Swords! Shields! Blacksmithing?

[Forgotten-Six]

Title says it all, I'd love to see a sword in game. I don't think they'd be common or anything, but something other than the axe/knife for my blade skill would be epic

 

I saw in another post something about welding, maybe even welding a shield, but here's the idea as is:

 

 

 

Swords! A Katana, Machete, Sabre, doesn't matter as long as it's sword like! High damage, low durability? Low damage, high durability? Maybe a way to sharpen the blade and add back 5-10 condition? Replica vs Functional, with the latter being rarer with a much higher durability? Perhaps a wooden sword that uses blunt skill, and does low damage? 

 

Shields! Garbage can lids, a cupboard door, or welded hunk of metal? Could be of varying materials/strengths. I suppose this would be harder to accomplish what with requiring a block animation with their addition. Even harder if a "shield bash" was put in so we could knock back a zombie or two with a quick bash and get back to hacking away with our swords!

 

As with the shield animation issue, two handed swords would also be really awesome but require more work to implement than just the single handed style weapons.

 

Blacksmithing! Not only would we be able to smith items like swords and shields, but perhaps we could make things like doorknobs, coat hangers, hinges and nails? Modern day blacksmiths do exist, and are mostly employed making the small items and trinkets I listed.

[Brandon354]

i couldn't see smithing being implemented as in the game you are suppose to be the average person and the average person can't make a fine blade (though i suppose you could read a book that enables it though this would be for gameplay more than realism). Shields sound like a good idea at first but if you think it through realize that while that shield is strapped to you if a zombie starts pulling on it you will be dragged down and it takes a good amount of stamina to carry a 5-10 lb object with one hand over extended periods of time. Having said all of this i would like to see swords as right now it feels like there is little merit in leveling blade over blunt.

[yourTeam]

Smithing?

Are you kidding me?

 

Finding swords in houses would be cool, I'm sure that will one day be added but smithing?!

 

There are no smithy's in Muldraugh. Not to mention smithing isn't exactly something you can learn via trial and error. It takes a long time to smith a sword, and a lot of really noisy clanking and hammering. Not exactly a smart idea in the zombie apocalypse. Or a practical idea for a realistic zombie game.

 

You'll have to cross your fingers and rely on modders for this. Or do it yourself.

[NightHawk]

Blacksmiths could be included within the world since most people should be able to make at least basic items with time, but the art of making swords is a specialty.  A blacksmith would probably just end up making a knife with a long blade if they tried to make a quality sword.

[Forgotten-Six]

Honestly blacksmithing isn't that far of a stretch. Who cares what is in Muldraugh right now, this is the zombie apocalypse - people are nomadic. Nobody's written books on blacksmithing? Trial and error isn't a way to learn something? What? I'm pretty sure as a 24 year old convenience store clerk, given time, maybe a book, I could probably make at least a nail, or a spoon(something that resembles one).

I assure you I completely agree that anyone who tried to smith something in any urban environment during the zombie apocalypse deserves to get eaten. But what about my forest stronghold, in the middle of nowhere? Surely it's safe to smith somewhere?

[vonVile]

It isn't that hard to make a sword. We're not folding steel 100 times to make a katana. YouTube has instructional videos on how to make homemade swords using a piece of metal and welding torch. The most time consuming part of it is the sharpening.

 

As for shields all we need is a metal trashcan lid.

[yourTeam]

What about all the tools you need to smoth with? How are you going to drag an anvil and a smithing furnace into the middle of a forst?

 

Just seems too unrealistic to be officially in-game for me.

Niche stuff like this is the territory of modders 

[feral_donkey]

IIRC a 28 days later character used a full body police riot shield to great effect.

[Kajin]

I think it should be possible to weld together some sort of weapon or something from an iron rod and length of metal as part of the hypothetical welding skill currently proposed. Make some kind of sword-like club for hacking and smashing. It would be elegant in its sheer brutality, but a true sword it would not be. Probably break easy too, depending on the welding skill and the quality of the materials used.

 

And a shield might be good for dealing with one or two zeds at a time. Present the shield out, zed grabs onto it, and you respond by stabbing or smashing it in the head with your weapon hand. Or just straight up bash the zed to the ground by ramming it full body with the shield presented so you can make a quick, running escape. 

[magnum2016]

We are not talking about perfectly made Katana's or Claymores we are talking quickly created swords that would not be very sharp compared to there professionally made counterparts but still be effective

[Kajin]

We're all talking about that. Using a welding tool would be the only realistic way to make our own weapons in the game, and they wouldn't be nearly ass effective as a weapon smithed by a professional using a hammer or an anvil. But they'd still be pretty brutal weapons.

