Looting/giving to players

[Elliohow]

The ability to do a "frisk" to make sure npcs and players don't have any weapons on them would be useful. That combined with the ability to loot/give to npcs and players means you can hold them up without fear of an unknown gun shooting you suddenly. This may lead to less executions if you can make sure they don't have weapons and can loot them without killing them.

Handcuffs and player animations such as raising their hands (with lowering of hands necessary to get things out of your bags into your main inventory or to equip things) means that real hold ups can happen.

[Daec]

I taste DayZ in this post. Handcuffs, potatosacks and hold ups just gave this game uber sadistic players.

Of course "you could loot them without killing them" but for what i learned so far is, you get killed anyways. But with Handcuffs and all this options you get humiliated before.

That's one of the things i feared the most for multiplayer. All the potential of apocalypse simulation gets lost in a crowd of trigger happy nonthinkers, killing everything "because they can" and teaching you how f@!*ed up players nowadays can be.

That's not to be taken personal. But just take a look on DayZ as a whole and it turn out as a World filled with psychopaths.

[unsaved_progress]

That's not to be taken personal. But just take a look on DayZ as a whole and it turn out as a World filled with psychopaths.

 

+1

 

I'd hate to see PZ go down that path...

[syfy]

must agree. we have enough games with such behavior.

no need to turn PZ into a clone of them.

 

sharing loot is already easy enough, just find a shelf or crate and place or take the objects.

if in the wild, just drop it on the ground.

[Elliohow]

You can certainly taste the Dayz in this post because Dayz was one of the spices used in this dish. Bad extended metaphors aside, I personally think the Dayz community is a more sadistic entity because there isnt much to do other than kill and/or humiliate players. Zombies are basically a non threat. Without players being sadistic and cruel to each other, the only real threat is boredom (of the game). It is said that the endgame of Dayz is -as so far- dominion over other players through killing and "torturing".
How do you force someone to do something in Dayz which they would never do otherwise? Guns and the threat of em.

 

Hypothetical scenario comparison:

 

Dayz- "Get on your knees and let me handcuff you or I will shoot you." "Shit well then I guess I better do what you say."

 

Project zomboid- "Get on your knees and let me handcuff you or I will shoot you." "And risk bringing the shamblers to this location? Hah. That'd be both of us done for."

 

Guns are in both project zomboid and Dayz, they are not used in the same way. Therefore just because the same items, i.e handcuffs or guns, would be/are in both of the games, this does not mean that they will be used in the same way, for the same reasons, with the same amount of frequency.

 

Now im sure you know how harsh the environment is in PZ, its a totally different game. Saying that if handcuffs and giving/taking directly off the body without shooting were added to the game, then this would faciliate the same kind of behaviour you can see within Dayz is not a point to be made and one must not weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of potentially adding items into a game based on how those items are used in different games. That is what they are, different games.

[thiosk]

Ive seen a lot of dayz vids.. Never seen a zombie. It's always silly executions, forced fights to the death, or a guy with a fire axe running around in circles.

I feel like these things could be left to the server admin. If one could mod that behavior in, someone entering the server would clone those mods remotely. That way, us normal people could play on normal servers, and the psychopaths could have their servers too. I see modding as a solution to everything, and the system with pz seems robust enough to do just about anything.

[syfy]

right you are, Elliohow. they are different games. and leaving some of the more trollish/griefer stuff in the other game sounds like a good idea. we already have plenty of the spawn spot serial killers, lets not give them another way to get their jollies.

[Sieben]

Hmm, my opinion of handcuffs in PZ is just for rp. So you don't need really an item just an poweremote like *binds his hands on his back with a rope* or something. On pvp servers the opposite player just knocks his finger against his head if you want to capture him

[Elliohow]

right you are, Elliohow. they are different games. and leaving some of the more trollish/griefer stuff in the other game sounds like a good idea. we already have plenty of the spawn spot serial killers, lets not give them another way to get their jollies.

 

You missed my point entirely, the player base is different, the environment is different, the games are different. You could also say, that every feature of any game ever should not be including in Project Zomboid as they would also be, different games. Unless you consider the possibility that because they are different games where Project Zomboid does NOT facilitate this kind of behaviour, the context in which handcuffs will be used if added to PZ will probably differ in frequency and frequency.

 

I have more faith in the Project Zomboid player base.

