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A heartfelt insight, from an ARK convert: Don't remove features.

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Dear Indie Stone, 


Let me start by thanking you for developing an amazing game such as Project Zomboid. 


The vehicle update has brought me to this game. So much so, it has pulled me away from the likes of ARK after 2 years, because PZ has a different feel, but also because it feels "closer to home" and is isometric. 
The vehicles already bring a sort of gaming paradigm that I absolutely adore:  Strategic Mobility. 


PZ is a very VERY slow burning game. You can lose hours upon hours of playtime before getting to an autonomous state (building a stronghold around a water well, with a farm on the roof) . But even in this autonomous state, there is a finite amount of glue, adhesives and/or repairing mats on the map. Sooner or later, one is reduced to foraging, trapping and using stone tools. 
I was super excited when I saw metalworking. The idea of being able to forge one's own ammo, axes and tools felt like a great end-game scenario. In ancient times, the celts considered Axe-heads to be a family heirloom. Incredibly valuable. So valuable, they engraved the shape of those Axe-heads into the stonehenge, symbolizing their tribe. 
Even Oetzi, the ancient snow-mummy found in the alps sported a well crafted metal hatchet. 
To me, an axe is even better than even a sword, for an axe is survivors sword. 

 

I was sooo excited to see Blacksmithing Magazine Nr. 4.


So imagine my heartbreak when  I saw it was removed and even cancelled from the game on Wikipedia. 
Being able to smith an axe, or bullets does not break the immersion of PZ. It is not to be compared to the likes of being able to stuff a fridge into one's hiking bag, or the glaring lack of bow and arrow, a household item. What would Daryl think? 


In ARK, for every nerf the developers made, the community made a mod to undo that nerf. They did that because ARK is a PvP game first and foremost, and all changes they make for PvP is roled over automatically to PvE. It went so far that in order to have fun, one needed over 16 mods on unofficial servers for it to be enjoyable, as opposed to a watered down experience reminiscent of E-Sports.  Fair. Too fair. 
When Wildcard (Devs of ARK) nerfed the flyers by removing the speed stat altogether, and gave them static speeds, the entire community asked the devs, why not make it optional for unofficial servers instead of deciding FOR everyone how to play the game? 


On one hand, they have sliders for everything from damage rates to resistances, to such an that one can seriously destroy the experience of the game.  It's like the option of turning off zombies in PZ, altogether. 
And on the other hand, they remove the speed of flying mounts, diminishing the satisfaction one has of flying on the back of a dragon. 


I see this same thing occuring here, with the removal or diminishing of a game's feature such as metalworking. 


You guys already acknowledge that a customizeable Sandbox experience is vital. 
You folks already more or less implemented Metalworking and associated assets; Why remove it, as opposed to making it optional? 
Poeple's tastes polarize behind admins and admins polarize behind games they choose to operate on, therefore isn't it wise for a dev to allow for a broad template of synergizing features for poeple to pick and choose and polarize behind? 


It is like striking away Hawaiian Pizza from the menu, cuz the cook doesn't like it, when there is a sizeable demand for it and makes for a perfectly valid pizza. 
It should be up to the customer to choose it or not. Doesn't make it less of a Pizza. 


Being able to forge axes shouldn't make it less of a zombie survival game. 
 

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You make a valid point about not removing features- it's definitely not a habit they have any inclination to get into.

 

You also bring up another common question, which is "why keep things locked off even if they don't fit the game if you could simply make an option for it?" There's some merit in this question, but I'll answer like I have before- the devs also have a vision for the game, and a dedication to certain design and quality principles. The decision was made that the blacksmithing features didn't fit those core values exactly, so it was shelved (for the time being). That being said, as far as I know being able to craft an axe or hatchet may still be something that will be included in the game, however, it will likely be implemented in a different way that feels more in-spirit with the game's theme.

 

Giving players choice isn't always a good thing- giving in to unlimited choice leads to feature creep and inappropriate amounts of time spent to bug fix and polish things that don't live up to the game's design and quality goals. This time could be better spent on other, more appropriate things.

 

I hope this helps ease your fears and explain things, at least as best I can.