[vonVile]

Here's a video on how to make a knife using basic tools. No anvil needed.

 

 

Instead of using the power saws we'll use the welding torch.

 

As for steel materials for making swords we can get them from gardening sheers, which are already short swords, and lawnmower blades.

[feral_donkey]

A Machete,  or home-made machete,    would be good.    Nearly as good as an axe but only requiring one hand.

 

A machete + trash can lid sounds good.     WIth cardboard + duct tape armor of course.

[Brandon354]

Shields would be horrible I don't think you realize how hard it is to carry a 5-10 lb object in one hand for hours on end while constantly defending and having it pulled on and beat against, not to mention you are constantly swinging your weapon with the other hand and running.

[TheCenturion]

First thing I thought after reading first post is that somebody's been playing Skyrim a little too much.

 

Blacksmithing as you say, I doubt could ever really occur realistically. In the zombie apocalypse, is somebody going to actually spend hours upon hours putting together a crude blade that at best might be good for a single swing, before it's stuck in a zed, when there's plenty of other prebuilt weapons laying about? Axe over homemade blade any day. 

 

Shields on the other hand, I imagine have potential. Not like those ones from medieval ages, just planks of wood nailed to a base. I could make something that makeshift, and I know crap all about woodworking. Then again, you're fighting zeds, not people, so they're going to be inclined to grab for the shield, not stay back from it. 

 

 

Shields would be horrible I don't think you realize how hard it is to carry a 5-10 lb object in one hand for hours on end while constantly defending and having it pulled on and beat against, not to mention you are constantly swinging your weapon with the other hand and running.

 

Yup. I've held a replica longsword before, not sure exactly what type, they're heavy things. I couldn't imagine actually continually swinging one with enough force to actually dismember. Remember stabbing a zombie isn't going to do anything.

 

EDIT: Whoops, you said shield, not sword. Uh... would work both ways I guess. 

[Forgotten-Six]

A sharp blade swung properly will cut through bone and flesh easily, especially unarmored flesh.  

 

In the zombie apocalypse I think someone is going to spend the time to learn smithing, because after society collapses, we're essentially getting kicked back to pre-industrial iron age.

What is there to do during the zombie apocalypse other than surviving? Not a heck of a lot. No more time for reddit, or video games. No more 18 holes to golf, movies aren't being made and new music isn't getting released around the world. So by trial and error, time and patience, I'm willing to bet there'd be more blacksmiths per capita in the world post apocalypse than there are right now.

 

Shields... Eh, I'm inclined to agree that it's an archaic form of combat when it comes to fighting the zombie war, so much grabbing and clawing ... Probably wouldn't end well. The only way I can think of a shield being useful is if it was studded with spikes or something, and even then you might as well just use your other hand for a weapon.

 

So perhaps the blacksmith needs tools, and we don't exactly have a forge handy. Well until one can be built by hand, surely there is a machine shop in town somewhere? Heck my local highschool has a metalworking garage, and I know I could make a sturdy blade in there in a short amount of time. Of course a machine shop would have the problem of being run on electricity, but at least it'd be there and "easily" accessible(compared to building a forge).

 

Edit: Building the forge is simple, a makeshift one could be done as easily as a hole in the ground with charcoal from a corner store and an air pump. Build something out of cinder blocks if you want to get fancy. The anvil? Little tougher, you're just looking for a hard hunk of steel to hammer hot metal on, so anything that fits that description would do. A spare chunk of rail road track could fit our needs in a pinch.

[TheCenturion]

A sharp blade swung properly will cut through bone and flesh easily, especially unarmored flesh.  

 

In the zombie apocalypse I think someone is going to spend the time to learn smithing, because after society collapses, we're essentially getting kicked back to pre-industrial iron age.

What is there to do during the zombie apocalypse other than surviving? Not a heck of a lot. No more time for reddit, or video games. No more 18 holes to golf, movies aren't being made and new music isn't getting released around the world. So by trial and error, time and patience, I'm willing to bet there'd be more blacksmiths per capita in the world post apocalypse than there are right now.

 

Shields... Eh, I'm inclined to agree that it's an archaic form of combat when it comes to fighting the zombie war, so much grabbing and clawing ... Probably wouldn't end well. The only way I can think of a shield being useful is if it was studded with spikes or something, and even then you might as well just use your other hand for a weapon.

