Control fire

[clankill3r]

I think fire could use some more work in PZ. It's the thing I dislike the most about PZ at the moment.

It just keeps going and going.

 

I did the winter is coming challenge, it looked remove grass helped there to prevent the fire but I could be wrong. Thank god it also started raining quite soon the map got on fire again so this time I was lucky.

 

Anyway:

 

-asphalt should not burn, this would make fire already so much better.

-dig ground should help to prevent fire from further expanding.

 

I think with those 2 above some frustration would go away

 

Then as a extra, it would be nice if the zombies got attracted to the smell of the fire. So the come from the opposite direction the wind is going.

[CaptKaspar]

I get what you're saying about fire spreading on asphalt, but if you asked any firefighter, they would tell you that fire can and does find ways to cross roads. Right now fire spreading on asphalt allows for fire to cross roads, which it realistically would.

 

Without wind, proper tree sizing, and the limits of the current engine, I think this is the only way to simulate that. Roads are not absolute barriers to fire.

 

I def agree that digging around a fire should help. This is a common tactic in battling forest fires. Again though I think it should still spread through the dug up area to allow fire to spread beyond the dig line (which does realistically happen). But, that the dig line should burn for less time, decreasing the chances of the fire spreading.

[clankill3r]

The condition to get asphalt to burn is very rare. At the moment a running zombie will do

 

I would like if fire can span some range. It could be indicated by particles flying around.

 

But for now I think some more intelligent fire would help improve the game a lot.

[BurnTheWitch]

I get what you're saying about fire spreading on asphalt, but if you asked any firefighter, they would tell you that fire can and does find ways to cross roads. Right now fire spreading on asphalt allows for fire to cross roads, which it realistically would.

 

Kind of. It depends on the type of fire. Ordinary house fires for instance do not generally cross roads and spread far enough apart wont even set their neighbours house on fire. I have personally set bonfires and not even seen the fence go up despite being less than 10 feet away, and near as i can tell most buildings are detached in this game, many being just as far apart if not further apart then they are wide. There is a good chance it wouldnt even spread to its neighbours.

 

On the wikipedia page for firebreak the very first sentence says certain roads can be used to break even wild fires: logging road, four wheel drive trail, secondary road or highway. The problem is you only have one type of road, which is not realistic. The road connecting west point to muldraugh for instance is 2 lanes either side, and then a break down lane as well (6 total) not to mention barriers and the meridian, and I would be rather surprised if a fire could cross it. I'm not saying they don't spread, I know they definately do, but from a realism perspective there are good chances they wont spread in these circumstances.

 

Even if it was realistic to expect the entire world to burn to the ground because of a badly placed molotov cocktail, or because you accidently left the oven on, is that really what you want in the game? If we are talking realism then rain wouldn't even put it out. It would still survive in buildings, and any missed embers can reignite fires. Fires are something we should have in the game, but like carpentry skill shouldn't really be totally 100% realistic, because it would hurt the flow of the game. I would be ok with a block, or 2 being destroyed. 3 or 4 could be possible with a bad combination of factors, but any more than that and I think would ruin the game.

[CaptKaspar]

 

I get what you're saying about fire spreading on asphalt, but if you asked any firefighter, they would tell you that fire can and does find ways to cross roads. Right now fire spreading on asphalt allows for fire to cross roads, which it realistically would.

 

Kind of. It depends on the type of fire. Ordinary house fires for instance do not generally cross roads and spread far enough apart wont even set their neighbours house on fire. I have personally set bonfires and not even seen the fence go up despite being less than 10 feet away, and near as i can tell most buildings are detached in this game, many being just as far apart if not further apart then they are wide. There is a good chance it wouldnt even spread to its neighbours.

 

On the wikipedia page for firebreak the very first sentence says certain roads can be used to break even wild fires: logging road, four wheel drive trail, secondary road or highway. The problem is you only have one type of road, which is not realistic. The road connecting west point to muldraugh for instance is 2 lanes either side, and then a break down lane as well (6 total) not to mention barriers and the meridian, and I would be rather surprised if a fire could cross it. I'm not saying they don't spread, I know they definately do, but from a realism perspective there are good chances they wont spread in these circumstances.

