terrordrone Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I'm a moderator of a Project Zomboid server. We used to be a whitelist server, but decided to drop the whitelist to get more players. This has lead to a large amount of people using Alt-Characters for griefing purposes. We are not exposing the Steam Accounts of the players, as they'd prefer not to have the Accounts public. This means people are griefing on Alt-Characters, without anyone knowing who's behind the character. While discussing this issue with a fellow moderator, we came up with the following idea: A server setting/configuration option, that would only allow 1 character per Steam account. Once you join the server with a Character, your Steam Account and the character are bound together. You will be denied access to the server when you try to join with any other character. This binding will only break when the character dies, or an Admin breaks it for you.You should be able to adjust this on a per-player basis. The moderators on the server prefer to have 2 characters, one being an Admin, and the other being a regular Character to play the game on without people calling us cheaters. I believe that this solution would help servers that don't want people abusing alt-characters, without ever interfering with servers that don't care about Alt-Characters. Since you can configure it on a per-player basis, your server can still allow 2 or more characters, but also allows you to set a limit on the maximum amount. The only way to get around this is to use a second Steam Account, but server Admins could just ban the second account from the server when they believe someone is using it as an alt. Kind regards,Terrordrone syfy and ToastedFishSandwich 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUDOXIO Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 You can set the ServerPlayerID, so only the characters created at the server can play on it. You have some info on that here http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/17052-server-save-vs-player-save/#entry212252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrordrone Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 You can set the ServerPlayerID, so only the characters created at the server can play on it. You have some info on that here http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/17052-server-save-vs-player-save/#entry212252That won't stop people from making multiple characters on our server though, which is the main problem. Importing characters from singleplayer/other servers is a completely different issue.But thanks for the link, didn't know about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUDOXIO Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Sorry didnt understand right what you mean by Alt-Characters. Maybe implementing some SteamID whitelist, apart from the player name whitelist, could do the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 There's probably all of two poeple using alts in a noticable fashion on Redboid right now. They've been talked with. Well I'm all for having options, I'm not letting hyperbole be the reason for it . . And frankly, I'm not disallowing alts on Redboid unless there's a serious problem, anyway. At this point their usage as utility (farmer, caprenter, hunter .etc) characters are common for PZ multiplayer. Disallowing it would just be kind of a "fuck you" to our playerbase. But sure, otherwise the idea is sound: force the SteamID to be the primary key in the database if the rserver admins want that (particularly valuable for non-whitelisted RP servers that want to regulate their player base). EUDOXIO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaSpectre Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Forcing SteamID would get rid of most griefers. Though I wouldn't be surprised if someone has access to multiple steam accounts. I.E. their friend's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_bound Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I am part of the server in question and I have considered joining an opposing faction to gain intel incase of all out war. This is a problem that should be fixed. Either by showing steam ID's or by the method perscribed above. This is not a tactic I should beable to use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorak Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I agree that files with character gear and skills should be on server side. dunno how big they are and how much it would slow down server but abusing those saves can ruin other players experiance. FreakPsych 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I am part of the server in question and I have considered joining an opposing faction to gain intel incase of all out war. This is a problem that should be fixed. Either by showing steam ID's or by the method perscribed above. This is not a tactic I should beable to useAny reason why you shouldn't? Personally I'd consider it interesting to have a espionage/saboteurplotline in even a multiplayer game. Or for that matter the chance people could mistake what's goining on, as happened a few days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrordrone Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 I agree that files with character gear and skills should be on server side. dunno how big they are and how much it would slow down server but abusing those saves can ruin other players experiance.This thread isn't about save file abusing or importing. I came up with the idea in the OP to stop people from using 20 different characters on the same server.As an example:I join the server for the first time, and make a character called terrordrone. After getting into a fight with a group of survivors, I create a new account and use a different name. I can now walk up to the group without them getting suspicious, and stab them in the back when they least expect it.This seems unfair against the group of survivors, as they had no idea I was the one that killed them. If they start warning other people about me, I can just claim it was an entirely different player.See the issue? Enabling the setting that exposes the Steam accounts isn't an option, as people would like some privacy on the server. The only thing we can do is trying to keep track of all the accounts and start throwing the banhammer if people take it too far. My suggestion in the OP should take care of the issue without needing constant attention from a moderator.As for Enigma, I get that using multiple characters is a normal PZ multiplayer thing. I'm just trying to tone it down before someone takes it too far and causes people