Rework Nutrition System

[Demonic_Kat]

Since the introduction of berries I've noticed I don't really need food that much anymore. I can eat one berry a day usually, and bring my nutrition level up to "slightly fed".

 

I'm thinking there should be a nutrition gauge with a threshold that must be met for you to receive the bonuses or restrictions of each moodle. The gauge should be visible to the player, because when you're hungry, you usually know it.

 

Cigarettes could also play into the game more. They could be used as an appetite suppressant.

[Suomiboi]

But, you already know when you're hungy from the moodle. What you don't know, IRL or in game, is on a scale 1-100 exactly how hungry you are and that's why there's a moodle and not a gauge. The system already works pretty much like you're describing, the exact numbers just aren't shown to you.

 

The fact that you can get full from eating one berry a day isn't a requirement for a new mechanic, it's a balance issue. I do however agree that the system as a whole would benefit from some other additions, but not because of balancing issues related to hunger.

[deprav]

I do think the nutrition system needs some deeper tweaks.

First, strenght bonus for eating is kind of absurd : irl, you don't suddenly become 50% stronger than you were 10mins before because you just ate an entire pot of soup... if anything, your stomach would hurt as hell and you'd go to sleep. The only viable bonus I can see when you're well fed is a moral boost, it must feel good to eat a real hot meal during the zombie apocalypse.

You don't get a boost when drinking, you don't get a boost when sleeping, so why you'd get a boost when eating ? Those are physical needs, not anabolitic steroids ;o

So, there should be 2 options : You're either fed, no green moodlet, no strenght bonus, but you're OK. Or you're hungry and starving, red moodlet, and the closer you get from starving to death the weaker / more tired / depressed / insane you become, and your stomach hurts.
I may see a 3rd option : you ate too much, you're in pain and need to take a nap, but you're happy ^^



Also, the closer from "starving to death" you are, the more "real meals" you'll need to eat to get back to your normal physical state and get rid of all your penalties. Like if you're about to die from starvation, lets say after a week of eating regular nutritive meals, your "starving" level goes back to zero. But if you don't, after you've digested your last meal, you'll quickly reach a critical starving level again.
Which means you need to eat regulary to avoid penalties instead of just one meal magically fixing your starvation problem !

[uberevan]

It'll be nice when I can no longer live solely on Cabbages and Potato soup

[Demonic_Kat]

In reference to the system working exactly as I stated, it doesn't. If I were at 1 on a scale from 1 to 100 and eat a berry, I shouldn't jump to 70, which is what the moodles dictate that I do. I could gather 100 berries eat one a day, just to keep from obtaining the "starving" moodle and survive. If you are hungry, eating one berry isn't going to help you be satiated, it'll most likely make you more hungry. Eating 50 berries, on the other hand, may help with your hunger issue.

 

Away from my computer, I have been peckish, hungry, very hungry, and literally starving. There is a noticeable difference in all levels. The difference is that you cannot connect with a character in game to 'feel' the hunger. This leads the moodle to lack descriptiveness in my opinion and show a distinct lack of scale. A balance for this would be a more distinctive scale in which the difference between "-100 to hunger" and "-2 to hunger" actually means something.

 

Deprav made a good point as well: the scale is currently inverted. Eating shouldn't give you boosts, it should keep you normal. If the scale was inverted to reflect this, I think a scale on hunger level would be even more important. The possibility of overeating is as detrimental as under eating; one could technically eat to death.

 

As for the long term nutritional requirements, I think that both Suo, and Deprav's ideas would mesh well together, however it would, for me, be a game killer. Away from the computer I eat well and exercise. I do not want to spend my time playing a game that simulates basic life functions as that. I might as well play the Sims! (haha... sorry if any of you like the Sims)

[deprav]

I do like your scale idea, but I think it should be a "hidden" factor, you could guess your hunger situation depending on moodlet but an actual scale with numbers isn't in the general spirit of the game imo !

Also, I don't understand how our suggestions would be game breaking ^^ The gameplay would pretty much stay the same, you wouldn't have to eat more or differently, but period of famine & food shortage would feel much more gloomy and dangerous than they do right now. It's actually pretty close from your own suggestion imo, except the scale isn't readable but implied.

