Zombie spawning might need some work

[willow512]

But i'm still very maddened by how zombies are currently working. I played in sandbox mode with low zombie density. After 3 days, there are about 500+ zombies within an ingame 1/4 mile radius of my base and nearby storage house. This lead to my death because this new zombie walking seems a little broken atm. Seems like they just walk at your position instead of randomly and the very few map sounds don't really lead them away anymore. I mean I miss the big group of a hoard all grouped together not really moving since no food was to be found, where you could at least use strategy and sound to lead them out of your way. Currently these 500+ zombies are spread out and there is just no possible way to kill them all, lead them away from my base, or anything else. Very maddening. I appreciate all the work you do but can you explain why I have 500+ zombies in such a cluster fook in a low zombie density setting? Would very much like to know if this is a bug in settings, AI, pathfinding, etc. 

I kinda agree with this, it seems that wherever you are zombies just begin to eventually spawn. I could be wrong but the meta game events seem spread around the player, which causes any meta game event to draw zombies into your area. 

 

If you go to the western farm, and stay there minding your own business, farming crops and building walls, then the odds of a large horde arriving should be minimal. It could have course happen. But it should be rare. Right now it seems that wherever you settle, a big horde will arrive on your doorstep in a few days.

 

The spawning is also a little off. I even had a zombie spawn inside my fence once, I was gardning with my back turned to a blind fence that surrounded a very small and uncluttered area, then suddenly a zombie appeared behind me. Even Ezio Auditore could not have repeated that feat. Great way to keep me on my toes. But not as realistic as I'd hope. If a zombie is inside my walls, I expect the barrier to be broken.

Ok so I posted this to the forum, went to bed in the northern farm, not a zombie in sight. The next morning I wake up, save, reload, brush my teeth, look out over my new porch and shat my pants.

 

I don't understand why they're there or have any idea on how to get rid of them. I've heard no gunshots or other meta game events, and even if I had, I'd figure I'd be out of earshot. Maybe 2 or three would show up but that would be it. The area was deserted, I walked around to be sure.

 

I arrived at the farm two days before the screenshot. I wanted to build a fortress here and go for a long term self sufficiency game staying away from the town and just laying low, trying to finally get some seeds to grow. The day before I chopped some wood and broke the door to the hen house because there was one of those deadheads hiding in there. I also planted some seeds and watered them.

 

I'm posting this in bugs, to hopefully raise this functionality to bug status, because I very much doubt that just planting 100 zombies in formation in the players backyard is intended. I'm sure there are better ways of doing it. If it were the first time I'd see this I'd consider it a fluke, but it isn't, this happens a lot (See quoted post). And to be honest, it ruined this game for me. I could roll with the punches and go someplace else. But I keep doing that, the game before this one the same thing happened, I wanted to try my hands at base building. But I'm pretty sure that if I go someplace else and start building in just a few days I'll find a horde parked outside in a similar fashion.

 

 

[willow512]

When you get back into that chunk, it de-virtualises the zombie number and loads the saved ammount of zombies.

The bug is expected to be vortual zombies moving faster than they should, thus teleporting into your chunk.

I can't wrap my mind around the idea that zombies are not actually added to the map. I believe I'm seeing too many of them in ALL areas. If they move around one area would become less crowded as another area fills up, but I'm not seeing that.

 

I'm on day 24 of a nomad game now. The entire north side of town is covered in zombies. I have a beast of a PC, and it handles framerates without a hitch everywhere else, but whenever I go to those areas the CPU just goes wild tracking all the zombies and that brings fps down with it. 

[EnigmaGrey]

I'm pretty sure the current in-game maximum of zombies is something on the order of 10,000 -- with a maximum of 1000 per horde.

If, say, you're somewhere where you've managed to attract the mythical any-time limit of 1,000 zombies, but only a hundred or so are spawned into view at any one time, it would give the impression that there are infinite fields of zombies?

Depending on how big of a bite of the world that the meta-game works on, you could even see all 10,000 within and surrounding the city in a pretty short period of time, I suspect . . .

But they're working on some debugging tools to help visualize what/if there's a problem.

[Luke159]

This is how I understand it:

They are not bound to item distribution.

Zombies aren't really spawned per se. I think the only time zombies "spawn" into existence is when alarms or other meta-game-events occur. Even then they only spawn in the nearesr high-density area of the overlay map that determines the zombie population and density.

Once a chunk of the map is loaded, it checks how many zombies to load for that chunk.

