Swords! Shields! Blacksmithing?

[TheBrainfart]

not true there are many different forms of zombie lore and each movie depicts them differently even if they attempt to base it off the same one. Shields would get you killed and tire you out. if you are blocking a zombie who is pulling/leaning on you then you aren't in a position to deal a fatal blow

As you said there are different forms of zombie lore, and remember that little box that lets you edit zombie lore in sandbox mode? There could be an option in there, as for default it would be that they don't pull at your shield except on occasion, so maybe a percent chance that they will grab you/your shield instead of just trying to get their teeth into you.

[Brandon354]

As you said there are different forms of zombie lore, and remember that little box that lets you edit zombie lore in sandbox mode? There could be an option in there, as for default it would be that they don't pull at your shield except on occasion, so maybe a percent chance that they will grab you/your shield instead of just trying to get their teeth into you.

the default would be them grabbing it constantly, if you were to put your hand out would a zombie only occasionally grab it? no it would whenever it gets the chance and a zombie can't tell that the shield isn't a part of you. They don't grab your weapon because it moves too frequently and too fast (well, they might try) as oppose to a shield that moves very little and so would require little effort.

[Sooner535]

If I may, you guys say who would be able to smith nails and such, but who the freak would be able to build walls and doors, floors and crates etc. just assume your guy is bob the builder lol

[Shivster]

but nails? It takes about one minute to make a nail, and its one of the easiest things to smith. Also, this would address one of the issues i had before. There is a limited supply of nails on the map, albeit there's alot of nails. I tend to like to do a lot of construction, making a LOT of safe houses around the town, and i ran out of nails

 

I have a mod to fix the nail issue

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[Kajin]

Okay, is there anyone at all opposed to basic metalcrafting? Even if it's just crude tools and simple weapons and slapdash metal barricades?

[TheCenturion]

 

they would pull on your shield but not out of intelligence, do zombies grab and pull on you before tearing into you or do they push you aside/fall on you? They pull. so why would they only push/lean against a shield, if you want to go in attempting to slay hordes skyrim style be my guest but that horde will slay you as it pulls on the shield and in the process your arm it is attached to making it hard for you to escape and in that position it would be hard to swing a lethal blow. meaning? I wouldn't be suprised if 1 zombie killed you, even if they didn't grab you swinging a lethal blow to a zombie with one hand while the other weighs you down would be significantly harder than using both hands (as you wouldn't have the force needed to pierce/bash into the brain) and you can throw your body into it if you are using both hands or have a free hand as oppose to using one hand with a shield throwing you of balance against a horde that is trying to throw you off balance or pull on you in order to munch on you.

 

Edit: sorry if I came off as an *insert profane word here* I just posted what I thought in the moment.

It would take intelligence for a zombie to know to pull at your shield, and therefore throwing you off balance. My question is, if a zombie is smart enough to try to pull at your shield, why don't they just pull your bat, axe, etc. out of your hand? The way zombies attack you in most games and movies is that they put all their way on you, get a hold of you, then bite you. They don't pull at you to get you off balance. If you disagree go start up any zombie movie and check.

 

 

Actually, it's the lack of intelligence that causes them to grab at the shield. As far as they're concerned, the shield is part of you. They will claw and jump upon the shied, which will throw you off balance anyway. Having a zombie attatch itself you will make stabbing it rather difficult/stressful.

[Kajin]

I keep saying it. A shield in this situation would be used to give you more tactical options. You're not gonna be using it defensively. You'll be using it offensively. If you need to plow through a small group of them to get out of a corner and to safety, it cushions the impact of running through them while at the same time giving you a bit of extra mass to get the job done. And if they grab it? LET THEM. If you present the shield out to them to grab, they're not grabbing you and it gives you extra leverage against them if you're using small penetrating weapons like a knife or an ice pick.

 

And the design of the shield can easily incorporate some kind of emergency safety release, so you can ditch the shield and run for it if a zed is holding onto it but the situation shifts out of favor and you gotta run. It'd be like a tearaway cape. If it snags on something, it's released and you can keep on going.

