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Zorak

Combat improvements

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We all know that they plan to change combat system in PZ.

Here is my view about how the combat system should look like in ver 1.0

I don’t want to go much into detail as I have faith in devs so ill just point main things with some explanation why I want to see them.

 

Gear

 

1)      weapons: more weapons to choose from is obvious thing. Machete, wrench, katana and many more but also different qualities of the same gear worn leather jacket, fine quality leather jacket, old rusty axe, sharp axe etc. You can use both of them to chop trees but the have a bit different stats. Nothing major but still tier 1 weapon will be worse than t2 (just like 5-10%).

WHY? We love to collect things. All MMOs are so addicting because players like to collect things. Small stats difference will do for them to spend hours in search for that perfect weapon and still keep the balance of the game.

2)      Upgrade gear: add the possibility to upgrade the gear we have. Sharp our blade weapons, balance blunt weapons, reinforce armor etc. Tie it to maintenance skill or some new kind of occupation and let us improve gear we find.

The reason for this is just the same as for different gear qualities. This time is a bit less random but finding a good gear and then the right person that can improve it to finnaly get “ perfect weapon/armor” will be nice addiction for most of us.

3)      More ranged weapons that use the same ammo. It’s a bit the same thins as 1) but this time  impact is bigger. I just don’t like that in most cases ammo X fits only to gun Y, ammo A to gun B etc. I like the situation like we have with fuel right now, will you use it to fuel up generator, create a flame bomb or fuel up a car (on day). A rare version of gun X that use the same ammo but have different stats would add that kind of dilemma. Few Examples hunting rifle -> sniper rifle (better range), shotgun -> duble barrel shotgun  (better damage, more spread), pistol -> automatic pistol (higher fire rate).

4)      Armor and shields. Leather jackets, baseball gear, riot gear, chain mails etc that give us protection vs bite and scratch. I don’t want to see a easy choices about gear like riot gear is better than leather jacket. All protection gear have to have downsides. Like: it weight more, it slows your swing and movement time, you get exhausted faster, for head gear it can limit your cone of view. Chain mails makes a lot of noise when you move and fight. Os instead of picking the armor with best protective stats you will pick the best one for the situation you are in.

Its another thing to collect, and another thing that give us an option. I like games with a lot of different and hard decisions to make. It will reward those that play smart.

 

Skills and fighting.

 

Unlocking new skill levels in blunt and blade skills will give us access to new killing moves. Each of that special attack will have own attack speed, endurance / energy cost, range, damage and cooldown. There wont be the best attack you will have to choose the right one for given situation. Cooldown is important otherwise we would just switch normal attack spam with special attack spam.

Few ideas: blown down, heavy strike (slow, high energy cost but  huge dmg), sweep strike (hits 3 targets in front and have pushback effect, lower dmg). 1 hit jaw stab also as separate blade skill. Some skills would be more effective vs zeds, some vs humans (like fast stabs in chest, good to kill a human but not so effective vs undead).

At higher skill levels we can gain access to improved versions of those attacks (lower energy cost, lower cooldown etc). Right now IMO its to easy for non combat build characters to kill large number of zeds. Pure combat build would be viable and with new animation update combat fighting horde would be very eye appealing. Ofc  leveling up combat skills can also give us passive traits not only active abilities. Some ideas about them, dual wielding weapons (dual pistol or dual hatchet), reloading while running (slower than normal but still). Small energy gain after killing zombie  (to represent anger / fury).

 

I know that Project Zomboid is not focused around combat but still combat is an important part of the game and some of us enjoy playing the game with combat build. We have a nice crafting professions, a high level  carpenter or doctor are great to have in community, lets make good battle hardened fighters also a valuable community members.

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A lot of good points in this post.  The part that really stands out to me is armor.  Leather jackets and chaps would be nice, adding some bite resistance.  Riot gear and the like would be cool to find in police stations.  Chain mail and stuff like it could be crafted I guess, but I would be fine with just stuff you could find in the world (probably not a lot of houses have chain mail).  I suppose you could craft it, but the idea of a novice making any kind of chain mail seems a stretch (at least useful chain mail). 

