Sometimes people frustrate me.

[k12314]

So, I've spoken to some people about gender identity. If you are unaware of what that is, it is whenever a man or a woman identifies as the opposite sex, and prefers to be referred to as a she instead of a he/vice versa. Now, I have a friend who identifies as female, and plans on going through hormone therapy and a follow-up full sex change operation. And many people have the nerve to think that she is "insane" or "fucked in the head" just for wanting to be a woman. And many other people share the same sentiment, apparently. Thinking that no matter what, she is a he because there's still a penis in her pants. Frankly, that frustrates me GREATLY. Someone's gender and someone's sex are both two different things. Let me make it simple:

 

Gender: What you identify and see yourself as.

Sex: What your biology shows.

 

So basically, if someone is a male in sex but identifies as female in gender, you should be much more considerate and refer to them as a she, or vice versa.

 

Sorry about the mini-rant, this is something that's gotten under my skin lately.

[PK'EZ-54]

Can see and agree with your rant. But what if someone wants to be called an 'it'? Since there is no gender or sex that would appeal to that. Would that just go for "Yo, get skill and pick one of the two."

[zombo]

Would you expect anything different?  Trans-gender people are still far far away from mainstream acceptance.  The situation for gay people is getting better, you see pride events sponsored by major corporations now, but even still in the minds of most straight people I don't think they are widely accepted, although less and less people will express that opinion openly now.  Most men I think really don't like gay men even if they won't come out and say it.

 

Bisexual women, well they are another story.  They are widely accepted, amongst men they're probably more liked than straight women now.  Hypocritical but that's the way it is.

 

Anyway, I'm not saying you shouldn't voice your opinion, if that's how it sounded.  Just saying that you're going to continue to be frustrated because you will probably not see that change in your lifetime.

[Rathlord]

Sometimes people don't frustrate me. Very, very rarely XD

 

I'm gonna share a story if no one minds (and trust me, you don't mind /moderator magics):

 

I was one of those pigheaded hateful people when I was younger. I tended to make nasty slurs about anyone who was remotely different than me, just for a laugh. Then, after high school, and some time later my best friend came out to me. And I was the one of the last people he told (not that I blame him, after my attitude). In that moment I realized some really important things. First, I was hurt because he was my best friend and he told me last. Second, I was just absolutely devastated to my core that I'd been so venomous that my best friend didn't even want to tell me the truth about himself. Third, I realized that I was an absolute shit and had no right to be disrespecting anyone else. And finally, I realized that my best friend being gay really didn't matter one fucking bit to me. He was still the same person he was the day before, and I didn't like him any less than I had before (in fact, I grew to respect him more for having the balls to tell me and still being my friend at all). So I figured... if it doesn't matter if my best friend is gay, why should it matter to me if anyone else is? Even if you have some kind of religious or moral conflicts with it, it STILL doesn't change who the person is. If you think it's wrong, that's fine- we all disagree. That doesn't mean we should treat them differently.

 

That day was a crucial day in my life, and nothing has been quite the same since. It didn't feel like a big day when it happened, but looking back it's what's really driven me since then to be a better person and treat people solely based on their actions. More than that it's the day that I decided I should devote my life to logic and reasoning. I spend every day hoping that more ignorant people (like I was) can have a situation like this and change the way they think about things. We live in a supposedly enlightened time, but I see people getting more and more backward year by year. So here's hoping we can all move forward and treat people equally no matter who they are or how they identify themselves.

[EnigmaGrey]

Context matters . . .

Finding out that attractive female is really a guy may matter at some point in an intimate relationship, whereas calling someone by their identified gender rather than by their sex in normal conversation can be seen as a polite gesture. *Shrug*

I'm not going to touch on whether someone seeing their gender as different from their sex is a sign of mental illness or flaw, though. That one is just a bit too deep for me . . .

[k12314]

Context matters . . .

Finding out that attractive female is really a guy may matter at some point in an intimate relationship, whereas calling someone by their identified gender rather than by their sex in normal conversation can be seen as a polite gesture. *Shrug*

I'm not going to touch on whether someone seeing their gender as different from their sex is a sign of mental illness or flaw, though. That one is just a bit too deep for me . . .

 

Well, gender IS different from sex, like I said. But I see what you mean. Frankly, I'm VERY open minded. Like, if someone looks like a dude but has a vagina, I am perfectly fine with engaging in an intimate relationship. I am, however, straight, so I won't go after guys or female-to-male transsexuals. But still, transgender people just wanna be called what they feel they are, they haven't had surgery to change their body.