[Zombies are my friends]

I think we should encourage player friendliness, so that PZ doesn't turn into a world full of people who kill on sight.

[syfy]

unfortunately, it seems probable that is exactly it will become if you are crazy enough to join a PVP server. and with some of the ideas out there for restraints, taking hostages,and other nonsense it will only be a matter of time till some people view MP PVP as an offspring of FPS style gameplay.

 

which will make it even more important to find a steady, sane group of players that run a white listed server that discourages such behavior.

[Daec]

unfortunately, it seems probable that is exactly it will become if you are crazy enough to join a PVP server. and with some of the ideas out there for restraints, taking hostages,and other nonsense it will only be a matter of time till some people view MP PVP as an offspring of FPS style gameplay.

which will make it even more important to find a steady, sane group of players that run a white listed server that discourages such behavior.

I fully agree. Even though the point has been made that this community is different, keep in mind that PZ is now on Steam and has multiplayer...guess what Kind of people are going to be on the Servers soon. All they See is "survival....multiplayer...pvp"

[Elliohow]

I'd rather expand potential emergent gameplay players can experience rather than limit them. If you want a server that doesn't have pvp or is whitelist only, sure, go for that. But to limit everyone else because you don't want it when you can avoid it entirely isn't beneficial to a new avenue of emergent gameplay.

[syfy]

I'd rather expand potential emergent gameplay players can experience rather than limit them. If you want a server that doesn't have pvp or is whitelist only, sure, go for that. But to limit everyone else because you don't want it when you can avoid it entirely isn't beneficial to a new avenue of emergent gameplay.

yeah, you made your point clear on that. and to a degree you are right. but as a person who strictly avoids games that have possible hostage taking, cuffing/binding/restraining and other such actions, i will naturally be resistant to such things being added to this game.

 

as i said before, there are already enough games out there that have those things as part of it's gameplay. why do we need to bring it into this game? just because others are doing it, does not mean we need to do it too.

[Elliohow]

The same can be said of guns, or needing to scavenge. Other games do it, why should pz? There are enough games with these things already, why have them?

Because it fits with the gameplay, the style, the realism. More games have guns than hostage taking, it is not a point to not have these items purely because other games have them. If it fits with the vision, the realism that the devs are going for and adds to the emergent gameplay, sure, add hostage taking.

To be honest the only game I know with hostage taking is Dayz.

Your criticism seems to rest more on your personal dislike for restraining in games rather than the (unfounded) declaration that PZ shouldn't have hostage taking because other games have it.

As a challenge, try to create a game without any mechanics that are used by a multitude of games and invent a whole new story and the mechanics yourself without influences from any other media.

[Daec]

The same can be said of guns, or needing to scavenge. Other games do it, why should pz? There are enough games with these things already, why have them?

Because it fits with the gameplay, the style, the realism. More games have guns than hostage taking, it is not a point to not have these items purely because other games have them. If it fits with the vision, the realism that the devs are going for and adds to the emergent gameplay, sure, add hostage taking.

To be honest the only game I know with hostage taking is Dayz.

Your criticism seems to rest more on your personal dislike for restraining in games rather than the (unfounded) declaration that PZ shouldn't have hostage taking because other games have it.

As a challenge, try to create a game without any mechanics that are used by a multitude of games and invent a whole new story and the mechanics yourself without influences from any other media.

The main reason why i'm against it isn't especially because "other games have it" but because what people will do. Even though PZ is abstract with it's graphics and so on, most will forget that there is another human beeing at the other end. So while humiliating a PC you actually humiliate another human beeing...and are amused of it. So to me it is more for the love of keeping humanity and psychological integrity to be against it

[Elliohow]

But surely a zombie survival game can approach these issues and see what happens. This is the end of the world where you make the choices and choose how you want to go about surviving.

Dayz is not a zombie game, it is barely a survival game, it is an online bastard simulator purely because there is nothing else to do.

Project Zomboid is a zombie game, it is definitely a survival game, I'd much rather play cooperatively in this game then kill people.

Honestly, I feel guilty shooting people in multiplayer games like this, those are some of the feelings a game like this can conjure up. Maybe I will NEED to shoot someone or restrain someone, I guarantee I will feel guilty, but honestly that is fine. Even though I wouldn't do it purely to humiliate someone, I'd rather have the ability to restrain if necessary, instead of being limited because people looked at Dayz and saw how it worked there and went, "guess we shouldn't, just in case."

