NPC Group System

[GodWaffle]

Hey Guys,

So I'm excited for the inclusion of NPC's and I've been thinking about groups of NPC's and some things about them, if one of the developers could answer or hint towards anything that'd be great Also I'd like to hear others' thoughts on things like this.

1. Will group leaders be different in any way? As in can an NPC leader be a bit of a psycho and try to steal from and kill other groups whilst an NPC leader of a different group may be an honest person who tries to build a life for people? If so, what happens if the player or another NPC disobeys them?

2. Can group leaders (including the player) create 'rules' for the group? Perhaps the leader wants no weapons on the inside of the compound, and if anyone is caught with a weapon they will be punished (again depends on the leader's attitude, slap on the wrist or execution?)

3. What is the extent of NPC 'settlements'? Will they only be able to take over and fortify buildings or will they be able to seal off streets or even construct a fort the way a player can? I can imagine this would be extremely difficult to develop, but it would be really cool if it was possible.

4. If I were to sneak into an NPC settlement and assassinate the leader, what would happen with the group? Will they 'elect' a new leader?

5. Will we see some crazy lone-wolf NPC's that are badasses but also insane? That would be interesting to see.

Anyway, that's all, just hoping for some information on this stuff.

Thanks,

-GodWaffle

[Lexx]

We have no hard facts on how this will work. But from what Lemmy has said in the past it sounds like this kind of thing would be ideal. You will have groups evolve based on personality traits. So a bunch of thugs would likely be most  prone to being raiders etc. For now though there isn't any hard facts about what the mechanics will be like 100%. Maybe Lemmy or someone else from the team will be able to give a fresh prospective on what isn't/is doable though. 

[Guest easy AI opponent]

Hi,

 

1-4: i think you expect far to much.

 

2: I am curious how you would communicate/ give orders to other NPCs as well. Would you give orders by elaborously clicking each member and choosing an order or would you have a menu were you check and uncheck boxes what their are allowed to do (looting, barricading, farming,...) like in dwarven fortress? How does this change the direction of the game?

 

4: These things are only unidirectional fun. What does the NPC hinder to equip his hammer, unbarricade your door, sneak into your bedroom and murder you in your sleep? Your "keen hearing"?

 

Also what does a NPC hinder to shoot you in the back (out of nowhere respectively your line of sight) and take your loot while you are running through the streets (just like the player would do)? Or even better, what if one your group members decide (dice some random generated numbers) that their are the better leader and stab you in the back once their get a chance? How will the game communcate that you are at risk to get assassinated? Would it not be incredible frustrating to repeatly die without no apparent reason? Imaging, if every 1/10 (or other %) of NPCs you come across shoot you on sight in your back and ruin your game, would this not lead you to kill every NPC you met as well? Remember what happens in DayZ multiplayer.

 

Thus, i think NPCs are incredible challenging to make funcional and a fun mechanic.

 

5: Should be possible.

 

However , all this reflects only my personal opinion and the Devs can prove me talking bullshit at any time.

[Tooks]

1-4: i think you expect far to much.

 

I don't know, I recall lemmy saying something along the lines of if you come across an already established group of survivors do not expect to waltz in and become their leader. For this to happen you'd need atleast a decent complexity to their AI and how they behave with each other. The way I understand it is that NPCs will have personalities (of which I imagine there would be a set amount) and their own individual trust levels etc and certain personalities will get on better with others and trust others (or not) so to become a group leader of an already established NPC group you'd need to prove your worth. Though I imagine it'd be possible to find NPCs not already in groups and recruit them and build up your own group. Though, I doubt group management is going to be easy and personally I'm going to be looking to join a group of NPCs as a follower not a leader.

[GodWaffle]

Hi,

 

1-4: i think you expect far to much.

 

2: I am curious how you would communicate/ give orders to other NPCs as well. Would you give orders by elaborously clicking each member and choosing an order or would you have a menu were you check and uncheck boxes what their are allowed to do (looting, barricading, farming,...) like in dwarven fortress? How does this change the direction of the game?

 

4: These things are only unidirectional fun. What does the NPC hinder to equip his hammer, unbarricade your door, sneak into your bedroom and murder you in your sleep? Your "keen hearing"?

