REQUEST: "tutorial house"

[meonfire]

even if there isnt a tutorial now it would be nice if you may start @ a house that got everthing in it to test out some features

 

a little bit of wood / hammer / nails / seeds etc

 

not much but enough to test out stuff the survival guide tells you

 

just stuff to build 4 tiles and a stair + try out seeds and painting

----

 

its really hard to show the game too new people when you run around and dont find a hammer for half an hour etc

 

got 4 people now wich wanted to try out stuff and quit the game sadly because there was nothing to toy around at the beginning

 

 

[dida55]

even if there isnt a tutorial now it would be nice if you may start @ a house that got everthing in it to test out some features

 

a little bit of wood / hammer / nails / seeds etc

 

not much but enough to test out stuff the survival guide tells you

 

just stuff to build 4 tiles and a stair + try out seeds and painting

----

 

its really hard to show the game too new people when you run around and dont find a hammer for half an hour etc

 

got 4 people now wich wanted to try out stuff and quit the game sadly because there was nothing to toy around at the beginning

You could use a mod that gives you items / cheats.

[Rathlord]

That would be a bit silly... giving a person everything in the game to start out with would completely invalidate everything that Project Zomboid is about.

 

The whole idea behind PZ is that things are hard to find and you don't just have everything handed to you. This isn't meant to be the Gary's Mod of zombies. If your friends don't like a game where you have to struggle to survive, maybe PZ isn't the game for them. But they can always try the demo on Steam and see if they like it.

[LeoIvanov]

even if there isnt a tutorial now it would be nice if you may start @ a house that got everthing in it to test out some features

 

a little bit of wood / hammer / nails / seeds etc

 

not much but enough to test out stuff the survival guide tells you

 

just stuff to build 4 tiles and a stair + try out seeds and painting

----

 

its really hard to show the game too new people when you run around and dont find a hammer for half an hour etc

 

got 4 people now wich wanted to try out stuff and quit the game sadly because there was nothing to toy around at the beginning

 

Try the "Last Stand" mode.

 

First one has almost all of the available items to "toy" with in the crates, but you are constantly attacked by the zombies from all sides.

 

Second one is more friendly with "tinkering around" but you have to clean waves up to buy stuff, so first is (even though harsh) is preferable if you want quick access to more stuff.

[Hawthorn]

The Steam Demo I played today had a lot of these suggestions.

 

I would suggest a special mode that has  a small house and yard that you can't leave. It has all the basic stuff and the ability to try things out. In real life I know how to hammer a nail into a board. But in the game I need a place to practice the controls.

 

Maybe as a throw back to the Microsoft 'Clippy' Days have the racoon icon stuck in the bottom corner providing context help for every item you pick up. Enter the garage and it says, now lets get a hammer and nails to board up a door. Same for farming and such.

 

I personally love the hardcore nature and expect to die a lot early on, but some people will get frustrated when they try to plan seeds and it doesn't work the way they want and then they die. Or when they are in the bathroom and then they die. Or when they are drinking bleach and then they die.

[Rathlord]

Not a bad idea Hawthorn, but probably something either for modders or for a bit down the line. That being said, it probably wouldn't be hard to turn the Last Stand mode into this.

 

Edit: since maybe this wasn't clear enough, I mean that it wouldn't be hard for the devs to turn Last Stand into this. I'd be perfectly fine with something like this as long as not a part of the game.

[meonfire]

sure the game should not hand out stuff 4 free

 

i thought about this like hawthorn ...

 

aka a place where you can checkout the game mechanics (@ vanilla game without mods)

 

because there isnt a tutoral @ the moment a house with some basic stuff would be awesome

indiestone may delete it when a propper tutorial is available

 

maybe a little map called "tutorial map" without zombies .. just 1 building with stuff and some kind of backyard

 

play this map 10 min then go to the real game with some kind of basic know how

[conir]

since the game world is always the same and doesnt change each playtrough - the tutorial-house would also be always at the same place. now, one of the features i like very much, is that your spawnpoint is (kinda) random everytime you start a game - so you cant have both.