 

Even if it was realistic to expect the entire world to burn to the ground because of a badly placed molotov cocktail, or because you accidently left the oven on, is that really what you want in the game? If we are talking realism then rain wouldn't even put it out. It would still survive in buildings, and any missed embers can reignite fires. Fires are something we should have in the game, but like carpentry skill shouldn't really be totally 100% realistic, because it would hurt the flow of the game. I would be ok with a block, or 2 being destroyed. 3 or 4 could be possible with a bad combination of factors, but any more than that and I think would ruin the game.

 

 

I get what you are saying, but you are making some observations based on our current modern world.

 

Imagine you're in any Apocalyptic scenario: There will not be a fire department showing up to contain the blaze or prevent other nearby structures from catching fire. There is likely going to be tall grass, weeds, vines, shrubs, and other vegetation growing that normally wouldn't be there, adding fuel for the fire. There will be leaves in the gutters and on the roofs. Doors and windows will be open/broken. General property maintenance that would help prevent the spread of fires, will not be happening.

 

ie. There is going to be a lot more fuel to help fire spread, and a lot less protection to prevent it.

 

Whether or not the area has been dry or if there is any wind will also make a major difference. Try telling residents of the western US where literally hundreds of thousands of acres have burned this year alone, that have lost everything, that fire will not spread from house to house or find a way to jump roads. This happened with professional fire fighting crews doing everything they could. Fire fighting crews were even brought in from Canada, New Zealand, and Australia to help. It was just too dry for too long. They tried to dig fire lines and remove undergrowth, but it just wasn't enough.

 

If its not a drought, its not windy, property is properly maintained, and professional fire fighters are on hand, yeah the fire probably won't spread. That's the idea. But if just one of those things are present (or not present) then the likelihood of the fire spreading goes up.

 

I think we can all agree that fire needs some work in the game. I don't think anyone considers it a finished product yet.

 

Ideally, I would like to see drought play a factor. Our crops know how long its been since they were last watered, so I don't see it as too much of a stretch to account for that. Also tall grass and shrubs should have a higher chance of burning (if they don't already) than short grass. Without wind in the game, its hard to simulate how fire would spread across roads, etc. I know they recently made some tweaks to how long certain tiles can burn for. Maybe some additional tweaking is needed.

 

Also, I would love to see fire extinguish (or spread) when a map cell is not loaded. Right now you can have a fire, leave the cell, come back a month later, and the fire is exactly how you last left it. If we want to make any realism tweaks, I think this is where it is most needed.

[uberevan]

I get what you're saying about fire spreading on asphalt, but if you asked any firefighter, they would tell you that fire can and does find ways to cross roads. Right now fire spreading on asphalt allows for fire to cross roads, which it realistically would.

 

Without wind, proper tree sizing, and the limits of the current engine, I think this is the only way to simulate that. Roads are not absolute barriers to fire.

 

I def agree that digging around a fire should help. This is a common tactic in battling forest fires. Again though I think it should still spread through the dug up area to allow fire to spread beyond the dig line (which does realistically happen). But, that the dig line should burn for less time, decreasing the chances of the fire spreading.

I think just adding wind will help immensely, because it can interact with zombie smelling, body temperature, hunting, and so much more.

[BurnTheWitch]

Well if we are going to speak of realism then the lack of herbivores is the only reason why plants and grass and whatnot would get out of control. Windows traditionally break under the heat of most house fires, and the lack of fire fighters doesn't affect bonfires analogy which happen all over the place, without problems.

 

Yes I am aware of wildfires in the US and Australia. But that doesn't change the fact that roads can be used as fire breaks. Here is a link from the oklahoma government for instance: http://www.ok.gov/conservation/documents/FirebreaksforPrescribedBurning.pdf which quite clearly says:

 

"Most roads make excellent firebreaks because they are bare ground and already in place. There are several types of roads that can be used as firebreaks. Two track roads, or pasture roads can be used as effective firebreaks".

 

But the main point isn't whether it would be realistic or not, the main point is whether or not the game is fun, isnt that the whole point of games period? Is it more or less fun to have cataclismic fires? Well I guess that would be down to personal taste. So I propose a comprimise. Let's have fire behaviour customisable, so that you can decide whether or not you want to turn on asphalt fire spreading or not? We have a custom mode for a reason dont we? I personally want to be able to use molotov cocktails, without literally breaking the entire game. I don't think its rational to have a recipe in the game that cant really be used because literally any fire you start cant be stopped and will spread forever. But if that's what you want, I don't see any reason to stop you. It's your enjoyment and game, not mine.

[Gaffa Tape Warrior]

Windows traditionally break under the heat of most house fires

What a strange tradition.