 

Also what does a NPC hinder to shoot you in the back (out of nowhere respectively your line of sight) and take your loot while you are running through the streets (just like the player would do)? Or even better, what if one your group members decide (dice some random generated numbers) that their are the better leader and stab you in the back once their get a chance? How will the game communcate that you are at risk to get assassinated? Would it not be incredible frustrating to repeatly die without no apparent reason? Imaging, if every 1/10 (or other %) of NPCs you come across shoot you on sight in your back and ruin your game, would this not lead you to kill every NPC you met as well? Remember what happens in DayZ multiplayer.

 

Thus, i think NPCs are incredible challenging to make funcional and a fun mechanic.

 

5: Should be possible.

 

However , all this reflects only my personal opinion and the Devs can prove me talking bullshit at any time.

I think that getting shot should have a small chance of killing you instantly (headshot) and depending on where a bullet hits you you'll bleed out (if it's in the torso you're most likely going to die) however I think you should be able to survive gunshots, depending on where they hit (your shooting skill will determine this)

Personally I think this risk of getting stabbed in the back is what will make the NPC's interesting, will you trust people? Will you shoot on sight? If an NPC sneaks into your room and kills you, that's just what happens - in my opinion the game shouldn't make you any different from an NPC, anything you can do to them can be done to you without warning.

And I don't expect too much from the NPCs, I hope for these things but I understand the limitations, if done right these NPC's will be the most advanced in any game from what we're hearing.

-GodWaffle

 

1-4: i think you expect far to much.

 

I don't know, I recall lemmy saying something along the lines of if you come across an already established group of survivors do not expect to waltz in and become their leader. For this to happen you'd need atleast a decent complexity to their AI and how they behave with each other. The way I understand it is that NPCs will have personalities (of which I imagine there would be a set amount) and their own individual trust levels etc and certain personalities will get on better with others and trust others (or not) so to become a group leader of an already established NPC group you'd need to prove your worth. Though I imagine it'd be possible to find NPCs not already in groups and recruit them and build up your own group. Though, I doubt group management is going to be easy and personally I'm going to be looking to join a group of NPCs as a follower not a leader.

 

This.  I feel it would be a great way to play the game as not being the 'main character', going out on runs with others and having to make on-the-spot choices - You can imagine if you leave someone's best friend/partner to the zombies, that person would want to exact revenge on you (assuming they know you did it), and you'd have to deal with that.

[Tooks]

 

Hi,

 

1-4: i think you expect far to much.

 

2: I am curious how you would communicate/ give orders to other NPCs as well. Would you give orders by elaborously clicking each member and choosing an order or would you have a menu were you check and uncheck boxes what their are allowed to do (looting, barricading, farming,...) like in dwarven fortress? How does this change the direction of the game?

 

4: These things are only unidirectional fun. What does the NPC hinder to equip his hammer, unbarricade your door, sneak into your bedroom and murder you in your sleep? Your "keen hearing"?

 

Also what does a NPC hinder to shoot you in the back (out of nowhere respectively your line of sight) and take your loot while you are running through the streets (just like the player would do)? Or even better, what if one your group members decide (dice some random generated numbers) that their are the better leader and stab you in the back once their get a chance? How will the game communcate that you are at risk to get assassinated? Would it not be incredible frustrating to repeatly die without no apparent reason? Imaging, if every 1/10 (or other %) of NPCs you come across shoot you on sight in your back and ruin your game, would this not lead you to kill every NPC you met as well? Remember what happens in DayZ multiplayer.

 

Thus, i think NPCs are incredible challenging to make funcional and a fun mechanic.

 

5: Should be possible.

 

However , all this reflects only my personal opinion and the Devs can prove me talking bullshit at any time.

I think that getting shot should have a small chance of killing you instantly (headshot) and depending on where a bullet hits you you'll bleed out (if it's in the torso you're most likely going to die) however I think you should be able to survive gunshots, depending on where they hit (your shooting skill will determine this)

Personally I think this risk of getting stabbed in the back is what will make the NPC's interesting, will you trust people? Will you shoot on sight? If an NPC sneaks into your room and kills you, that's just what happens - in my opinion the game shouldn't make you any different from an NPC, anything you can do to them can be done to you without warning.

And I don't expect too much from the NPCs, I hope for these things but I understand the limitations, if done right these NPC's will be the most advanced in any game from what we're hearing.

-GodWaffle

 

1-4: i think you expect far to much.

