Defensive Structures

[knightshousegames]

If you've ever run a mod like Horde Night, you know the defensive structures currently in the game.....leave something to be desired perhaps.

 

I think theres a lot of potential for this avenue for the game. Base building is one of my favorite past times in the game, especially when playing in multiplayer with Horde Night installed, it just adds another dimension to the game

 

Some structures I think it might be cool to have

 

1 - Barbed Wire Nests, and more uses for barbed wire in general

 

During the World Wars, large areas of barbed wire like this were used to slow and deter enemy troop movement. Having something like this set up around the defensive walls of your base might be nice to slow zombies down, damaging them as they walk through, or deter them from entering an area completely to direct them to specific areas of you defenses. And in general, being able to do more with barbed wire would be nice, like more effective barbed wire fences that actually hurt zombies, and so on.

 

2 - Mines that actually work

 

Explosives in general in Zomboid are a bit underwhelming. It might be nice if you could loot landmines of some sort at military locations, in addition to the motion sensor mines you can already make, but like...have them actually work. I can't seem to get the motion detector bombs to actually function in multiplayer. It would be nice to build minefields as a first line of defense for the base

 

3 - Electric Fences

 

Being able to wire up the Large Pipe Fences with electrical wire to a generator would be pretty great. Electrocuting zombies could at least stun them against the wall, or even light them on fire with long enough contact. The balance could be that it uses a ton of power to turn on, draining the generator quickly, or even damaging it, so you only want to turn it on for short periods of time.

 

4 - Puddles of Gasoline/Napalm

 

It might be cool to be able to make a sort of napalm mixture you could spread out in paved areas like parking lots that could be strategically lit by the player, possibly by just throwing a molotov in that area, that burns intensely, but doesn't really spread if theres nothing nearby to catch like brush or wooden constructions, for controlled scorching an area of zombies you lure into it. You could perhaps have to use a gas can and the rubber of a tire or something like that mixed in a bucket, then the spreading interface could be like painting, except on the ground

 

5 - Mounted Guns

 

This could be a really high level find, only at military locations or the check point area, have heavy machine guns that mount in place like furniture that the player can shoot in a limited arc based on facing direction. Have the ammo spawns for it be rare, but when you do find it, it comes in large quantities, so it can be used effectively, but not in a way that trivializes the game. They could perhaps require a stack of gravel or sandbags to be placed on to hold them down, making it so theres a lot of setup time, so you can't just walk around with one of these things. Mortars might also be fun, but hard to use. I recognize this one might be a challenge compared to the others.

 

6 - Concrete Structures

 

Theres currently concrete bags in the game...but you literally can't use them to make anything. It might be nice to be able to construct molds for building walls out of concrete, or even just using a metal frames as a base to build walls out of concrete like rebar. The balancing factor for these could be that they take time ingame to set, and become stronger over time, if they don't get attacked, So perhaps if you build some sort of structure out of concrete, if a zombie attacks it before a week or so passes, it breaks easily, then once it initially sets, it has a pretty high durability, that gets higher each day, until after a month or so it becomes unbreakable by zombies and can only be destroyed by a player with a sledgehammer or something.

 

Just a few ideas I can think of off the top of my head that might be cool to have

[PoshRocketeer]

Mounted guns are likely a big no from the devs judging from the list of "do's and don'ts" they provided, but the idea of using barbed wire nets to ensnare zombies until the wire is destroyed by their movements is a cool idea. Landmines are interesting as well, though I could see them being abused in MP.

[getstoopid]

I'd love to see diy constructions like tripwire alarm traps or spiked-barrels or simple trenches to break their legs and such things.

Heavy machine guns would make sense near military outposts for sure but has the potential to make dealing with larger groups or even hordes way to easy

[knightshousegames]

Like I said, the heavy machine guns should probably require getting to somewhere insanely difficult to get to, and be an extremely end game thing, like for when you are dealing with hordes of hundreds in the winter time during a run. A run ending horde we faced one run was like 300+ vs 4 people, and they totally wrecked our base and killed almost everyone, it was insane. These are the scenarios you would want a machine gunner, where a hundred round box wouldn't be enough

 

But like I said, you might use every other defensive structure listed here before even having a chance of seeing the MG

[getstoopid]

I see where you are going but if you face a horde and are not prepared to leave you made a big mistake in the first place... game-wise in pz I mean. That's actually the problem: IF you had a machine gun and could actually deal with a horde you practically beat the game... so it is somewhat run-ending also anyway.

[knightshousegames]

I mean yeah, knowing when to run is important when you are out and about, but sometimes you need to stand your ground when your base is on the line

 

If you haven't run Horde Night, the format changes entirely, where now you have to gather supplies to build up your base to resist big attacks from huge hordes that spawn every so often, and each time they come the hordes get bigger to potentially insane proportions.

 

The way me and my group handle it is setting up these complex bases that are optimized for dealing with hordes, with a defensive wall, something of a pillbox with barred windows to shoot out from inside, as well as space and defensive fortifications to help melee fighters like sandbag chevrons of sorts for breaking up groups while kiting

 

It really changes the game because now theres a clock, and a reason to build. Once the hordes get super big after a few months, it becomes all out war. You still have the traditional zomboid gameplay otherwise, it's just every few weeks, it becomes the thunderdome.

 

I imagine this thing is like bolted down, like you need to use sandbags and stuff to hold it down, so you have to be stationary to use it, so if the horde overwhelms you, you still have to disengage and run, it's more of a first volley, and I only really include it for logical reasons, because the military would have them. I find all the other concepts far more interesting.

