Lol taking ppl hostage will be in the game?

[EnigmaGrey]

Alright, so we just went from a simple option of optional captivity, to something that somehow stimulates multiple possibilities of actions while in captivity. Which is fine.

Dice rolls are now in the chat system -- maybe doing this as a DM-driven scenario would be a better way to go? This way, you're not limited by the developers' thoughts on what you can/can't do.

[deprav]

Alright, so we just went from a simple option of optional captivity, to something that somehow stimulates multiple possibilities of actions while in captivity. Which is fine.

Dice rolls are now in the chat system -- maybe doing this as a DM-driven scenario would be a better way to go? This way, you're not limited by the developers' thoughts on what you can/can't do.

Well, to me it's always been about offering multiple possibilities and outcomes. That's what's awesome about all the features TIS is proposing in PZ. You don't really need to do or use all of the stuff at your disposition, it's all about choices, story telling the way of how you died. That is the true awesomeness of RP games, choices leading to situations offering multiple choices that will lead to other multiple situations ;o

I'm not sure I understand what you implied with the dice roll feature, like escaping could be decided by rolling a dice ? or the dice roll decides if wether you're being taken captive or not ? or decides one of the multiple possibilities your situation offers ?

[Rathlord]

I don't undersand you being "ok" with being insta killed by a griefer, and not being "ok" with being griefed any other way, because the outcome is the exact same thing : your character is over. You're just forcing yourself to watch the griefers grief when you really have no obligation to do so, you can just let go and create another one, since you'll have to do it once the griefers are finished with you anyway.

Your logic on that particular point makes no sense to me, I'm not trying to be rude. I just can't see it.

 

 

 

Here's the difference for ya I see it. We need the gun system in. We need the melee system in. They are required for the game to function. This is something that doesn't add anything that can't be handled as easily with RP and has the additional consequence of making life easier for griefers if handled in the function I'm referring to.

 

There is a clear difference between "limiting the game out of fear of griefers" and just generally practicing smart design and not handing them easy tools.

[Kajin]

Well, I'll try to word it one last time differently again. No one forces you to spectate "your game being played by someone else", nothing keeps you from disconnecting and making another character.

I don't undersand you being "ok" with being insta killed by a griefer, and not being "ok" with being griefed any other way, because the outcome is the exact same thing : your character is over. You're just forcing yourself to watch the griefers grief when you really have no obligation to do so, you can just let go and create another one, since you'll have to do it once the griefers are finished with you anyway.

Your logic on that particular point makes no sense to me, I'm not trying to be rude. I just can't see it.

 

It is not the exact same thing. If I get shot and die, then it's over and done with. I don't have to deal with it anymore and can simply roll up a new character. If I get taken hostage, the game still continues without my input. I have to sit and wait for my captor to be done with me. Maybe they choose to kill me immediately. Maybe they choose to lock me in their safe house basement until I die of starvation. Either way, it's insulting. A deliberate affront to me, personally.

 

If they kill my character and rob the corpse, that's one thing. But to deliberately involve yourself in maintaining the captivity of another human being is several orders of magnitude more disgusting. Sure, I can just get up and walk away from the game. I can find something else to do with my time for the next little while. But that doesn't change the fact that I have been deeply and remarkably insulted because someone else took the time out of their day to make mine that much worse.

[EnigmaGrey]

Not to mention that if they shoot and miss, you've a prime opportunity to bolt/kick their ass . .

Whereas if it's just '"Dude, hold up your hands. You're mine now, please." /Apply rope action to willing captive' it's just . . . that.

And that isn't very thrilling. I don't know. Add a Knot Tying skill to increase the chance that the captive could somehow escape at their leisure?

[deprav]

That's an odd discussion, I can barrely see any logic behind it anymore.

In real life, if you're in a situation in which you're about to be held captive, the kidnapper forces you to put your hands behind your back to tie you up, but you still have the choice to resist and run away at the risk of being killed. But you choose to let yourself being tied with the hope that you'll be fine.
Well it would be the same thing ingame, someone threatens your character with a gun and wants to take you captive for X reason**, you either have the choice to run, fight, or let him capture you with the hope your character won't die (and have something interesting or fun to tell your forum buddies). You're never "willingly captive" (except if it's part of your dangerous plan)

** - asking for a ransom (supplies from his/her group)
- forcing him to lead you somewhere
- forcing him to give you informations
- an "insurance" in a tricky situation
- forcing him to use his/her competence
- saving him, but you don't thrust him at first
- avoiding to kill the guy
- sadism
- cannibalism
- making living bait for Zeds
- and much more...

I don't understand how you can not see the multitude of options that situation offers, which kind of is a classic situation for post-apocalyptic world stories, with people having moral dilemmas on whether it's good or bad to kill someone when the rules are gone.
Ain't that he whole point of the game ? Simulating a post-apocalyptic life and scenarios ? If you eventually die, you're bound to make a new character over and over, don't you want to have different playthroughs and possibilities instead of repeating the same one over and over ?