 

I don't know, I recall lemmy saying something along the lines of if you come across an already established group of survivors do not expect to waltz in and become their leader. For this to happen you'd need atleast a decent complexity to their AI and how they behave with each other. The way I understand it is that NPCs will have personalities (of which I imagine there would be a set amount) and their own individual trust levels etc and certain personalities will get on better with others and trust others (or not) so to become a group leader of an already established NPC group you'd need to prove your worth. Though I imagine it'd be possible to find NPCs not already in groups and recruit them and build up your own group. Though, I doubt group management is going to be easy and personally I'm going to be looking to join a group of NPCs as a follower not a leader.

 

This.  I feel it would be a great way to play the game as not being the 'main character', going out on runs with others and having to make on-the-spot choices - You can imagine if you leave someone's best friend/partner to the zombies, that person would want to exact revenge on you (assuming they know you did it), and you'd have to deal with that.

 

 

I imagine going out with 2-3 npcs that people back at base give a shit about and coming back alone would cause a few of those npcs to lose trust with you despite what happened. They won't know because they werent there all they'll know is the people they care about are now dead and you're not

[GodWaffle]

I imagine going out with 2-3 npcs that people back at base give a shit about and coming back alone would cause a few of those npcs to lose trust with you despite what happened. They won't know because they werent there all they'll know is the people they care about are now dead and you're not

 

 

Yep, could be interesting to see what happens there, whether they'll just accept what happens, exile you from the group or try to kill you.  I wonder how player-NPC interaction will work, as in can we use dialogue trees to talk to them (these could be expanded over time or using mods) and thus build relationships, having a few people to back you up when the shit hits the fan.

I also imagine that becoming good friends with one of the NPC's and watching him/her get killed would be quite sad not just for the player character but for the player too, assuming you actually do form these relationships.

I also wonder, will these NPC's try to save you if you get caught in a bad situation? Say we're being chased by a horde and I have to run into a bathroom or something with only one entrance, will my NPC partners attempt to rescue me or leave me to the zombies? This is something I can imagine would invoke betrayal in the player, and if you can escape the situation it'll feel good to get revenge on the people who left you for dead.

[Guest easy AI opponent]

 

1-4: i think you expect far to much.

 

I don't know, ....

i know that it was announced but very little has been shown to be functional. And lemmy repeatly said how difficult NPCs are coded to be functional and not be broken....

 

Also 1-4 are rather complex AI actions which are often not very well implemented in games (for 1 i dont know).

 

For 2 what comes to mind are RPG games where you are forbidden to draw your weapon inside of the city/fortress (oblivion?). I always found it very odd how those NPCs reacted to me. Also how will you be otherwise punished? Will you go extensive lines of dialoge or a council trial? I doubt so.

 

For 3 will likely be a some kind of scripted base building?

 

4 likely their will be a new leader elected by stats?

 

 

I think that getting shot should have a small chance of killing you instantly (headshot) and depending on where a bullet hits you you'll bleed out (if it's in the torso you're most likely going to die) however I think you should be able to survive gunshots, depending on where they hit (your shooting skill will determine this)

I dont know but i think gun wounds can be pretty fatal without medical care? Also any kind of gun wound reduces your ability to escape/defend yourself especially when that shot comes unexpected out of nowhere?

 

Personally I think this risk of getting stabbed in the back is what will make the NPC's interesting, will you trust people? Will you shoot on sight? If an NPC sneaks into your room and kills you, that's just what happens - in my opinion the game shouldn't make you any different from an NPC, anything you can do to them can be done to you without warning.

And I don't expect too much from the NPCs, I hope for these things but I understand the limitations, if done right these NPC's will be the most advanced in any game from what we're hearing.

 

Yes getting stabbed by NPCs could be interesting but it depends how the game is communcateing such a decision. If it happens out of the blue by an automat which was one moment your friend and the other moment turns on you can feel rather erratic. This can be very frustratin especially when you invested a lot of time in your character.

"Will i trust peole? Will i shoot them on sight?" I think these questions were aready answered by DayZ, where killing on sight soon became the convention just because the risk in loosing your (time) investment was too frustrating, and remember these were real player characters and not inanimated NPCs.

 

Your are right the announced NPCs system is one of the most advanced we heared from and is about to be achieved by the smallest coding team possible (2 people).

 

 

This.  I feel it would be a great way to play the game as not being the 'main character', going out on runs with others and having to make on-the-spot choices - You can imagine if you leave someone's best friend/partner to the zombies, that person would want to exact revenge on you (assuming they know you did it), and you'd have to deal with that.

