Silencer for weapons

[John_234]

I've always been a fan of .22's, really, and that would by far be my weapon of choice for zombies. It's still somewhat of a tradeoff between picking up high velocity rounds to ensure that the bullets pierce the skull, or risk low velocity rounds that are much quieter but might graze off or just not fully penetrate the skull.

 

As a fun side note, .22's have a reputation for piercing the skull, ricocheting off of the back of it (on the inside) and pretty much scrambling brains. I can't think of any better way to take down a zombie.

I think when I worked on a zedsky survival site, my tenative weapons loadout was one primary rifle/ shotgun, handgun on beltline and a .22 rifle. Or at least two of the .22s per group of four people.

 

Those .22 shorts are nifty, though. I fired them out of a Marlin model 60 and they're like airsoft guns going off. I think the 60 grn .22 LRs work fine for small game and such, but their primary issue was feeding. Always buy high velocity and all that.

[Sheamus]

What about air rifles? They are pretty easy to come by, most crooked kids (like the one I was =P) has/had one. Of course you can't do a lot of damage with it, but when hunting is implemented it could be pretty handy to get yourself some meat from critters like rabbits, ducks and such(could also be used to get rid of rats trying to eat your crops and stuff). And it's not as loud as a hunting rifle so it won't get loads of zeds rushing down at you unless you're in the middle of the town.=P

[John_234]

What about air rifles? They are pretty easy to come by, most crooked kids (like the one I was =P) has/had one. Of course you can't do a lot of damage with it, but when hunting is implemented it could be pretty handy to get yourself some meat from critters like rabbits, ducks and such(could also be used to get rid of rats trying to eat your crops and stuff). And it's not as loud as a hunting rifle so it won't get loads of zeds rushing down at you unless you're in the middle of the town.=P

Air rifles would probably be good for killing aforementioned small game, also stuff like taking out lights or cracking windows from a distance. Not sure how you'd implement that with an isometic view though.

[Connall]

 

What about air rifles? They are pretty easy to come by, most crooked kids (like the one I was =P) has/had one. Of course you can't do a lot of damage with it, but when hunting is implemented it could be pretty handy to get yourself some meat from critters like rabbits, ducks and such(could also be used to get rid of rats trying to eat your crops and stuff). And it's not as loud as a hunting rifle so it won't get loads of zeds rushing down at you unless you're in the middle of the town.=P

Air rifles would probably be good for killing aforementioned small game, also stuff like taking out lights or cracking windows from a distance. Not sure how you'd implement that with an isometic view though.

 

 

Shooting out windows wouldn't be too bad, but taking out lights would probably be a bit harder to do in an isometric viewpoint.

[nokinobu]

I'm sorry, but people who link Youtube videos about suppressors bother me something fierce. Sound capture devices do a shit job with recording sharp, brief increases in volume- especially with non-proffessional video cameras. Not to mention, people with suppressor videos tend to be very liberal with the sound editing process. Also worth noting, most video capture software and video hosting sites tend to normalize volume some. YouTube videos about suppressors are in no way, shape, or form a reliable method of information about this and should be 100% disregarded.

 

The caliber of the bullet and the load only impacts the sound of the gas exiting the firearm. The sonic boom is still indistinguishable, regardless of caliber, as long as it's going faster than the speed of sound which all except specialty bullets do.

 

If you don't wear ear protection with suppressors, you are damaging your hearing. Sonic booms from guns are still ~80 decibels, which is in the range of causing hearing damage.

 

Sorry if i miss something i just had to just in when reading the back and forth discussion. As you say they are usually not permitted, but permission isnt an obstacle in the zombie apocalypse, and if they dont change the sound at all why do they even exist and especially in the case of the military why would they use this if it will just wake up everyone anyway?

Lastly what i think most people mean here is that they want something they can use to clear an area with a gun without the whole town of zombies coming your direction so you come outside and suddenly you are surrounded by hordes. Even if it doesnt last forever even for a few uses is great. The point is someone will thing of it and they will want to fix it and find the solution they will, in real life.

I kinda just skimmed the parts where people went into way to much detail on guns.

First.

 

1. How is it I haven't commented on this thread already.

 

2. I am against silencers.

 

3. If we need to make guns this complicated in a game where they shouldn't be then someone is doing something wrong.

 

Opinion of course.