Leaving this chunk leaves a virtual note with the number of zombies in that area.

When you get back into that chunk, it de-virtualises the zombie number and loads the saved ammount of zombies.

The bug is expected to be vortual zombies moving faster than they should, thus teleporting into your chunk.

Your try to help is appreciated but chances are that most things you can think of were already considered or are just wrong

 

 

This was why I said that disabling zombie loot coding might fix the horde problem.

 

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/1774-items-rarity/?p=26167

 

Hellow,

 

Erm, the PZ loot system already works with value/random stuff, check media/lua/Items/SuburbDistribution.lua

 

For each room/container type we define the items that can spanw in it, with a value to randomize it.

 

We also add a zombie density value to the random number, the more zombie density, the higher chance you'll have to find some loots.

 

But we'll never ever respawn stuff after each night, we're making a realistic game, not a DayZ game, and in real life, item don't respawn

[EnigmaGrey]

They're . . . different systems?

Zombie-loot is controlled in the same distribution file that controls normal container loot, such as kitchen cabinets. Zombies only spawn loot on death (when they become a body on the ground). They're not connected to the system that manages zombies?

[nasKo]

And again, thanks for trying but it's wasted time.

I appreciate people are trying to help, but if you could dispense with the backseat coding though it would be much appreciated. unless you're the coder of a sandbox game more complex than ours, please give me benefit of the doubt that if there's some solution to getting the zombie to behave perhaps someone fully aware of the entire codebase and a decade in the industry is likely to have considered similar to any of your solutions in about 2 years of changes, rewrites and re-imaginings, and may know reasons why a 'surely its as simple as' is not going to work.

 

Comments that 'computers are so fast nowadays' are pretty useless when we're trying to cling onto low spec customers as much as we can. And if you think the game isn't doing a scary amount of processing already (in java, no less) that we aren't looking for every conceivable way to speed up the game, not add extra strain to it.

 

Problems with zombies are due to bugs. It's not some coding or design issue. The system in there should work perfectly, and if it doesn't then it's a line of code somewhere misbehaving.

[Luke159]

I have worked on mods in the past and one of them was a sandbox game that became twice the size of the original and was very unstable due to the devs deciding not to spend any time fixing it. The game was Age Of Pirates 2 City Of Abandoned Ships and like so many mods a lot was been put in without public testing and thus bugs became a huge problem. In the end I stripped the mod back to the core on my own and fixed it so it was far more stable and had less bugs. There are a lot of very talented people out there and I have had the pleasure of working with some of them and speaking with many others who had/or still do work on the older game Pirates Of The Caribbean (not movie based game original name was meant to be Sea Dogs 2).

 

Anyway if you do not wish to have my help then that's ok, I was simply throwing out possible ways to fix the problem or at least reduce it. If I had the time to really look into this I would do it myself, but sadly I do not have the time needed to fully understand how this game is coded.

[EnigmaGrey]

Anyway if you do not wish to have my help then that's ok, I was simply throwing out possible ways to fix the problem or at least reduce it. If I had the time to really look into this I would do it myself, but sadly I do not have the time needed to fully understand how this game is coded.

In this one case, there's nothing to do as modders, unless you really want to get into their Java and Lua-centric metagame code to understand the process.

The game is highly moddable. Take a look at the modding section, pick something you'd like to do, and give it a shot.

[Rathlord]

I think what he's referring to is Lemmy having said in the past that more zombies spawn in areas with more loot. That's only true inasmuch as they coded the high pop areas to have more; it's not actually tied to the loot in the code in any way, it's just that they made the areas that have high loot also have high zombie count. I hope that clarifies the issue.

[Luke159]

 

Anyway if you do not wish to have my help then that's ok, I was simply throwing out possible ways to fix the problem or at least reduce it. If I had the time to really look into this I would do it myself, but sadly I do not have the time needed to fully understand how this game is coded.

In this one case, there's nothing to do as modders, unless you really want to get into their Java and Lua-centric metagame code to understand the process.

The game is highly moddable. Take a look at the modding section, pick something you'd like to do, and give it a shot.

 

 

Thank you I might do that one day, i'll wait for the next beta patch to be released first though because it looks to already have many fixes included and i'm sure it will have more before the patch is released for public testing.

 

I think what he's referring to is Lemmy having said in the past that more zombies spawn in areas with more loot. That's only true inasmuch as they coded the high pop areas to have more; it's not actually tied to the loot in the code in any way, it's just that they made the areas that have high loot also have high zombie count. I hope that clarifies the issue.