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10 hours ago, Rathlord said:

Giving players choice isn't always a good thing- giving in to unlimited choice leads to feature creep and inappropriate amounts of time spent to bug fix and polish things that don't live up to the game's design and quality goals. This time could be better spent on other, more appropriate things.

Yeah, I get that. 

In the world of object oriented programming, where the limit is time, technical and one's own imagination, the only thing that guides a Dev, to prevent them from endless experimentation is scoping a project within the contextual boundaries of a thematic vision. 

 

It's a way for Indie Stone to encapsulate their responsibility into what is "Project Zomboid".  The more features there are, the more responsibilities there are. 

 

Though, from someone entering someone elses vision, such as a player entering that of a dev, the vision has to be believable. 

 

Like an artist receiving critique from people who have never seen the picture before, artists know people will see flaws in the painting which the artist took for normal.  

One could argue that flaws are "styles". Which is fine and good, as long as it doesn't challenge one's suspension of disbelief. 

 

When it comes to Project Zomboid... people enter the game knowing it's a zombie survival. They have no idea of the Dev's interpretation of a zombie survival. All their expectations come from reference materials to the zombie survival genre such as The Walking Dead amongst other things. 

 

Now suspension of disbelief is supported by 3 pillars:   

1. Reference material. 

2. Real life plausibility

3. An addition that is physical, that justifies itself through function and supporting integrity (i.e. Lightsaber, Holocron, Pokeball, Warp Drive or a Te'Angreal) 

 

The lack of Bow and Arrow breaks all 3 pillars. 

The inclusion of vehicles is absolutely vital to these 3 pillars. 

The ability to craft things that empower a character within the scope of Project Zomboid is an integral part of the game itself. 

 

"One misses not a luxury unknown". 

One doesn't need airplanes, lasers, boats, an RV, Tanks, Rockets, etc. 

One can explain all that IF even pulled into question as to why there are no boats. (intercepted at exclusion zone, and identified via license plate.)

Why no fishing boats?  Lakes too small. River currents too strong. Too shallow. Ocean currents too strong / All boats nuked.  

 

One does need to believe one can craft what one has held in hand though. 

 

People are going to make mods for Bow and Arrow and Blacksmithing otherwise, not because it's a luxury, but because it makes the game more believable. 

 

It'd be nice to have the devs synergize these "inevitable features" with existing features, instead of the community making sad ghetto-husks of such features in an attempt to "fix" the game. 

 

Believe me when I say.... add metalcrafting recipes back in, and include bow and arrow and project zomboid is complete in the eyes of the majority. 

 

Because then it is a perfectly self-contained microcosm of plausibility. 

 

The devs could argue that:  

 

Sure, then people will say, after NPC's are added "add in deers, dogs and wolves, THEN we will consider it a closed deal." <--- feature creep at it's worst, cuz it's difficult to argue against. 

 

Well, that is where i can back the devs in saying that there is already trapping, and it's a fair compromise in game mechanics vs. resources available for now. It's still a  hunting feature.

But leaving out metalcrafting recipes Nr. 4 is no compromise at all. It's omitting a gameplay paradigm in it's entirety.  "Yes, but you can passive-craft these things by finding them." well... things don't respawn on official settings so that's a buzz killer, ainit? 

 

Why survive if deterioration is certainty? You need to fool intelligence into having hope that it can improve it's situation for it to even want to pay money to be part of it. 

Whether full metal crafter with enough bullets to arm the US army, or a lowly fisherman,  it only takes one bite to take it all away. 

 

But let's go one step further and ask: 

 

What if one adds animals in a DLC? 

But then people will say: "Oh, so the devs are purposefully omitting features so they can market it?" 

See, the rational behind that is PERFECTLY defendable with: "The devs ran out of time and resources, and had to release the game. They need extra resources for a project as large as adding animals, because they account for technicalities that require changes and adaptations on over 40% of the games code.  It's the same as adding vehicles." 

 

Anyone who argues against those perfectly fine reasons are cheapskates and i assure you, today's vocal minority (forum fauna) is perfectly aware of that and will come to your defense. Such honesty will resonate across the media, cuz you guys are Indie, not Electronic Arts. 

 

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Bows (specifically the arrows) need new code systems writing for it as the guns currently don't use physics code and is, iirc, why we don't have bullet trails.

