Fluffy

You make a good point, it is still early days and any post made here is pure speculation of how the game might develop. In that spirit let me present two possible scenarios of how cars, fuel and generators could impact the game.
 
Scenario 1: Finite amount of Fuel, Infinite Shelf-life.
With a limited amount of fuel dotted around the map, it would limit the amount of long distance car journeys the players would be able to make, equally it would limit the runtime of generators. This would lead to a setting where the player would have to choose carefully how to use the fuel available to them. In the long run the player will be faced with the situation, where he would have to say goodbye to the luxuries of the world gone past, no more fast travel or electricity. A bleak future indeed, but a future that fits the setting of the game rather well. You already have to survive in a world without electricity as the game stands at the moment and I for one think it's a very nice touch and brings home the fact that the world as we know it has ended.
 
Scenario 2: Renewable source of Fuel, Limited Shelf-life.
If you introduce a limit to how long fuel lasts before it spoils (similar to food), then in my opnion it would be wise to present an alternative to scavanged fuel supplies. This would lead to a situation where the player could build a small industry to supply himself with fuel to make as many car journeys as he likes and to end up with a limited but endless supply of electricity, to power things like lights and a fridge. This would change the feel of the game significantly, from a bleak end of the world feel, to a feeling of hope and rebuilding society, with an attempt to reconquer the luxuries of the world gone past.
 
I kind of like both scenarios, though they are mutually exclusive. I like scenario 1 because it continues the feel of the game as it stands. It's a fight for survival with limited luxuries, a struggle as we know, will ultimately end badly. Scenario 2 satisfies my need for tragic endings. You have just started to rebuild your little corner of society, mastered the supply of fuel and electricity only to be bitten or scratched by a random zombie and dying, never to see the fruits of your labour.
 
There are ofcourse many more scenarios. I like discussing the future impacts of introducing cars, fuel and generators because, as shown in my two examples, the impact on the game can be very significant depending on the way it is implemented.

If all you wanted to say is "make some categories and more traits and put traits in categories", then I got your idea wrong because I thougt you wanted to put a predesigned backgrounds for the traits . In fact, I think adding categories and more traits is essential for game variety (as most of the people pick the same traits). I still like the trait point system, but it's unbalanced right now. Adding categories and some kind of limit per categorie could help balancing traits.
Bad psycological aspects do exist. A paranoid will be watching his surroundings more carefully, yes, and he will spend most of the time worrying about something useless like "did i hear something? I should take a look" and 5 minutes after taking a look "did i hear something? I should take a look again". Being paranoid is time consuming and tiresome, it's not just about being panicked. Optimistic and depressed just work the other way around. The pessimist will think "why do I even try?" when he fails, while the optimist will be "I failed this time, but next time I won't fail". Even if a horde eat all your friends and burn your house leaving you with nothing more than some food and a golf club, the optimist will recover sooner from a bad mood than the pessimist. How about angry? what's the benefit of being angry all the time? or grumpy? or scatterbrained? In some cases, there is no "bright side" of a bad personality.

This is one of those things that has always kind of irked me about PZ, and it's that combat skills don't carry over between weapons. I mean sure, a person who is good with a battleaxe might not do nearly as well with a baseball bat... But if you've worked hard enough to reach level five in axes, some of that combat skill is going to carry over into general fighting because by that point your character has seen enough fighting to generally know how to handle themselves in a crisis.
 
Basically, there should be two general combat skills: Melee and Ranged. Training put into the Melee skill raises combat proficiency with all melee weapons as it's a reflection of your character's general combat skill. It shows that they can handle themselves well in a fight. Training put into the Ranged skill represents your character's knowledge of projectile base weapons whether it be a sling, a crossbow, a bow, or guns. Obviously, more points in this skill raises your character's ability to use various ranged weapons.
 
Beyond that, you can still put skills into the various weapon types in order to sort of "specialize" in their use. If one has three points in a weapon based skill, that means they can handle that weapon very efficiently and benefit from using that weapon more than they would from using others. A character with three points in Melee and three points in a weapon skill will have an effective skill level of six when using that weapon and an effective skill level of three when using any other weapon.
 
Another thing that irks me is that weapon skills are too general. Right now melee weapons are split into Blunt and Blade, which is way oversimplifying it. Somehow you're just as good with a knife as you are with an axe, even though you've been using an axe almost exclusively and only recently started using a knife which has a number of fundamental differences in how it is best wielded. So I suggest that these weapon skills be separated into more specialized areas. For Melee, there would be an Axe skill, a Club skill, a Knife skill, a Crowbar skill and a Spear skill. For Ranged, there should be a Bow skill, a Crossbow skill, a Sling skill, a Shotgun skill, a Rifle skill and a Handgun skill. A few of those weapons don't exist yet in the game, but I included them as examples anyway just in case they do get added.
 