 

So perhaps the blacksmith needs tools, and we don't exactly have a forge handy. Well until one can be built by hand, surely there is a machine shop in town somewhere? Heck my local highschool has a metalworking garage, and I know I could make a sturdy blade in there in a short amount of time. Of course a machine shop would have the problem of being run on electricity, but at least it'd be there and "easily" accessible(compared to building a forge).

 

Edit: Building the forge is simple, a makeshift one could be done as easily as a hole in the ground with charcoal from a corner store and an air pump. Build something out of cinder blocks if you want to get fancy. The anvil? Little tougher, you're just looking for a hard hunk of steel to hammer hot metal on, so anything that fits that description would do. A spare chunk of rail road track could fit our needs in a pinch.

 

Maybe after a long period of time, something might happen like that. But the way I see it, Project Zomboid 'begins' relatively early into the apocalypse. Maybe it could be added in as a late game feature, using a skills system such as metalworking or something. After a good chunk of play, said skill might get quite high and allow the player to forge basic tools/weapons. 

[Kajin]

Hmm... It might be plausible to find some simple metalworking tools at one of the farms for use in making horse shoes, so if a survivor managed to get a hold of some of that equipment and had some scraps of metal he could use it to make something crude and simple to use as a weapon.

[TheBrainfart]

I'm going to address a few of the issues people have brought up, bear with me for a little.

 

First things first, about the "blacksmithing isn't a trial and error process", with the addition of NPCs (In a future update) perhaps one of them could be a smith and train you. If not, books. Furthermore, everything can be a trial and error process, it just matters how much time you want to sink into it. I've seen a smith work before, sure alot of things are complicated, but nails? It takes about one minute to make a nail, and its one of the easiest things to smith. Also, this would address one of the issues i had before. There is a limited supply of nails on the map, albeit there's alot of nails. I tend to like to do a lot of construction, making a LOT of safe houses around the town, and i ran out of nails. And for if/when they add multiplayer, all of the houses etc. will get looted rather quickly, so you need to have some way to create everything you need (Farming for food, construction for shelter), and on that note, what happens when all the weapons are being used or broken? How do you get (or make) more *wink* *wink*. Lastly, you could have a blacksmith profession, which the benefits of would be obvious.

 

Next, Muldraugh is not going to be the only town, and even if it was you CAN make your own blacksmith's tools. A lot of things don't even take an anvil, and for many of the things that do you can just use a hard, flat surface. Perhaps a granite counter? Obviously it would break eventually but not before you got a few tools out of it.

 

Now to address the shields. First of all, zombies wouldn't pull on your shield, they aren't intelligent enough. Zombies just keep walking towards you and put all their weight on you, in which case the shield would be extremely useful for bashing them back. Also it could block a zombies attack as long as hes not right on top of you. Maybe you would even be able to put it on your back and it has a chance to block attacks from behind?

 

Not sure if i missed anything, if there's an unresolved issue i didn't touch on feel free to reply, not sure if ill be looking back at this for a while though so sorry if i don't reply.

 

In addressing the issue of it being loud, that's fair game. Its the same as with carpentry (which is also very loud). Sure its essential to survival, but there needs to be risks as well as rewards.

Edited August 2, 2013 by TheBrainfart

[Brandon354]

I'm going to address a few of the issues people have brought up, bear with me for a little.

 

First things first, about the "blacksmithing isn't a trial and error process", with the addition of NPCs (In a future update) perhaps one of them could be a smith and train you. If not, books. Furthermore, everything can be a trial and error process, it just matters how much time you want to sink into it. I've seen a smith work before, sure alot of things are complicated, but nails? It takes about one minute to make a nail, and its one of the easiest things to smith. Also, this would address one of the issues i had before. There is a limited supply of nails on the map, albeit there's alot of nails. I tend to like to do a lot of construction, making a LOT of safe houses around the town, and i ran out of nails. And for if/when they add multiplayer, all of the houses etc. will get looted rather quickly, so you need to have some way to create everything you need (Farming for food, construction for shelter), and on that note, what happens when all the weapons are being used or broken? How do you get (or make) more *wink* *wink*. Lastly, you could have a blacksmith profession, which the benefits of would be obvious.

 

Next, Muldraugh is not going to be the only town, and even if it was you CAN make your own blacksmith's tools. A lot of things don't even take an anvil, and for many of the things that do you can just use a hard, flat surface. Perhaps a granite counter? Obviously it would break eventually but not before you got a few tools out of it.