 

Bows and crossbows are on the cards but I don't know when they'll be looked at since they will require a concerted effort to implement.

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44 minutes ago, martingee said:

Bows (specifically the arrows) need new code systems writing for it as the guns currently don't use physics code and is, iirc, why we don't have bullet trails.

 

Bows and crossbows are on the cards but I don't know when they'll be looked at since they will require a concerted effort to implement.

You don't need physics code. Just the animations for wielding and firing a bow. 

 

Contrary to popular belief, arrows actually fly fast enough to not require a physical representation if the range is within 20 meters.  An animated GIF in form of a rotating linear alpha gradiant texture connecting the bow and arrow and the zombie (to represent the fast flying of an arrow) should be enough. 

 

IF that fails to convince, then I think Crossbows would be easiest to implement because they won't require animations, and can use the same animations as rifles. As for the bolt. Crossbow bolts fly fast enough to not require physical representation at all. A good sound effect of a bolt whistling and bolt impact should suffice. The fact that one can reclaim a bolt inside the target's inventory should be enough to satisfy players. As for the bolts and arrow that miss; Could one have the arrow randomly land within the characters cone of vision on a 10-15 meters distance? 

 

Whatever the case, i'd actually be interested in how this mechanic works in general. 

The PZ engine doesn't use Raytrace, does it? 

And I assume the cone of vision is some sort of do while loop, which the fog of war responds to? 

 

You know, on second thought I think I understand why bow and arrow has been omitted. As long as it's in the cards, and will be added it in at some point, as DLC or otherwise, I can be at peace. I trust it will be done right when the time comes, judging by the vehicles.  These things need their time.

 

For now, focus on the vehicles :D  

And again:  Don't remove Metalcrafting Recipes Nr.4 :P  Pretty please? ^_^

 

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No, current bullets don't use raycasting, the system is different.

 

As for blacksmithing stuff... at some point, you just have to trust us to make the decision, even if you don't agree with it. We don't feel that what was there lined up with the standards for the game, and cheapening the feel of the game by adding stuff that doesn't fit in isn't a compromise they're willing to make.

 

Regarding what players view as "appropriate for the game," one of the big factors is *other things in the game*. That is, in reality, the biggest determining factor of what feels okay and what doesn't. The blacksmithing stuff just didn't feel okay when compared against the rest. You don't like hearing that- I understand, and can relate. But at the end of the day, the devs are accountable to themselves for their creative vision and I personally don't feel pushing them to include something that doesn't fit with the spirit of what's here is appropriate. Metalworking is still on the table. Be patient. It will come in a way that better fits with the rest of the game.

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31 minutes ago, Rathlord said:

No, current bullets don't use raycasting, the system is different.

 

As for blacksmithing stuff... at some point, you just have to trust us to make the decision, even if you don't agree with it. We don't feel that what was there lined up with the standards for the game, and cheapening the feel of the game by adding stuff that doesn't fit in isn't a compromise they're willing to make.

 

Regarding what players view as "appropriate for the game," one of the big factors is *other things in the game*. That is, in reality, the biggest determining factor of what feels okay and what doesn't. The blacksmithing stuff just didn't feel okay when compared against the rest. You don't like hearing that- I understand, and can relate. But at the end of the day, the devs are accountable to themselves for their creative vision and I personally don't feel pushing them to include something that doesn't fit with the spirit of what's here is appropriate. Metalworking is still on the table. Be patient. It will come in a way that better fits with the rest of the game.

Usually i'd argue on, but if the vehicles and new character models are any indication, you guys are on top of the ball :)

I already feel comfy with you guys as Devs by how well you lot communicate and soldier on despite the shit you guys go through, so alright. 

I'll trust you guys. 

 

The work with the vehicles is already phenomenal.   I actually just expected a well modeled vehicle with HP and weight (ala ARK dinos lol) but u guys went well beyond that... 

Being able to inflate tires and change entire doors and stuff.   CRAAAZY.  You guys just superceded ALOT of zombie survival games out there. 

After thinking about it, that alone already makes up for...well. Lots of things. x) 

 

So keep up the good work and thanks. 5 Stars to you lot. 

