Florin

To me, it reads as if his complaint is that the new system forces you to sit down to relax instead of just recovering slowly; i.e. activities having a longer effect on you. Would mirror my own experience, dragging the gameplay down and just not appearing fun to me. That's without trying to kill "hordes", just a few stragglers both with a leveled up character (which you can't argue should happen) and with a fresh start.

When I use a wet towel, and it basically becomes wet forever, never drying out.. I kinda just scratch my head and eventually throw it away for more space.

Highly unrealistic and not practical.

I think the Z are now, in the testing of 30.8, the best they have ever been. However, I also think the new exertion system is... not cool. It makes the game less fun, as I couldn't even run a tenth of what I normally do, with multiple points in the physical skills. Runs from the west farm to either Muldraugh or West Point have become almost impossible. Running, slaying, building and other physical activities just aren't as fun.

I'm glad there are changes coming to the exertion system.
 
personally i think tiredness should be a 3 tier system.
The short term effect should be body heat, sweat and short of breath. quick to build up and quick to recover. The mid term effect should be hunger. slower to build up but a quick snack will sort it out. The long term effect should be tiredness. slowly builds up over from activity as well as time. tiredness and hunger will set in over time no matter what but physical exertion will accelerate the effects.

Ok, as I said, sorry, It's my first post... 
I will try to clarify what I have in mind, but, btw, I usually play sandbox anyway...
 
I started thinking about it when I've seen the screen shot from the build 30 menu. There you can see that they added feel more options because of Erosion (an awesome mod, by the way).
 
So, what I've meant was something like this:
On the Zombie Lore panel, add the following options:
 
Day/Night difference? (If yes, opens the following):
Day behavior:
Movement Speed options (the ones we already have).
Movement Smartness options (same)
Memory (same)
Senses (same)
Hide indoors or not
Hording...
 
Night behavior: 
Again you chose from the same options, allowing you to make it harder at night and easier at day, or the opposite.
 
Zobification infectivity:
Options like: <There is no rest>, everybody is infected, but you only zombify after death (more interesting with NPCs and multiplayer).
 <It's a matter of time>, everybody is infected, meaning that you clock is ticking.
 <You can save yourself, not your arm>, Infection by scratches and bites, but can be avoided if you amputate fast enough.
 <Classical> The vanilla setting for infection.
 <We are all doomed> We are all infected, bites and scratches speed-up the process unless the related limb is properly severed, and  when you die, you will come back also (everything above put together).
 
Zombification "extras":
Do zombies mutate (like in resident evil)? If so, it means that in sometime they will become something worst (smarter, stronger, and more deadly... think about something jumping from a roof, or spilling goo on you).
Time for mutation: How long it takes for the regular Z's become worst.
Mutation Rate: from, i don't know, 20 to 100% of the Z's, how many will randomly mutate.
 
Decomposition:
Does it eventually kill the zombies (the ones that don't mutate, if the above is true)?
How long it takes?
Does it effect then in any means? (here are the vanilla options for decomposition).
 
I know that probably there are thing up there that are unfeasible, but, I hope I've explained my thoughts now...
If its still unclear, or it should be in the mods section, just tell me.
If its ridiculous, please, just pretend you've never seen this post. I prefer to die not knowing it was stupid...

I hope you're being ironic. If not, here.
 
As for the rest of your post, it doesn't seem to address much of what I actually write anyway, so there may be little point in my repeating what I've already said, but I at least am prepared to post in good faith, so here's a summary: I don't want to kill everything. I never play this way. I do want unavoidable fights to be fun and not to devolve into a tedious exercise of walking back and forth between the nearest chair or bed until the zombies are all gone. As for walking between Muldraugh and West Point, it takes 23 hours of nonstop walking to do this in PZ. You shouldn't be able to walk for 23 hours anyway, because being exhausted should make you pass out, but in any case, it isn't a major challenge, it's half an hour of walking along a road occasionally altering your course to sidestep a zombie. It's another case of added tedium for no additional challenge. Maybe it would've been better if other forms of locomotion had been added before sprinting was nerfed, but that's not the case.
 