 

As far as balancing these items, there would be some challenge to get them just right, and no gear should make you immune to zed attacks.  Riot gear would be the closest thing to an invincibility suit, but could come at a cost of high encumbrance and fatigue.  I am sure if you were walking around Kentucky in summer with riot gear you would eventually get heat stroke.  Adding durability to said items would really go a long way in balancing said items.  Leather jackets can keep you from getting bit, but can become worn, and eventually lose all protective effects.  You would really have to weight protection from negative buffs, as most armors would make you hot, thirsty, and tired eventually. 

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No one says that everybody would be able to craft chain mail.

For ballancing armor items i was thinking about few negative things that come along

Limited con of vision (for helmets)

Weight -> you can carry less items

It slows your movement and attacks

It increase stamina usage when running and fighting

It make noise when you move (chain mail)

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I know they will make a good combat system but i don't think it will be like how you said with abilities. Makes it too easy to become a rambo you know? BWAMMO knocked 3 zombies 8 feet away! too good! much wow! You're just a regular guy remember?

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I'd be fine with just an overhead attack dealing more damage and hitting only one zombie at a time. It would be activated by holding LMB for a short moment as opposed to clicking for a regular swing.

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I agree on the weapons; I'd be happy just if there were more than one type of screwdriver, and there were more hammers than the small carpenter's hammer and the sledgehammer.

I also really like the armour idea, particularly the concept of trading bite protection for field of vision, movement and endurance; these mechanics are already in-game, so these could basically go straight in (I would hope).

Sporting gear, workplace safety gear, and some basic woolen and leather clothes would be sufficient for me as armour (I play SP).

Personally I'm concerned that metalworking etc is going to change the game into some medieval fantasy RPG thing, but that's just my opinion, and off-topic.

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I think what they are going for is more realism. Yes, we could have Katanas, and I live in Louisville and own a katana wakizashi set and a jian. Sword collecting has been a hobby of mine. But that would be a exceptionally rare find. Especially given I would probably break mine while fighting during the apocalypse..

 

Your examples include a lot of arcade type adjustments, whereas the game is heading another direction.  I doubt even armor will be included because the zombies are easy enough as it is, no need to wade into them in a suit of full plate with some kevlar underneath while holding a bag of grenades at your left and a desert eagle in your right, with a chainsaw at your belt. That is a very cool setup, but.... that doesn't really mesh with what the game is trying to accomplish. That is more something for Dead Rising. the same for special moves. I think you may be playing the wrong game. They already made several games for those who want to blast and smash and crash through hordes of zombies. 

 

Ammo types really are a thing, upgrades aren't. Yea you can put a laser sight on a pistol, but a sword is sharp because its supposed to be and that is reflected in its condition. Shields aren't really a thing, yes, I know Riot shields, but in this isometric top down game, a shield isn't going to end well for you. And armor, yea you can possibly get some football padding or some kevlar. And when NPCs are added.. i'd like some Kevlar. Last thing I need is to get shot. But other then some thick jean motorcycle gear, you aren't going to find much here unless you make it, and like I said, Full plate doesn't match the game and the game is already simple.. 

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When I think of hand crafting armor I think more of large plated pieces rather than freakin' chainmail (wait for the dragons). How about something like Ned Kelly's armor

 

Four_armours480w.jpg

 

Much more practical for the average joe!

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43 minutes ago, Slice985 said:

Sniped

I dont think those things I wrote are unreal or arcade. For all weapons you can find them sharp or dull, item condition is a real thing and sometime you can incease it quality if you know how (sharp the blade).

 

Making full plate or whatever end game armor a no brainer pick is also not my intention.  each piece of gear shield or armor will always have some negative sides, its up to you if you want to sacrifice some things to gain small bite resistance.

 

I know that zombie killing is not the main part of the game, but then again a lot of us play that way and i still prefer pz over l4d2 coz killing zeds is just one of many thing i can do in the game.

Some of us like rich crafting system that pz offers, I just wanted a bit more love for combat aspect of the game.

And those things i mentioned are not unreal. If z apocalypse ever happen some sword and chain mail would be my way to go on loot runs.

 

As for why chain mail not plate armor, chain mail is indeed more time consuming to make but it dont limit your movement as much as full plate armor does. And its not based on 1000+ h of RPG games experiance, I was a member of medieval reconstruction group.

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I think it should be less Street Fighter and more a martial arts trait, which gives you a chance to kill a standing zombie, while barehanded. Maybe a punch or a kick with mouse attack and standard spacebar push. As for armor, I think more modern armor would be better. Leathers, sports equipment, kevlar, ect

Edited by TheDreaded1

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