Sort Zombie Attention Spans out! [Priority]

[bumblemore]

The suggestion keeps coming up: Make PZ Harder.

 

Actually, I disagree with the statement as it is. The only thing that needs to be done is to get zombies with a larger attention span. At the moment, their attention span is ridiculously bad, it's a joke. I go up to the window, a zombie approaches, I leave the window and it returns to it's horde!

 

That's not the worst of it! I get a horde chasing me, following me down the road. I enter one house and close the door, and I wait. And I wait, and I wait... I go outside to see most of them gone or standing around.

 

Zombies don't do this! I'm sorry, I know you devs have a lot on your mind, but I feel like this is a priority. Might I just add that I've tried the zombies on normal and long memory, but there is no difference, they both ignore me once I enter a house regardless.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

J.H.

[bumblemore]

Sorry for being a whiney-pants, but I feel like this is an issue that's been lingering for far too long. The zombies in the tech demo have a better attention span than the current ones.

[MrDeliberto]

Good in my opinion zombies must be stupid even, but in the sandbox you can increase the memory of them as you wish

 

by:google translator

[King jjwpenguin]

The suggestion keeps coming up: Make PZ Harder.

 

Actually, I disagree with the statement as it is. The only thing that needs to be done is to get zombies with a larger attention span. At the moment, their attention span is ridiculously bad, it's a joke. I go up to the window, a zombie approaches, I leave the window and it returns to it's horde!

 

That's not the worst of it! I get a horde chasing me, following me down the road. I enter one house and close the door, and I wait. And I wait, and I wait... I go outside to see most of them gone or standing around.

 

Zombies don't do this! I'm sorry, I know you devs have a lot on your mind, but I feel like this is a priority. Might I just add that I've tried the zombies on normal and long memory, but there is no difference, they both ignore me once I enter a house regardless.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

J.H.

I agree but i am not complaining to much since as deliberto said there is sandbox.

[bumblemore]

Yes, I agree they should be stupid but as quoted:

 

 

Might I just add that I've tried the zombies on normal and long memory, but there is no difference, they both ignore me once I enter a house regardless.

 

Sandbox settings don't make any difference, thanks for the contribution to the thread though.

[King jjwpenguin]

Yes, I agree they should be stupid but as quoted:

 

 

Might I just add that I've tried the zombies on normal and long memory, but there is no difference, they both ignore me once I enter a house regardless.

 

Sandbox settings don't make any difference, thanks for the contribution to the thread though.

They do need to be fixed but they are not entirely as broken as stated. They are decently reactive but its still easy to lose them.

[EnigmaGrey]

Huh? I enter a house and the bastards come through the house to get me.

Tell me your secrets.

[Svarog]

Huh? I enter a house and the bastards come through the house to get me.

Tell me your secrets.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. More often than not, they don't. They just stop moving or go back to their 'idle wandering' state.

If you piss off a horde then sure, they will follow you, because single zombie and a horde seem to have completely different AI controlling their actions.

Every time this topic comes up I think back to Season 2 of TWD where zombies heard a helicopter and followed it, and when the sound stopped they just kept walking in that direction, forever or until they get something new to follow. In PZ they all eventually stop (just get out of their line of sight), instead of, you know, keep moving in the direction you went, eventually getting to your base and smashing it.

Also, I'll agree that sandbox options make little to no visible difference in their behavior. And some options are outright broken like zombies not being able to open doors even if that option was selected (Yes, I reported it)

I get that zombies are supposed to be slow, weak and stupid but I've never seen a single lore where they give up as easily as in PZ.

[EnigmaGrey]

If you mean you out-run them to the point they despawn and no longer exist on the map (then when you return, they simply respawn standing in one place), then yes: that's a problem that can't be solved for the moment by increasing their memory.

However, if zombies acted how you describe in the game, they'd eventually walk to the end of the map and be gone. That wouldn't be very fun, either.

[Svarog]

However, if zombies acted how you describe in the game, they'd eventually walk to the end of the map and be gone. That wouldn't be very fun, either.

That issue could be solved with some smart use of meta sound events (as opposed to completely random, as it is atm), but even then, hordes tend to get stuck on treelines so they'd stop long before they'd reach any edge of the map.