And I know for a fact most of the devs love The Sims ! it's actually an important inspiration for project zomboid, which is supposed to be a "life simulation in a zombie apocalypse, in which you'll die" ;p

[King jjwpenguin]

I agree with the fact that it shouldn't be exact but it should be a little more accurate instead of slightly fed and then well fed. Also my character can eat everything in 20 fridges then not sick. I think if you eat to much than you should be slowed down or feel sick. Just an opinion.

[nasKo]

It'll be nice when I can no longer live solely on Cabbages and Potato soup

I don't think it'll come that far. At least I hope so.

You don't need vitamins to survive.

[Suomiboi]

You don't need vitamins to survive.

Sorry, but I can't quite get if you're serious or if you're talking about the game atm? If it's about the game or sarcasm, disregard below.

These are diseases which ultimately lead to death and are caused specifically by vitamin deficiency or in other words not having enough certain vitamin: Scurvy, Beriberi, Pellagra, Ariboflavinosis, Vitamin K deficiency. All of those are easily treated by eating properly, but are diseases that have killed thousands in developing countries and in times when food has been scarce, aka  a zombie apocalypse. I see no harm in simulating that, if it's easily counterrable. All of those diseases are the result of an overly simple diet or easily put eating only one sort of food for a prolonged period.

 

Wheter this should be in the game is a wholly opinion related debate and it could perhaps work better as a mod or a toggleable feature (eg. hunger system:easy/medium/hardcore, compare to reloading.)...

[uberevan]

It would be pretty cool to add some food borne illnesses or food-lacking illnesses, I'd love to see those added to the game.  Like Salmonella and E Coli from wild game you catch and don't cook thoroughly.  Also, if your cooking level is higher you're less likely to undercook your food and get a disease.

[King jjwpenguin]

It would be pretty cool to add some food borne illnesses or food-lacking illnesses, I'd love to see those added to the game.  Like Salmonella and E Coli from wild game you catch and don't cook thoroughly.  Also, if your cooking level is higher you're less likely to undercook your food and get a disease.

I agree but also in conclusion i think there should be poisonous foods out in the wild which can be anything from berries to flowers to mushrooms. Then there could be moss which adds a way to get decently clean water and its best after it rains. Also some sort of way to plant trees. I have wanted to grow trees near my base after i clear out miles around it but yea that is off topic.l agree with you on the illnesses and i also think that eating rotten foods can do a little bit of harm too. 

[Demonic_Kat]

 

I do like your scale idea, but I think it should be a "hidden" factor, you could guess your hunger situation depending on moodlet but an actual scale with numbers isn't in the general spirit of the game imo !

Also, I don't understand how our suggestions would be game breaking ^^ The gameplay would pretty much stay the same, you wouldn't have to eat more or differently, but period of famine & food shortage would feel much more gloomy and dangerous than they do right now. It's actually pretty close from your own suggestion imo, except the scale isn't readable but implied.

And I know for a fact most of the devs love The Sims ! it's actually an important inspiration for project zomboid, which is supposed to be a "life simulation in a zombie apocalypse, in which you'll die" ;p

 

I don't mean that it would break the game, I said it would kill the game for me. I don't want to spend my time (which is hours playing PZ) making sure that I ate enough vitamin C today so I don't get scurvy, not to mention all the other essential vitamins. I want to find something to eat, eat it, and kill things.

 

Logically speaking, humans will adapt to whatever diet they're on anyways. Yes, there are specific things we NEED but you can still put a very long stretch on getting said mineral.

 

Viri like E.Coli and salmonella will be almost 100% fatal without access to medical attention. We take that for granted now, but these viri would be just as deadly as getting bitten. Is that something else that we want to be introduced? If so, then heck, even the flu would most likely kill us.

 

Also, you don't need to "take" vitamins to survive is what I think he meant. Potatoes and other ground borne vegetables contain massive amounts of vitamins we need to live.

[EnigmaGrey]

If a relatively complex nutrition system is put in the game, it's imparative that it works over the long term (months/years instead of minutes), unlike the current food system, otherwise it'll be exactly as you say, Demonic: making sure you ate enough X every day, rather than ensuring you have a balanced diet over a period of time.