 

How does it make sense to you that guns shouldnt be in this game? Its set in america.. its not that hard to get a gun there. Especially when you are by law allowed to shoot someone who trespasses into your home..

I dont know this is detail but if im not too mistaken that should be the jist of it.

[Walther]

 

I kinda just skimmed the parts where people went into way to much detail on guns.

First.

 

1. How is it I haven't commented on this thread already.

 

2. I am against silencers.

 

3. If we need to make guns this complicated in a game where they shouldn't be then someone is doing something wrong.

 

Opinion of course.

 

How does it make sense to you that guns shouldnt be in this game? Its set in america.. its not that hard to get a gun there. Especially when you are by law allowed to shoot someone who trespasses into your home..

I dont know this is detail but if im not too mistaken that should be the jist of it.

 

 

i think he means that if we need different kinds of calibers and ammunition types and weapons just to makes silencers plausible/work then we should just drop it... I personally am not in favour of silencers. shooting a weapon in the post zombie-apocalyptic world should be dangerous, because of the loud pewpew. loud pew pew bad bad

[Rathlord]

I'm sorry, but people who link Youtube videos about suppressors bother me something fierce. Sound capture devices do a shit job with recording sharp, brief increases in volume- especially with non-proffessional video cameras. Not to mention, people with suppressor videos tend to be very liberal with the sound editing process. Also worth noting, most video capture software and video hosting sites tend to normalize volume some. YouTube videos about suppressors are in no way, shape, or form a reliable method of information about this and should be 100% disregarded.

The caliber of the bullet and the load only impacts the sound of the gas exiting the firearm. The sonic boom is still indistinguishable, regardless of caliber, as long as it's going faster than the speed of sound which all except specialty bullets do.

If you don't wear ear protection with suppressors, you are damaging your hearing. Sonic booms from guns are still ~80 decibels, which is in the range of causing hearing damage.

Sorry if i miss something i just had to just in when reading the back and forth discussion. As you say they are usually not permitted, but permission isnt an obstacle in the zombie apocalypse, and if they dont change the sound at all why do they even exist and especially in the case of the military why would they use this if it will just wake up everyone anyway?

Lastly what i think most people mean here is that they want something they can use to clear an area with a gun without the whole town of zombies coming your direction so you come outside and suddenly you are surrounded by hordes. Even if it doesnt last forever even for a few uses is great. The point is someone will thing of it and they will want to fix it and find the solution they will, in real life.

You, sir, need to read what people say before replying.

I mentioned suppressors being illegal because that means there hard to find, not that people would be obeying gun control laws in the apocalypse… obviously.

No one at all said suppressors dot change sound at all… obviously. I even quoted a direct figure of how much it was muted.

TL;DR Please don't quote me and then just post a long straw man response.

[nokinobu]

Well im sorry for not being perfect and new here after just having bought this game cause i love the idea. If you are so unbreakable in your resolve on there being no such possibility why not just add it to the No list of will not be implementing, people are in the simple way just asking cant there be some way of making this possible?

[Connall]

Well im sorry for not being perfect and new here after just having bought this game cause i love the idea. If you are so unbreakable in your resolve on there being no such possibility why not just add it to the No list of will not be implementing, people are in the simple way just asking cant there be some way of making this possible?

 

The list I assume you are referring to, I believe Rathlord doesn't actually add stuff himself, stuff gets added to the thread when the developers come out and say "Yes, Maybe, No" if that doesn't happen then the idea stays off the list until a dev comments on it. Or at least that's how I think it works.

 

Edit: Should really be a bit more clear, Rathlord does add stuff to the thread but only when the Devs say Yay/Nay

[Rathlord]

Yes, it's only updated when we hear from the devs on something. I'm not against people discussing it- discussion is good. It's just more productive for everyone if you make responses that actually address people's points. I'm sorry if I came off harsh, just want to keep an environment that's conducive to effective debate.

[John_234]

Yeah, basically suppressors cut your noise to an extent. The common misconception is that they're nearly inaudible when they are quite loud. The reasons people acquire permits for them is they allow hunting with less noise polution, reduce the need for ear pro with certain calibers and also reduce muzzle flash in say, night shooting or a home defense scenario.