 

But this is something that's impossible to test in real life to know if it's actually a viable way of doing things, so the devs will be the ones to decide with their own judgement if shields get the ax or not. I say they would be if you tried to rethink how they'd be used in the altered situation, but whatever.

[Shivster]

1v1 or even 2v1 a zombie is no issue with a shield as you will see in this video

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oHg5SJYRHA0

 

 

 

 

[SenorMonstro]

1v1 or even 2v1 a zombie is no issue with a shield as you will see in this video

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Easypeasy~  Sounds logic to me!!

[ianopolos]

please no shields this is not 15 century and its not medieval game.

 

Well maybe for blacksmithing to craft baseball bats with nails but thats it i wouldnt want developers waste time

[Kajin]

It's easy enough to make a sturdy shield out of a hard plastic garbage can lid. I used to do it all the time as a kid before my mom decided dagorhir was too nerdy and threw all of my stuff out. Man, that thing was hella durable.

[Shivster]

please no shields this is not 15 century and its not medieval game.

 

Well maybe for blacksmithing to craft baseball bats with nails but thats it i wouldnt want developers waste time

 

But that dose not change the fact that it would be a viable defense. anything that would give you an edge in a fight is never a bad idea. And its just a option not a requirement. I would rather use a 2 handed weapon something with reach and weight. But i will not say this is a bad idea. And as for the its not the 15th century True but some tired and true items like the Axe, knife(dagger), Club(baseball bat), Tents, Campfires, Nails, Etc...... Where all used back then.

[SenorMonstro]

I see blacksmithing very viable (even with an a anvil) in zombie times. It could really work on pz, but not in the middle of the city.. in the woods, mountains or something like that, I can perfectly imagine a group of survivors crafting things with scrap metal and going frecuently to the city to search materials, and the rest of the classic things..

If this is implement it have to be later : P

 

But not for making swords and shields, definitely don't fit in any aspect with pz

[DirectorPr]

If horses are introduced to the game it'd be cool to make horse shoes. I'm certain the farm out of Muldraugh would have an anvil for basic smithing.

[TheConstructionWorker]

Personally I like the idea of a shield it could altogether block all frontal attacks and I'm talking in game not real life situations which you guys are tending to verge off towards keep it simple the devs and modders only can do so much, the shield could be made from a variety of materials like planks, garbage bin lid as said above, scrap metal with varying stats of durability and chances of blocking bites or scratch.

 

As for all the blacksmith things you have to be realistic to burn metals you need extreme temperatures which needs high amounts of power or carefully maintained materials for the fire, it would create lots of light and makes visible smoke which could attract Z's or potential NPC's which could be devastating since in assuming this would be a late game thing like farming, meaning it could attract good/helpful NPC's or murderous raiders, make any type of sword/shield takes hours even for a shabby metal stick the banging of metal would make a lot of noise as well.

 

Although maybe house could have a mantle piece with a katana or short sword which would be fun just to wield. Shields a big yes but Blacksmith maybe not could be fun but unrealistic

[Salvag3]

Shields come in all manner of styles and Shapes, they have different functions, From massive 2 man siege shields that could be carried by two people and snapped together and set down then braced, Archers had Troops with them that carried them, The use here would be to quickly block a hallway or some other bottle neck. To Small shields with daggers on the top and bottom that can also be used as weapons. Also its not to hard to make a shield that you can "let go of" Keep in mind you build a tool for the problem at hand, Your not building a shield to fight other people with weapons, Your building a shield to stop zombies from eating you. You would also carry it on your back unless you were fighting it only take a few secs to ready a shield. You have to think that the PC would quickly figure out that he/She is living in a war zone, and like any solider in a war zone you learn how to use your weapons and tools correctly and quickly or you die ....

[Brandon354]

Shields come in all manner of styles and Shapes, they have different functions, From massive 2 man siege shields that could be carried by two people and snapped together and set down then braced, Archers had Troops with them that carried them, The use here would be to quickly block a hallway or some other bottle neck. To Small shields with daggers on the top and bottom that can also be used as weapons. Also its not to hard to make a shield that you can "let go of" Keep in mind you build a tool for the problem at hand, Your not building a shield to fight other people with weapons, Your building a shield to stop zombies from eating you. You would also carry it on your back unless you were fighting it only take a few secs to ready a shield. You have to think that the PC would quickly figure out that he/She is living in a war zone, and like any solider in a war zone you learn how to use your weapons and tools correctly and quickly or you die ....