 

And as for what Rathlord said, I get what he's saying. I am an ex-Christian turned Atheist, and when I was a believer, I just DESPISED the idea of homosexuality and the like, since it's supposedly a "sin." But over time I realized that was just shit planted in my head that I was brainwashed to believe ever since I was a baby by those around me. Luckily I've shaken all that and shed my skin and turned into the more open-minded individual I am today.

[ianopolos]

When i was in school i got attacked by agresive idiots.

Then i trained martial arts and become stronger than them so they stoped atacking like cowards.

[DrDildo]

In my opinion this shouldn't  take place, if you are a male, you're a male and you should deal with it, no hormones or other bullshit, and vice versa.

I really don't mind homosexual men and women, until they show it too much. Like I don't know kissing in public places etc. IMO it's unnatural to be same-sex attracted. Yup, I'm maybe old-fashioned or smth, but still i find homosexuality as a mental disease. And, from I can hear it's curable.

Still i think same-sex marriage should be allowed, but without ability to adopt children. 

[PK'EZ-54]

IMO it's unnatural to be same-sex attracted.

Then you'll probably chew your own arms off if you heard about asexuals.

 

 

i find homosexuality as a mental disease. And, from I can hear it's curable.

A disease? It's just a life choice. It's what makes them happier in life so they do it.

 

 

And, from I can hear it's curable.

'Curable'. I'm sorry but just, what?!

[kinyoshi]

It puts the lotion on my skin!!

[Ontogenesis]

In my opinion this shouldn't take place, if you are a male, you're a male and you should deal with it, no hormones or other bullshit, and vice versa.

I really don't mind homosexual men and women, until they show it too much. Like I don't know kissing in public places etc. IMO it's unnatural to be same-sex attracted. Yup, I'm maybe old-fashioned or smth, but still i find homosexuality as a mental disease. And, from I can hear it's curable.

Still i think same-sex marriage should be allowed, but without ability to adopt children.

Homosexuality isn't a mental illness. Illnesses are constructured via consensus, thus if society thinks it is not, then it's not.

Unsure why you think homosexuality is unnatural. Procreation and survival isn't really a valid argument.

Research shows.no difference in outcomes in children adopted by gay couples - what you think/feel isn't evidence.

Bah- hard to type on the phone.

[willow512]

Great topic, k12314 you are wise for your age.

 

People don't get to choose what gender they are or what gender they're attracted to. It's not a disease, and it isn't curable despite what some christian groups might tell you, these groups also generally tell you the earth is 7000 years old.

 

It's biologically normal. There are gay animals, in fact universally across all animal species same sex sexual relationships exist. It is clearly not a sin against nature, it's as natural as sex itself.

 

It's doesn't have to be a theological issue either. The story about the friendship between David and Jonathan in the bible is clearly a love story if you open your mind and heart to it. They kissed, they slept together, they loved each other more than they loved women. And daddy king Saul didn't approve.  (Bigotry is apparently also of the ages)

 

The only clear prohibition from the bible is in the levite lawbook. Which also claims you cannot cut your beard, wear two types of fabric together or eat shellfish. You can however sell your daughter into slavery, and kill people for having sex. Those were very sick people and certainly should not be emulated.

 

I was raised with the bible, and I believe it is a good book. I'm not an atheist. I probably wouldn't cut the mustard as a christian. I have sympathy for the people and their theology. I just think the anti gay agenda isn't christian in nature and doesn't belong with christians who are taught from birth to practice compassion and forgiveness. Jesus has a very clear agenda. Love yourself, love your neighbor. Be wise, act in compassion. Do not judge others. 

[k12314]

Great topic, k12314 you are wise for your age.

 

People don't get to choose what gender they are or what gender they're attracted to. It's not a disease, and it isn't curable despite what some christian groups might tell you, these groups also generally tell you the earth is 7000 years old.

 

It's biologically normal. There are gay animals, in fact universally across all animal species same sex sexual relationships exist. It is clearly not a sin against nature, it's as natural as sex itself.

 

It's doesn't have to be a theological issue either. The story about the friendship between David and Jonathan in the bible is clearly a love story if you open your mind and heart to it. They kissed, they slept together, they loved each other more than they loved women. And daddy king Saul didn't approve.  (Bigotry is apparently also of the ages)

 

The only clear prohibition from the bible is in the levite lawbook. Which also claims you cannot cut your beard, wear two types of fabric together or eat shellfish. You can however sell your daughter into slavery, and kill people for having sex. Those were very sick people and certainly should not be emulated.

 

I was raised with the bible, and I believe it is a good book. I'm not an atheist. I probably wouldn't cut the mustard as a christian. I have sympathy for the people and their theology. I just think the anti gay agenda isn't christian in nature and doesn't belong with christians who are taught from birth to practice compassion and forgiveness. Jesus has a very clear agenda. Love yourself, love your neighbor. Be wise, act in compassion. Do not judge others. 