 

I believe the reason Rathlord has a pretty firm stance on suppressors is because no matter how they are implemented, they are going to make a big difference to the metagame if they have any effect at all.

[silents429]

Waiting for the day Devs say no supressors...

[Fj45]

Yeah, basically suppressors cut your noise to an extent. The common misconception is that they're nearly inaudible when they are quite loud. 

 

I hate that "plop plop" in movies.

[Rathlord]

I blame it entirely on James Bond.

 

I dunno, the largest complain I have about this is the combination of the rarity of them and that they're made for specific guns. We have some wiggle room in this kind of stuff already (only one firearm in each "class," all ammo fits all weapons) and those are concessions for gameplay that I do understand. But because of the big combination of factors facing suppressors, it crosses the line for me of being "way too unrealistic" for either reasonable suspension of disbelief or gameplay concessions to cover it.

[Fj45]

I blame it entirely on James Bond.

 

I dunno, the largest complain I have about this is the combination of the rarity of them and that they're made for specific guns. We have some wiggle room in this kind of stuff already (only one firearm in each "class," all ammo fits all weapons) and those are concessions for gameplay that I do understand. But because of the big combination of factors facing suppressors, it crosses the line for me of being "way too unrealistic" for either reasonable suspension of disbelief or gameplay concessions to cover it.

 

Gota agree with you here, there's all this AND the fact that Dev time could be spent on better things.

[John_234]

I blame it entirely on James Bond.

 

I dunno, the largest complain I have about this is the combination of the rarity of them and that they're made for specific guns. We have some wiggle room in this kind of stuff already (only one firearm in each "class," all ammo fits all weapons) and those are concessions for gameplay that I do understand. But because of the big combination of factors facing suppressors, it crosses the line for me of being "way too unrealistic" for either reasonable suspension of disbelief or gameplay concessions to cover it.

It's why I personally support being able to manufacture them in the lategame. We've historically made them in tiny workshops hidden in apartments, after all.

[Fj45]

 

I blame it entirely on James Bond.

 

I dunno, the largest complain I have about this is the combination of the rarity of them and that they're made for specific guns. We have some wiggle room in this kind of stuff already (only one firearm in each "class," all ammo fits all weapons) and those are concessions for gameplay that I do understand. But because of the big combination of factors facing suppressors, it crosses the line for me of being "way too unrealistic" for either reasonable suspension of disbelief or gameplay concessions to cover it.

It's why I personally support being able to manufacture them in the lategame. We've historically made them in tiny workshops hidden in apartments, after all.

 

 

And then you have it blow up in your face. Literally.

[garand102]

Why not add .22 rifles/handguns they're not as loud as most guns and .22 rounds are the most common in the world but im sure ammo would still be hard to come by since its end of the world and all.

[Fj45]

Why not add .22 rifles/handguns they're not as loud as most guns and .22 rounds are the most common in the world but im sure ammo would still be hard to come by since its end of the world and all.

 

I'm pretty sure this was already discussed.

[nokinobu]

After playing around in sandbox, for people who wanna imagine they have hollywood suppressors can just turn down zombie hearing to low and they get the desired effect. Hoping with that that this topic can be stopped, all in all i agree with rath about it being a stretch to find these. Wait for a mod if you 'must' have it.

Edit: there alteady is a mod out that lets you use pillows as silencers there are prob more, if you want it added you will find the mod providing it.

[John_234]

 

 

I blame it entirely on James Bond.

 

I dunno, the largest complain I have about this is the combination of the rarity of them and that they're made for specific guns. We have some wiggle room in this kind of stuff already (only one firearm in each "class," all ammo fits all weapons) and those are concessions for gameplay that I do understand. But because of the big combination of factors facing suppressors, it crosses the line for me of being "way too unrealistic" for either reasonable suspension of disbelief or gameplay concessions to cover it.

It's why I personally support being able to manufacture them in the lategame. We've historically made them in tiny workshops hidden in apartments, after all.

 

 

And then you have it blow up in your face. Literally.

 

In some cases, yea but that's just part of R&D. There's a lot of knowledge about these things that we can still rediscover and make use of. Suppressors only make sense given how heavily we might have to rely on guns.

[Rathlord]

I think at the end of the day most people don't have a damn clue how a suppressor works, though. Sure people might try, and they might even manage to attach something sturdy to the end of a gun, but I'd guess that most of the 'average' population of the U.S., including gun owners, have no idea how they actually work. 