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20 hours ago, martingee said:

Bows (specifically the arrows) need new code systems writing for it as the guns currently don't use physics code and is, iirc, why we don't have bullet trails.

 

Bows and crossbows are on the cards but I don't know when they'll be looked at since they will require a concerted effort to implement.

Bullet trails? I thought you wanted to keep it realistic, because in IRL only special ammo have trails..

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I think I missed a memo or something - there have been no dev conversations about removing anything in blacksmithing I've seen. I'll look into it but I honestly have no idea what this refers to.

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3 hours ago, DramaSetter said:

Bullet trails? I thought you wanted to keep it realistic, because in IRL only special ammo have trails..

Bullet trails were requested/suggested a while back to help players in multiplayer have some indication as to where they were been shot from and also generally help with aiming. The way firearms work currently don't support this or tracers (which is what you were may be thinking of?) which would be quite cool in their own right and as you mention are another type of ammo. :)

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2 hours ago, lemmy101 said:

I think I missed a memo or something - there have been no dev conversations about removing anything in blacksmithing I've seen. I'll look into it but I honestly have no idea what this refers to.

AHHH the Wiki page has been updated: 

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Metalworking_Guide

 

Now it no longer says the recipes have been removed, but only omits the things like Axe, Ammunition and the likes from Metalcrafting Magazine Nr. 4. 

Wish i had taken an evidence screenshot of what was listed in the magazine before cuz that was pure awesome.  xD 

 

Magazine 3 had tools recipes in them.  

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I really hope the devs do include blacksmiths in the game.

 

The Romans had it, we know all about it, it's been thousands of years, and hobbyists are doing it with their own basic materials in their backyards. It isn't rocket science, especially when you can still find Blacksmith Guilds all over North America.

You can easily melt and cast lead, as well as iron, and use steel from other sources to smith blades and the like. I've seen a guy turn a wrench into a knife.

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5 hours ago, Damien Darkside said:

I really hope the devs do include blacksmiths in the game.

 

The Romans had it, we know all about it, it's been thousands of years, and hobbyists are doing it with their own basic materials in their backyards. It isn't rocket science, especially when you can still find Blacksmith Guilds all over North America.

You can easily melt and cast lead, as well as iron, and use steel from other sources to smith blades and the like. I've seen a guy turn a wrench into a knife.

 

You can look around our forums for past insight on this topic, but the tl;dr is that normal people have neither the know-how nor the tools to accomplish such things. Further, simply sharpening some rebar or something similar into a blade is both quicker and more effective than anything a regular person could hope to smith at home. The Romans passed smithing down as a trade which took thousands of years to learn (and they really worked mostly with copper). There's a lot of things people in the past did that most people in the present couldn't accomplish. I doubt you could card wool, and people have been doing that considerably longer than forging metals.

 

Most importantly, I can tell you a better and more realistic and easy-to-accomplish way to do basically anything you can think of with blacksmithing with basic metalworking instead.

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On 3/14/2018 at 5:40 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

tl;dr: we take a ton for granted thanks to our dependence on the Internet . . .

Good point though. There is a noticeable lack of computers in the homes of PZ. 

Back in the mid 90's, there were more bicycles than computers. 

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23 minutes ago, Vyn Halcyon said:

Good point though. There is a noticeable lack of computers in the homes of PZ. 

Back in the mid 90's, there were more bicycles than computers. 

Yep, that's partially why the game's set somewhere around 1991 - 1993. Though reference books existed (and I have a bunch on things like home maintenance / construction and fine carpentry) it . . . really wasn't the same. Particularly with the older books and their low-quality images.

 

When I was a kid, it was the people of my grandfather's generation that did the whole "backyard craftsman" stuff. Though that was usually limited to plaster figurines or lead/wood toys, and functional furniture.Things like hammering  out your own horseshoes and stitching your own harnesses seemed to fall squarely into hobbies for that generation. Though my uncles took it up to a certain extent, it was no where near their extreme.  For my generation in particular, no one I've known in real life seems to do any of that stuff anymore. But maybe that comes with age.

 

While I get that the rare, exceptional, person picked blacksmithing up this stuff on their own, with or without training and/or materials, even in the 80s and 90s, I find it very strange that it's just expected for most, if not all players, to be able to do it in PZ. Everything from finding and mining ore, smelting, and forging, to starting up powerplants, substations, and water plants. 