 

Ah that would explain it then. I just read what RobertJohnson said wrong? anyway thanks for the clarification.

[Shivster]

I'm pretty sure the current in-game maximum of zombies is something on the order of 10,000 -- with a maximum of 1000 per horde.

If, say, you're somewhere where you've managed to attract the mythical any-time limit of 1,000 zombies, but only a hundred or so are spawned into view at any one time, it would give the impression that there are infinite fields of zombies?

Depending on how big of a bite of the world that the meta-game works on, you could even see all 10,000 within and surrounding the city in a pretty short period of time, I suspect . . .

But they're working on some debugging tools to help visualize what/if there's a problem.

 

 

I am currently doing a cheat run with a unlimited ammo shotgun  Currently at 6,789 zombies right now.  Ever since someone said a set number spawned i have been trying to kill every zombie who crosses my path. So far it has not seemed to cut down on the number of zombies i encounter. But in areas where i have killed a few thousand i lag alot

[marine1217]

I must say does anyone ever look at or fallow the developers blogs or video posts? They have went sometimes days without sleep sitting at a computer working on coding all day? We as a player base get updates sometimes weekly, or our modders put out updates for their works. With this in alpha stage I would rather wait for the core of our game to be coded than our place holders that will in the end be useless.

[Shivster]

I must say does anyone ever look at or fallow the developers blogs or video posts? They have went sometimes days without sleep sitting at a computer working on coding all day? We as a player base get updates sometimes weekly, or our modders put out updates for their works. With this in alpha stage I would rather wait for the core of our game to be coded than our place holders that will in the end be useless.

 

 I agree, Now im just having fun with the system as is im well over 10k zombies now and the streets are still filed with zeds. I cant even walk near some places i will just lag out from the thousands of dead zombies.  Right now im just finding packs and standing there shooting untell no more zombies come. I have went though sooo many shotguns.I just want to see how many zombies are in game now. and i have to find out soon they are fixing my unlimited ammo bug

[drNovikov]

Hi, guys. I haven't been playing since those huge square hordes started harrasing my survivor. Any updates?

[RoboMat]

Hi, guys. I haven't been playing since those huge square hordes started harrasing my survivor. Any updates?

The sandbox variables for zombie spawning are fixed. Nothing besides that.

[EnigmaGrey]

 

I must say does anyone ever look at or fallow the developers blogs or video posts? They have went sometimes days without sleep sitting at a computer working on coding all day? We as a player base get updates sometimes weekly, or our modders put out updates for their works. With this in alpha stage I would rather wait for the core of our game to be coded than our place holders that will in the end be useless.

 

 I agree, Now im just having fun with the system as is im well over 10k zombies now and the streets are still filed with zeds. I cant even walk near some places i will just lag out from the thousands of dead zombies.  Right now im just finding packs and standing there shooting untell no more zombies come. I have went though sooo many shotguns.I just want to see how many zombies are in game now. and i have to find out soon they are fixing my unlimited ammo bug

 

There's a save editor around the forum that lets you remove dead bodies.

Might want to give it a shot.

[RoboMat]

I must say does anyone ever look at or fallow the developers blogs or video posts? They have went sometimes days without sleep sitting at a computer working on coding all day? We as a player base get updates sometimes weekly, or our modders put out updates for their works. With this in alpha stage I would rather wait for the core of our game to be coded than our place holders that will in the end be useless.

 

 I agree, Now im just having fun with the system as is im well over 10k zombies now and the streets are still filed with zeds. I cant even walk near some places i will just lag out from the thousands of dead zombies.  Right now im just finding packs and standing there shooting untell no more zombies come. I have went though sooo many shotguns.I just want to see how many zombies are in game now. and i have to find out soon they are fixing my unlimited ammo bug

There's a save editor around the forum that lets you remove dead bodies.

Might want to give it a shot.

There is also johndough's "Corpse Mod" which allows you to do it via ingame context menus.

[PombeGeek]

 

Hi, guys. I haven't been playing since those huge square hordes started harrasing my survivor. Any updates?

The sandbox variables for zombie spawning are fixed. Nothing besides that.

 

Does this mean we can finally change the unbalanced horde aggregation in Sandbox until it's fixed in Survival? Haven't played for awhile due to getting frustrated with Zombies magically appearing within a Walled-in section of land with no doors.

[EnigmaGrey]

 

 

Hi, guys. I haven't been playing since those huge square hordes started harrasing my survivor. Any updates?

The sandbox variables for zombie spawning are fixed. Nothing besides that.