Plus, if someone restrained me in this game to humiliate me... so what. This isn't a game that pushes you to be good/bad, it is a game that let's you choose.

Let the choice be on the player. Let them feel guilty. Let them role-play as a lone raider, because honestly, what is wrong with that.

[DirectorPr]

The world is a sadistic place already, an apocalypse will make it even more of a terrible place. Not only would you have zombies ready to rip your throat out and eat it, you have raiders that just wanna rip your throat out and every limb you've ever owned. No matter how much you want a player friendly enviorment you're leaving out one of the key parts to an apocalyptic world, psychopaths and raiders. They're going to be there no matter how much you want them not to. If you want the game to be realistic you must make some sacrifices in order to do that. In Project Zomboid once you have a self sustaining base there is no purpose other than to sit inside while zombies moan around outside, its boring. Raiders and psychopaths keep it interesting. They see your base, they want what you have, you're at war with a group of raiders instead of sitting in your base doing crossword puzzles. Long story short, raiders and psychopaths are gonna be there whether you want them or not. The most you can do is be a good person, form a strong community of friendly players, and try to decimate bandit opposition, I mean its the only way you can do it without limiting gameplay opportunity.

 

TL;DR condensed version, Can't take the banditry out of an apocalypse game.

[Elliohow]

Director I agree completely

[GoldenBullet]

I always had mixed feelings with Free-for-all pvp in video games. They pretty much ruin sandbox games and turn them into a place where everyone is completely paranoid of one another. In RL even in dramatic situations, people tend not to want to kill one another. In game it just "oh that person looks decked out, let me still their shit". I mean seriously if there was a zombie apocalypse tomorrow you might kill someone if you were in a brink of starving but you wouldn't take a spiked bat to the back of someones head just because they had a gun you wanted (at least lets hope not).

[dra6o0n]

Can we just make it so you can view a worn backpack tab when you stand behind someone close up? Clicking to switch to that tab takes a few seconds to unzip then view, and grabbing items out of back back takes 50% longer.

If you want a server thats dayz style, turn zombie count to high, AMD raise rarity of items on them to common, then watch as players 'dayz' with the masses of zeds.

[Elliohow]

I like that backpack idea, the thread became too focused on just the handcuffing suggestion, but yeah, I like that suggesion.

[Pridelost]

I'd like to have this feature available but with the means to disable it like PvP. As mentioned a few times in the thread it would be great for roleplaying as well as challenging scenarios. An example for both would be spawning in a jail cell with handcuffs on as the police officer opens the cell for you out of sympathy. Of course he left the door behind him open and a zombie chomps down on his neck. Knowing his fate he shoots the zombie and then passes out from blood loss. If the zombification is quick then it'll be up to the player to grab either a weapon or the keys, also all the attraction from the gunfire. If the player chooses to remain handcuffed and escaped the station it would be a sort of mini-event to find a way to remove them. If he grabs the keys anything could happen, with the chance of being scratched if they don't leave quickly. With the handcuffs you could kick down a tool shed door and use a pipe cutting saw, or have another player use an axe. I'm excited to see the crafting system improve to add more improvising but that is a different thread. I'm for the handcuffs, and with this solid community and great dev's I dont see this going anywhere near the way of DayZ. 

[CatGuitarist]

Guys, lets face it. If a zombie apocalypse happens, most likely there IS going to be a group that kills everyone and loots everything....

 

...and i will obviously be part of it. You know i am an Insurgent Maniac.

[Daec]

Guys, lets face it. If a zombie apocalypse happens, most likely there IS going to be a group that kills everyone and loots everything....

...and i will obviously be part of it. You know i am an Insurgent Maniac.

Im actually not even questioning that there will be Raiders and Bandits and whatsoever. Even though it's a sad Statement for humanity that many will meet their death thinking they are the alpha Wolfs and "the fittest" because they killed people for shit. (The ones that have the Best and most realistic Chance to survive, are actually those you never see). The Problem is the same as the reason why 'so many' want to be the 'bandits' 'raiders' or whatever...it's a game. So even though in a realistic scenario raiders and bandits would be pretty much extinct After around half a year to 2 years...in a game, they respawn. Knowing where exactly survivors are, what they have and how many they are.