 

True, this could be interesting. With a leader giving out quests to improve the fort/safe house. Really like that.

[lemmy101]

Hey Guys,

So I'm excited for the inclusion of NPC's and I've been thinking about groups of NPC's and some things about them, if one of the developers could answer or hint towards anything that'd be great Also I'd like to hear others' thoughts on things like this.

1. Will group leaders be different in any way? As in can an NPC leader be a bit of a psycho and try to steal from and kill other groups whilst an NPC leader of a different group may be an honest person who tries to build a life for people? If so, what happens if the player or another NPC disobeys them?

2. Can group leaders (including the player) create 'rules' for the group? Perhaps the leader wants no weapons on the inside of the compound, and if anyone is caught with a weapon they will be punished (again depends on the leader's attitude, slap on the wrist or execution?)

3. What is the extent of NPC 'settlements'? Will they only be able to take over and fortify buildings or will they be able to seal off streets or even construct a fort the way a player can? I can imagine this would be extremely difficult to develop, but it would be really cool if it was possible.

4. If I were to sneak into an NPC settlement and assassinate the leader, what would happen with the group? Will they 'elect' a new leader?

5. Will we see some crazy lone-wolf NPC's that are badasses but also insane? That would be interesting to see.

Anyway, that's all, just hoping for some information on this stuff.

Thanks,

-GodWaffle

 

1. Initial version, to a limited extent. Characters have traits, so you could totally have a psycho leader. Once the system is in place it'll allow us to write 'event' scenes which are triggered under different circumstances. This could be anything from an argument about a can of beans, to a full blown mutiny. What we can add then will be more or less unlimited, or limited only by how much dialogue Will can actual pump out, as the system will play off character traits and relationships and it'll be pretty simple to add many condition triggered 'mini story' events that would weave together into a full blown personal survival narrative, but the first version will only have so much dialogue scripted for specific 'scenarios' that can occur within the group dynamic. Once the system is in place Will and Ringo can pretty much add as much as they can without hardly any coder involvement so its pretty exciting how quickly we could add this stuff.

 

2) One day perhaps, but not for a good while.

 

3) In the long run, we HAVE to make Woodbury style settlements possible, cause that'd be awesome. Before then NPCs will only use single buildings as safehouses.

 

4) Yes they elect a new leader, or the most popular / powerful one would assume control. Again its not clear how much dialogue will be there to represent these things in earlier versions.

 

5) Yes for sure.

[GodWaffle]

 

-Insert long post here-

 

 

I get where you're coming from, a lot of it seems highly unlikely but we've not heard a lot about NPC's really so you never know.

I think leaders should be chosen based on stats and of course personality, a very intimidating person who is kind of insane and also has good strength stats would probably be chosen over a nicer but weaker NPC, but only out of intimidation.

I agree about the dying in your sleep thing being very annoying, however realistically there would be a motivation for killing you unless it was someone from another group that had managed so somehow get past everyone (without waking you) and silently kill you, or if you'd done something to anger someone in your group (killing a friend/family member or leaving them for the dead) then you should careful enough to make sure your place of sleep is safe.

I don't think everything will be shoot-on-sight with NPC's as that is not the intention, you can have your guard a bit lower as they are designed to be teammates aswell as enemies, whereas with DayZ there's not a lot to do other than kill other people for supplies anyway.

Project Zomboid (when multiplayer arrives) should hopefully be different to DayZ, in that there is a lot more to do than simply get supplies, and zombies are more of a threat too.

Also, when you get shot, you will require medical attention (same way you need to with scratches/bites, except bullet wounds wouldn't be a death sentence unless you bleed to death or die from the injuries), but you'd need to bandage yourself and have medicine for it.

I think that before NPC's and mutiplayer really shine with PVP combat, the developers need to rework guns so that it's not auto-aim, perhaps increasing your aiming skill will give a tad auto-aim but the rest is manual aiming, that way it becomes less of a 'whoever clicks first' and more of a gunfight.  (Also need some cover mechanics such as crouching behind things)

 

Hey Guys,

So I'm excited for the inclusion of NPC's and I've been thinking about groups of NPC's and some things about them, if one of the developers could answer or hint towards anything that'd be great Also I'd like to hear others' thoughts on things like this.

1. Will group leaders be different in any way? As in can an NPC leader be a bit of a psycho and try to steal from and kill other groups whilst an NPC leader of a different group may be an honest person who tries to build a life for people? If so, what happens if the player or another NPC disobeys them?