Thoughts?

You make a good point, it is still early days and any post made here is pure speculation of how the game might develop. In that spirit let me present two possible scenarios of how cars, fuel and generators could impact the game.
 
Scenario 1: Finite amount of Fuel, Infinite Shelf-life.
With a limited amount of fuel dotted around the map, it would limit the amount of long distance car journeys the players would be able to make, equally it would limit the runtime of generators. This would lead to a setting where the player would have to choose carefully how to use the fuel available to them. In the long run the player will be faced with the situation, where he would have to say goodbye to the luxuries of the world gone past, no more fast travel or electricity. A bleak future indeed, but a future that fits the setting of the game rather well. You already have to survive in a world without electricity as the game stands at the moment and I for one think it's a very nice touch and brings home the fact that the world as we know it has ended.
 
Scenario 2: Renewable source of Fuel, Limited Shelf-life.
If you introduce a limit to how long fuel lasts before it spoils (similar to food), then in my opnion it would be wise to present an alternative to scavanged fuel supplies. This would lead to a situation where the player could build a small industry to supply himself with fuel to make as many car journeys as he likes and to end up with a limited but endless supply of electricity, to power things like lights and a fridge. This would change the feel of the game significantly, from a bleak end of the world feel, to a feeling of hope and rebuilding society, with an attempt to reconquer the luxuries of the world gone past.
 
I kind of like both scenarios, though they are mutually exclusive. I like scenario 1 because it continues the feel of the game as it stands. It's a fight for survival with limited luxuries, a struggle as we know, will ultimately end badly. Scenario 2 satisfies my need for tragic endings. You have just started to rebuild your little corner of society, mastered the supply of fuel and electricity only to be bitten or scratched by a random zombie and dying, never to see the fruits of your labour.
 
There are ofcourse many more scenarios. I like discussing the future impacts of introducing cars, fuel and generators because, as shown in my two examples, the impact on the game can be very significant depending on the way it is implemented.

This might be a little preemptive, but since it seems exceptionally likely that we will be able to have generators and/or vehicles in the future, I want to suggest being able to use a wood gasifier as an alternative to petrol.
 
For those that don't know what that is, it is basically extracting gas from wood via heating, which can then be used in combustion engines (or heating etc etc)
 
The process for doing this is very simple and well within the reach of the common man. Wood gas was used before natural gas to heat homes and the like. It was also exceptional common during the petrol shortages of WWII for people to construct them at home to be used to power their cars instead of petrol. They are still made and used all over the world today in many different situations.
 
The basics behind constructing a wood gasifier are:
 
A large container that can be opened and shut (think a 44Gl drum) with a one way valve leading from it. This is placed over a fire, filled with wood (or sawdust, coal or even rubber). The outlet of the one way valve is then ran through some piping to allow it to cool, then a filter (optional) and finally into the carburetor of the engine.
 
What happens is as the wood is heated, it releases hydrogen and carbon monoxide, which then pass thought the pipe, the filter and into the engine to be burnt in the combustion chamber as a petrol replacement.
 
Now as I said, these are an very easy thing to construct by the average man, and in fact, were constructed, en mass, by the average man during times of need. They could be used to fuel a small engine which then runs an generator to provide electricity, or even (as they historically were) hooked directly onto a car to provide a fuel alternative.
 
 
Some links:
Wood Gas = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas
Wood Gasifier = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator
A small simple gasifier to show how they work = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgu9BdHeUYg
Wood gasifier used to power lawn mower engine = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F258s13UxfY
Example of what can be done with a gasifier = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYGKn12Weu4
How to build a gasifier = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDIiEjL5eGM

I don't envision these as being wholly positive or negative.  I think they should be change, transformation, or evolution for the character.  Much like real life, whether surviving these experiences change you in a good or bad way is often in the eye of the beholder.  Do you focus on the frustration of needing to always be encumbered by food, or do you relish the fact you can find food in places overlooked by most?
 
Tragically, I have close personal experience with both real starvation and clinical PTSD.  You cannot even imagine either if you haven't experienced them. Both change you in profound ways (provided you survive), but I'd struggle to say the change was "good" or "bad".
 
"Badge" is probably a misleading term, as you wouldn't want players to be able to game the system and get the badges.  But you really cannot control all player behavior in a game like this so I don't think you could design around those player actions.  But if you make the resulting effect balanced, you will reduce the incentives to "get" the badge.
 
The idea of creating a disincentive to getting the "badge" would suggest the overall effect of the "badge" should be negative.  However, I think the game itself should properly create a disincentive to getting a "badge".  You should really be close to death to qualify.  If the end effect is balanced, you will reduce the incentive to risk perma-death just to get it.

