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Fanny packs are useless (?)

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Posted (edited)

Wearing a fanny pack and filling it with items will make you more encumbered than not wearing one at all and just keeping said items in your main inventory.

Please give it a little more weight reduction so at least it's not detrimental to wear one.

Edited by crossed

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I'll have to test if this is the case.
Personally, I've been using the fanny pack as a first aid kit and for maps/pen/eraser, which are all very light.
Maybe try with smaller objects that's don't weigh so much? I think the fanny pack is more of an organisational bag, rather than a weight reduction bag, although it does confirm in it's config that it should reduce weight slightly, so you've maybe spotted a bug.

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It does reduce weight a little bit but the fanny pack itself has 0.3 weight when you wear it.

 

For example a plank has a weight of 3 if you carry it in your main inventory.

If you carry it in a fanny pack, the combined weight of the fanny pack and the reduced weight of the plank will be 3.09. 

 

It doesn't matter if you put lighter items into it, wearing a fanny pack will always mean extra weight.

 

It's not much, but it makes them a "maybe I'll use it I guess.." item instead of a "hell yeah" find that an extra bag should be imo.

 

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I'd personally make fanny packs add hotbar slots but only allow items that are 0.5 weight and under. This would allow equipping to your hotbar some commonly used items that currently require you to go in to inventory, potentially scroll to it, right click it to use. Things like medications would benefit a lot from having a quick use hotbar slot. Plenty of other items would be handy to have a quick use key and this is a perfect piece of equipment to accomplish just that. Two hotbar slots that each allow an item stack, with a total weight limit so the stack size of an item can't get absurd.

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2 hours ago, Pandorea said:

image.png

 

Above: plank in inventory with only Fanny pack equipped: char carries 3.3; Below: Plank inside Fanny pack, weight reduced to 3.09..

 

What amI missing?

But in the first case there's no point wearing the empty fanny pack (that's the extra 0.3 weight). You're better off never picking up a fanny pack and just keeping the plank in your main inventory. (of course the plank was just an example, it can be anything you want to carry around in your game)

 

At least as far as weight goes. You can use it to keep your inventory more organized as haze1434 pointed out.

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On 8/22/2020 at 3:51 PM, Jangles said:

I'd personally make fanny packs add hotbar slots but only allow items that are 0.5 weight and under. This would allow equipping to your hotbar some commonly used items that currently require you to go in to inventory

 

That's a really nice idea.
It'd make the fanny pack essentially a 'belt', but maybe it could the 'ultra in belts', in that it could hold a much bigger range of items and have more slots.

Given that, though, I'd make it pretty rare to find.

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2 hours ago, crossed said:

But in the first case there's no point wearing the empty fanny pack (that's the extra 0.3 weight). You're better off never picking up a fanny pack and just keeping the plank in your main inventory. (of course the plank was just an example, it can be anything you want to carry around in your game)

 

At least as far as weight goes. You can use it to keep your inventory more organized as haze1434 pointed out.

 

..The same goes for all other bags and even weapon belt,  no? 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Pandorea said:

 

..The same goes for all other bags and even weapon belt,  no? 

Not when you calculate with their full capacity :)

 

(I'm gonna use kg here just to make it a little less confusing)

 

For example a schoolbag has a capacity of 19kg. When it's full the stuff inside will weight 7.6kg (+ the bag itself is 0.3kg)
So it's weight reduction makes 19 - 7.6 = 11.4kg "disappear". 
So the case of the schoolbag you add 0.3kg to your load (the bag itself) that can reduce your load with 11.4kg, which is well worth it.

 

The fanny pack has a capacity of 3kg.
When it's full the stuff inside will weight 2.79kg (+the bag 0.3kg) 
So it's weight reduction makes 3 - 2.79 = 0.21kg "disappear", which is less than the weight of the fanny pack itself.
In the case of the fanny pack you add 0.3kg to your load that can reduce it with 0.21kg, which doesn't make much sense since you end up with 0.09 more than with what you started with.