I don't want the game to be easy, or an 'arcade action game', but I don't like to see changes made in the name of challenge adding unnecessary tedium to the game instead.
 
I'm not impressed with the reaction I've received to criticism of the game from others here. It should go without saying that I love PZ, but people who come to the forum to say that they feel a new feature detracts from the game should not be told off and talked down to, least of all by a moderator.

I hope you're being ironic. If not, here.
 
As for the rest of your post, it doesn't seem to address much of what I actually write anyway, so there may be little point in my repeating what I've already said, but I at least am prepared to post in good faith, so here's a summary: I don't want to kill everything. I never play this way. I do want unavoidable fights to be fun and not to devolve into a tedious exercise of walking back and forth between the nearest chair or bed until the zombies are all gone. As for walking between Muldraugh and West Point, it takes 23 hours of nonstop walking to do this in PZ. You shouldn't be able to walk for 23 hours anyway, because being exhausted should make you pass out, but in any case, it isn't a major challenge, it's half an hour of walking along a road occasionally altering your course to sidestep a zombie. It's another case of added tedium for no additional challenge. Maybe it would've been better if other forms of locomotion had been added before sprinting was nerfed, but that's not the case.
 
I don't want the game to be easy, or an 'arcade action game', but I don't like to see changes made in the name of challenge adding unnecessary tedium to the game instead.
 
I'm not impressed with the reaction I've received to criticism of the game from others here. It should go without saying that I love PZ, but people who come to the forum to say that they feel a new feature detracts from the game should not be told off and talked down to, least of all by a moderator.

In that antiseptic isn't exactly rare in the game, treating an infected wound with regular maggots would probably make it worse, and I would fall off my chair laughing if I found an item in the game called "medical grade maggots".

I'm gonna say that quite rare isn't even a term for them, that their basically non-existent in homes.
 
Went to try the new canning system, set sandbox to no zombies, all loot to abundant, and took the lucky trait. I searched DOZENS of homes and I didn't find any at all. Sugar was findable, and the only vinegar bottles I found at all were at 2 Spiffo restaurants. Jars were no where to be found.
 
If in fact they can only be found in the mall, this is gonna be a problem, ESPECIALLY for multiplayer since these will be very useful once food is more balanced out. I doubt the first thing most people thought of when fleeing their home was "Get the canning supplies!!!!!!". They defiantly need to spawn in more spots, as they will be almost as vital as garbage bags are now eventually.
 
I understand that they should be rare finds in the city, but could you perhaps assign them as loot in the rural farm areas? People who grow crops are very likely to can their own food as well, so you should expect to find canning supplies there. Most department stores would have them as well. The mall shouldn't be the only significant source of these, the rural farms would make a lot of sense and allow alternate loot locations.
 
I know that food is gonna be rebalanced, but I also think there should be a renewable form of canning as well with pressure cookers for more advanced cooks to replace the current rotten food preserves we currently have in the game.

You see the result if you know charging is a thing. Most players, including myself, just initially assumed random health on zombies (is that the case?) was the sole reason for some of them going down quicker. When I first heard about charging swings I was skeptical because there was absolutely no clear indication of it in-game whatsoever.

or perhaps the negative ones buffed.
 
All the npc ones are free points
light drinker is a no brainer for free points
Hard of hearing means little to me since I don't need to hear a window thats being broken way down the street compared to one nearby me.
clumsy was another easy filler one
Hearty appetite has no meaning when theres almost no need to manage your food supply (Need a working winter that would disable "most" renewable food sources except for maybe more difficult fish to catch).
 
Right now its too easy to get free points, if you want to make the game challenging........
 
Remove the NPC ones until they are added into the game
Remove light drinker, serves zero purpose except free points
 
Others, I dunno. Unless Hard of hearing changes into deafness it has little impact on the game. Clumsy has never made much of a difference to me (just an easy way to nab resilience) and hearty appetite is another easy one until they re-balance food management.