Also, what I've gotten from your post is that metagame is non-existant bullshit, I was led to believe that there is some small level stuff going on in unrendered areas but considering what you said if it's out of sight it's also out of mind and processing. Can't aggroed zombies just exist a while longer in the CPU after the GPU is done with them? Hordes are not particularly CPU intensive as it takes well over 100 on-screen zeds for my FPS to start dropping from 60 and I don't even have a proper GPU. It would fix a lot if agrroed zombies din't instantly disappear as soon as they go out of rendering distance. Unless we have to wait for until NPCs happen to see that legendary metagame stuff, then it's my mistake for assuming it was happening in some low level form now.

I don't understand why isn't there at least an option to increase the number of streamed cells for those who's PCs don't happen to be a rotten potato, singleplayer experience would benefit from that a lot and it's not really required in MP because zombies are not a threat over there. The game is in Early Access, there should be more experimentation happening between Builds until a good enough solution is found.

[Fuzzy Wolfy]

Doors are the best way to lose them. I agree with that, but windows - sorry, I've had zeds break through my windows by CHANCE due to their weird wandering paths... Let alone if they see me. Windows stand no chance against one, let alone several zeds. Doors, however, I've rarely ever seen get broken down. They last far longer than the Zombies' memory, which I'm admit, is a bit disappointing.

I've also had zombies follow me for ridiculous lengths... And I mean, I'm traveling across the city - partially running, partially not, but the area was cleared, and the bastards still manage to keep up until I literally need to juke them by looping them through some trees or through a house.

I do agree that they should be more persistent, though. Not insanely good at tracking you down, but at the very least stubborn enough to reach your last known location.

[EnigmaGrey]

Also, what I've gotten from your post is that metagame is non-existant bullshit . . .

Considering the whole idea is that it's meant to act in concert with a AI director and NPCs that do not yet exist in the public build of the game, I do not know how you could have drawn the conclusions you have.

Can't aggroed zombies just exist a while longer in the CPU after the GPU is done with them?

Sort of? That's a part I'm fuzzy on myself. Once the active map goes away, they're added to a virtual group, no longer being individual zombie.

I don't understand why isn't there at least an option to increase the number of streamed cells for those who's PCs don't happen to be a rotten potato, singleplayer experience would benefit from that a lot and it's not really required in MP because zombies are not a threat over there. The game is in Early Access, there should be more experimentation happening between Builds until a good enough solution is found.

I guess there sort of is: Start up a server instance and use the word localhost to connect to it instead of an ip. You'll see differences in how zombies follow the player, as well as much higher resource usage by the server. As far as I know, we're heading towards an improved version of this for single player in build 32.

[bumblemore]

I don't know what game you're playing, Enigma, but in the current build of PZ zombies:

 

-Give up following you if you leave their line of sight/go into a house.

-Do not open doors when that setting is enabled in sandbox.

 

I agree that they are more dangerous than they used to be, but as Svarog said, I've never seen any lore where zombies just give up like they do in PZ.

 

Conclusion: Zombies had better navigation in the tech demo.

[EnigmaGrey]

I don't know what game you're playing, Enigma, but in the current build of PZ zombies:

The same game I've played since 2011, Bumble.

Conclusion: Zombies had better navigation in the tech demo.

Not much of one. The map was tiny and entirely in RAM, meaning no virtualization or streaming of zombies was necessary. That's outright impossible now.

[bumblemore]

 

I don't know what game you're playing, Enigma, but in the current build of PZ zombies:

The same game I've played since 2011, Bumble.

Conclusion: Zombies had better navigation in the tech demo.

Not much of one. The map was tiny and entirely in RAM, meaning no virtualization or streaming of zombies was necessary. That's outright impossible now.

 

I'm not talking about the offmap zombies, or the ones in the next town. I'm talking about the ones that are behind the door I just closed that have suddenly forgotten that they were chasing me a moment ago.

And yeah, I'm also a 2011 player, which is why I brought up the tech demo.

[Svarog]

Not much of one. The map was tiny and entirely in RAM, meaning no virtualization or streaming of zombies was necessary. That's outright impossible now.

 

Kinda makes me want to throw the big map out the window and have a small map that can be streamed at all times, the big map is currently useless in SP as it is, sure, it's nice to have a lot of space but what's the point if it's there for the sake of it being there?

I'd love to have a smaller map if it meant more challenge. I know, there is the Challenge mode but that is not what I mean. A small map, not unlike the one from the 1.5.0d for sandbox would be nice.