to leave the community.If you ask me, groups exist because they are stronger than individuals. Why group up if you can just have a character for every profession?We don't have to completely remove alt-characters from the server, but I do feel like we should keep it under control. One of these days people will get pissed off by some griefer on an alt and leave the server. If the right people from a faction leave, the entire faction ends up disbanding and leaving. We don't want that.We either do something soon, or go grab some popcorn and watch the server die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 You've then learned a very valuable lesson about trusting poeple immediately. There isn't much point in taking preventative measures too far, assuming everyone abuses this, and remove the ability for others prematurely. I've ran five servers consecuitively for almost a year without this being an issue. I'm inclined to think it'll remain that way, particularly because, if someone suspects a player is being abusive, we can just check and deal with it. It would have been better to bring this up with me privately, before predicting the server's death publicly. Any action or server-side fix added fails the moment someone realises they can just purchase a separate copy of the game with a different Steam account. It also fails due to split-screen controller support, which allows one SteamID to have as manya s four players. We don't have to completely remove alt-characters from the server, but I do feel like we should keep it under control. One of these days people will get pissed off by some griefer on an alt and leave the server. If the right people from a faction leave, the entire faction ends up disbanding and leaving. We don't want that. Either way we lose and piss off people. The only differnece is those whom want to play with alts can go to any server they choose; and, those who don't like alts, are effectively quiting multiplayer or moving to a much more restrictive server than Redboid. Redboid is dealt a fatal blow in both scenarios. Instead, we should encourage players to report suspected abuse and deal with it if it's a problem instead of trying to alienate our playerbase. Rathlord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrordrone Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 We can just ban the secondary Steam accounts from the server. That really won't be a problem.Obviously the idea in the OP isn't the best solution ever, and it could absolutely use some tweaks. I didn't think of the controller thing, but this could be added to the idea in the OP.As said in my previous post, we don't have to ban all alt's, just put a limit on it.I'm done with discussing this for now, it was just an idea I wanted to tell the developers about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_bound Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Well a few key people in my faction had this discussion today. A few of us are fed up with the greifing, including my self. And short of griefing the other faction our selves our options are leave the server or complain. It seems complaining wont do anything, so we get into a grief war or leave. Personally I got better shit to do then get into it with some ass holes who like stirring up drama for their youtube channel. I like the group of guys I play with, I like working as a team. I like the server. I don't like not knowing who my enemys are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Well a few key people in my faction had this discussion today. A few of us are fed up with the greifing, including my self. And short of griefing the other faction our selves our options are leave the server or complain. It seems complaining wont do anything, so we get into a grief war or leave. Personally I got better shit to do then get into it with some ass holes who like stirring up drama for their youtube channel. I like the group of guys I play with, I like working as a team. I like the server. I don't like not knowing who my enemys are.Your lack of trust in our ability to admin our own server is disappointing. Some of those you suspect to have been using alts weren't, and the only one who acted abusively has been warned for it, as said on the Reddit. valhalla_bound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_bound Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 On a non-personal note, the OP's idea should be implemented as a optional server setting for those who wish to prevent alts on their server with out whitelisting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorak Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I agree that files with character gear and skills should be on server side. dunno how big they are and how much it would slow down server but abusing those saves can ruin other players experiance.This thread isn't about save file abusing or importing. I came up with the idea in the OP to stop people from using 20 different characters on the same server.As an example:I join the server for the first time, and make a character called terrordrone. After getting into a fight with a group of survivors, I create a new account and use a different name. I can now walk up to the group without them getting suspicious, and stab them in the back when they least expect it.This seems unfair against the group of survivors, as they had no idea I was the one that killed them. If they start warning other people about me, I can just claim it was an entirely different player.See the issue? Enabling the setting that exposes the Steam accounts isn't an option, as people would like some privacy on the server. The only thing we can do is trying to keep track of all the accounts and start throwing the banhammer if people take it too far. My suggestion in the OP should take care of the issue without needing constant attention from a moderator.As for Enigma, I get that using multiple characters is a normal PZ multiplayer thing. I'm just trying to tone it down before someone takes it too far and causes people to leave the community.If you ask me, groups exist because they are stronger than individuals. Why group up if you can just have a character for every profession?We don't have to completely remove alt-characters from the server, but I do feel like we should keep it under control. One of these days people will get pissed off by some griefer on an alt and leave the server. If the right people from a faction leave, the entire faction ends up disbanding and leaving. We don't want that.We either do something soon, or go grab some popcorn and watch the server die.oh ok. I never had that situation. I dont see much