Again, I don't understand what you're talking about. "Advocating for a system that, once you became moderately tired, would remove your ability to move faster than a sneak"? I'm not doing anything of the sort. I'm advocating for the old system, where exertion represented short term strain and could be recovered from by avoiding additional physical exertion. Right now it represents the same thing as the tiredness moodle, and when you get winded it's permanent until you spend time staring at the ceiling. I would not argue that characters didn't recover from exertion too quickly or easily in the old version, but this change makes it so that you never recover from it passively. The old system was sound, if in need of tweaking. You should recover passively from being winded. You shouldn't be indefinitely out of breath after exerting yourself until you go off somewhere quiet to meditate.
 
And I don't know what I can tell you about why the change isn't challenging that I haven't already said several times. Walking away from a bunch of zombies, locking yourself in one of the game's many houses and sitting on a chair for a while before returning to the fray is not hard. My current character is a fireman with athletic, strong, short tempered, brooding, light drinker, claustrophobic. I tried a character without athletic initially and rerolled after discovering how rapidly permanent exertion occurred.

This here. Fix it so that the group moves as more of a unit, and so that I can't pull a few zombies away because 1 or 2 were looking towards me while the other 10 had their backs turned. If ANY zombie is pulled in the group, there is no reason why the rest of the group should not be alerted. It would be natural for it to immediately moan upon sighting prey, thus alerting the others nearby. I think that zombies  should probably also be constantly pulling others to it as it chases prey, creating a VERY bad situation if you don't take care of them since you could accidentally form larger and larger hordes.

I hope you're being ironic. If not, here.
 
As for the rest of your post, it doesn't seem to address much of what I actually write anyway, so there may be little point in my repeating what I've already said, but I at least am prepared to post in good faith, so here's a summary: I don't want to kill everything. I never play this way. I do want unavoidable fights to be fun and not to devolve into a tedious exercise of walking back and forth between the nearest chair or bed until the zombies are all gone. As for walking between Muldraugh and West Point, it takes 23 hours of nonstop walking to do this in PZ. You shouldn't be able to walk for 23 hours anyway, because being exhausted should make you pass out, but in any case, it isn't a major challenge, it's half an hour of walking along a road occasionally altering your course to sidestep a zombie. It's another case of added tedium for no additional challenge. Maybe it would've been better if other forms of locomotion had been added before sprinting was nerfed, but that's not the case.
 
I don't want the game to be easy, or an 'arcade action game', but I don't like to see changes made in the name of challenge adding unnecessary tedium to the game instead.
 
I'm not impressed with the reaction I've received to criticism of the game from others here. It should go without saying that I love PZ, but people who come to the forum to say that they feel a new feature detracts from the game should not be told off and talked down to, least of all by a moderator.

It's not too hard to survive in the current build. Setup your first safehouse, clear a safe area around it. Now as you move towards your area, pull them in slowly (you can still rope a dope on occasion, pulling 1 or 3 from a pack if you do it properly). Continue like this the whole way towards whatever your clearing to. Rest in nearby chairs as needed.
 
If you do pull a bunch, let the fast ones separate from the pack and take them out. If your exhausted, constantly back peddle with charged shots waiting for a 1 shot to eventually grind out the hoard. Check every body for baseball bats and etc.
 
Traits I used
 
Construction worker
Strong
Lucky
Resillent
Clumsy
Hard of Hearing
Brooding
Short-Tempered
Light Drinker
 
I'm well over a week into the game and have already cleared a path into downtown Westpoint. I stopped because I didn't find a sledgehammer and Spade.
 
Until exertion can cause you to be slower than zombies (along with an AI fix to prevent rope a dope so they move as a group), they will never ever be able to kill you unless your EXTREMELY careless. Worst situation I got into was getting stuck in a group of 5 or so after being exerted, but eventually I was able to push them away and only managed to get 1 scratch (Lucky, Construction worker, and resilient are probably to blame for me not dying in that situation).

Yes, very good suggestion.

