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Longsword


Konrad Knox

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1. Swords aren't likely to be common in Kentucky. Guns, on the other hand..

2. Most people won't know how to use a sword, and are more likely to just injure themselves. (Sorry!)

Your right. Of all my regional time in the area, only one guy I've met had one, and he had 2. And they weren't too big neither. They were the kind that were something you would use to open a pickle jar or something. because they weren't something you'd really want to use as a sword. I've been to multiple pawnshops in the state, and my own, and haven't found many. There are a few, but not enough to mention. 

 

(But then again, a lot of us Hoosiers and Wildcats have guns. I have around 2 alone. I used to have 4, and that's AVERAGE, in my area. Lots of guns... So your right about that. We carry 'em with pride! :lol:)

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I have a bunch of swords in my collection, but they're all decorative. Made of cheap materials that bend or break easy and have no sharpened edges. They'd break before they killed even one zed.

 

Aye, this is the real clencher here. Of all the swords floating around Kentucky, I'd wager over 90% were replicas or display models. The amount of combat forged swords in the world is very, very small unfortunately.

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What about Japanese swords?

I did watch a documentary the other day, about the aftermath of WW2. It said, the americans confiscated almost all Japanese swords in the land. Most were destroyed, but also a lot of them were taken home as (legal) trophies by the soldiers. Theoretically there should be a few floating about in Kentucky, but I have no idea of how common they are. Most probably lay forgotten in attics.

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Did some more thinking about how common they might be. My logic is as follows:

Fort Knox (Military Base) is in the area. Thus military personnel is also bount to life in the area. Military service does sometimes run in families. Old people die and leave their precious belongings to their children or children's children.

 

Meaning there is an higher than average chance that someone serving at Fort Knox, could have an old Japanese sword laying about in their house somewhere.

 

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What about Japanese swords?

I did watch a documentary the other day, about the aftermath of WW2. It said, the americans confiscated almost all Japanese swords in the land. Most were destroyed, but also a lot of them were taken home as (legal) trophies by the soldiers. Theoretically there should be a few floating about in Kentucky, but I have no idea of how common they are. Most probably lay forgotten in attics.

This has been discussed before. Most Japanese swords that can be found are without a doubt cheap replicas as mentioned above. I'd allow for the possibility of anywhere between one and five real swords in the entire state of Kentucky, and that's being somewhat generous. I doubt you'd ever come across one.

 

The closest to a real sword I imagine anyone coming across would likely be an old military saber, like the ones used in the civil war. Unsure how well they'd have held up over the years and they'd still be pretty rare. Maybe not common enough to matter in the grand scheme of it all.

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Just to be clear I wasn't talking about replicas, but real swords issed by the japanese army in WW2. That and a few very rare proper ancient swords handed down through the generations, which then got conviscated by the americans.

I think you would find more than 5 swords, but they wouldn't be common place.

 

EDIT:

We are talking about over 5 million confiscated swords.

250,000 - 350,000 estimated to have been brought back to the US.

 

In terms of swords in private collection, Japanese swords would undoubtedly outnumber old military sabers.

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1) OMGZ DAT SWORD LOOK COOL!

2) To be honest, I don't think you'd find swords around lots. Maybe hung up in a museum, maybe found on display on someones fireplace, But, I suck at predicting! Someone is likely to make a mod with all these swords :) One day, when I learn to even touch modding, I will make you a German Longsword...

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Just to be clear I wasn't talking about replicas, but real swords issed by the japanese army in WW2. That and a few very rare proper ancient swords handed down through the generations, which then got conviscated by the americans.

I think you would find more than 5 swords, but they wouldn't be common place.

 

EDIT:

We are talking about over 5 million confiscated swords.

250,000 - 350,000 estimated to have been brought back to the US.

 

In terms of swords in private collection, Japanese swords would undoubtedly outnumber old military sabers.

You're severely overestimating how common they'd be. If I took those estimates and divide them by the number of people in the U.S., that's one real sword per thousand people. Not nearly common enough to warrant having in the game.

 

And I'm not sure where you got those numbers, but they can't possibly be accurate. Real swords were only given to officers of the Japanese military. Even if the conquerers took all of them, it wouldn't come anywhere close to a single fraction of 5 million. There might not even be that many antique pieces left. Not after the fall of the Samurai noble class and subsequent ban of sword ownership.

 

But even if all of that speculation is wrong, it just doesn't match the feel of the game the devs are supposedly going for. A katana is something someone has when they want to try and fit the stereotype of the cinematic badass, and this game isn't meant to be that. This is about an ordinary survivor just trying to make ends meet after the world falls to shit. You don't get to play Michonne, carving a swath of blood with each stroke of your badass blade. You're John Q. Averageman, with your baseball bat or your wood axe.

 

I'd be willing to accept finding an old saber since that's a part of U.S. history and might be something an old military collector would be proud to have. Or maybe a machete, since those are pretty common. But as far as swords go, I think those would likely be the closest options to something that could reasonably be found.

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Would have this kind of weapon. Mace, sword, flail weapon, are found only in appropriate places. Museum shop, etc. broker.

Yes why not. I also suggested in another of my posts to find a suit of armor in a museum. But there will be only one or two across the map.

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MacArthur guided Japan's transition to a democratic form of government. In a testimony before Congress MacArthur called Japan a “boy of 12" in need of instructions on the basics of Western democracy and capitalism. Among his first actions was confiscating 5 million swords.

 

Source: http://factsanddetails.com/asian/ca67/sub429/item2513.html

 

And that was just the begining, there were many more collect over a few years. Don't underestimate how many swords the Japanese had.