But then PZ is also a game where you can't make planks without a hand saw, despite houses being loaded with good timber in reality. It's a game where you have to build your own door instead of take one off the hinges (can  you with the moveables update?) or find one at a hardware store. How to reconcile the two versions remains a quandary.

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46 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Yep, that's partially why the game's set somewhere around 1991 - 1993. Though reference books existed (and I have a bunch on things like home maintenance / construction and fine carpentry) it . . . really wasn't the same. Particularly with the older books and their low-quality images.

 

When I was a kid, it was the people of my grandfather's generation that did the whole "backyard craftsman" stuff. Though that was usually limited to plaster figurines or lead/wood toys, and functional furniture.Things like hammering  out your own horseshoes and stitching your own harnesses seemed to fall squarely into hobbies for that generation. Though my uncles took it up to a certain extent, it was no where near their extreme.  For my generation in particular, no one I've known in real life seems to do any of that stuff anymore. But maybe that comes with age.

 

While I get that the rare, exceptional, person picked blacksmithing up this stuff on their own, with or without training and/or materials, even in the 80s and 90s, I find it very strange that it's just expected for most, if not all players, to be able to do it in PZ. Everything from finding and mining ore, smelting, and forging, to starting up powerplants, substations, and water plants. 

But then PZ is also a game where you can't make planks without a hand saw, despite houses being loaded with good timber in reality. It's a game where you have to build your own door instead of take one off the hinges (can  you with the moveables update?) or find one at a hardware store. How to reconcile the two versions remains a quandary.

 

 

The Team behind The Long Dark faced a very similar challenge of calling into question exactly what modern people are capable of these days in a survival scenario.

 

They had the forethought to place the setting in a post apocalyptic northern Canada during winter after a solar storm just about sent the world into the stone age by sapping electricity.

 

They saved themselves the vehicle conundrum: 

  • Ice and snow prevented the use of bicycles
  • Solar Flare and frost disabled car batteries
  • The distortion of earth's magnetosphere throw compasses out of whack (making people rely on landmarks for navigation)

 

And the art style they chose, saved them a lot of agency considerations: 

  • Mirrors don't reflect; they were hand painted textures
  • Early access the player model simply didn't exist. Was a floating camera in first person, even lacking hands for the rifle.  It was very noticeable when they first added the bow and arrow. But hey, the art-style buffered that well. 

 

There came a point where the team then thought about atrophy and long term survival. The End-Game for the people who love the game so much they'd survive beyond 200 days…

 

There came considerations of putting gameplay slightly above realism… because there were major gameplay loops that could be augmented: 

 

  • Hunting
  • Salvaging
  • Crafting

 

And thus came in-depth mechanics for making survival bows, arrows, rabbit mitts, deer-hide boots, wolf coats, even bear hide sleeping bags. These were the best and "Epic" items. To make these things, you had to be quite involved with nature's bounties. More importantly, they were repairable items, and the new bottleneck for survival beyond +400 days boiled down to the global metal scrap supply for making fishing hooks (to be abused as needles). 

 

In order to make a bow, one had to gather maple saplings, and "cure" them by dropping it onto an interior floor, in addition to curing animal entrails, to use as the bow string and some other sapling for arrow shafts.

 

One could combine a fishing hook with cured animal entrails to create needle and thread, to make rabbit fur mitts etc.. That is IF one ran out of sewing kits.

 

There was entire fascinating game mechanics behind crafting stuff similar to PZ.

 

How did an ordinary Joe or Jane know how to do this?  Apparently every Canadian does :P

 

Then came the decision to add metal forging.  Being able to smelt metal scrap at a forge inside an old abandoned whaling(?) ship, "perched" or landlocked in ice.

 

The Forge had to be fired up with tinder and wood, with accelerants as an option, with either matchboxes or even a firestarter (modern version of a  flint and tinder) and get the fire up to atleast 150 celsius, to be able to smelt the scrap metal.