 

Does this mean we can finally change the unbalanced horde aggregation in Sandbox until it's fixed in Survival? Haven't played for awhile due to getting frustrated with Zombies magically appearing within a Walled-in section of land with no doors.

 

No, this means you can only set the maximum number of zombies present in the game.

[Asop]

I apologize in advance if this has already been covered but the hordes now are just way too big. In an area with about 30 homes there are thousands of zombies, which is pretty strange. In every direction fifty or so metres there are hordes of hundreds of zombies which makes it very difficult to do anything.

 

The problem isn't that it is too difficult now, it's a matter of realism and simulation for me; there would not be 300 zombies in an area with five houses, or 2000 in an area with 30 houses.

 

I would prefer if any giant hordes like this were much fewer in number and actually left another location with much fewer zeds instead of pulling them out of thin air so zombies are everywhere. Especially since there are random gunshots and helicopters everywhere I go that attract zombies to come from all around to my location.

 

I would like to know if this will be changed in the future? Or at least reduced?

[PlasticandRage]

I read in a couple other threads that horde mechanics are the next thing they're working on.

 

I've actually hit a wall in my current game because of the horde respawning. I'm living in a safehouse that's at the edge of the map, and there's only really 3 ways in or out, without just walking through hundreds of yards of thick forest. Giant hordes have spawned at each of the roads in places that are narrow enough that I can't sneak around them, so after trying to figure out a more round about way to deal with it over the course of the last couple hours I decided to just try to wipe one of them out so I could leave my safehouse again. I just blew through over 100 shotgun shells, and an entire axe that had 100% condition, and didn't even make a dent. I was leading an entire horde around in a big circle in a field, so they were all following, and I was sort of following the end, just blasting away with my shotgun, and almost every time I worked my way back around they'd respawned and replaced the ones I killed. There's not really anything I can do without having the option to kill them. I'm effectively stuck in my safe house at day 34.

[ApolloDiaspora]

All comments of backseat coding and the like aside, and bearing in mind the current horde spawning system is a placeholder, would it be possible to tweak the density of the hordes a bit?

 

I'm not talking about the metagame zombie density or anything like that, I'm talking about the really tightly packed squares of zombies the game loves to plop down here and there. Having the same amount of zombies spread out over a larger(ish) area on screen might make it a bit easier to move between/through hordes when things go pear shaped.

 

No matter how many zombies are on screen, if you can sprint through a clear path in the horde, you're golden

 

Also, I read something about visualisation tools apparantly being in the works. Any kind of ETA on those? Seeing a little debug window showing the density of local metazombie population in real time on a map would not only be useful in a gamey sort of way, it'd be damn interesting to see how the zombie population as a whole fluctuates in real time. I'm imaginging densities being painted out as menacing blobs of colour

 

Hell, a long way down the road, putting some ingame crafting recipe/item in to access this population density map could be an interesting idea - Abstract out the radio chatter you'd have with the hypothetical-safe-zone-fortress and other survivors moving about, in order to check if it really is a good idea to use the shotgun right now

[Rathlord]

Please remember not to use hyperbole when discussing stuff like this. I'm fairly confident 3,000 zombies is more than the game's zombie cap.

Lemmy said that they will be working on horde mechanics soon- that is, after the 3D iso update. As has been said, it is a placeholder and it is a known issue. Further discussion should go in the thread discussing it.

[EnigmaGrey]

I'm not talking about the metagame zombie density or anything like that, I'm talking about the really tightly packed squares of zombies the game loves to plop down here and there. Having the same amount of zombies spread out over a larger(ish) area on screen might make it a bit easier to move between/through hordes when things go pear shaped.

Unless I'm terribly mistaken, you should already be seeing a difference in this in the last beta build. That was part of the hit to performance, trying to spread them out a bit.

[ApolloDiaspora]

Is the 'last beta build' the Steam version with opt-in beta? I've been without my desktop for the last few days, so, I haven't been able to stick my beak into things.

 

Kinda know you have the itch to play PZ when you're doing unspeakable things to a linux live USB in an attempt to get it running...

[Shivster]

Ok RJ and Lemmy i have a video for you to watch that could explain the zombies moving to you "Bug".

Check out this video. Notice that the horde is following him even though they don't see him. Its like they are porting with the one zombie that is following him. So if i have one zombie following me then a horde can attach on him and follow me

http://youtu.be/8j2cC3xc3Qs?t=28m38s

 

Moved from Steam Beta Release thread.