Jump to content

Swords! Shields! Blacksmithing?


Forgotten-Six

Recommended Posts

A lot of people don't realize that the game's based on realism, hence a lot of stuff has to be discussed to determine if it's realistically viable. So this, for example, is important. However, this thread has been going for ages, and it really should be locked...

 

... yet, I'm going to through more kindling on because fire baby. Remember guys; there's going to be humans in the game soon. They, realistically anyway, will react different to zombies because they can feel pain, be knocked back, stunned etc. A lot of weapons not viable against zombies will most certainly be viable against humans, especially once the ammo starts getting rare...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The arguement that somehow having a shield is a bigger disadvantage than being without one when zombies are attacking you is just crazy in my opinion. In close quarters humanity has relied on shields for thousands of years. Entire military strategies and fighting styles have developed around them. Saying "Zombies pinning you to the ground by laying on your shield" is a disadvantage is preposterous, how would you even survive that without a shield?

 

As for swords, they should be craftable out of sheet metal and the likes, even if not edged weapons, surely a mace can be made with ease. And the whole average joe arguement falls flat when everyone can build multi-storey buildings from just wood. It is still a game meant to be fun, and having the ability to improve your close combat capabilities over time; expending resources doing so, is also fun.

 

It's the same thing with sawing planks, they made it easier than irl because it's meant to be fun. So my opinion is that expanded weapon crafting is a necessity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for swords, they should be craftable out of sheet metal and the likes, even if not edged weapons, surely a mace can be made with ease. And the whole average joe arguement falls flat when everyone can build multi-storey buildings from just wood. It is still a game meant to be fun, and having the ability to improve your close combat capabilities over time; expending resources doing so, is also fun.

 

It's the same thing with sawing planks, they made it easier than irl because it's meant to be fun. So my opinion is that expanded weapon crafting is a necessity.

 

You have a good point about the planks and building a house. Those are just as unlikely as making a sword. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The arguement that somehow having a shield is a bigger disadvantage than being without one when zombies are attacking you is just crazy in my opinion. In close quarters humanity has relied on shields for thousands of years. Entire military strategies and fighting styles have developed around them. Saying "Zombies pinning you to the ground by laying on your shield" is a disadvantage is preposterous, how would you even survive that without a shield?

 

As for swords, they should be craftable out of sheet metal and the likes, even if not edged weapons, surely a mace can be made with ease. And the whole average joe arguement falls flat when everyone can build multi-storey buildings from just wood. It is still a game meant to be fun, and having the ability to improve your close combat capabilities over time; expending resources doing so, is also fun.

 

It's the same thing with sawing planks, they made it easier than irl because it's meant to be fun. So my opinion is that expanded weapon crafting is a necessity.

 

Yes, but every single (including firearms) weapon humanity has every created is for fighting another living, breathing creature. Usually ourselves. Zombies are not 'alive', and human rules don't apply to them. Films aside, weapons are designed to intimidate, deter and incapacitate; not necessarily kill outright. Guess how many of them work against a zombie. 

 

If you have a shield, you're just giving the zeds a bigger target to grab. If it's bigger, you're going to have less mobility and just give a bigger target for zeds to grab. The disadvantages outweigh the advantages. 

 

You make a good point about the construction of walls though. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the shields only work against other weapons. they don't give an advantage against zombies. The shield allows the zombie to get to close, he could still scratch you. a shield is heavy, walking around with one would tire you. and when the zombie is already close enough to push your shield he's already to close for you to be able to use a weapon in an effective way

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still say a shield would be an advantageous item. Get used to carrying one and it pretty much turns you into a living battering ram that lets you smash right into a zed to knock it down while you run or move to finish it off while it's trying to get back up, or let a lone zed or two reach for the shield to grab onto it, making their skulls an easy target for your knife while they fumble uselessly against something they can't bite. And I'll never buy the argument that letting them grab the shield lets them drag you down, since you can easily just let go of the shield if it becomes too much of a burden to hold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

I would just like to see a wider variety of weapons which can be scavenged. For example, multiple types of axes, tier one would be the hatchet with the lowest ratings for damage and durability. From there a regular splitting axe and finally the rare and coveted fireman's axe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see much reason to add too many more weapons outside of modding. I mean; we can already mod things, and it doesn't really add anything with a role not already covered, so it becomes clutter.  Other than machete. i MEAN, that just needs to be in. And chainsaw, because, come on.

 

I'm more interested in clothing. Leather jacket\boots should prevent likelyhood of bites and scratches to covered areas, but should also have condition that rapidly diminishes-- i'm thinking a jacket can only protect from a scratch or two, and maybe one bite to the shoes would destroy them. It just seems weird when I'm wearing shoes and I get bitten on the foot. Its fine with regular shoes, zombies can bite through that, but work shoes should stand up (steel toed shoe!) and combat boots could protect up the ankles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see much reason to add too many more weapons outside of modding. I mean; we can already mod things, and it doesn't really add anything with a role not already covered, so it becomes clutter.  Other than machete. i MEAN, that just needs to be in. And chainsaw, because, come on.

 

I'm more interested in clothing. Leather jacket\boots should prevent likelyhood of bites and scratches to covered areas, but should also have condition that rapidly diminishes-- i'm thinking a jacket can only protect from a scratch or two, and maybe one bite to the shoes would destroy them. It just seems weird when I'm wearing shoes and I get bitten on the foot. Its fine with regular shoes, zombies can bite through that, but work shoes should stand up (steel toed shoe!) and combat boots could protect up the ankles.