I guess the mall challenge will sort of be that but I'd rather see more options for sandbox. I wouldn't even mind having an option to let zombies actively sense and hunt the player in zombie lore settings. Challenges are nice, for 15 minutes after which they get old (My opinion, your mileage may vary) because of the preset rules and truly ridiculous restrictions. Why can't we craft our own challenge in sandbox with a nice selection of both big and small maps and plenthora of various options and instead have to go fiddle with .lua is beyond me. Sandbox could easily replace Challenge mode if there were options there to do it, people could share presets if someone had a nice challenge idea. But no, they are two separate modes, for no real reason.

I'll stfu now since I'm starting to go on another "PZ is too easy rant" and out of topic as a bonus.

[Kirrus]

 

Not much of one. The map was tiny and entirely in RAM, meaning no virtualization or streaming of zombies was necessary. That's outright impossible now.

 

Kinda makes me want to throw the big map out the window and have a small map that can be streamed at all times, the big map is currently useless in SP as it is, sure, it's nice to have a lot of space but what's the point if it's there for the sake of it being there?

-snip-

 

They tried streaming smaller map cells.It really didn't work at all well.

 

Suffice to say, the devs are not stupid, and are actively working on the game still.

[Fuji]

What might be feasible would be to simulate zombies as abstracted voxels at lower definitions as they get further away, so large scale horde movements which split off into smaller and smaller individual groups until they devolve into single zombies meandering across your screen.

Exact zombie placement would be lost over large distances, but at least they would move about and still have agendas offscreen.

But as for the onscreen zombies, I've never had problems with them giving up on sieges. I have problems where the won't stop! I can just walk outside and backstab all the zombies more interested in licking windows than me.

[bumblemore]

I could printscreen/record it happening to me if that'd help? Because I literally tested them again after I made the post, roughly around six times to make sure I wasn't mislead. In two of the cases I got them to follow me through the window, all the other times they failed, and that was on the first floor.

 

9/10 They give up unless I actively try to get them inside the house, maybe it's a bug only I'm experiencing? But I definitely don't have problems getting them giving up on sieges, I have problems getting them to siege me in the first place (which they never do).

[Fuzzy Wolfy]

Doors outlast them be sheer hitpoint value and due to it cutting off vision. If a zombie cant see or hear you, they slowly lose interest and eventually stop.

Windows are weaker and provide vision, meaning they're memory is constantly being refreshed if you are within their sights -and- they outlast the window's health by default.

[bumblemore]

Even though I disagree with ^^ as in films like Night of the living dead, the zombies don't give up because they can't see you, lol. Especially not straight away.

 

I've been testing the open beta of build 32 and the problem seems to be fixed, as the zombies followed me into a house and were even knocking on the door that they last saw me go through, I'm very pleased to say that I'll continue playing this build instead of the current one.

[Geras]

-snip-

I've been testing the open beta of build 32 and the problem seems to be fixed -snip-

 

I'm afraid it has not been fixed entirely. I just wanted to gather a huge horde (+100) by running around smaller groups and shouting. Those zombies who actually SAW me running, followed me. Those who only HEARD me soon after decided that the 'cluster' sound of another zombie group stationed nearby is more interesting than a running breakfast. It is now (as it was before) impossible to gather a huge amount of zeds in one place because they lose their interest in the source of sound.

 

Another example:

 

I stood a 1366x760 screen far away from a +20 group. I kept them almost on the edge of my screen because that's the rough shout sound diameter. A few zombies decided to check the source and made a few steps in my direction by after an instant they turn around and go back to their group because of the 'cluster' sound they make. It should not be like that. 'Cluster' sound priority should be lower than any other sound a zombie can hear with guns and what not being on top and shouting being soon after.

 

All of that on 'Long' zombie memory setting.

[bumblemore]

Urgh, that's awful news. I was only playing for a few minutes to test it out so I didn't get to see a lot. I don't know if we're the minority here struggling with this problem, but it needs to be fixed now. I don't want to have to make another one of these threads in three months time because nobody picked up on it this time.

 

And it really doesn't help that people keep coming along and opposing the threads, just for the sake of doing so. If somebody isn't struggling with our problem or don't see functionless zombies as a problem, we don't need their input!

 

I'll add you, Geras & Svarog. We can bring this up again if it gets ignored (again).

[Kirrus]

1. Remember to be lovely.

2. File a bug.

[bumblemore]

It's been filed already by a few people as it's been brought up many times.

 

However, I can file it again. And I was being polite as possible.