 

So the bottom line is you're a Christian, but not a militant asshole about it like some people are.

 

And thanks for saying I'm wise for my age, I actually got most of my kind nature from learning about things online. The internet has helped open my mind to the world.

[MashPotato]

I know now how real gays and tranny been through and i support them even if i dont like them.

 

Just a note that "tranny" is generally considered an offensive term by the transexual community; I suggest you not use it, and definitely not on this forum.

[DrDildo]

Pancakez: 

 

It's just unnatural, we as mammals developed such things like vagina and penis, which fits each other to procreate. Anus isn't a f***-hole (looking from the natural side)

 

Yup, homosexuality was on official list of mental diseases, until in 1973 it was taken off under influence of homosexual environments.

 

It is curable by hormonal pills from what i heard, and by psychiatrists.

 

Onto:

Illness is abnormal condition that affects the body of an organism. It is often construed as a medical condition associated with specific symptoms and signs. It's not about what people think.

   

Why procreation isn't a valid argument?

 

Sorry for mistakes, I drunk a little bit too much and it's hard for me to form sentences in other language than mine.

 

Edit : 

It's only my opinion, and I don't want to offend anyone.

[Rathlord]

The only clear prohibition from the bible is in the levite lawbook. 

 

Just for the sake of clarity, there are some passages in the New Testament that are also pretty clearly against it. But like I said above, even if you disagree with it, as a Christian (or any other faith), doesn't mean you have to treat everyone differently. If you're a Christian, you learn that every human being is a sinner born in sin, and if every sin is equally condemning then we have no need to treat any kind of person any worse than we treat our friends and families.

 

Dr. D ilness has indeed been affected by what people think from the very origin of the term until today. If you want to call it a mental illness because it is 'not the norm' that's plausibly a valid point, but that doesn't mean they should be treated any differently. No one has hate rallies for ADHD adults... why have them for gay adults? And just because it's atypical, doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong- just different. Hating people who are different is a sure sign of a closed mind.

[ianopolos]

 

I know now how real gays and tranny been through and i support them even if i dont like them.

 

Just a note that "tranny" is generally considered an offensive term by the transexual community; I suggest you not use it, and definitely not on this forum.

 

Im journalist from Kazahstan, my goverment send me to USA to make movie film and spread teachings of glorius country NOT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZKiMTAewk8

[willow512]

It's just unnatural, we as mammals developed such things like vagina and penis, which fits each other to procreate. Anus isn't a f***-hole (looking from the natural side)

That's completely irrelevant, heterosexuals have anal sex aswell. According to your logic using hand or mouth is also unnatural?

 

But here's the real kicker, anal sex is not as prevalent as you might expect in homosexuals, Up to 40% of homosexual couples simply don't have anal sex. Compared to 60% of heterosexual couples.  And those gay couples who do have anal sex often prefer other forms of sex. Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it?

 

Yup, homosexuality was on official list of mental diseases, until in 1973 it was taken off under influence of homosexual environments.

It was on the list. But so were a lot of things. In particular don't get me started about the stance on female sexuality you should read up on the wonderful history of hysteria (which was on the list), and the true reason for the invention of the vibrator. Seriously, do it, you'll laugh your butt off and it's great material for smalltalk at parties (though not the kind of parties your parents visit). I suggest you don't take psychological classification too seriously. It's riddled with foolishness. I'm a psychologist myself, I'm qualified to say it.

 

It is curable by hormonal pills from what i heard, and by psychiatrists.

No it's not curable. Sorry, you're being misinformed.

 

It's a condition that will persist through life. You can use hormonal pills to subdue the sexual urges. But you cannot change the orientation. You must also realize that many of the men and woman who get stuck in therapies like this one are those who believe themselves that homosexuality is a sin, they are highly motivated to change. Yet only 3% report success, and one might question very much if these men were homosexual to begin with, and not bisexual, or got labeled homosexual because of adolescent experimentation.

[DrDildo]

willow512:

I know that most of straight pairs are having anal sex, yet as I said from the NATURAL side it shoudn't be done. It is indeed, still naturally we developed it  to poop (i really have no idea how to say it other way, does defecate fit here?) 

 

Still it was taken off the list because of homosexual environments influence, this is the thing that bothers me.

 

3% success rate is enough to say it's curable.

 

Yet, as I said, it's only my weird and sick mind, homosexuality just disgust me in personal way. I don't have anything against them(as long as they don't affect my life), and all what i wrote is just my own opinion. 

 

Thank you for informing me about my misinformation about hormonal therapy, I actually believed that it's possible for quite long time.