If the shield's handle can automatically snap loose easily such as getting snagged then if would no doubt break when 1 or 2 humans zombies yank/beat on it and if you can easily let go of it then it isn't very secure which is why you can let go, the 2 man shield would be destroyed similar to a door, and the shields with daggers would be a bad idea due to the force and area you would need to hit to kill a zombie, it would most likely get stuck not dealing a fatal blow. It is not a war zone it is more like predator and prey (obviously not 100% though), you just so happen to be prey who has been pushed into a corner and so is fighting back.

[Salvag3]

 

Shields come in all manner of styles and Shapes, they have different functions, From massive 2 man siege shields that could be carried by two people and snapped together and set down then braced, Archers had Troops with them that carried them, The use here would be to quickly block a hallway or some other bottle neck. To Small shields with daggers on the top and bottom that can also be used as weapons. Also its not to hard to make a shield that you can "let go of" Keep in mind you build a tool for the problem at hand, Your not building a shield to fight other people with weapons, Your building a shield to stop zombies from eating you. You would also carry it on your back unless you were fighting it only take a few secs to ready a shield. You have to think that the PC would quickly figure out that he/She is living in a war zone, and like any solider in a war zone you learn how to use your weapons and tools correctly and quickly or you die ....

If the shield's handle can automatically snap loose easily such as getting snagged then if would no doubt break when 1 or 2 humans zombies yank/beat on it and if you can easily let go of it then it isn't very secure which is why you can let go, the 2 man shield would be destroyed similar to a door, and the shields with daggers would be a bad idea due to the force and area you would need to hit to kill a zombie, it would most likely get stuck not dealing a fatal blow. It is not a war zone it is more like predator and prey (obviously not 100% though), you just so happen to be prey who has been pushed into a corner and so is fighting back.

 

 

 The idea of the quick release is used in all sorts of things, Think of a 5 point harness for a Race car or the harness on Parachute, a simple level or button can hold it in place but still allow the user to release with a simple action. Simply putting a sharp cutting edge around the edge of the shield would make it very hard for a zed to hold on to it. The Siege style shield was more of a example of how many different types on shields that have been used over the many years of warfare. As for the Dagger shield, you use a Jabbing like attack to deliver the blow. But this also was meant to be a example of the different types of shields that already have existed in human history. Almost all of the Dagger like shields I have seen were very small used by skilled swordsmen to turn aside a blow and make a quick counter attack, As far as the blade getting stuck, you over come that by making it a cone shaped spike that wont get stuck. I agree that its usefulness vs zombies would not be as high as it would be in combat with another armed combatant. The Most useful type of shield that I can think of would be a Modern Tower shield, most people know it as a Riot shield, these types of Shields could be used by more than one person, 1 person to hold the shield with someone behind them to use some kind of weapon with reach, like a spear. The more people you have the safer you are, at some point your party would pretty much be a Roman Phalanx. If you could manage to collect that many people and the equipment

 

   It seems like most people would only use them when they had to. IE something like you have a sick member of your group and you have to get him/her meds, The only meds you know of are in the ER and you know your going to have to fight to get them. I think most people in the Zom Apoc would avoid contact with the dead unless they had no other choice. ( But some people are more disposed to fighting back than others see below )

 

   As for prey being pushed into a corner idea, that my fiend would depend on the person/persons. Different people look at things differently. One person might lead his Party of people with the Driving idea of fighting a gorilla style war hoping that by fighting back every chance they get they can thin down the number of zombies. And hope that some place some where our Gov has rallied and drawn a line in the sand so to speak. And that's only a matter of time before help comes. My example here would be the 101st Airborne holding the line at the battle of the Bulge. Granted this is a extreme example as those men were highly trained and combat tested Solider's at that point. And they knew that all they had to do was hold the line that more troops would be coming at some point. 