Well, I gotta say I am agreeing with Florin on this one. At the moment it is not really adding to the challenge rather than to the nuisance. I am all for the game to get harder but not at the cost of annoyance. These day should be over since the 90s.
 
The Zombie attraction system is a nice addition but does not work properly. I just watched 6 of them running in circles while I was standing about 10 m away from them. A 7th one came sprinting at me across, I don't know, 100 m, completely determined to go for me. He saw/heard me, while I was standing through trees, the 6 other zombies and across 100 m. This is not challenging, it is annoying. Just in my opionion.
Well, time to set up the Sandbox, since I fear that Survival won't be fun anymore.

@ Florin - to play "Devil's Advocate", I'd argue that it does make the game more challenging, in that you can no longer just slog your way through a fairly decent horde, without having to recover your energy etc. This forces you to re-think how you approach the game - will you try to take on those 8 zombies, do you have enough stamina/energy to escape if things turn ugly?
 
Previously, if I ran into a pack of zombies, I'd just draw them out, one or two at a time, kill them, rinse-repeat. Now, I have to really think about risk/reward a bit more, and sometimes have to decide to run, bypass, distract rather than just straight out attack. Whether this makes the game more or less enjoyable is obviously very much each players perception.
 
I do understand some of the people complaining about the latest changes - it's always frustrating when you can no longer play the way you always have, or the way you want to play. It's like someone's broken your favourite toy, and being a bit pissed off is probably quite normal.
 
I think some of the comments similar to "you're playing it wrong" can come across as insulting, but as an example, if you're finding it frustrating having to kill some zombies, then rest, then kill some more, then rest etc, then maybe you shouldn't be trying that tactic - if you're trying to clear a large horde as previously, then even though it's something you want to do, and enjoyed doing, it's unfortunately not how the Devs envision what the "Survival" mode should be...
 
The thing is, we're talking only about the Survival mode, which Lemmy explains in detail in his "wall of text" post:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/108600/discussions/0/617321352375649325/
 
If you enjoy playing a certain way, then why not request that things like endurance be an adjustable option in Sandbox mode? One problem I've noticed is there seems to be a stigma for some people if they "have" to play in Sandbox mode to get the game play style they enjoy - but that's what it's for. Some days, I don't feel like playing Survival, and want to play with say, insane numbers of weaker zombies, or sprinters, or with ridiculous amounts of weapons. I wouldn't suggest that they make that the "base" for Survival mode, since that's just how I want to play it.
 
Regardless, I'd hate to see people not want to post their concerns or criticisms, and I can guarantee that the Devs would feel the same - PZ has one of the best, and open forums/communities I've seen, and very active Devs. They will listen, and if something's genuinely broken, I have faith they'll fix it.
 
/2cents

EreWeGo - I usually avoid large fights, period, unless I need to clear out an area for my own security. Some fights are unavoidable unless you're constantly on the run, which really only keeps you out of combat for so long.
 
When I say the exertion changes do not add challenge, I mean that I've not yet lost a character in either 30.7 or 30.8 and that the same strategies I used for staying safe and avoiding death still work more or less as they always did. I can still escape any zombie by strolling away from them, and I can still hack a horde of zombies to pieces if I really want to, it just takes a very long time and a lot of resting.
 
I did ask that the exertion changes be made optional in one of my posts a few pages back. I'd be quite content with that. I prefer the game to model short and long term exhaustion as it did previously, but I'm willing to accept that I'm in the minority. I just don't enjoy mechanics that slow the pace of a game.

I hope you're being ironic. If not, here.
 
As for the rest of your post, it doesn't seem to address much of what I actually write anyway, so there may be little point in my repeating what I've already said, but I at least am prepared to post in good faith, so here's a summary: I don't want to kill everything. I never play this way. I do want unavoidable fights to be fun and not to devolve into a tedious exercise of walking back and forth between the nearest chair or bed until the zombies are all gone. As for walking between Muldraugh and West Point, it takes 23 hours of nonstop walking to do this in PZ. You shouldn't be able to walk for 23 hours anyway, because being exhausted should make you pass out, but in any case, it isn't a major challenge, it's half an hour of walking along a road occasionally altering your course to sidestep a zombie. It's another case of added tedium for no additional challenge. Maybe it would've been better if other forms of locomotion had been added before sprinting was nerfed, but that's not the case.
 