 

Rathlord:

As i said I don't hate them, yet for me just something like this is disgusting. I really don't mind them until they stay away from my personal life. 

 

And for ending - I'm not a person which is like "Oh she's lesbian, that's hot" "Gay man ygh, yuck ". Lesbians disgust me as well as gays.

 

I'm still drunk, sorry for mistakes.

[DrummerKidJack]

willow512:

I know that most of straight pairs are having anal sex, yet as I said from the NATURAL side it shoudn't be done. It is indeed, still naturally we developed it  to poop (i really have no idea how to say it other way, does defecate fit here?)

 

Appeal to nature

 

Still it was taken off the list because of homosexual environments influence, this is the thing that bothers me.

 

I think you'll find it was taken off because there was no discernible way for a credited psychologist to determine whether a person was homosexual or heterosexual

 

3% success rate is enough to say it's curable.

 

It's not curable, because it's not a disease. 

 

Rathlord:

As i said I don't hate them, yet for me just something like this is disgusting. I really don't mind them until they stay away from my personal life. 

 

So long as you don't vote against gay rights (such as marriage equality), I have no issue with this.

 

EDIT: colours and stuff

[DrDildo]

DrummerKidJack:

 

As I said, it's all MY opinion.

 

Appeal to nature, so if I say, don't appeal to love, what arguments will you have?

 

In my opinion, as well as some other pepole homosexuality IS a disease. For now, at least. 

 

And yes, I will vote against adoption of child by homosexual couples, because if they want baby, they should be able to make it by themselves. If you have issue with it, ugh, I think I'll live with it.

 

I don't know if you are homosexual, or you aren't, still I'm repeating: Everything what I wrote is my opinion, and I don't force anyone to think like me. If you are a homosexual man/woman and you felt offended by any of my words, I'm sorry.

[Rathlord]

If you're not letting them adopt then you are 100% forcing it on them. What about singles that adopt? What about couples that are infertile? Or couples that adopt just to help children? I respect your opinion and you're welcome to it but this is a tremendous double standard.

[DrummerKidJack]

 

And yes, I will vote against adoption of child by homosexual couples, because if they want baby, they should be able to make it by themselves. If you have issue with it, ugh, I think I'll live with it.

 

You want homosexuals to stay out of your personal life, and yet by voting in this way you are taking a direct hand in theirs.

[Pixel Bombs]

DrummerKidJack:

 

As I said, it's all MY opinion.

 

Appeal to nature, so if I say, don't appeal to love, what arguments will you have?

 

In my opinion, as well as some other pepole homosexuality IS a disease. For now, at least. 

 

So you have an opinion that is not backed by anything other than your disgust for it? gr8 logic m8.

 

And yes, I will vote against adoption of child by homosexual couples, because if they want baby, they should be able to make it by themselves. If you have issue with it, ugh, I think I'll live with it.

 

What would this accomplish other than to spite gay people? If someone or some people are qualified to adopt a child or children then why keep them apart other than you find gay people icky? 

 

I don't know if you are homosexual, or you aren't, still I'm repeating: Everything what I wrote is my opinion, and I don't force anyone to think like me. If you are a homosexual man/woman and you felt offended by any of my words, I'm sorry.

 

Your words are not what would hurt someone BTW. Its what you are saying you would do (your comment on gay adoption is a good example) to the lives of gay people that is 1000x more offensive. 

Your argument comes down to "I can't handle the thought of what other people do in the privacy of their own house" and is extremely immature and damaging.

 

And as what you said about homosexuals kissing in public, all I can say is get over it. I see tons of people slobbering all over each other everyday and I find that a metric fuckton more disgusting than a gay couple giving a peck on the lips. It all comes down to opinion, yeah, but if you feel like not being grossed out by a gay couple kissing justifies laws banning them from being together, you need to check your priorities. 

[DrDildo]

I'm voting because they don't have such right, and in my opinion it should stay like that. 

Singles are able to reproduce, by the influence of other person of opposite sex of course, but still they don't have to be a copule.

Infertile couples still follow the man-woman natural way of living, and they are fertile because of accident/disease/genetics not because of sexual attractions.

 

I never said I disrespect any other opinion, I felt disrespected by Drummer, and only wanted to underline that it's only my opinion.

 

Edit:

Pixel 

 

Not only disgust, but as well as the fact that it is unnatural, nature didn't project us this way.

 

Homosexual parents can affect vulnerable children mental condition. As well as they can be assaulted by other children from school. I would agree if the children adopted were over 13 yo, and if that children will agree to be adopted by gay couple. Of course he can renounce from his decision in any moment.

 

I would do it not because "Oh f**** gay pepole, i don't like them", but because I don't think it would be healthy for mental health of children.