 

Did they show smelting animations, or the actual process of melting the metal inside the forge? Hell no.  Nobody actually cared. What people actually cared about was how cool it is, to be inside an abandoned fishing vessel, blacksmithing arrow heads, improvised knives and hatchets, when the world has run out of repair tools for their modern knives and hatchets. No longer did they care whether it would break their immersion or not, but rather how they could progress further on, after spending 1000+ hours surviving in the game.

 

Infact, that forge is the ONLY way for people to survive in The Long Dark on the hardest setting, because no tools would spawn.

 

That being said, PZ already addresses this issue with stone tools from foraging.

 

Hinterlands argued that stone tools just didn't fit their game. They thought one would sooner find a pre-made knife and hatchet in a modern world, and they were right…   But all things decay.

 

With people being used to metal tools, downgrading to stone tools felt awkward eventho it made perfect sense.

 

But from a gameplay point of view, people have always worked their way up from stone tools to metal tools.

 

The take away from this is:    Augment your gameplay with unrealistic things that don't challenge the suspension of disbelief. More people are gonna have a blast with that, than question it's legitimacy.

 

It's perfectly fine to make up shit to conserve on resources like Hinterlands did.

 

But if they had left out bow and arrow and craftable clothing and metalforging cuz it was "unrealistic", the game wouldn't be as LASTING at the end of the day.

 

I have A LOT of other games to choose from other then the long dark… But I find myself drawn to the long dark cuz it added this: 

 

3. An addition that is physical, that justifies itself through function and supporting integrity (i.e. Lightsaber, Holocron, Pokeball, Warp Drive or a Te'Angreal) 

 

 

 Now, I'm not expecting people to be able to craft Conan's Atlantean Sword or Michonne's Katana.

 

And I trust you guys enough to come up with cool shit that the gameboy generation would come up with when it comes to metal crafting. Something REALLY PZ.

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Keep in mind, though, that The Long Dark is a different flavor of survival entirely. Just because one "survival" game does it a certain way doesn't mean it's appropriate for all- I'm sure you get that. We already make quite some realism sacrifices, but we're kind of serving a niche here and that niche is early outbreak mostly city-and-salvage based survival. The "power fantasy" of the game is what modern (ish) people would do in the early to mid days of an outbreak. And whilst the realism sacrifices make perfect sense in The Long Dark- whose power fantasy is long term wilderness survival in a world where electronics are basically caput- I don't feel they're equally appropriate to PZ.

 

Especially considering, as I mentioned before, we have the capability to do *anything* you can name (go ahead if you want examples) in a more realistic way that fits more in the spirit of PZ via metalworking rather than forging/blacksmithing. Blades and tools can easily be made out of sheet stock and scrap metal- a simple hacksaw makes most basic tools relatively easy to craft, even more hacksaws to a certain extent. For more complex stuff, an acetylene cutting torch is fine. But nothing that the game needs to complete its power fantasy requires full-on blacksmithing, so why add something that doesn't fit the flavor of the game or the devs vision and adds nothing that can't be handled by something more realistic?

 

Thanks my question and 2c, and so far I've yet to really see an answer that changed my mind.

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7 minutes ago, Rathlord said:

Blades and tools can easily be made out of sheet stock and scrap metal- a simple hacksaw makes most basic tools relatively easy to craft, even more hacksaws to a certain extent. For more complex stuff, an acetylene cutting torch is fine. But nothing that the game needs to complete its power fantasy requires full-on blacksmithing, so why add something that doesn't fit the flavor of the game or the devs vision and adds nothing that can't be handled by something more realistic?

THAT is what I needed to hear. 

I completely agree. 

 

Jeese, why didn't u just lead with that to begin with? :P

 

If you add a PZ-exclusive home-made Machete, than HELLLL YEAH!!!!!

 

The point is, I don't wanna run out of glue on all the Axes in PZ. I love the blood splatters of the zombies when you chopém up with an axe... the satisfaction thereof is done sooooooo well in PZ that other games, even 3D games, don't even come close to that. It's SOOOOOO Tarantino! It's just... running out of glue shouldn't be what takes the wind out of my sails. Saddest "the way you died" ever:  Ran out of glue.  

 

If a sustainable (repairable using renewable resources) replacement to an axe (of the blade family), can be made, I'll love PZ forever. 

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35 minutes ago, Vyn Halcyon said:

THAT is what I needed to hear. 

I completely agree. 