2. Can group leaders (including the player) create 'rules' for the group? Perhaps the leader wants no weapons on the inside of the compound, and if anyone is caught with a weapon they will be punished (again depends on the leader's attitude, slap on the wrist or execution?)

3. What is the extent of NPC 'settlements'? Will they only be able to take over and fortify buildings or will they be able to seal off streets or even construct a fort the way a player can? I can imagine this would be extremely difficult to develop, but it would be really cool if it was possible.

4. If I were to sneak into an NPC settlement and assassinate the leader, what would happen with the group? Will they 'elect' a new leader?

5. Will we see some crazy lone-wolf NPC's that are badasses but also insane? That would be interesting to see.

Anyway, that's all, just hoping for some information on this stuff.

Thanks,

-GodWaffle

 

1. Initial version, to a limited extent. Characters have traits, so you could totally have a psycho leader. Once the system is in place it'll allow us to write 'event' scenes which are triggered under different circumstances. This could be anything from an argument about a can of beans, to a full blown mutiny. What we can add then will be more or less unlimited, or limited only by how much dialogue Will can actual pump out, as the system will play off character traits and relationships and it'll be pretty simple to add many condition triggered 'mini story' events that would weave together into a full blown personal survival narrative, but the first version will only have so much dialogue scripted for specific 'scenarios' that can occur within the group dynamic.

That sounds awesome, I'm assuming that means there will likely be a huge amount of NPC extension mods adding more of these 'events' and dialogues.

2) One day perhaps, but not for a good while.

Fair enough, I can imagine that being difficult to implement.

3) In the long run, we HAVE to make Woodbury style settlements possible, cause that'd be awesome. Before then NPCs will only use single buildings as safehouses.

That's fine, single buildings would be great anyway, glad to hear the Woodbury-style settlements are planned!

4) Yes they elect a new leader, or the most popular / powerful one would assume control. Again its not clear how much dialogue will be there to represent these things in earlier versions.

Ah, as I noted above do you think there will be an intimidation factor in new leaderships? Whereas it's not so much a choice for people to follow?

5) Yes for sure.

Awesome.

 

 

Thanks for the reply Lemmy, that's cleared a lot of things up for me and for other people I'm sure one more question: how exactly will players communicate with NPC's? Will it be like a dialogue-tree with choices (like Skyrim's system) or a lot simpler?

Thanks again!

[Guest easy AI opponent]

.... What we can add then will be more or less unlimited, or limited only by how much dialogue Will can actual pump out, as the system will play off character traits and relationships and it'll be pretty simple to add many condition triggered 'mini story' events that would weave together into a full blown personal survival narrative,....

 

Will there be any inidication about the position/relationship of my character towards the other NPCs and the realtionships of the other NPCs towards each other (similar like Zafehouse diaries?)? Or is this all about to be represented by dialogue? For me in games its often not understandable why the AI or NPCs makes certain decisions if there is not a proper inidcation (remember declaration of war by your longtime ally in CIV). I personally like the system of Crusader Kings 2 where your relationships depends on your traits and actions.

 

I think a similar system would fit great to PZ e.g.:

 

RIck (honest: +25, safed my back: +50, offered last cigarette: +10, killed spouse: -200): -115

[Gammlernoob]

 

Hey Guys,

So I'm excited for the inclusion of NPC's and I've been thinking about groups of NPC's and some things about them, if one of the developers could answer or hint towards anything that'd be great Also I'd like to hear others' thoughts on things like this.

1. Will group leaders be different in any way? As in can an NPC leader be a bit of a psycho and try to steal from and kill other groups whilst an NPC leader of a different group may be an honest person who tries to build a life for people? If so, what happens if the player or another NPC disobeys them?

2. Can group leaders (including the player) create 'rules' for the group? Perhaps the leader wants no weapons on the inside of the compound, and if anyone is caught with a weapon they will be punished (again depends on the leader's attitude, slap on the wrist or execution?)

3. What is the extent of NPC 'settlements'? Will they only be able to take over and fortify buildings or will they be able to seal off streets or even construct a fort the way a player can? I can imagine this would be extremely difficult to develop, but it would be really cool if it was possible.

4. If I were to sneak into an NPC settlement and assassinate the leader, what would happen with the group? Will they 'elect' a new leader?

5. Will we see some crazy lone-wolf NPC's that are badasses but also insane? That would be interesting to see.

Anyway, that's all, just hoping for some information on this stuff.