 

So again, it's never worth using them for their weight reduction or extra inventory space..

 

I didn't check the belts, but they add quickslots so they're useful regardless of their weight reduction.

Sorry, english is not my first language (in case it wasn't clear :D), not sure how to explain it better. In any case, it's not that important.

Edited by crossed

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On 8/24/2020 at 5:17 AM, Pandorea said:

image.png

 

Above: plank in inventory with only Fanny pack equipped: char carries 3.3; Below: Plank inside Fanny pack, weight reduced to 3.09..

 

What amI missing?

The point is that if you do not wear the fanny pack at all and just keep the plank in your inventory then your total weight is less overall. As you show, the plank in inventory with pack equipped is 3.3, then with plank in pack its 3.09, however should you remove the pack, place it on the ground, and light it on fire (optional) then the plank by itself would have your total weight be 3. This makes the most weight efficient option being to not wear the fanny pack at all and instead set it on fire (totally optional).

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On the other hand, if you don’t intentionally max it out with a plank, you still see an 8% reduction and gain more storage. There is nothing in the game that says the bag must reduce more weight than itself when fully loaded, after all.

 

Its not as generous as 57% but then again, it’s a fanny pack. 
 

To me, it sounds like fanny packs need a small buff and school bags need to be debuffed somewhat. But I’ll double check because it’s early and I’ve just woken up.

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3 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

On the other hand, if you don’t intentionally max it out with a plank, you still see an 8% reduction and gain more storage. There is nothing in the game that says the bag must reduce more weight than itself when fully loaded, after all.

I might be misunderstanding what you're saying, but you do *not* gain more storage from wearing one.

If we ever get the inventory overhaul that was teased a while ago and extra pockets and bags will actually increase your inventory size then I'm sure the fanny pack will be much more useful, but right now bags only reduce weight, and if you end up with more weight by wearing one that they have no point.

 

(The schoolbag was just a counter example off the top of my head, fanny packs don't have to be that good of course)

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I have 10 apples weighing 0.2 for a total of 2.0

I have a Fanny Pack sitting in my inventory, not equipped. It weighs 1 pound.

I equip the Fanny Pack. Now it only weighs 0.3 pounds.

I put my apples in my Fanny Pack. It now weighs 2.16.

 

I take off my Fanny Pack. The combined total is now 3 weight.

 

I take the apples out of my Fanny Pack. I have 2.0 apples and 0.3 of Fanny Pack. A dfifference of 0.14, in the fanny pack's favour. 

 

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Now I have a plank. It weighs 3. With my fannypack, that means I have 4 weight just sitting in my inventory.

 

I put my Fanny Pack on. Once again, it weighs 0.3. 

 

I put my plank in the Fanny Pack. It now weighs 3.09.

You'll notice that is not the 3.3 it should be.

 

So no, the Fanny Pack doesn't really pay for itself, but that being a problem depends on the assumptions you make about it: is it supposed to? You still get the advantage of an extra bag for a loss of ~0.21 weight. It can still hold hilariously large sums of items, like apples even a plank.

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Ok, finally at least it looks like we kind of have an understanding :D Don't take this like I'm trying to argue, more like my final thoughts on the matter.

 

1 hour ago, EnigmaGrey said:

You still get the advantage of an extra bag for a loss of ~0.21 weight. It can still hold hilariously large sums of items, like apples even a plank.

But that extra bag doesn't give any advantages at all other than removing said items (the plank or apples) from your main inventory and keep them in a separate inventory tab to keep things more organized.

 

So it's just an organizational bag at the cost of a little extra weight, which is fine, all I was asking - in the original post - is to remove the small weight "penalty", because it makes their usefulness kinda questionable instead of just being a "no reason not to use" item (that an extra bag should be IMO.)

 

...

 

......