 

Ayiyi, this thread has been revived one too many times. If you have another idea you'd like to suggest (and make sure it hasn't already been suggested before via search), feel welcome to post another thread. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Spears and stabbing weapons may not be the best idea, think of it like this: You have to stab through the zombies skull or sever the the neck to kill it. In order to hit a target like that with a long spear would require tons of practice and precision, not to mention a lot of force. Those sorts of weapons were designed for humans who cringe from pain and would back off after a single attack. 

Some of those weapons were designed to put 6 inches of steal through your skull. (Cappoferro). Nakedness optional.

 

video of practice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPc41wIZPLg

 

You should watch Guy (person in black) sparing, dispassionate and precise even when using sharps

 

Though for more understandable instruction (if you're going to read it - cappoferro is badly organized), look at fiore dei liberi

 

A bunch of people have intonate that swords are clumsy and tiring to use, ineffective and will get you killed.  They are if you're doing it wrong.  but then so i swimming - if you don't know how.

 

If you look at historical battles with 'primitive' weapons - they went on for hours - hours of constant parry, stabbing slashing, bashing, breaking of arms, stomping.  The fighting systems that came into existence around these are predicated on that you will be doing it for a Long Time and if you get too tiered - you Die.  probably painfully.  If you can do any of these fighting styles - you have a Huge advantage when it comes to killing things with melee weapons.  Especially if you use the melee weapons of choice -> Pollaxe, Billhook, glaive &c.  swords are a sidearm. and hard to make.  Pollaxe -> 3 spikes and a hammer head on a length  of wood.

 

The problem is that most of this knowledge is that it is only really contained in books.  And if you're trying to learn from a book, and you botch it.  you Die.  means those first few steps are a bit more important than, say, learning how to build box from a book.

 

Any way. I cant see how using a machete (designed for trees) would be better than using a back-sword (designed for bodies - I believe some of the US armed forces still use this sword as a dress sword) could ever be considered a better tool for dismembering bodies.  Seriously, if I want to kill lots of people with melee weapons, I'd go to the guys who did it for a living, and do what I could to use their skills and equipment.

 

Argument: they were made for hurting people a bit and making them run away.  Not really, they were made for spilling their guts all over the floor. breaking there arms in 3 places then stomping on their skull.  So just adapt a bit. Skip the guts part and go straight for the skull.

 

As for shields, I can understand the arguments about them being tiring.  But how is it worse to have a zombie clawing or pulling on your shield when the alternate is to have a zombie clawing and pulling on your arm/face/chest/clothes?  (Also, you could use a buckler... Metal dish with  a handle you old.  good for punching, or interposing between your face and rotting teeth.)

 

Full disclosure - I do Cappoferro and Fiore - so I am moderately partial to them as a means of bodily harm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

I would love to see blacksmithing in the game, that would make the game more interesting. Yeah there are axes, kitchen knives, golf clubs, etc in the game, but I would love to have the ability to make swords. Would be awesome.

 

With blacksmithing you could make different types of swords, axes, scythes, hammers, etc. 1-handed, 2-handed, dull, sharp, razor sharp, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well if you guys chose to necro bump...might as well bring the flame war back out of the ashes :P

If I had to choose what was easier between 

A: Building a house

B: Welding a sword

with what I have available to me right now I would still have to pick A.  There is really no feasible way to heat the metal to a temperature hot enough with conventional household items.  As preposterous as building a 2 story house is I could still accomplish that easier than melting metal with what I have.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are a lot of skills get suggested in this forum because it is theoretically possible that a person could learn it. This is one, lockpicking is another etc.

 

Yeah, it's possible a tiny proportion of people might know or learn these skills, but 99.9% of people would never achieve it.

 

However, if you introduce skills like these into a game, every player will end up going for them. You'll end up with multiplayer servers populated by human survivors that are all expert catburglars that smith broadswords in their spare time, which is hardly realistic and doesn't really fit with the post-zombie apocalypse lore that we all know and love.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What if there was a museum filled with some swords and weapons but they could only be found there and wouldn't respawn. That way if you get a katana it would have good range, fast swing, and deal good damage but the durability would go down super fast so it would be a few time use unless repaired constantly. Shield could be a secondary and could be used to block zombies if they get to close but would only work a good 50% of the time and could break within the first good 100 uses. The machetes should just be added in houses but they could dull over time resulting in more hits to kill and more wasted usage. The solution would be to get a stone from foraging or fine a blade sharpener in houses. You can make it sharper but it acts like a pencil sharpener. sharpen too long it wastes the sword. The more you sharpen the more the durability goes down but you can get it to a point where its very sharp and not a complicate waste. Just an idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What if there was a museum filled with some swords and weapons but they could only be found there and wouldn't respawn. That way if you get a katana it would have good range, fast swing, and deal good damage but the durability would go down super fast so it would be a few time use unless repaired constantly. Shield could be a secondary and could be used to block zombies if they get to close but would only work a good 50% of the time and could break within the first good 100 uses. The machetes should just be added in houses but they could dull over time resulting in more hits to kill and more wasted usage. The solution would be to get a stone from foraging or fine a blade sharpener in houses. You can make it sharper but it acts like a pencil sharpener. sharpen too long it wastes the sword. The more you sharpen the more the durability goes down but you can get it to a point where its very sharp and not a complicate waste. Just an idea.

This debate is a two sided horse that's been flogged to death a million times on both ends.  It is a creative idea but you missed the flame war over this :P Sorry 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...