 

If you take the mean value of 300k divide it by 50 states, you still end up wih 6000 in kentucky alone. That is assuming an even distribution, which wouldn't be the case, so the number would likely be higher.

 

In any case, you are right in saying while there were plenty brought over, they would be rare if spread amongst the population. All I am saying is, it would be nice to maybe have 1 or 2 as a rare find.

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I like this debate and all, but has anyone thought about the Japanese version of the right to bear arms? Talk about a lot of sword attacks... Anyways, yeah, highly doubt swords would be very common and the comment about Japanese swords being more common than old military sabers, simply golden. But regardless the comment was still wrong no matter how funny I found it. I don't think I need to point out the obvious but Americans just don't own very many swords.

 

Edit: Note, I didn't say anything about the idea. I said it wouldn't be realistic, but then again, realism vs game play I do believe I heard game play trumps realism in the end, right?

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To put it another way 0.35% of Kentucky households would be likely to have a Japanese Sword confiscated after WW2.

Households: 1,691,716   Source:http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/21000.html

 

Edit: Ok maybe my assumption about the sabers isn't 100% accurate. But I figured, civil war sabers are really old as opposed to the Japanese Swords. Not many sabers would be in Private collections, but alot of Japanese swords have (relatively speaking) recently been introduced to the US. Which makes me think they are far more likely to find.

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MacArthur guided Japan's transition to a democratic form of government. In a testimony before Congress MacArthur called Japan a “boy of 12" in need of instructions on the basics of Western democracy and capitalism. Among his first actions was confiscating 5 million swords.

 

Source: http://factsanddetails.com/asian/ca67/sub429/item2513.html

 

And that was just the begining, there were many more collect over a few years. Don't underestimate how many swords the Japanese had.

 

If you take the mean value of 300k divide it by 50 states, you still end up wih 6000 in kentucky alone. That is assuming an even distribution, which wouldn't be the case, so the number would likely be higher.

 

In any case, you are right in saying while there were plenty brought over, they would be rare if spread amongst the population. All I am saying is, it would be nice to maybe have 1 or 2 as a rare find.

The article doesn't seem to say anything about what they did with those swords, either. Far as either of us know they could have all been broken down for their metal and used as material for the reconstruction efforts.

 

Implementing it just wouldn't be worth it, in my opinion. Either you say "fuck it" and add a whole bunch of them (which, as I've stated before, just doesn't go with the aesthetic of a regular joe just trying to get by because the Katana is the quintessential sword of trench coat wearing badasses, a design choice this game goes out of its way to undermine where possible), or you make them rare which goes the opposite direction and adds almost nothing to the game in any sense apart from having it as some sort of trophy. What's the point of adding something if there isn't enough of the item for you to ever actually own one?

 

As I said before. You want a sword in the game, best possible options are the machete or the cavalry saber. A machete is common enough to find (you can buy then at freaking walmart) and the cavalry saber has less of that OMGWTFBBQHAXXORZ awesomeness stigma attached to it. Plus it just feels more right. Fits the aesthetic of Kentucky a little better than some foreign sword, since these are the only actual swords relevant to U.S. history.

 

edit: Note, I didn't say anything about the idea. I said it wouldn't be realistic, but then again, realism vs game play I do believe I heard game play trumps realism in the end, right?

From what I understand, concessions are generally made for gameplay where necessary but for the most part realism is usually what comes out on top for PZ.

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Sorry I missed that, source for the estimate brought over: http://books.google.at/books?id=6nSkY_z4hAgC&pg=PP4&lpg=PP4&dq=estimated+number+of+japanese+swords+in+the+us&source=bl&ots=0yqIptV6fg&sig=8e0z5pH8ckiOIhfc_wNBfFCItKA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z43gU9WCF7KV7AbOqYHoCw&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=estimated%20number%20of%20japanese%20swords%20in%20the%20us&f=false

 

I simply wanted to point out that the Katanas aren't quite as rare in the US as you might think.

 

In terms of gameplay, yeah a Machete would be great to have in game, & the most logical choice. Compared to that, the Katana would be infinitly more rare. Personaly I like rare finds in games. I figured it wouldn't take that much time to add one to the game, even if most people won't find the sword. Does it fit the mood of the game? Well a Machete would be a better fit, I agree with that. But if I were in a Zombie Apocalypse I would rather have a longer sword, it allows me to strike the Zombie at a greater range. For that reason I would want one, I don't really care about looking badass, in the end, to the zombies I just look like food.

In terms of realism, ask yourself this: Is it realistic to say there are 0 Katanas in the Fort Knox area? (Sometimes the question of realism just ends up in a pointless argument - counter agrument situation.)

Realism vs Gameplay: That is the crucial question here, in my opinion it's a case by case evaluation. A sword of any kind would havefer another blade melee weapon, that would (in my humble opinion) be more durable than all others. Assuming it's not an old ancient sword about to turn into a heap of dust.



 

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So many people would love to wield a sword in PZ. Why not make a mod with some non-decorative katanas? It's unrealistic, but as long it doesn't end up in the vanilla game it doesn't matter, right? Everyone is free to play PZ the way he wants.

 

Oh, please make it a mod!

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I'd RATHER have a light saber, but what we'd rather have isn't really relevant to what's good for the game.

Just think to yourself "how many people do I know with battle ready katanas?"

 

I don't life in the US so I don't know any. I had a mate with a replica, but that doesn't really count. I can only repeat myself, my point is while they are still rare, there are more about than you might think.

 

But lets put this aside.

 

In my opinion it would be good for the game to have another type of blade weapon, that is bigger than a knife. Like a sword or Machete or a Saber. Out of all these a Machete is probarbly the best choice.

 

So Kajin you finally convinced me. :-D

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