCs the single town wont last long for a few groups (just look at MP) so when that happen you will have to visit other towns for loot.

 

Well...I still hope they would produce more unique activities for different towns or areas, like StarEplex Cinema.

[Zorak]

So, there will be a new map in build 33?

Well...I hope you guys could add some unique items or activities to different towns or areas. For example, using the factory locate in a specific town or area to produce some unique items. By this way, it will give players much more motivation to explore the entire PZ world. Other wise, it is really no need for visiting other towns in single player mode. Because the loots and activities in there are exactly the same as the town I spawned in the game.

BTW, in my opinion these unique items or activities should not be critical to the basic survival in PZ.

No map expansion in build 33 afaik.

Once we hit 1.0 and NPCs the single town wont last long for a few groups (just look at MP) so when that happen you will have to visit other towns for loot.

Well...I still hope they would produce more unique activities for different towns or areas, like StarEplex Cinema.

dunno how you feel about it now but imo MD WP and VS are quite unique and different.

[blackteapie]

 

 

 

So, there will be a new map in build 33?

Well...I hope you guys could add some unique items or activities to different towns or areas. For example, using the factory locate in a specific town or area to produce some unique items. By this way, it will give players much more motivation to explore the entire PZ world. Other wise, it is really no need for visiting other towns in single player mode. Because the loots and activities in there are exactly the same as the town I spawned in the game.

BTW, in my opinion these unique items or activities should not be critical to the basic survival in PZ.

No map expansion in build 33 afaik.

Once we hit 1.0 and NPCs the single town wont last long for a few groups (just look at MP) so when that happen you will have to visit other towns for loot.

Well...I still hope they would produce more unique activities for different towns or areas, like StarEplex Cinema.

dunno how you feel about it now but imo MD WP and VS are quite unique and different.

 

Well, the terrain of these towns are quite different from each other, right now. But, the gaming experience is quite similar, from my view. I just hope those towns have more uniqueness on their functionality, like WP could be more industrialized (more manufactory machinery can be used by players) , while MD is...eh.... more agricultural (more likely to find livestock, for example).

[MonolithicBacon]

This is great news!

 

I had always intended for Phoenix to be a largely urban area with a centre of industrial and office-style buildings.

 

Even building three or four generic houses can take hours, and when time is limited, they take a backseat! 

 

I did want to ask, however, can you continue to edit these generated buildings (and buildings that are created in Creative Mode) in Tilezed later down the line?

[lemmy101]

This is great news!

 

I had always intended for Phoenix to be a largely urban area with a centre of industrial and office-style buildings.

 

Even building three or four generic houses can take hours, and when time is limited, they take a backseat! 

 

I did want to ask, however, can you continue to edit these generated buildings (and buildings that are created in Creative Mode) in Tilezed later down the line?

 

Not currently, no, however it may be possible in future who knows.

[MonolithicBacon]

 

This is great news!

 

I had always intended for Phoenix to be a largely urban area with a centre of industrial and office-style buildings.

 

Even building three or four generic houses can take hours, and when time is limited, they take a backseat! 

 

I did want to ask, however, can you continue to edit these generated buildings (and buildings that are created in Creative Mode) in Tilezed later down the line?

 

Not currently, no, however it may be possible in future who knows.

 

 

Allow me to push some buttons then!

 

If I created a building in Creative mode and uploaded that to Steam Workshop, would I then be able to load it on creative mode on another map (for example, Phoenix), and then share the entire map with the new buildings loaded in?

 

Apologies for the barrage!

[lemmy101]

 

 

This is great news!

 

I had always intended for Phoenix to be a largely urban area with a centre of industrial and office-style buildings.

 

Even building three or four generic houses can take hours, and when time is limited, they take a backseat! 

 

I did want to ask, however, can you continue to edit these generated buildings (and buildings that are created in Creative Mode) in Tilezed later down the line?

 

Not currently, no, however it may be possible in future who knows.

 

 

Allow me to push some buttons then!

 

If I created a building in Creative mode and uploaded that to Steam Workshop, would I then be able to load it on creative mode on another map (for example, Phoenix), and then share the entire map with the new buildings loaded in?

 

Apologies for the barrage!

 

 

Yep, once its in creative it'll all be shareable and reusable in any way. 

 

TMX/TBX -> Workshop -> Creative -> Creative -> Creative -> Workshop -> Creative -> Workshop 

 

etc

[LeoIvanov]

My wet dream would be having a random building generation in the mapping tools themselves, or a seamless way to transition back and forth between BuildingEd/WorldEd/Creative without having to go through save/load/close/open/reload hell.

 

If that works the way I expect it to work, I might even resurrect my old idea of recreating my home town <3 In any case, sounds like an exciting bunch of news.