[Imadjentleman]

Seeing some misinformation so I'm going to throw my two cents in:

Suppressors (and all NFA items) require a $200 tax stamp. Most quality .22lr suppressors are between $300-$500. They would be rare, but not so much so that it would be a waste to include in the game as .22 is incredibly popular and you would be hard pressed to find many gun owners without a .22. Sub-sonic .22lr is also very popular and should not be written off as virtually non-existent. Some ghetto PVC suppressors can be made by less experienced individuals with obviously less durability and effectiveness. Another suppression method is using an oil can. A company has made a threaded attachment to adapt to an oil can to use as a suppressor and is relatively effective and thus has gained more popularity. If machinery skills are being considered for the game it should be an option to machine suppressors. Most occupational machinists are capable of making good quality suppressors. A subsonic .22 fitted with a suppressor is literally about as quiet as a BB gun decibel wise. This is obviously where realism and "making the game too easy" conflict, which is why you never see anyone in a diver's suit running around with a subsonic .22 on The Walking Dead or any other zombie pop culture. I think they would need some tweaking for game balance, but not to the MGS3 point of suppressors falling apart after 20 shots and not sounding like kitten queefs (especially with larger calibers). Also, regular ball ammo for .45 ACP IS subsonic which is why suppressors are very effective for them.

[Rathlord]

They would be rare, but not so much so that it would be a waste to include in the game as .22 is incredibly popular and you would be hard pressed to find many gun owners without a .22. Sub-sonic.

 

I'm a gun owner from a family of (fairly avid) gun owners and afaik we've never owned any subsonic ammunition. There's really no reason to unless you're worried about noise pollution. I think you're vastly overstating how many subsonic rounds are in circulation.

 

 

 

 Some ghetto PVC suppressors can be made by less experienced individuals with obviously less durability and effectiveness.

 

The problem with this, as I've said before, is that it requires foreknowledge of how suppressors work. You're meant to be an average guy, not a crazy survivalist. The vast majority of people (even gun owners) don't have a damn clue how suppressors work except that they stick off of the front of guns in James Bond movies.

 

 

 

Another suppression method is using an oil can.

 

I hate that YouTube video they made. The sound has been doctored on it quite obviously (not that it doesn't work at all, but it's scummy and has a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about all kinds of blabbering about it). This would be pretty heavily inviable for the game for several reasons; you're unlikely to find the attachment, if you did you probably wouldn't know what it was, even if you did AND you knew what it was, an oil filter wouldn't last that long. Even the machined ones tend to wear our after a few hundred shots (or at the least need very specific maintenance to keep in working order). They sell professionally made plastic ones and even they don't even last that long.

 

Sidenote: Owning one of their converters without a tax stamp is liable to get you a felony. Just food for thought on how common they actually are- if people were thinking about getting a tax stamp for a "silencer" (as the U.S. government feels the need to call it), they'd likely just get a real one.

 

 

 

If machinery skills are being considered for the game it should be an option to machine suppressors.

 

First, takes very specific equipment and second takes very specific skill set. Again, this game is about normal people, and I guarantee you the combination of professional machinist with machine shop and the know how and the material to make a suppressor in Muldraugh, KY is approximately zero.

 

 

 

A subsonic .22 fitted with a suppressor is literally about as quiet as a BB gun decibel wise.

 

Not entirely accurate. It is quite quiet, but the muzzle gases are still being expelled regardless of the suppressor and it still makes enough racket to be heard from probably ~ 1 mile away. Obviously, not nearly as loud as an unsuppressed high powered rifle, but it irks me to see people overstate its effectiveness.

 

quote: MGS3 point of suppressors falling apart after 20 shots

 

I haven't played MGS3, but I'm sure those are professional suppressors and would last much longer. That being said, the home made variety (even the best, like the oil filter) would fail in 20 or less to the point you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

 

 

Overall I agree with your general sentiment and your points are mostly factual, but based on some quick numbers less than 7/1000th of a percent (or approx. .0007%) of Kentuckians own a suppressor. As of a few years ago, less than 3,000 were registered to the entire state. I hope this shuts down this discussion once and for all.

[Fj45]

Can't really see this going any further, maybe lock it?