I get the difference between necessary features like gun & melee systems and lesser feature like this one, but what's the point of offering an RP game that aims for realism if something as classic and obvious as taking hostages is deemed useless ? then the whole point of the game is rendered useless. It could start with "This is how you became a carrot farmer". If only basic features like gun & melee systems were important, they could as well make a simple hack'n'slash or action game with isometric view.

Just like the addictions & meds overhaul coming at some point. What's its point ? it's easily RP-able as well afterall, being an addict and acting like one.
What's the point of being able to paint the walls ? you just paint it blue and that's just ... blue.
What's the point of fishing if you can trap ?
What's the point of playing in general ? ;o

As for Kajin, sorry mate I still don't see why you'd take griefing personnaly and feel insulted if the guys maintain you captive, and you would not feel that way if you just go shot. Griefers are just boring and bored people wasting our time and theirs, picking anyone randomly. You're giving them way too much credit, or you're giving yourself too much credit if you think they're targetting you to make particulary YOUR day worst.
You seem to think that it would exactly end up like DayZ, but the game cores (and audience) are obviously totally different, and we're clearly proposing a different mechanics than the total "player lockdown" DayZ have.
As I already said, griefers on PZ shoot on sight, because trying any sadistic DayZ-like scenario would get them as much chance to get injured or killed than their victims, it's not a shooter based on players' skills.

"I have to sit and wait for my captor to be done with me."

Nop, you really don't. It's pretty easy to tell the difference between someone griefing and someone RPing a scenario. If you're putting up with griefers you really don't have any obligation to continue playing with your character you're just about to lose. Staying would actually please them, whereas disconnecting and making another character would just make them move on to their next victim(s), and grief any way they can until they get banned.

[miked79]

 

I don't undersand you being "ok" with being insta killed by a griefer, and not being "ok" with being griefed any other way, because the outcome is the exact same thing : your character is over. You're just forcing yourself to watch the griefers grief when you really have no obligation to do so, you can just let go and create another one, since you'll have to do it once the griefers are finished with you anyway.

Your logic on that particular point makes no sense to me, I'm not trying to be rude. I just can't see it.

 

 

 

Here's the difference for ya I see it. We need the gun system in. We need the melee system in. They are required for the game to function. This is something that doesn't add anything that can't be handled as easily with RP and has the additional consequence of making life easier for griefers if handled in the function I'm referring to.

 

There is a clear difference between "limiting the game out of fear of griefers" and just generally practicing smart design and not handing them easy tools.

 

I suppose some peoples logic in what makes the RP cut and what doesnt differs from mine. I mean whats the point of having the camp fire have flames, whats the point of making some of the weapons look different. We can just pretend all this stuff is happening.....Reason why its nicer that all these animations and lil trimmings are in the game is to make it more immersive! Its all in the details my friends!! Having someone put there hands up when you catch them off guard would be more immersive to see than just saying...."Ok freeze" Put ur hands up!! ....player 2..then types...\handsup. I mean wheres the immersion in that type of roleplay!

[Kajin]

EDIT

 

I don't care anymore. Just don't care.

[miked79]

EDIT

 

I don't care anymore. Just don't care.

I'm glad that you can just shrug and roll your eyes at someone trying to make you miserable. Really, I am. But I have anger problems.

I have a lot of things that stress me out. I can't sleep at night sometimes because I know that tomorrow is going to be exactly the same as today. I play games to get away from that. To relax, unwind and forget about my problems for a few hours. Some random asshole abusing a game mechanic to get a rise out of me? Sure to them I'm just some guy on the internet. Some ephemeral concept they can't quite wrap their heads around because I'm not physically there. Something to poke and prod to get a response out of. But that doesn't help me. All it does is agitate me and make things worse. And there are a lot of people out there similar to me, who play games because they want to unwind and relax.

 

I play Project Zomboid because I find it fun and it helps me take my mind off of shit. Being taken hostage? Having control of my game taken away from me? That's the opposite of fun.

 

The gameplay scenarios you propose would benefit from these artificial mechanics you want so much can just as easily be done by some guys pointing guns at you when you're vulnerable. There's no need to take away control of my game from me. There's just no need for it.

I hear that it does get frustrating to be griefed. Tho I just must say.... Just for joking purposes... Playing a brutal zombie game where their constantly after your brains and want to eat you... IMO would be the opposite of unstressful and relaxing!   Kidding PZ rules

[deprav]

EDIT

 

I don't care anymore. Just don't care.

Hehe, just as you should !

 

I eventually kinda detected you had some sort of issues when it comes to dealing with those kind of "insignificant" situations/issues. I'm the kind of person than can let that kind of stuff go very easily, hence the hard time getting your perspective on the matter.