 

Now to address the shields. First of all, zombies wouldn't pull on your shield, they aren't intelligent enough. Zombies just keep walking towards you and put all their weight on you, in which case the shield would be extremely useful for bashing them back. Also it could block a zombies attack as long as hes not right on top of you. Maybe you would even be able to put it on your back and it has a chance to block attacks from behind?

 

Not sure if i missed anything, if there's an unresolved issue i didn't touch on feel free to reply, not sure if ill be looking back at this for a while though so sorry if i don't reply.

 

In addressing the issue of it being loud, that's fair game. Its the same as with carpentry (which is also very loud). Sure its essential to survival, but there needs to be risks as well as rewards.

they would pull on your shield but not out of intelligence, do zombies grab and pull on you before tearing into you or do they push you aside/fall on you? They pull. so why would they only push/lean against a shield, if you want to go in attempting to slay hordes skyrim style be my guest but that horde will slay you as it pulls on the shield and in the process your arm it is attached to making it hard for you to escape and in that position it would be hard to swing a lethal blow. meaning? I wouldn't be suprised if 1 zombie killed you, even if they didn't grab you swinging a lethal blow to a zombie with one hand while the other weighs you down would be significantly harder than using both hands (as you wouldn't have the force needed to pierce/bash into the brain) and you can throw your body into it if you are using both hands or have a free hand as oppose to using one hand with a shield throwing you of balance against a horde that is trying to throw you off balance or pull on you in order to munch on you.

 

Edit: sorry if I came off as an *insert profane word here* I just posted what I thought in the moment.

[TheBrainfart]

they would pull on your shield but not out of intelligence, do zombies grab and pull on you before tearing into you or do they push you aside/fall on you? They pull. so why would they only push/lean against a shield, if you want to go in attempting to slay hordes skyrim style be my guest but that horde will slay you as it pulls on the shield and in the process your arm it is attached to making it hard for you to escape and in that position it would be hard to swing a lethal blow. meaning? I wouldn't be suprised if 1 zombie killed you, even if they didn't grab you swinging a lethal blow to a zombie with one hand while the other weighs you down would be significantly harder than using both hands (as you wouldn't have the force needed to pierce/bash into the brain) and you can throw your body into it if you are using both hands or have a free hand as oppose to using one hand with a shield throwing you of balance against a horde that is trying to throw you off balance or pull on you in order to munch on you.

 

Edit: sorry if I came off as an *insert profane word here* I just posted what I thought in the moment.

It would take intelligence for a zombie to know to pull at your shield, and therefore throwing you off balance. My question is, if a zombie is smart enough to try to pull at your shield, why don't they just pull your bat, axe, etc. out of your hand? The way zombies attack you in most games and movies is that they put all their way on you, get a hold of you, then bite you. They don't pull at you to get you off balance. If you disagree go start up any zombie movie and check.

[Brandon354]

It would take intelligence for a zombie to know to pull at your shield, and therefore throwing you off balance. My question is, if a zombie is smart enough to try to pull at your shield, why don't they just pull your bat, axe, etc. out of your hand? The way zombies attack you in most games and movies is that they put all their way on you, get a hold of you, then bite you. They don't pull at you to get you off balance. If you disagree go start up any zombie movie and check.

Like i said before this isn't out of intelligence it just happens due to them doing this, and telling me to watch a zombie movie... That is a horrible way to back yourself up.

[Forgotten-Six]

Like i said before this isn't out of intelligence it just happens due to them doing this, and telling me to watch a zombie movie... That is a horrible way to back yourself up.

 

Actually thats the perfect way to back himself up, the entire zombie subculture is based off the zombies that first showed up in movies, like george romero's... Which this game has based it's zombies off of a george romero/max brooks combo of zombies.

 

So I guess the shield would actually have some merit in the zombie apocalypse, aside from the occasional grab at it.

[Brandon354]

Actually thats the perfect way to back himself up, the entire zombie subculture is based off the zombies that first showed up in movies, like george romero's... Which this game has based it's zombies off of a george romero/max brooks combo of zombies.

 

So I guess the shield would actually have some merit in the zombie apocalypse, aside from the occasional grab at it.

not true there are many different forms of zombie lore and each movie depicts them differently even if they attempt to base it off the same one. Shields would get you killed and tire you out. if you are blocking a zombie who is pulling/leaning on you then you aren't in a position to deal a fatal blow

[Kajin]

If you're wielding a small thin weapon like a knife or an ice pick, all it would take is a quick jab to their temple or, better yet, their neck to sever the spine and get them to drop like a sack of rotten potatoes. If a zed is busy fooling with grabbing your shield, it would put you at the perfect range to deliver a debilitating blow to a zombie.