 

best solution would be a seperate tutorial level, one house, some nature around, and a friendly voice telling you how to play

 

One thing i must also add is that the most fun i am currently getting from PZ comes from figuring stuff out on my own - so you want to be careful about what to include in the tutorial-house.

[Kajin]

Maybe call it Siege Mode? You got some basic amenities. A campfire, some area set aside for crops, a few water barrels, a fenced in area with a lot of trees, an axe, a saw, and a bunch of nails. Like Last Stand, the goal of Siege Mode is to last as long as possible. Unlike Siege Mode, time is measured in days, weeks, and months instead of hours.

 

Your fences are always under assault by small numbers of zeds that regularly break through the fence in spots. A constant danger that will wear you out and kill you eventually.

[ToastedFishSandwich]

Better for a mod I think, but a fine mod it would be.

[Kajin]

Even if it starts as a mod, I still think it should eventually be implemented into the main game as another mode to go alongside Last Stand. But that's just my five cents on the matter.

[meonfire]

why are you talking about new "pro gamer" game modes ?

 

this thread is a request for some kind of a beginner tutorial map till the real tutorial arrives

[CliffExcellent]

That would be a bit silly... giving a person everything in the game to start out with would completely invalidate everything that Project Zomboid is about.

 

The whole idea behind PZ is that things are hard to find and you don't just have everything handed to you. This isn't meant to be the Gary's Mod of zombies. If your friends don't like a game where you have to struggle to survive, maybe PZ isn't the game for them. But they can always try the demo on Steam and see if they like it.

Don't think they were saying you should get to keep the stuff. Just try it out so you know what to do when the time comes. Which sounds fine to me.

 

No idea how you misunderstood that.

[Rathlord]

Seems pretty obvious to me. OP said "you START at a house" which implies continuing from there. Unless the items were then arbitrarily removed from you (which would be even more game-y and immersion breaking than the suggestion itself) that would mean you got to keep it. Not sure how you DIDNT get that from what he said.

But as I clearly stated further down the page, I've no problem with this if it's not tied into the normal game mode.

[CliffExcellent]

Seems pretty obvious to me. OP said "you START at a house" which implies continuing from there. Unless the items were then arbitrarily removed from you (which would be even more game-y and immersion breaking than the suggestion itself) that would mean you got to keep it. Not sure how you DIDNT get that from what he said.

But as I clearly stated further down the page, I've no problem with this if it's not tied into the normal game mode.

He said "you MAY start at a house". I assumed it was being suggested as an option. Would be pretty weird to force you to play a tutorial every time.

 

Besides, non-realistic is not the same as immersion breaking. Being able to live on a diet of only a few tubs of ice-cream a day is not realistic but I wouldn't call it immersion breaking. Realism isn't always a good thing.

[silents429]

 

Seems pretty obvious to me. OP said "you START at a house" which implies continuing from there. Unless the items were then arbitrarily removed from you (which would be even more game-y and immersion breaking than the suggestion itself) that would mean you got to keep it. Not sure how you DIDNT get that from what he said.

But as I clearly stated further down the page, I've no problem with this if it's not tied into the normal game mode.

He said "you MAY start at a house". I assumed it was being suggested as an option. Would be pretty weird to force you to play a tutorial every time.

 

Besides, non-realistic is not the same as immersion breaking. Being able to live on a diet of only a few tubs of ice-cream a day is not realistic but I wouldn't call it immersion breaking. Realism isn't always a good thing.

 

I live off not having water for weeks on end and just drink soda and milk, Im told thats not a good thing or realistic, Yet I am alive and well.

Its perfectly real to be able to do this, but your health would take a toll over time, and since only 1 person I have ever seen lasted 1 year in this game on the old versions, that alone isn't enough time to mess you up.

No immersion broke, and no realism to break, food is food.

 

[CliffExcellent]

 

I live off not having water for weeks on end and just drink soda and milk, Im told thats not a good thing or realistic, Yet I am alive and well.

Its perfectly real to be able to do this, but your health would take a toll over time, and since only 1 person I have ever seen lasted 1 year in this game on the old versions, that alone isn't enough time to mess you up.

No immersion broke, and no realism to break, food is food.