 

.........buuuut they do weight the same as a schoolbag when you're wearing them, so if you could just lower their weight to say... half of what it is now, it would all be fixed ;D

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Overall, I’d just reduce its weight. It should be 0.3 instead of 1 and maybe have a max capacity of 2 to avoid larger objects being put in it. Then it’s under 0.1 when worn and you get the benefit of additional storage with a small reduction.

 

That’d be a little more consistent with reality.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Now I have a plank. It weighs 3. With my fannypack, that means I have 4 weight just sitting in my inventory.

 

I put my Fanny Pack on. Once again, it weighs 0.3. 

 

I put my plank in the Fanny Pack. It now weighs 3.09.

You'll notice that is not the 3.3 it should be.

 

So no, the Fanny Pack doesn't really pay for itself, but that being a problem depends on the assumptions you make about it: is it supposed to? You still get the advantage of an extra bag for a loss of ~0.21 weight. It can still hold hilariously large sums of items, like apples even a plank.

Yes... yes it is supposed to pay for itself. That's the point being made. If an equippable container does not pay for itself while being equipped then its not worth equipping. Inventory is 100% weight based. Packs as they are mitigate the weight gain, they serve no other function. Therefor if a container can't pay for itself its failed at its only function. Forget all other details and look at the raw numbers and how they effect the game. To optimize your carrying capacity, all that matters is reducing total weight. No matter what you put in a fanny pack, it will never reduce your total weight. If it will never reduce your total weight then what benefit does it have?

 

It functionally does reduce weight of items, this is true. However, just because something does what its supposed to does not mean it has value. As it is now there is no reason to wear it. It is detrimental to your character.

Edited by Jangles

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Organization and appearance are not functions?

 

Like I said, it depends on the assumptions you make. If you approach everything with the intent of min-naxing, then you’re going to have a bad time.

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Posted (edited)

Strong agree re reducing the capacity of them to 2, and reducing their weight.

In testing for my own stuff I found that a realistic-ish-feeling little kit that seemed like it would fit in a fanny pack could be put in a 2 capacity one.
Probably disappointing for people that enjoy min maxing/powergaming though.

Edited by Planet Algol
further explanation.

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3 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Organization and appearance are not functions?

 

Like I said, it depends on the assumptions you make. If you approach everything with the intent of min-naxing, then you’re going to have a bad time.

No those aren't functions

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I might be wrong because I'm running a lot of mods... but if not mistaken, you cannot [MoveTo] the fannypack because ISInventoryPaneContextMenu.lua is as such :

 

    -- Move To
    local moveItems = ISInventoryPane.getActualItems(items)
    if #moveItems > 0 and playerObj:getJoypadBind() ~= -1 then
        local subMenu = nil
        local moveTo0 = ISInventoryPaneContextMenu.canUnpack(moveItems, player)
        local moveTo1 = ISInventoryPaneContextMenu.canMoveTo(moveItems, playerObj:getClothingItem_Back(), player)
        local moveTo2 = ISInventoryPaneContextMenu.canMoveTo(moveItems, playerObj:getPrimaryHandItem(), player)
        local moveTo3 = ISInventoryPaneContextMenu.canMoveTo(moveItems, playerObj:getSecondaryHandItem(), player)
        local moveTo4 = ISInventoryPaneContextMenu.canMoveTo(moveItems, ISInventoryPage.floorContainer[player+1], player)

 

Can we add FannyPacks to the list of [MoveTo-able] destinations on the inventory side tab thingy ?

By [Move-To-able] I mean when you click on an item and you can choose what bag, hand, or floor to move it to... without it necessarily having the "Focus" on the inventory screen...

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So I spent about 45 mintues trying to find a fanny pack but I couldn't find one (found 2 big hiking bags).

 

Has it been tested to see if you get a net bonus in weight reduction with the organization perk? If so, that would be reason alone to leave it as is, for characters who take that trait.

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