Boiling Water

[Feranoks]

Something I noticed and was bothering me a bit.

 

With the abilty to catch water in barrels and the added bodies of water. Getting water is made a bit more realistic, wich is very much a good thing. But right know you just seem to scoop up what you need in your water bottle and drink as much as you want. Something that is just not wise to do if you do not want to die of infections in real life.

 

I do not know if this is something that will be put in evantually but my suggestion is that water should be boiled before drinking it, esspecially water from pools and such.

 

Things that would tie in to this abilty would be:

 

-Somekind of way to track dirtiness of water, similarly to food rotting

-The increased risk of illness when drinking dirty water (because you're not able to boil it right away)

-Maybe a craftable way to purify water with simple things like a barrel + sand + charcoal( both found in bags and collected from campfires) + sheet

- A distinction between boiled water and purified water ( boiled water may still be dirty but decreases change of illnes significantly)

-Water collected from when water supplies are still working would be clean but maybe after the water supplies have been cut, the water still remaining in the pipes would start to get dirty after a while

-...

[dra6o0n]

Extreme realism can truly and greatly ruin the game by making it take longer processes or generally doing more boring stuff.

 

Making it so you have to boil water every time just to drink it is a bit of a hassle, for gameplay sake.

 

It only make sense to boil water that might be contaminated, like lake water or the likes.

 

Plus there are these chemicals one could use to clean water to some extent, and make it drinkable...

 

I'm pretty sure chlorine isn't one of them as it does make the water clean, but also dangerous to consume. There are these products sold in stores, mostly camping stores and the likes, that lets you put tablets into water source to 'purify' them somewhat.

 

 

It makes more sense to add boiling water and this above product in as a item, AFTER the proper implementation of item quality levels.

 

Meaning when you grab water from wells, you can 'check' it's water levels for contamination without inflicting harm to yourself.

[Feranoks]

Yeah, I get what you mean with it becoming tedious wich is why it would have to be well balanced and maybe even an option that could be turned on/off in sandbox. Adding things to make this easier and such. You can leave a big pot of water on a fire unsuprivised without any risk since it can't burn like food would. It would certainly be something to be added later in development like you said, for sure.

 

And I certainly didn't mean that you would have to boil everything you would come accros. Rain water and streaming water in general is safe to drink so their change of getting disseases should be very low. But drinking water that has been standing still in pipes or rain barrels and just in general still water would become very dangerous to drink after say a couple of months. Also I think that since it's a Zombie Apocalypse with lots of death and lack of hygiene in general (no working toilets ) clean water in streams would become harder. Making lakes and streams become more and more infected as time in game progresses.

 

The main reason I would add this is so that the late game becomes more interesting and more in line of the "to be" implemented systems of hunting and fishing (wish would also involve more cooking) and making it harder to go on scavaging runs with one bottle of water and filling it up wherever you go. Adding more meaning to your safe house and the equipment and stored water you have there. Even mitagating some of the downtime you have when it rains for example. Instead of skipping the day by just waiting indoors you could start to filter and purify the water you have.

 

PS: Totally forgot those tablets existed could be a nice lootable item in conjunction with my suggestion

[Rathlord]

The fact of the matter is, people lived for thousands of years without water systems like we have now. All it takes is the most basic of common sense to avoid being sick- don't drink from stagnant pools of water lying on the ground. Any moving water or water that gets changed regularly (such as a rain barrel) are incredibly unlikely to get you sick. In reality, there's little reason to add this to the game in my opinion- making any noticeable chance to get sick from our current sources of water would actually be less realistic than never getting sick.

 

Also, if this was going to be added, we could use something already in the game to do it. Bleach, for example, at a rate of about 2 drops to the gallon of water can be used to kill most pathogens in lieu of boiling (or in addition). Towels can be used to strain water, etc.

[Invader Jim]

Also, if this was going to be added, we could use something already in the game to do it. Bleach, for example, at a rate of about 2 drops to the gallon of water can be used to kill most pathogens in lieu of boiling (or in addition). Towels can be used to strain water, etc.

 

So we are supposed to drink the bleach in PZ! 

[Feranoks]

I see what you mean but there are some flaws in your theory.

 

- People definitley did not drink plain uncleaned water ever in recorded history. They would drink beer or wine.