[deprav]

 

 

I do like your scale idea, but I think it should be a "hidden" factor, you could guess your hunger situation depending on moodlet but an actual scale with numbers isn't in the general spirit of the game imo !

Also, I don't understand how our suggestions would be game breaking ^^ The gameplay would pretty much stay the same, you wouldn't have to eat more or differently, but period of famine & food shortage would feel much more gloomy and dangerous than they do right now. It's actually pretty close from your own suggestion imo, except the scale isn't readable but implied.

And I know for a fact most of the devs love The Sims ! it's actually an important inspiration for project zomboid, which is supposed to be a "life simulation in a zombie apocalypse, in which you'll die" ;p

 

I don't mean that it would break the game, I said it would kill the game for me. I don't want to spend my time (which is hours playing PZ) making sure that I ate enough vitamin C today so I don't get scurvy, not to mention all the other essential vitamins. I want to find something to eat, eat it, and kill things.

 

Logically speaking, humans will adapt to whatever diet they're on anyways. Yes, there are specific things we NEED but you can still put a very long stretch on getting said mineral.

 

Viri like E.Coli and salmonella will be almost 100% fatal without access to medical attention. We take that for granted now, but these viri would be just as deadly as getting bitten. Is that something else that we want to be introduced? If so, then heck, even the flu would most likely kill us.

 

Also, you don't need to "take" vitamins to survive is what I think he meant. Potatoes and other ground borne vegetables contain massive amounts of vitamins we need to live.

 

Oh yeah you were talking about vitamins, I thought you were talking about my idea !

I'm not for vitamins & perfect nutrition either : imo the game's difficulty should kill you before you do get serious health troubles because you have a vitamin deficiency or something. I just want a better hunger & starvation management.

As for bacterias and deadly food/water diseases, and even the flu killing you ; I'm personally all for it. Making sure you eat cooked food, making sure you drink drinkable water, making sure you're not hanging too close to sick people if you don't have any antibiotics etc... I think those are all interesting gameplay elements as they represent direct concerns/threats, which "dietetic meals" aren't.

Plus, in a survival game you're expected to have trouble finding food, not trouble finding veggies to eat with your stack of bbq ribs, and if you end up sitting on a moutain of chips to survive for months, considering the conditions of survival, you can considere yourself lucky... hence why I think they should focus on a somewhat "realistic" depiction of starvation instead of dietetic concerns.

 

[Demonic_Kat]

I got all the way to the end of your post and all I could think of was "mmm chips". I think you've got a good point there. Perhaps an introduction of having to boil collected water or something like that.

 

Though you should know that the flu and other like illnesses are caused by viri and antibiotics wouldn't help.

[King jjwpenguin]

There should be little more of a disease or symptoms in the game from more causes than being in the rain. Also you should be able to store water in the bath tub for long times to make it last but doing so could cause mold to grow in the house as well as moss and such near the water.

[uberevan]

E Coli and Salmonella are actually bacterial infections FYI

I would like to see the character not necessarily always be killed by vitamin deficiency, but be better at recovering from illness when caught up on all their healthy meals.  

 

If you do your research on food borne illness, your body is capable of dealing with those kinds of infections, so long as you don't ignore your symptoms for too long.  The treatments for E Coli and Salmonella in particular are basically double the usual amount of water (so basically you could make your player drink extra water) and eat low fiber foods (so stick with toast, rice, or eggs until your symptoms are gone)

[King jjwpenguin]

I think the in game effect should be that it slows down recovery time but doesn't take away anything or when it becomes severe it takes your health down to 2/3 of the maximum health. That way it has some drawbacks of not paying attention but nothing to major that it becomes a HUGE issue.

[uberevan]

I think the in game effect should be that it slows down recovery time but doesn't take away anything or when it becomes severe it takes your health down to 2/3 of the maximum health. That way it has some drawbacks of not paying attention but nothing to major that it becomes a HUGE issue.

The thing is, your health IS a major issue.  If I get ebola I'm not gonna be like "whoa that sucks better continue my daily life till it gets bad".  If you get some kind of problem with your health, you can't just ignore it.  Dehydration kills people very easily with these diseases and they don't even realize they're dehydrated.  They are very dangerous if you leave them alone  That's why I say if you notice bad symptoms you should do something about them because otherwise you won't end up alive...This is a simulator and these sicknesses are very real and don't just bring your well being to two-thirds your average strength.