 

Jeese, why didn't u just lead with that to begin with? :P

 

If you add a PZ-exclusive home-made Machete, than HELLLL YEAH!!!!!

 

The point is, I don't wanna run out of glue on all the Axes in PZ. I love the blood splatters of the zombies when you chopém up with an axe... the satisfaction thereof is done sooooooo well in PZ that other games, even 3D games, don't even come close to that. It's SOOOOOO Tarantino! It's just... running out of glue shouldn't be what takes the wind out of my sails. Saddest "the way you died" ever:  Ran out of glue.  

 

If a sustainable (repairable using renewable resources) replacement to an axe (of the blade family), can be made, I'll love PZ forever. 

tbh I think one of the ways to handle the whole loot scarcity thing is just adding a Scavenge skill.

Over time, more skilled players can return to previous haunts and find loot that they "missed" the first go around based on that skill, or discover stashes left behind by other characters (whether NPCs are in or not). That would both solve the "I'll one day run out of glue" thing and the "I need then be able to make my own glue" thing pretty directly, while encouraging players to move around the map. It also adds additional incentive for the devs to script changes to those areas. (I'm just using glue as an example, not saying I'm against being able to make and eat your own glue.)

 

But that's just something I've been thinking about for a while now. I don't know what's planned on that front.

 

Likewise, I think a lot of more touchy elements could be sorted by doing what the Long Dark did: having specialty buildings with special / well out of date tools to do your thing. At least to a certain extent

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20 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

tbh I think one of the ways to handle the whole loot scarcity thing is just adding a Scavenge skill.

Over time, more skilled players can return to previous haunts and find loot that they "missed" the first go around based on that skill, or discover stashes left behind by other characters (whether NPCs are in or not). That would both solve the "I'll one day run out of glue" thing and the "I need then be able to make my own glue" thing pretty directly, while encouraging players to move around the map. It also adds additional incentive for the devs to script changes to those areas. (I'm just using glue as an example, not saying I'm against being able to make and eat your own glue.)

 

But that's just something I've been thinking about for a while now. I don't know what's planned on that front.

 

Likewise, I think a lot of more touchy elements could be sorted by doing what the Long Dark did: having specialty buildings with special / well out of date tools to do your thing. At least to a certain extent

 

That's a brilliant idea!  Cuz it does the following: 

 

- Adds a way/interface for injection new content into old content saves

- Supplies left by others plays right into the seasons and the passing of time. Makes re-visits awesome. Like dead survivor corpses spawning amidst a dilapidated house, like he fell from the roof or something.. or some zombie that is hanging from the ceiling.. you know, like someone tried to hang themselves. 

- Random abandoned Backpacks

- Crashed Helicoptor? Good source for an assault rifle, MREs and stuff. 

 

As for craftable Glue. 2 words: Pine Sap.  Don't even have to craft it. 

https://survivalsherpa.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/16-uses-of-sticky-pine-sap-for-wilderness-survival-and-self-reliance/

 

p.s. How does an average Joe know about Pine Sap?  Well, who didn't torture a Christmas tree as a kid, and felt some REALLY sticky resin on one's finger from the Xmas tree spine?  

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On 3/17/2018 at 5:10 AM, sadpickle said:

The Hydrocraft mod has a very robust crafting system that essentially covers things from the Paleolithic up the early Modern era.

Yeah, I installed it yesterday. lol. 

Testing it with the current vehicle build which is crazy but, myeah. 

 

I generally like playing Vanilla, cuz: 

1. Less crashes

2. Less fracking around with files if something goes wrong. 

 

But, i think running around topless with a steel greatsword + zombie blood stains splashing all over walls is too much for me to resist... Then driving a pick-up truck after that. lol.

Haven't done something so colorful like that since Saints Row 4. 

 

Conan Exiles + PZ = A very...very very...*VERY* unique experience. 

Challenges suspension of disbelief?....  

I was that kid who pitted the Enterprise against a Star Destroyer. Anything's possible. 

(The battle was short... 2 phaser shots on the star destroyer shield generators, then beaming a photon torpedo into the bridge, finished the job.) The Deathstar won though. 

 

Ps.  Yeeahh.....Mods don't play well with vehicles yet. 

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