Thanks,

-GodWaffle

 

1. Initial version, to a limited extent. Characters have traits, so you could totally have a psycho leader. Once the system is in place it'll allow us to write 'event' scenes which are triggered under different circumstances. This could be anything from an argument about a can of beans, to a full blown mutiny. What we can add then will be more or less unlimited, or limited only by how much dialogue Will can actual pump out, as the system will play off character traits and relationships and it'll be pretty simple to add many condition triggered 'mini story' events that would weave together into a full blown personal survival narrative, but the first version will only have so much dialogue scripted for specific 'scenarios' that can occur within the group dynamic. Once the system is in place Will and Ringo can pretty much add as much as they can without hardly any coder involvement so its pretty exciting how quickly we could add this stuff.

 

2) One day perhaps, but not for a good while.

 

3) In the long run, we HAVE to make Woodbury style settlements possible, cause that'd be awesome. Before then NPCs will only use single buildings as safehouses.

 

4) Yes they elect a new leader, or the most popular / powerful one would assume control. Again its not clear how much dialogue will be there to represent these things in earlier versions.

 

5) Yes for sure.

 

GIVE THAT DEV A COOKIE !

[GodWaffle]

 

.... What we can add then will be more or less unlimited, or limited only by how much dialogue Will can actual pump out, as the system will play off character traits and relationships and it'll be pretty simple to add many condition triggered 'mini story' events that would weave together into a full blown personal survival narrative,....

 

Will there be any inidication about the position/relationship of my character towards the other NPCs and the realtionships of the other NPCs towards each other (similar like Zafehouse diaries?)? Or is this all about to be represented by dialogue? For me in games its often not understandable why the AI or NPCs makes certain decisions if there is not a proper inidcation (remember declaration of war by your longtime ally in CIV). I personally like the system of Crusader Kings 2 where your relationships depends on your traits and actions.

 

I think a similar system would fit great to PZ e.g.:

 

RIck (honest: +25, safed my back: +50, offered last cigarette: +10, killed spouse: -200): -115

 

 

I think a 'Relationships' tab could do this, similar to Rome 2: Total War's faction relationship system, where you can view all actions which have affected the relationship between you and them.  This could appear with your skills, health and info tabs.

Only problem with this is it makes things predictable, you have an indication that a person will do something based on your relationship level, this could be immersion-breaking in that sense.

But having something like you suggested:

Jim - Total Relationship Level: -120

Part of successful supply run: +20

Part of successful supply run: +20

Left Joanne behind: -100

Apologized about Joanne: +10

Gave supplies to Jim: +30

Left Jim behind: -100

It would show a list like that.

Don't know if that would appeal to everyone though.

 

 

Hey Guys,

So I'm excited for the inclusion of NPC's and I've been thinking about groups of NPC's and some things about them, if one of the developers could answer or hint towards anything that'd be great Also I'd like to hear others' thoughts on things like this.

1. Will group leaders be different in any way? As in can an NPC leader be a bit of a psycho and try to steal from and kill other groups whilst an NPC leader of a different group may be an honest person who tries to build a life for people? If so, what happens if the player or another NPC disobeys them?

2. Can group leaders (including the player) create 'rules' for the group? Perhaps the leader wants no weapons on the inside of the compound, and if anyone is caught with a weapon they will be punished (again depends on the leader's attitude, slap on the wrist or execution?)

3. What is the extent of NPC 'settlements'? Will they only be able to take over and fortify buildings or will they be able to seal off streets or even construct a fort the way a player can? I can imagine this would be extremely difficult to develop, but it would be really cool if it was possible.

4. If I were to sneak into an NPC settlement and assassinate the leader, what would happen with the group? Will they 'elect' a new leader?

5. Will we see some crazy lone-wolf NPC's that are badasses but also insane? That would be interesting to see.

Anyway, that's all, just hoping for some information on this stuff.

Thanks,

-GodWaffle

 

1. Initial version, to a limited extent. Characters have traits, so you could totally have a psycho leader. Once the system is in place it'll allow us to write 'event' scenes which are triggered under different circumstances. This could be anything from an argument about a can of beans, to a full blown mutiny. What we can add then will be more or less unlimited, or limited only by how much dialogue Will can actual pump out, as the system will play off character traits and relationships and it'll be pretty simple to add many condition triggered 'mini story' events that would weave together into a full blown personal survival narrative, but the first version will only have so much dialogue scripted for specific 'scenarios' that can occur within the group dynamic. Once the system is in place Will and Ringo can pretty much add as much as they can without hardly any coder involvement so its pretty exciting how quickly we could add this stuff.