 

But I would think that say School teacher that has managed to keep Some of her kids alive when the crap hit the fan would be trying to do what ever it takes to not let Zed find them. 

[Brandon354]

 

 

 As for prey being pushed into a corner idea, that my fiend would depend on the person/persons. Different people look at things differently. One person might lead his Party of people with the Driving idea of fighting a gorilla style war hoping that by fighting back every chance they get they can thin down the number of zombies. And hope that some place some where our Gov has rallied and drawn a line in the sand so to speak. And that's only a matter of time before help comes. My example here would be the 101st Airborne holding the line at the battle of the Bulge. Granted this is a extreme example as those men were highly trained and combat tested Solider's at that point. And they knew that all they had to do was hold the line that more troops would be coming at some point. 

 

 

YOU S.O.B. I AM NOT A DEMON LIKE MONSTER/BAD PERSON 

[Kajin]

You made Mikuru Brandon cry!

[/joke]

[Salvag3]

Lulz friend not fiend, auto correct fail ill never make friends here with this autocorrect monkey on my back.

[Kajin]

We've all got something on our back on this forum. Monkeys aren't uncommon but it's usually zombies. Or lamprey eels.

 

But now I'm enjoying a wonderful thought where a bunch of survivors are standing in a field with makeshift shields and stabbing weapons, holding off a horde of zeds Legionnaire style. Rome would be so proud.

[Salvag3]

We've all got something on our back on this forum. Monkeys aren't uncommon but it's usually zombies. Or lamprey eels.

 

But now I'm enjoying a wonderful thought where a bunch of survivors are standing in a field with makeshift shields and stabbing weapons, holding off a horde of zeds Legionnaire style. Rome would be so proud.

 

Ah yes the Spear, Spear like weapons are the Melee weapon I think needs to be added the most, Light weight, Long Reach, can be thrown, easy to make, I mean you can sharpen a stick and put the pointy end in a fire and bam, you have a spear, even better break the handle off a knife and wedge the blade into a stick with 2 Ton Apox then wrap it with leather cord thats been dipped in Apox, add two Rivits, nails, screw to finish it off and you have a pretty easy to construct and easy to wield yet very effective weapon, and since trees are every where as long as you have a saw you should be able to keep your self armed pretty easy when they break, 

[Bleebl00]

Spears and stabbing weapons may not be the best idea, think of it like this: You have to stab through the zombies skull or sever the the neck to kill it. In order to hit a target like that with a long spear would require tons of practice and precision, not to mention a lot of force. Those sorts of weapons were designed for humans who cringe from pain and would back off after a single attack. A lot of people are arguing about the shield so here is my input. Shields wouldn't be too hard to make know and many of you think the zombie would grab it. Yes, a zombie would grab the shield but they would not pull, they would lean their weight on it, however they wouldn't let go. Meaning if you tried to bash the zombie away and they somehow caught the large object heading for them then they would pull you with them. A way to release the shield is a good idea though what happens now that you have lost it? you probably spent a lot of time and resources on that shield was it worth it? I'm not saying that a shield is a bad idea but it would require a lot of planning before it is as effective as you would want it to be.

 

Also a lot of you are focused on bladed weapons, there is a reason blunt weapons rule this game, they get the job done. they are able to essentially bypass the human skeleton. While swords would be a cool addition to the game they are heavy and cumbersome and could easily break upon a bone. I read somewhere that bones are as strong as concrete, swords (again like spears) were made to cut flesh, not bone. However a large blunt metal object could be much more feasible with a smithing/welding mechanic. Though they would be more likely to be heavy and exhausting to swing. Being able to craft nails would (in my opinion) be an invaluable skill though.

[Kajin]

Spears are a better teamwork weapon, I imagine. Zed comes charging, spear wielder stabs it in the chest and locks it in place while player with a hammer or knife finishes it with a single strike while it's less mobile. And I agree on crafting of nails. Those suckers are pretty essential.

 

I imagine handmade rope would be easier to make and come by, but nails are still a pretty good thing to have.