Also, I think I just got what grinds my gear about the whole stuff, and fellow forumers, I'm very sorry about what I'm about to write, da sirioos political shiet is 'bout to go down. cuz I'm a very political dude. That following paragraph isn't adressed to any of you particulary, just pointing out what's annoying me in a more general way.

> Being against the implementation of mechanics that could be used by griefers, just because of the fact they could be used by griefers is a very """conservative""" think-alike logic. It's like justifying taking people's privacy and rights away (their freedom), invoking people's basic fear/hate, or hypothetical security threats. This is not, at least for me, a rationnal way to answer the question, it's a judgement based on emotions and hate of the griefers (hate that is in itself logic), which clouds people's judgement, overlooking what there is to lose, and focusing on the very little they have to gain. Because that kind of "preventive feature holding" won't keep griefers away, there are other annoying ways to troll. You can only avoid them by playing on non-open servers (at least for the moment).

And "preventive feature holding" is like giving the end word to the trolls, and that makes me sad.

Also you can considere this : griefers use characters they don't care about, which means they have very low (if not non existant) attribute points, making them almost harmless against a character you actually played and leveled up.

And once again mate, no one suggested to take control away from the player, and if that can reassure you, that is very unlikely to happen since it's something the devs stated they really don't want to do, or to the miniminimum (sleeping, feinting, unconscious), which a DayZ-like hostage mechanic is totally in contradication with.

But animations and minor "hostage-like" actions (hands-up, arms tied behind your back), letting total freedom of movement to the player (minus using a weapon), and even offering exotic situations, isn't in contradiction with the essence of the game imho.

I just hope you can see people don't want those kind of situations just to mess around, but because they offer much more than what they could take.

 

[Viceroy]

I concur with it being things like putting your hands up, that can be applied to NPC's in future as well, and if I restrain you, you should be able to struggle and release your binds given a minute or two. It should just be noticable for the captor. That is all.

 

No control away from you, you can bide your time to escape, you can bolt the moment a gun gets pulled on you, you can run off with your hands tied and cut the rope on a shattered window. You can scream to alert zombies and run for it, giving a distraction. You can present yourself as a non-threat and infiltrate a base.

 

I don't want this to be a mechanic for griefing any more than Kajin does, I however am not blind to the enjoyment you could get from it. And yes I understand that not everyone will be fine with being held captive. That is why you can't be 'led' anywhere that you don't literally control yourself to do. The thing (from my perspective.) is the following:

 

A) Hands up gives you a visual "Don't shoot" signal and disarms you, allowing your inventory to be accessed. (For searching and robbery.) But you can still drop your hands and run for it of try to shank the guy robbing you.

 

B) Being "Restrained." removes the possibility to arm yourself unless you struggle to remove the bounds first, that is noticable by the captor. The captor can then shoot you or try to yell you down from it. But ultimately the choice of how to react lies firmly with you as captive player to cooperate or not. And again, you can run off and sever your bounds in the woods or wherever you managed to escape to.

 

I feel this is not a boring proposition, it allows for more possibilities and roleplay without being able to be actually trapped or locked in a place without escape. Without removing you as player from the equation. If you don't want to be caught, don't put your hands up, run away.

 

Other things that could arise from this is you frantically running away from bandits with zombies on your tail while struggling against your binds. Which would be a pretty cool story if you make it.

 

I just want to make it painfully clear that I am NOT in favour of being cuffed to a radiator and being spoonfed bleach. I am in favour of being able to be restrained (Temporarily) and being searched or robbed.

[lemmy101]

reL Hostage taking mentioned in the mondoid: It's largely for the NPCs giving the ability to capitulate / drop your gun / put hands in the air that player or NPCs may do depending on the circumstance. Someone waving a gun around can actually get people to surrender if the numbers are against them, or they are cowards or whatever.

 

If any of that went into multiplayer it'd basically just be a way of dropping the stuff in your hands and putting them up to show submission / peace, no other mechanisms beyond that. 

[Jatta Pake]

 

If any of that went into multiplayer it'd basically just be a way of dropping the stuff in your hands and putting them up to show submission / peace, no other mechanisms beyond that. 

 

Would a mechanism to search and remove items from other's inventory be included though? I think this remains as the crux of "Rob not Kill" option.  Hands up, stuff in hands dropped, inventory accessible?

[Jamesonline]

I've been taken hostage online by a guy with a gun.

One of my friends died saving me but it was cool.

[deprav]

If any of that went into multiplayer it'd basically just be a way of dropping the stuff in your hands and putting them up to show submission / peace, no other mechanisms beyond that. 

Cool cool cool ! Pretty much exactly what we thought.

Tho a walk animation with your hands behind your back would look less silly than following your captor's group with your hands up during all that captive situation, and I know we can indulge ourselves with fancy animation requests now :3

[EnigmaGrey]

I'm going to take this opportunity to end this discussion now, before things repeat themselves even more.