 

2) One day perhaps, but not for a good while.

 

3) In the long run, we HAVE to make Woodbury style settlements possible, cause that'd be awesome. Before then NPCs will only use single buildings as safehouses.

 

4) Yes they elect a new leader, or the most popular / powerful one would assume control. Again its not clear how much dialogue will be there to represent these things in earlier versions.

 

5) Yes for sure.

 

GIVE THAT DEV A COOKIE !

 

 

*throws lemmy a cookie*

[Spaniard]

I think a 'Relationships' tab could do this, similar to Rome 2: Total War's faction relationship system, where you can view all actions which have affected the relationship between you and them.  This could appear with your skills, health and info tabs.

 

 

Maybe have this option for sandbox mode, but I personally don't like it for the reason you stated in your post. It would ruin the immersion and make things too predictable if easily referenced in the UI. I much prefer to have the numbers hidden, it would amplify any feelings of paranoia and distrust. Likewise, if it's a NPC that you do trust, it will make his betrayal all the more of a shock when it happens. I can see how a lot of, "I must win to have any fun" people would find this frustrating in regards to NPCs, so that's why I suggest it for sand-box only. Keep it away from my survival, please!

[brazjol]

I like the idea of using a Crusader Kings-like reputation system to calculate relationships between players and NPCs, though it would be interesting if the numbers you see would not be hard values, but maybe how your character perceives it, so a betrayal would still be unpredictable. Much like CK2, where even with a great relationship you might get betrayed by someone you think is on your side.

[GodWaffle]

 

I think a 'Relationships' tab could do this, similar to Rome 2: Total War's faction relationship system, where you can view all actions which have affected the relationship between you and them.  This could appear with your skills, health and info tabs.

 

 

Maybe have this option for sandbox mode, but I personally don't like it for the reason you stated in your post. It would ruin the immersion and make things too predictable if easily referenced in the UI. I much prefer to have the numbers hidden, it would amplify any feelings of paranoia and distrust. Likewise, if it's a NPC that you do trust, it will make his betrayal all the more of a shock when it happens. I can see how a lot of, "I must win to have any fun" people would find this frustrating in regards to NPCs, so that's why I suggest it for sand-box only. Keep it away from my survival, please!

 

 

 

I like the idea of using a Crusader Kings-like reputation system to calculate relationships between players and NPCs, though it would be interesting if the numbers you see would not be hard values, but maybe how your character perceives it, so a betrayal would still be unpredictable. Much like CK2, where even with a great relationship you might get betrayed by someone you think is on your side.

 

I can answer both these in one since they talk about the same thing.  What could work instead of hard numbers is just a general 'status' such as:

Very Friendly

Friendly

Neutral

Dislikes

Hostile

However these would only be a player's perception of that NPC, their perception of you may be different, you will know someone dislikes or is hostile to you if you do something to affect them, but let's say you're friends with a character, and you do something which pisses them off but you don't know about it, then your perception of them will remain 'friendly'.

So obvious things will change this perception, but they may be hostile to you while you find them 'Very Friendly', this could lead to some betrayal circumstances.

[Tooks]

Considering the Size of some buildings this could be really good even before suvivor settlements come into play (how freaked out would you be to come across an actual woodbury like settlement? or somewhere like the 'winter' section of Last of Us... *shivers*)

 

Also based on what Lemmy says that after the coding is done Will and Ringo will be able to add in new dialogue events and all that jazz with little to no coding, I can imagine the modding community will be doing the same. Expect some content from me in that regards if its as easy as it sounds

[GodWaffle]

What I wonder is if we'll have sort of sub-leaders, so you'll have the leader of the group, but he/she may stay at the settlement when a group goes out on a supply run, now this supply run could also have a leader.  I don't know about this but it would make sense that someone would lead the supply-group.

[lemmy101]

What I wonder is if we'll have sort of sub-leaders, so you'll have the leader of the group, but he/she may stay at the settlement when a group goes out on a supply run, now this supply run could also have a leader.  I don't know about this but it would make sense that someone would lead the supply-group.

 

this already happens in NPC dev branch. Subgroups split off, go looting with a secondary leader, come back and remerge with parent group.