 

However, I think it would be fine if the sickness doesn't get really bad quickly, IE you have a sickness you have a few days before serious treatment is needed, you can just prevent it from getting worse by treating it early.

[Demonic_Kat]

There should be little more of a disease or symptoms in the game from more causes than being in the rain. Also you should be able to store water in the bath tub for long times to make it last but doing so could cause mold to grow in the house as well as moss and such near the water.

 

I think getting sick from the rain is complete B.S. You don't get sick from being wet, you get sick from picking up bacteria/viri from other people or objects.

 

E Coli and Salmonella are actually bacterial infections FYI

I would like to see the character not necessarily always be killed by vitamin deficiency, but be better at recovering from illness when caught up on all their healthy meals.  

 

If you do your research on food borne illness, your body is capable of dealing with those kinds of infections, so long as you don't ignore your symptoms for too long.  The treatments for E Coli and Salmonella in particular are basically double the usual amount of water (so basically you could make your player drink extra water) and eat low fiber foods (so stick with toast, rice, or eggs until your symptoms are gone)

First off thanks for the correction. Simple mistake (my bad).

 

I don't say that the bacterial infections and viral infections would be fatal because of the way you get over them, but for the simple fact that most of the time you're incapacitated during your illness.

 

Just like how Kate broke her leg, she was not able to care for herself. If the only water Kate has available is downstairs and baldspot has been gone for a week (presumably dead), then Kate must drag herself down the stairs to get the water. Making noise, damaging herself further... etc. If you're sick then you may be in the same predicament.

 

This actually made me think that it would be really really bad if they introduced sanctions for "broken legs" or debilitating sicknesses in single player mode. It's a death sentence. And that thought's taking me to a separate suggestion thread!

that thought's taking me to a separate suggestion thread!

 

[Kajin]

 

There should be little more of a disease or symptoms in the game from more causes than being in the rain. Also you should be able to store water in the bath tub for long times to make it last but doing so could cause mold to grow in the house as well as moss and such near the water.

 

I think getting sick from the rain is complete B.S. You don't get sick from being wet, you get sick from picking up bacteria/viri from other people or objects.

Eh, you don't get sick from the rain so much as getting cold from the rain gives your body just the sucker punch needed for a preexisting illness to jump to the forefront and actually make you sick. Your body is always fighting off some kind of infection or another and being wet and cold certainly doesn't help with that.

[Demonic_Kat]

Hey moved this to a different thread since it went off in a haywire way. Though yes, you're right, but going out for a stroll in the rain never made me sick.

[EnigmaGrey]

There should be little more of a disease or symptoms in the game from more causes than being in the rain. Also you should be able to store water in the bath tub for long times to make it last but doing so could cause mold to grow in the house as well as moss and such near the water.

 

I think getting sick from the rain is complete B.S. You don't get sick from being wet, you get sick from picking up bacteria/viri from other people or objects.

Eh, you don't get sick from the rain so much as getting cold from the rain gives your body just the sucker punch needed for a preexisting illness to jump to the forefront and actually make you sick. Your body is always fighting off some kind of infection or another and being wet and cold certainly doesn't help with that.

Even though I somewhat agree . . . swimming pools, cold/cool showers, working/walking in cool weather .etc

Complex issue.

[uberevan]

Though it is true that disease can hinder you, that's only late stage.  That's why it's important to take action early on.  That's also why it's important to have a person in your group that's good with treating illness

[King jjwpenguin]

 

There should be little more of a disease or symptoms in the game from more causes than being in the rain. Also you should be able to store water in the bath tub for long times to make it last but doing so could cause mold to grow in the house as well as moss and such near the water.

 

I think getting sick from the rain is complete B.S. You don't get sick from being wet, you get sick from picking up bacteria/viri from other people or objects.

 

 

I wasn't saying that getting sick from rain was a good idea at all. i was saying there should be some more ways of getting sick besides the rain. I agree its not the best system but it will keep my happy for a good 10-20 updates. I mean its not to big of a concern but i was just saying there should be more ways to get sick that don't include rain.