- You are drinking any water you find daily. That is allot even 1% change of getting you sick for something this commonly consumed is allot. Minor things like diarea could have a severe impact on your survival

- Rain water is definatly not as clean as you would think ( http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/rainwater-collection.html , http://chemistry.about.com/od/waterchemistry/fl/Can-You-Drink-Rain-Water.htm, for some examples )

- Since the rain water in Project Zomboid is mostly stored in barrels I think you definitly would create a problem after a while since they are not the most "clean" envoirement (think of mold or others) even covering it in a garbage bag for example would only solve that problem temporarly. You are keeping your water in a stagnant container outside for weeks on end possibly without any use.

- River can not be trusted if you want to keep you health there are so many unknowns ( http://healthvermont.gov/enviro/water/lake_river.aspx )

- People get sick form or in the worst case die because of dirty water even today think of third world countries. Wich is what our world would turn into.

- I think most importantly is the fact that we are talking about the world with an extremely dangerous infection, admittedly you could say that the virus or parisite or wathever makes you turn into a zombie would not survive in water. Still you are living in a world with walking corpses and dead bodies everywere, Something that is rotting in a river miles away could pollute it in extreme ways.

- Adding bleach to water is something that indeed would help (altough knowing the specific proportions or even the fact that it would work is not something I would consider common knoweldge, but this might be something you could find in-game trough finding and reading an encyclopedia for example). http://www.csgnetwork.com/h2oemergencypurifycalc.html

- Using a towel to purify would not work a coffee filter maybe but even then?

 

Most of my suggestion is based on what I've seen in survival shows or for a more specific example "The Colony" on Discovery Channel, wich was a show that follows a group of people who had to survive in a simulated post-apocalyptic environment. Of course it's ultimatly not my deccision but since PZ goes for a realistic survival feel, I think this is definitley something you can't ingore and in the end when implemented correctly would not be more tedious to do then waiting while fishing or cooking.

[uberevan]

WANT

It's a good concept that would surely add to the game

[Rathlord]

People did not subsist on wine and beer for thousands of years mate. Did they drink a large proportion of it? Yes. Is it safer than water? Yes. Did they subsist on it? No. I think you should have another look at recorded history.

 

We live in a very cushy, silly world. Moving water and water that is changed regularly (as a water barrel) are going to be safe 99.9999% of the time. That doesn't mean that you should go around drinking water you find everywhere- we have better ways now. But to think that the water in the world around us is toxic and deadly is just... hilariously wrong. Especially in backwater Kentucky- there are no major industrial centers polluting there. Yes, the CDC and government advisories will warn you that everything, everywhere is deadly (that's their job). There are many, many things that can make you sick, but the likelihood of that is very small.

 

You've been watching too much TV mate. Survival shows are a joke- humanity has subsisted in the wilderness for FAR longer than we have subsisted in riches. The fact of the matter is, yes, life sucks. Yes, there is a higher morality rate without modern society. No, it is not impossible.

 

Your view on water is simply ridiculous as proven by all of history. I don't really know what else to say, it's hard to respond seriously to something so vastly not based on fact. Your views border on the insane- to suggest that people didn't drink water in ALL OF RECORDED HISTORY is just... mind boggling. I think you've just gotten upset because I pointed out that your statements were wrong, and now you've gotten yourself entrenched in your own point of view and refusing to see reason.

[Feranoks]

I certainly didn't feel attacked or anything. And if you felt this way because of my response, it definitley wasn't meant that way. I care about the game because I love playing it, even in this early stage so I trust you guys know what your doing. My reply was simply a response to your "fact of the matter" statements wich I feel aren't neccesairly true. So I responded with what knoweldge I knew and could find.

 

Something I immediatly think of when put in a hypotatical survival situation is getting shelter, fire, and clean water. Is this mostly based on things I saw on TV? Yes. And I know those shows are just made for sensation and the situations that happen are influencend in such a way they produce the most exciting television. But I don't think the information and tips they give are neccesairly wrong. And I definitley didn't mean they would not drink water in the past, if it came over like that then that is my fault and I apoligise. What I meant is that they would primarly drink beer or wine because they could not rely on the safety of the water.