[GodWaffle]

 

What I wonder is if we'll have sort of sub-leaders, so you'll have the leader of the group, but he/she may stay at the settlement when a group goes out on a supply run, now this supply run could also have a leader.  I don't know about this but it would make sense that someone would lead the supply-group.

 

this already happens in NPC dev branch. Subgroups split off, go looting with a secondary leader, come back and remerge with parent group.

 

 

Ah that's awesome to hear! Really looking forward to trying this stuff out for myself once it's finished, keep up the good work guys.

[Spaniard]

I can answer both these in one since they talk about the same thing.  What could work instead of hard numbers is just a general 'status' such as:

Very Friendly

Friendly

Neutral

Dislikes

Hostile

However these would only be a player's perception of that NPC, their perception of you may be different, you will know someone dislikes or is hostile to you if you do something to affect them, but let's say you're friends with a character, and you do something which pisses them off but you don't know about it, then your perception of them will remain 'friendly'.

So obvious things will change this perception, but they may be hostile to you while you find them 'Very Friendly', this could lead to some betrayal circumstances.

 

 

Considering how complex the NPC system is gearing up to become, I don't see how this would be necessary, or in any way add up to more fun. How trust worthy the NPC should be completely based off your interaction with the NPC, and the NPC's demeanor. Both of these things I want to figure out in the game and not rely on the UI to tell me. Again I fail to see how  this suggestion would add fun to the game. At most,  I hope we get an in game journal where you can jot down notes, like a diary, and catalog events. At most, for survival anyway, and not something I 'd really even miss if it wasn't implemented.

[Guest easy AI opponent]

 

I can answer both these in one since they talk about the same thing.  What could work instead of hard numbers is just a general 'status' such as:

Very Friendly

Friendly

Neutral

Dislikes

Hostile

However these would only be a player's perception of that NPC, their perception of you may be different, you will know someone dislikes or is hostile to you if you do something to affect them, but let's say you're friends with a character, and you do something which pisses them off but you don't know about it, then your perception of them will remain 'friendly'.

So obvious things will change this perception, but they may be hostile to you while you find them 'Very Friendly', this could lead to some betrayal circumstances.

 

 

Considering how complex the NPC system is gearing up to become, I don't see how this would be necessary, or in any way add up to more fun. How trust worthy the NPC should be completely based off your interaction with the NPC, and the NPC's demeanor. Both of these things I want to figure out in the game and not rely on the UI to tell me. Again I fail to see how  this suggestion would add fun to the game. At most,  I hope we get an in game journal where you can jot down notes, like a diary, and catalog events. At most, for survival anyway, and not something I 'd really even miss if it wasn't implemented.

 

It depends on how well the game is able to communicate the NPCs demeanor. Dont forget the NPCs in their current state are small figures with limited animations no voice and mimic (and i havent heard that the latter two will be changed). So their ability to express their mood or personality is very limited. Of course their still could walk friendly circles or aggressive squares (joke).

So a tool tip would be very helpful here, while at its current state its not so important if +200, +150,.... translates into "Very friendly", "friendly",...and so on ( like brazjol said no need for hard numbers, betrayal should be possible...)

 

In one way or another the game has to tell you the personality of the NPCs, either directly via their demeanor or due to a tooltip. However given that the only way NPCs can communicate is due to text dialoge, i think it would be fair to have tooltip to compensate for the lost dimensions of perception.

Again i think the opinion and trait system of Crusader kings 2 could be a great inspiration for PZ.

http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Opinion

http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Traits    

(need to scroll down a bit)

 

[Tooks]

Again i think the opinion and trait system of Crusader kings 2 could be a great inspiration for PZ.

http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Opinion

http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Traits    

(need to scroll down a bit)

 

 

 

I like this, mainly because I'm pretty sure I was once partial to a conversation with Lemmy in which he said the meta-game in CK2 was an influence for what thry want from the NPC Meta-game

[Guest easy AI opponent]

 

Again i think the opinion and trait system of Crusader kings 2 could be a great inspiration for PZ.

http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Opinion

http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Traits    

(need to scroll down a bit)

 

 

 

I like this, mainly because I'm pretty sure I was once partial to a conversation with Lemmy in which he said the meta-game in CK2 was an influence for what they want from the NPC Meta-game

 

Awesome!

[TheCenturion]

 

 

I think a 'Relationships' tab could do this, similar to Rome 2: Total War's faction relationship system...

 

 

... I do not think it means what you think it means.