MacArthur guided Japan's transition to a democratic form of government. In a testimony before Congress MacArthur called Japan a “boy of 12" in need of instructions on the basics of Western democracy and capitalism. Among his first actions was confiscating 5 million swords.
 
Source: http://factsanddetails.com/asian/ca67/sub429/item2513.html
 
And that was just the begining, there were many more collect over a few years. Don't underestimate how many swords the Japanese had.
 
If you take the mean value of 300k divide it by 50 states, you still end up wih 6000 in kentucky alone. That is assuming an even distribution, which wouldn't be the case, so the number would likely be higher.
 
In any case, you are right in saying while there were plenty brought over, they would be rare if spread amongst the population. All I am saying is, it would be nice to maybe have 1 or 2 as a rare find.

I am not sure about your idea. Don't get me wrong it's a nice idea and in reality most perks have both positive and negative sides to them. But I figured the reason these traits exsist is to force the player to balance positive traits with negative ones. Grey perks don't really work in that setting.
 
I really like the Green Thumb idea, but wouldn't we need a negative one for balance reasons?
 
Grass-assin trait | + 4 Points | Plants planted by you start with less health, and are more likely to catch diseases.
 
Source for the name: http://sabtastic.deviantart.com/journal/poll/1062025/

I am not a big fan of renewable energy in survival games. Would it be realistic to find solar panels or wind mills? Sure it would. But do we really want them in the game?
 
My position is simple. The thing I like the most about good survival games, is that you have to leave your comfy base to scavange for items. As soon as you introduce unlimited power (slightly exaggerated but I hope you know what I mean), you kind of loose the incentive to go out and scavange for fuel sources. Power generators are already coming into the game and that is cool, because you will still need fuel to power them. But I personally dislike anything that gives me something for free in a survival game, I love it in real life, but not in game.

I have mentioned this in other topics before, but I figured it deserves its own topic, to discuss possible implications.

Petrol & diesel are perishable goods.
It is difficult to say how long they last (If you know the answer please share it with us), but according to my research, depending on how you store it, somewhere between 3-6 months.
There doesn't seem to be a major difference in the shelf life of petrol or diesel, it's more or less the same. If you store it in a fuel canister it will certanly outlast fuel stored in fuel tanks of cars. This is due to impurities and air in fuel tanks.
 
Why should we care about perishable fuels?
For one, the devs want to make a realistic game and it is a fact that Petrol & Diesel don't last forever.
Two, it is a survial game and I love how food is perishable in game, it means you have to worry about constantly restocking your supply. I feel the same should apply to our fuel supply. It simply adds to the struggle of staying alive and thus adds to the fun factor this game creates so amazingly well.
 
Implications once cars and fuel are added to the game:
Similar to water and electricity, there will be a time where all the fuel found on the map has become obsolete. The question is, how long should fuel last? That will depend on where you get your fuel from:
 
Siphoned from Cars: 6 months.
Fuel Canister: 9 months.
Gas Station: 9 months.
 
You will notice I have extended the shelf life a bit and that is because during my research many people suggested that their petrol lasted beyond the specified 3-6 months period. Also in terms of gameplay, it would be handy to have the fuel left around the map last a little longer.

What happens after 9 months have past?
Obviously we will need access to a fuel source once all the exsisting fuels have gone bad. We only really have 2 options: (if you know of more options share them)
 
Bio Diesel:
It is relatively easy to produce bio diesel but the emphasis is on relatively. The process isn't to difficult to learn but you will need access to raw materials which aren't gonna be easy to come by in a post appocalyptic world. For one method you will require: Organic Oil, Methanol, Potassium or Sodium Hydroxide.
There are many other methods which use other ingredients, so if you know of a simple one that would work in a post appocalyptic world please share it with us. 
 
Vegetable Oil:
Diesel engines can also run on vegetable oil, which unlike bio diesel will be easier to produce. But it shares the same issue with bio diesel; you have to heat it up to ensure the fluidity is sufficiently high enough to be used in a diesel engine. Which can be an issue since most modified diesel powered cars use a 2 tank system (1 for diesel, 1 for bio diesel), that uses conventional diesel to heat up the bio diesel to operating temperature.
Once again if you know of another method of using bio diesel without the help of conventional diesel, let us know.
 
Also to make vegetable oil, we will need a suitable crop to grow and turn into oil. Rapeseed or Sunflower oil seem like a good choice, but if you have a better one share it with us.
 
Choice of engine:
Not sure how much thought the devs have put into this, but if fuel was made perishable, petrol engine cars will become useless after the petrol had gone bad. This means we will need to have both petrol and diesel powered cars in game. It would be nice to have a few modified diesel engine cars dotted around the map as a rare find.
As far as I know, most if not all power generators are diesel powered, so that shouldn't be an issue once they are introduced.
 