Okay then, how about being able to construct an entire house in the space of a few days with no experience in carpentry? If you tried that in real life it would almost certainly collapse. And yet, it's fine in a game, because realistically planning out and building a house would just be tedious.

 

Try to argue that it is somehow realistic as much as you like, you're insane if you think this game is 100% realistic. But it can still be immersive, because realism and immersion are not the same thing. FTL: Faster Than Light is a very immersive game but it's not even slightly realistic.Immersion simply means that you can get deeply engaged in a game and play it for hours on end without getting distracted at all. If a game isn't immersive, then you'll start thinking "Hmm, what's for tea" and won't really be all that focused on the game

 

I don't find Project Zomboid all that immersive, but that's more because of the bugs. I'll stop playing because a bug meant that I couldn't pick up an item I needed, or because I searched the entire map for an item I needed to continue and couldn't find it anywhere, not because you can read an entire book in the time it takes to eat a bit of chicken, or because the newspaper disappears when reading it.

[silents429]

Have you seen what you have?

Your walls look like a joke, and they look just like any makeshift crap someone could throw together, and if your immersion is broken that easily with an early access game, you can leave, none of us are forcing you to stay.

I am not for a realism but you brought up how living on a tube of ice cream a day wasn't realistic and I said it was.

Heck by your posts here this game doesn't seem to fit what you and only you seem to like so why bother?

 

[Rathlord]

I didn't mention realism in my post iirc. I still hold that it would be immersion breaking as a system, but once again as long as it is not connected to normal survival I'd not be against it.

While you're correct that realism =|= immersion as far as 1:1 ratios go, it does play into immersion, especially in the survival genre. A large par to what the devs strive to do with this game is forgo the normal "game-yness" that typically plagues this genre, and I respect that.

[CliffExcellent]

I didn't mention realism in my post iirc. I still hold that it would be immersion breaking as a system, but once again as long as it is not connected to normal survival I'd not be against it.

While you're correct that realism =|= immersion as far as 1:1 ratios go, it does play into immersion, especially in the survival genre. A large par to what the devs strive to do with this game is forgo the normal "game-yness" that typically plagues this genre, and I respect that.

You can be immersive without being realistic though. it's more to do with ignoring the actual nuts and bolts of the game and just enjoying the experience. Realism can break it if it's something obvious, like if a historical game set in the 18th Century had Napoleon speaking in a Valley Girl accent or something.

 

My immersion is broken when I think "Woah, the developers really dropped the ball there". Giving you some items for a tutorial and taking them away afterwards would not do this at all.

 

Giving you extra items just to teach you how to play the game and then taking them away would have no negative impact on the game whatsoever. Even if it forced you to do so the first time you played the game, wouldn't be a huge deal. A bit annoying maybe, but hardly going to ruin the experience for you.

[silents429]

Uh. We got it the first time thank you.

Not to mention Yahtzee's terms are opinions, and apply to finished games, not games in there Alpha stage, you have to be a complete moron to come into an early access game and let some bugs ruin the whole experience for you.

Just wait til Beta, if you can't handle it.

[Kajin]

It all makes sense now! CliffExcellent is a robot and he's gotten trapped in a dialogue loop!

[/joke]

 

That aside, I think that The Last Stand game mode could be modified and used as a basic stand alone tutorial. Then it takes you through a step by step orientation process, getting you ready to fight the undead for the first time by teaching you basic movement controls, how to equip weapons, barricade doors and windows, all of that stuff.

 

Fighting to survive as long as I could in The Last Stand taught me enough about PZ to help me survive day to day in the main game, though I still had to learn most of the rest of it on my own.

[CliffExcellent]

Uh. We got it the first time thank you.

Not to mention Yahtzee's terms are opinions, and apply to finished games, not games in there Alpha stage, you have to be a complete moron to come into an early access game and let some bugs ruin the whole experience for you.

Just wait til Beta, if you can't handle it.

Um, I don't recall saying they ruin the whole game for me. They do at the moment I suppose, but I'll keep checking back to see if they've been fixed. It was just an example. Christ it's like you're trying to find something to complain about. Just because it's in alpha doesn't mean it's immune to criticism. That's the entire point of having an alpha in the first place. If the developers couldn't handle criticism then they wouldn't bother with alpha funding.