 

I don't know we might be seeing things from way diffrent angles but I still feel there are people who might also like this suggestion and that is what I thought this forum is about. People comming up with suggestions and seeing if the community thinks it should be in the game or not. That way the Devs can decide if it's something they want in their game. Right now I feel like this is being shut down by one person who feels very differently then I do on this subject, but happens to have a more deciding role. I still think it's something worth considering and talking about because it's a real issue in the world even right now.

[Rathlord]

Most of the issues with water are in desert areas or areas with extremely low rainfall through parts of the year. That allows water to get tepid, and for insects and bacteria to settle in. It's also a big problem where malaria is common.

 

Kentucky is not like that. Kentucky sees good amounts of rainfall throughout the year and the water never actually gets tepid except for small pools sitting in ditches and such.

 

You're also missing the fact that most of the water in the game is actually scavenged from houses, which would be clean anyways. After that it's rainwater, and rainwater in rural areas falling straight into a clean container simply does not cause illness.

 

Thing is, yes, it's better to drink clean water. I'm not arguing that- it's just smarter to do. But in an area like KY, the chances of getting ill in a lifetime of drinking it are almost nil.

[deprav]

I do like this suggestion ! Imo water is too easy/quick to get and used right now, and the quality of water should be a concern. Not necessarily treating any water you'll find, and boiling water in rain containers, but at least emptying your rain container and cleaning it once in a while to "renew" the quality.

As for water streams and lakes, just for the sake of not knowing if there's a corpse rotting in it, boiling/treating it would be a nice add.

@Rathlord,

Imo it's a "situational safety". Yes, the humanity has survived for thousands of years without treated water, but the humanity as yet to encounter an epic deadly plague that reanimates our deads ;p

Plus, we've survived with untreated water for thousands of years, but large scale chemical & industrial pollution is pretty "new".

[mikaelkerensky]

I certainly didn't feel attacked or anything. And if you felt this way because of my response, it definitley wasn't meant that way. I care about the game because I love playing it, even in this early stage so I trust you guys know what your doing. My reply was simply a response to your "fact of the matter" statements wich I feel aren't neccesairly true. So I responded with what knoweldge I knew and could find.

Something I immediatly think of when put in a hypotatical survival situation is getting shelter, fire, and clean water. Is this mostly based on things I saw on TV? Yes. And I know those shows are just made for sensation and the situations that happen are influencend in such a way they produce the most exciting television. But I don't think the information and tips they give are neccesairly wrong. And I definitley didn't mean they would not drink water in the past, if it came over like that then that is my fault and I apoligise. What I meant is that they would primarly drink beer or wine because they could not rely on the safety of the water.

I don't know we might be seeing things from way diffrent angles but I still feel there are people who might also like this suggestion and that is what I thought this forum is about. People comming up with suggestions and seeing if the community thinks it should be in the game or not. That way the Devs can decide if it's something they want in their game. Right now I feel like this is being shut down by one person who feels very differently then I do on this subject, but happens to have a more deciding role. I still think it's something worth considering and talking about because it's a real issue in the world even right now.

Excellent response. In your situation I don't think I would've handled this situation as well as you did. Rath, I love you man, you're an excellent moderator and a really smart guy. That being said, I've noticed some of your responses can get a little bit personal. Stating someone is ridiculous, laughable and borderline insane for an idea like boiling water in a post apocalyptic setting is upsetting to say the least. I know this is off topic, so if i get warned so be it. If this isn't the place to say these kinds of things please let me know and I'll respond in a more appropriate manner.

[Rathlord]

My apologies if I came off a bit harsh. As someone with a lot of real wilderness survival and hunting experience, it's frustrating to deal with people misrepresenting reality day in and day out. For the record, though, I tend to say ideas are ridiculous, rather than people.

[mikaelkerensky]

No problem bro. I appreciate the response. My own psychological makeup just took your response as an attack (because of language used). I didn't respond at the time because i didn't want to respond to harshly to a critique. Thanks for the response to my concern. Once again, love you bro (no homo ). And people aren't necessarily misrepresenting reality. They are responding to external stimuli based on personal experience and information they've obtained from external sources. This is both the greateat strength and greatest weakness of our species. We can write, and thus preserve information, for generations. But if you take everything at face value you eventually get hit by the fact that not all humans are honest/know enough to justify what they tell you.

[Wilson SDS]

I agree with Rathlord, boil water in many parts of the game is implicit, like when you make a ramen. And adding bleach would (right proportions) would save you.