Summary:
I have raised a few questions in this post, to which we will need to find answers:

Do we want fuel to be perishable?
if yes:
How long should it last before going off?
Do we want Bio Diesel in the game?, If yes what kind?
Do we want Vegetable Oil as a fuel source?, If yes what plants do we need?
What type of engined cars / generators do we want in the game?
Do we need a new skill like mechanic to modify engines?
Is this post a waste of time?
 
Lastly, I am no expert on this subject, so feel free to point out any mistakes or things I have missed.
 
Thank you for taking the time to read this post & I am looking forward to your comments.

Yes you can grow stuff on grass. Not sure if there is an advantage of using dirt, I just use it make my farm look all nice and pretty.
 
The only advantage I can think of, you can poor the dirt on any surface and grow food there. In other words make a roof garden/farm.
 
 
 
I like the idea of using rotten leftovers to fertilise your plants. Though this has been suggested a few times before.

I was thinking the same thing. Why not have a really old steam engine of a train stashed away somewhere. I doubt we will have access to alot of coal in the game, but you could clear a small forrest to power the train.
 
Fuel problem solved, but there is one issue ... maybe two.
If Rathlord thinks its tricky to drive a Diesel or Electric train, a Steam Engine is a whole new ball game. The way I understand it, its a constant ballancing act of fuel, heat and steam pressure to keep the train running and ideally not blowing up. In other words a little more knowhow than a manual could provide. Well it would have to be an extremly comprehensive manual.
 
Also you will need in (PZ terms) a small ocean of water to run the train, much more than your rain collecters could provide.
But yeah maybe as people said, it could work as an endgame thing. Once you have a small Forrest of wood & a small Ocean of water & got every relevant skill to level 5, maybe then you could have a go.

Not sure, it might have been that show, honestly can't remember.

I did a little more research into this, but can't seem to find a definitive answer. It seems most modern fuels have an official shelf life of 3-6 months. But it also depends entirely on how it is stored, so it can much longer.

One thing is for sure, the petrol in parked cars is most likely gonna go of first.
 
In any case this could lead to some interesting consequence in gameplay.

I was thinking the same thing. Why not have a really old steam engine of a train stashed away somewhere. I doubt we will have access to alot of coal in the game, but you could clear a small forrest to power the train.
 
Fuel problem solved, but there is one issue ... maybe two.
If Rathlord thinks its tricky to drive a Diesel or Electric train, a Steam Engine is a whole new ball game. The way I understand it, its a constant ballancing act of fuel, heat and steam pressure to keep the train running and ideally not blowing up. In other words a little more knowhow than a manual could provide. Well it would have to be an extremly comprehensive manual.
 
Also you will need in (PZ terms) a small ocean of water to run the train, much more than your rain collecters could provide.
But yeah maybe as people said, it could work as an endgame thing. Once you have a small Forrest of wood & a small Ocean of water & got every relevant skill to level 5, maybe then you could have a go.

If there was a ingame VOIP, I hope it worked by proximity only, and also attracted zombies.

Those are all really good suggestions, I am a big fan of the plane idea in particular.

My suggestion is so obvious it makes me think this must have been suggested before.
 
Place/Landmark: Prison
Where: Somewhere rural outside of town.
Reason it'd rock: Same reason the characters of the walking dead set up shop in one, easy to defend, got grassy areas for farming, with a big fence around it. Kind of like a modern castle. Also it will be great fun clearing the dark corridors full of zombies.
Zombie Density Expected: High Zombie density, because lets face it, it's set in America with overcrowded prisons. I doubt anyone would think to relase the prisoners in times of an apocalypse. Also we should be able to find a few weapons and ammo stocks from the guards.
 

First off I really like the game, but I feel it's missing one thing. It's a common issue with survival games. What do you do once you have settled into a lovely base, stocked food and supplies?
 
For me the answer is roaming hordes of zombies.
 
Picture this; you baricaded yourself in your base got a lovely farm going, a plentyfull supply of water, stocks of ammo and construction materials and so on. You are settled and living in comfort, but all of the sudden a massive horde of Zombies come by and force you to defend or even give up your home and flee to a safer place.

Yes I know there are similar mechanisms already in place in the game, like the random gunshots, helicopters flying by and so on. They are all very good ideas and mix up the local zombie population. But what if you have cleared the area of zombies entirely?

The actual proposal:
In other words I am proposing an off map spawn of a Zombie Horde, that move on mass together in a random direction across the map. Even better would be the spawn of multiple hordes on different ends of the map.

In my opinion it would add another challange to the game. It would certainly unsettle me if I happen to come across a roaming horde or if a horde happens to pass by my base of operation. At the very least it would mix up the local zombie population and supply you with another fun combat challenge.
 
I am not entirely sure if this has been proposed before, I havn't seen anything like it in the stickies or other topics I have browsed. But I would be happy to see some form of roaming hordes of Zombies in the game.