connection with privacy and steam. Ive played over 2500h in dota2 where people are much much worse. I never had any problem with showing my steam profile. beside you can set it to private. IMO steam is the best solution for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_bound Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Well a few key people in my faction had this discussion today. A few of us are fed up with the greifing, including my self. And short of griefing the other faction our selves our options are leave the server or complain. It seems complaining wont do anything, so we get into a grief war or leave. Personally I got better shit to do then get into it with some ass holes who like stirring up drama for their youtube channel. I like the group of guys I play with, I like working as a team. I like the server. I don't like not knowing who my enemys are.Your lack of trust in our ability to admin our own server is disappointing.Some of those you suspect to have been using alts weren't, and the only one who acted abusively has been warned for it, as said on the Reddit.We don't think you can't admin, you do a great job. Obviously we can't know for sure who is using alt's. But you seem to not think of it as a big deal as some of us. Hence the complaining wont do anything comment. It doesn't really matter if people are using alts to greif, as long as it's possible that you can then people will be suspicious. You like that (according to your above post), I don't. It's not a lack of ability, it's a difference in perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 We don't think you can't admin, you do a great job. Obviously we can't know for sure who is using alt's. But you seem to not think of it as a big deal as some of us. Hence the complaining wont do anything comment. It doesn't really matter if people are using alts to greif, as long as it's possible that you can then people will be suspicious. You like that (according to your above post), I don't. It's not a lack of ability, it's a difference in perspective You'll never escape this on public servers, though. You have to be suspicious and on guard short of running your own server with a group of trusted friends. That might be your best option in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_bound Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 And this is why I neve really played on public servers prior too Redboid. EnigmaGrey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gonfalon Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 It's not the VBB who are creating alts and griefing you (other than when we needed to prove a point for us to be taken seriously in retaliation). When we do mess with you, it's nothing major that can't be easily dealt with or fixed. Just adding some lore into the server. We aren't going to be the ones to massacre or destroy BT because I know how much time and effort it takes to build something like that. That said, you shouldn't feel completely safe on the server from bandits. You do realize that you built a massive complex, full of loot, near the only spawn point right? Ad the server gets more popular, people are going to fuck with you. You are going to have to learn to deal with that. Case in point. The VBB has a very public "base". You can find it easily on the Youtube videos. So we have to deal with griefers every time we log on. Pretty sure Swolez fell through my traps the other day and is quite angry about it. I don't know how long it took him, but he sledged out the entire floor to the base and some of the walls. That's the risk you take on a public server with a public location.PS. Swolez, the net is closing in on you. We have eyes in most of the cities....and far away locals. EnigmaGrey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global_Meltdown Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 TBH: Everytime I play an Engineer there's a 50/50 shot something is going to burn........... not for the intent of griefing. I was burning through a forest a couple of weeks back on a public server and the fire spread and burnt down someone's base. I guess they figured it was safe to build in the middle of it with no paths leading to it. Good idea actually. Tragedy? yes. Intentional? no. Funny as hell? Definitely. It would be cool if down the road, with the implementation of NPC's, to have the option of being a soldier/anarchist as there is a lot of fun to be had. Just depends if that's actually part of the gameplay or not. Spy/Saboteur would be really interesting regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_bound Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 It's not the VBB who are creating alts and griefing you (other than when we needed to prove a point for us to be taken seriously in retaliation). When we do mess with you, it's nothing major that can't be easily dealt with or fixed. Just adding some lore into the server. We aren't going to be the ones to massacre or destroy BT because I know how much time and effort it takes to build something like that. That said, you shouldn't feel completely safe on the server from bandits. You do realize that you built a massive complex, full of loot, near the only spawn point right? Ad the server gets more popular, people are going to fuck with you. You are going to have to learn to deal with that. Case in point. The VBB has a very public "base". You can find it easily on the Youtube videos. So we have to deal with griefers every time we log on. Pretty sure Swolez fell through my traps the other day and is quite angry about it. I don't know how long it took him, but he sledged out the entire floor to the base and some of the walls. That's the risk you take on a public server with a public location.PS. Swolez, the net is closing in on you. We have eyes in most of the cities....and far away locals. Yeah, we understand that. We don't keep most of our stuff in base and we dont keep all our stuff in one stash. As far as us assuming you were griefing us? Well. To be fair we don't know you, so it might of been wrong but not unreasonable to assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethanwdp Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Back on topic, it would be the best of both worlds if OP's suggestion would also be togglable in the server config. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhalla_bound Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Back on topic, it would be the best of both worlds if OP's suggestion would also be togglable in the server config.Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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