[getstoopid]

Ok I hear you... but that's actually an entire new situation. Practically a new game where it would totally make sense and be part of the fun to loot a mounted gun and build other "big-bang machines/contraptions" in general. 

[excon]

@op you should look at 7daysto die that has 90% of the items you described 

[knightshousegames]

6 hours ago, getstoopid said:

Ok I hear you... but that's actually an entire new situation. Practically a new game where it would totally make sense and be part of the fun to loot a mounted gun and build other "big-bang machines/contraptions" in general. 

Yeah, to some extent, but I just like the idea of being able to build a super strong base, it makes sense for the feel of true post-apocolyptic, 1 year later+ sort of scenarios, where you are starting to build society inside of secured quarantine zones, ala Last of Us. Being able to work your way up to that level would be cool

 

Outside of your base, you are still playing the regular game, and by that point you have to go pretty far afield to get resources, since after about a month or so in game, you've usually picked the starting town totally clean, so you have to run raids to other towns to get supplies, so your base defenses are only really keeping the base secure, outside of that, you are still playing the regular game, it's just another dimension as it were, another mode of gameplay within a single run.

 

Even without Horde Night it could just be fun to have that ability to build a super strong base, it's basically just another thing to do, which this game needs in it's "endgame", akin to collecting arcade machines and stuff inside your base, you are already a god at that point anyway, having a machine gun outside your base is less of a practicality and more of a show of dominance to the world

 

6 hours ago, excon said:

@op you should look at 7daysto die that has 90% of the items you described 

I've seen it, I don't like FPS games. I much prefer the combat and survival mechanics in Zomboid, where it isn't just a mindless grind through a tech tree. The horde aspect is good, but everything else about Zomboid is miles better than 7 Days.

[getstoopid]

22 hours ago, knightshousegames said:

makes sense for the feel of true post-apocolyptic, 1 year later+ sort of scenarios

 

Absolutely, but in the real world the way bigger threat than small groups of roaming zombies would be organized bandits, raiders or bands of militia-rough-necks that want to build _their_ society and you are in the way

So that may make sense when NPCs are out there (with enough brains and hostility that they pose a threat) or on a PvP server maybe.. single or coop would be somewhat ruined I guess, at least for me.

[knightshousegames]

9 hours ago, getstoopid said:

 

Absolutely, but in the real world the way bigger threat than small groups of roaming zombies would be organized bandits, raiders or bands of militia-rough-necks that want to build _their_ society and you are in the way

So that may make sense when NPCs are out there (with enough brains and hostility that they pose a threat) or on a PvP server maybe.. single or coop would be somewhat ruined I guess, at least for me.

Oh yeah, for sure, that would be sick

 

Especially if you had to raid one of their camps to get one, and might potentially have to meet the business end in action if you aren't careful

 

In general having all of these defenses being available to rival survivors would be pretty amazing, having to counter play against them as well as being able to use them yourself

 

God I hope Build 43 is even half as sick as I imagine it could be

Edited September 22, 2023 by knightshousegames

[ZombieHunter]

Electric fences won't have much effect.

Most fences are not designed to kill but stun 

 

Farm and Park electric fence is 5,000 volts

Military base fence is about 10,000 volts 

In comparison a cop taser is 50,000 volts

 

As zombies don't care about injury - it will stun them but they will break through.

 

Chain link fence deternt is injury. So it will more likely tangle them up then kill them.

 

 

Most effective defenses will likely be more from ancient times

 

Pitfall traps with spikes

Cheval de frise

etc

[getstoopid]

I'd go for barbed-wire-nests and yes, cheval de frise or pits for the win! Ordinary tripwire could be a low skill and low resources variant also. Zed stumbles and you bash its head in with less risk.

[Nowthere27]

On 10/5/2023 at 7:38 PM, ZombieHunter said:

Electric fences won't have much effect.

Most fences are not designed to kill but stun 

 

Farm and Park electric fence is 5,000 volts

Military base fence is about 10,000 volts 

In comparison a cop taser is 50,000 volts

 

As zombies don't care about injury - it will stun them but they will break through.

 

Chain link fence deternt is injury. So it will more likely tangle them up then kill them.

 

 

Most effective defenses will likely be more from ancient times

 

Pitfall traps with spikes

Cheval de frise

etc

 

Correction, zombies don't care about PAIN, they still get injured/damaged though. I supposed you could shock a zombie enough to kill it.

[ZombieHunter]

18 hours ago, Nowthere27 said:

Correction, zombies don't care about PAIN, they still get injured/damaged though. I supposed you could shock a zombie enough to kill it.

 

My statement was correct.

They don't care about injury.

 

Caring about injury and getting injured are two seperate things.

 

"I don't care if I lose the volleyball tournament"

vs "I lost the volleyball tournament" 

[Nowthere27]

On 11/5/2023 at 4:00 PM, ZombieHunter said:

 

My statement was correct.

They don't care about injury.

 

Caring about injury and getting injured are two seperate things.

 

"I don't care if I lose the volleyball tournament"

vs "I lost the volleyball tournament" 

They don't care about injury but still get injured nonetheless when you bash, slash, burn, run over or shoot them.

Pain ultimately they don't feel period.

 

Giving them a good shocking may kill them though. Body can't handle electric extremes. Shock a zombie enough and they may even fry.