 

And no, the definition of a word is not an opinion and applies to all games equally. Why the hell would being an alpha change the meaning of a word? Are you mental?

[silents429]

 

Uh. We got it the first time thank you.

Not to mention Yahtzee's terms are opinions, and apply to finished games, not games in there Alpha stage, you have to be a complete moron to come into an early access game and let some bugs ruin the whole experience for you.

Just wait til Beta, if you can't handle it.

Um, I don't recall saying they ruin the whole game for me. They do at the moment I suppose, but I'll keep checking back to see if they've been fixed. It was just an example. Christ it's like you're trying to find something to complain about. Just because it's in alpha doesn't mean it's immune to criticism. That's the entire point of having an alpha in the first place. If the developers couldn't handle criticism then they wouldn't bother with alpha funding.

 

And no, the definition of a word is not an opinion and applies to all games equally. Why the hell would being an alpha change the meaning of a word? Are you mental?

 

Oh yeah thats why he starts off his list by saying what they mean to him.

They are immune because you can't use terms like that for a game in its alpha stage when its easily subject to change, when its released then go ahead and use them, but your criticism isn't helpful, your using it incorrectly.

 

And No I am not finding reasons to complain, your complaining about a 4 dev team not being able to do what a triple A company is capable of in less time, this is evident you constantly complain about them not polishing bugs and a adding the "right" features, your not critising the game, you've been responding to people to disagree with, why not post in the suggestions a list of SUGGESTIONS, instead of going around trying to decline everyone else. And I don't mean like your other topic, I mean make a list of a features you want changed and to what, and for what reason, thats how you should go about informing the dev on your opinion.

[CliffExcellent]

 

 

Uh. We got it the first time thank you.

Not to mention Yahtzee's terms are opinions, and apply to finished games, not games in there Alpha stage, you have to be a complete moron to come into an early access game and let some bugs ruin the whole experience for you.

Just wait til Beta, if you can't handle it.

Um, I don't recall saying they ruin the whole game for me. They do at the moment I suppose, but I'll keep checking back to see if they've been fixed. It was just an example. Christ it's like you're trying to find something to complain about. Just because it's in alpha doesn't mean it's immune to criticism. That's the entire point of having an alpha in the first place. If the developers couldn't handle criticism then they wouldn't bother with alpha funding.

 

And no, the definition of a word is not an opinion and applies to all games equally. Why the hell would being an alpha change the meaning of a word? Are you mental?

 

Oh yeah thats why he starts off his list by saying what they mean to him.

 

And No I am not finding reasons to complain, your complaining about a 4 dev team not being able to do what a triple A company is capable of in less time, this is evident you constantly complain about them not polishing bugs and a adding the "right" features, your not critising the game, you've been responding to people to disagree with, why not post in the suggestions a list of SUGGESTIONS, instead of going around trying to decline everyone else. And I don't mean like your other topic, I mean make a list of a features you want changed and to what, and for what reason, thats how you should go about informing the dev on your opinion.

 

Or... you know, both? A suggestion doesn't have to be something you think should be added, it can be something you want to be changed. The entire point of an alpha is to point out what's bad about it so that it can be fixed. The Indie Stone is a big boy now, you don't need to defend them. If they didn't want criticism, they wouldn't have gone to alpha funding. Blindly accepting everything the developers do isn't going to help them anywhere.

 

And by your logic, an alpha can not be unbalanced. This is wrong. Project Zomboid is clearly unbalanced. Also by your logic, an alpha cannot be buggy. This is wrong. Project Zomboid is clearly buggy. By pointing out that it's unbalanced and buggy, the developers can fix these problems. That is what criticism is for, and that is why the developers chose to do an alpha. DO YOU SEE.

 

Suggestions like "Oh my god wouldn't it be totally cool if this game had machine guns bro!" are all very well but they're not really going to help make a better game are they.

 

What I actually should have said is that you're a whingey fanboy who has no idea what he's talking about. But I didn't, because that would be mean. I've said it now though, I get a wee bit narky when people act like they're so smart when they're clearly not talking sense.