I don't want the game to be easy, or an 'arcade action game', but I don't like to see changes made in the name of challenge adding unnecessary tedium to the game instead.
 
I'm not impressed with the reaction I've received to criticism of the game from others here. It should go without saying that I love PZ, but people who come to the forum to say that they feel a new feature detracts from the game should not be told off and talked down to, least of all by a moderator.

That statement wasn't just complaining, it was my point that slowing things down doesn't increase the challenge or the enjoyment of the game. But I also said that in irritation at some of the remarks I had read shouting down any criticism of the patch.

I hope you're being ironic. If not, here.
 
As for the rest of your post, it doesn't seem to address much of what I actually write anyway, so there may be little point in my repeating what I've already said, but I at least am prepared to post in good faith, so here's a summary: I don't want to kill everything. I never play this way. I do want unavoidable fights to be fun and not to devolve into a tedious exercise of walking back and forth between the nearest chair or bed until the zombies are all gone. As for walking between Muldraugh and West Point, it takes 23 hours of nonstop walking to do this in PZ. You shouldn't be able to walk for 23 hours anyway, because being exhausted should make you pass out, but in any case, it isn't a major challenge, it's half an hour of walking along a road occasionally altering your course to sidestep a zombie. It's another case of added tedium for no additional challenge. Maybe it would've been better if other forms of locomotion had been added before sprinting was nerfed, but that's not the case.
 
I don't want the game to be easy, or an 'arcade action game', but I don't like to see changes made in the name of challenge adding unnecessary tedium to the game instead.
 
I'm not impressed with the reaction I've received to criticism of the game from others here. It should go without saying that I love PZ, but people who come to the forum to say that they feel a new feature detracts from the game should not be told off and talked down to, least of all by a moderator.

I hope you're being ironic. If not, here.
 
As for the rest of your post, it doesn't seem to address much of what I actually write anyway, so there may be little point in my repeating what I've already said, but I at least am prepared to post in good faith, so here's a summary: I don't want to kill everything. I never play this way. I do want unavoidable fights to be fun and not to devolve into a tedious exercise of walking back and forth between the nearest chair or bed until the zombies are all gone. As for walking between Muldraugh and West Point, it takes 23 hours of nonstop walking to do this in PZ. You shouldn't be able to walk for 23 hours anyway, because being exhausted should make you pass out, but in any case, it isn't a major challenge, it's half an hour of walking along a road occasionally altering your course to sidestep a zombie. It's another case of added tedium for no additional challenge. Maybe it would've been better if other forms of locomotion had been added before sprinting was nerfed, but that's not the case.
 
I don't want the game to be easy, or an 'arcade action game', but I don't like to see changes made in the name of challenge adding unnecessary tedium to the game instead.
 
I'm not impressed with the reaction I've received to criticism of the game from others here. It should go without saying that I love PZ, but people who come to the forum to say that they feel a new feature detracts from the game should not be told off and talked down to, least of all by a moderator.

From the perspective of someone who disagrees with the change and has tried very hard to explain why, it strikes me more as a case of those criticising it being dogpiled with every manner of down-talking from "you're doing it wrong" to "you are a cancer".

Like I've said, I don't want to kill every zombie. I just don't want fighting groups of zombies in the game to be reduced to a situation where you have to constantly duck into the nearest house for a rest after every two or three kills. It also shouldn't be as much of a pain in the ass as it is now to get from Muldraugh to West Point. Perhaps it was previously balanced for the assumption that people could sprint forever, or perhaps the default time dilation is off or the map just has too much empty space, but a six mile trip up the road shouldn't be a three day voyage that requires a tent to get through.