ORGM Rechambered
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1 hour ago, Elmore said:

needs to be “finalized” and why the “numbers” here, as for me, are necessary:
 no exact data?


majority of players will simply use the “about the best / any suitable” available to choose from, without really bothering. It is because they have no data for a deliberate choice - and this seems to me to be wrong.

 

 It must be remembered that players have very little knowledge of real weapons, ammunition, etc. And for them you need to adapt the mod, for example by adding information in numbers, which can be disabled if desired.

 

 

This mod is about as unforgiving as the REAL world it's designed to portray is going to be... You said yourself, that you are not inclined to even Google the information you seek... The data gives me a headache too, and it's one of my favorite hobby's...

 

You can usually read on the barrel of any given firearm, what kind of ammo it uses.... And that's about all you get for free... It doesn't say anything on there about how far it can shoot, or how many plates of 1/4" steel it can penetrate...  (You find that info on YouTube)

 

The Box the ammo comes in, will usually specify the weight of the projectile & velocity its loaded to fire at with whatever length barrel they use for testing. And with that information you can calculate the amount of energy it delivers at the muzzle...  But anything beyond that would require a fair amount of research unless you happen to have ballistics data handy...

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume Fenris disabled the Debug option he mentioned above to preserve this Realism....

 

No info bubble pops up when you pick up a firearm.... If you want to know about it, you read the manual, go out and shoot it at the range, and research it on the internet, etc...  All of which takes time and it not automatically available upon contact with the firearm.

 

The reason I like to peek into the Debug info, and in prior versions, the script data, is to verify what I already know to see how far (realistic) this mod is taking it... To this, i'll just say weapon weights are scaled from real values...  This alone is mindblowing!! because weight capacity is such a commodity in this game, and it just adds to the realism...

 

So back to my point....  Most people including myself at this exact moment cant tell you by how much a 30-30 round will hit in terms of joules of energy compared to a .357 magnum if fired from a 16.25" barrel carbine with a manual breach at a distance of 50 yards...  A good portion of people from reading things online, in magazines, or playing video games, can tell you which one is MORE powerful.... but not necessarily by how much...  With the modern internet, you can with minimal effort look it up on some ballistic data source and take their word for it.... Or you can go out with all the stuff, a chronograph, and get real numbers that you could take to the bank....

 

Now I've only done that with a few calibers I shoot frequently.... and some of what I have, I have no data for at all.... Except a mainstream idea of which one is more powerful than the other, and some paper targets and/or video to chronicle accuracy with certain handloads...  This is state of things in terms of readily available information for myself, whom I consider, as Fenris put it.... an "Enthusiast"

 

SO.....   In the spirit of realism....  If you pick something up and start using it.... (like a .38 snubnose)  and find that you can't hit shit with it. You'd have to make a mental note of it....  if you pick up an SMG/Pistol Caliber carbine, that uses the same ammo as your handgun, and find that the effective range is still lacking compared to rifles that use larger caliber "rifle ammo"....   again, make a mental note of it....

 

There is simply no "instantly available" Cliff notes other than the internet, and the internet is DOWN because of the zombies !!!

 

 

If I understand your post, All the info you seek is in the Debug window should you choose to enable it...

 

 

 

 

Edited by Arsenal26
To edit something

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Debug gives information, but it is too much and it is of a different type.
Okay, forget the numbers.

 

A small offer list:

1) In the previous version of the mod there were more varieties of bullets. Now FMJ and HP remain ... shared\4DataFiles\ORGMData_Ammo.lua
Their difference:
FMJ - lower damage but higher piercing
HP - higher damage but lower piercing
Why not add such information to the description of the bullets in the game.

 

2) The list of weapons to which the module fits - the text is written in 1 line and it does not fit on the screen "15" with a resolution of 1366x768

 

3) I think WD-40 needs to add at least some description in order to understand what it is and what it is used for. Especially important for players with Hydrocraft

 

4) Add some kind of designation, how many and what modules can be placed on the weapon. For example, that on a clean shotgun there can be 5 such-and-such modules. This can be added to the weapon inspection menu. Now only the already attached module is displayed.

 

5) Add interaction with modules and bullets in an open vault. So that if modules (in large quantities) and bullets are in the ..table, you could use the menu to install them without transferring everything to the inventory.

Edited by Elmore

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3 hours ago, Elmore said:

1) In the previous version of the mod there were more varieties of bullets. Now FMJ and HP remain

There was never 'more' varieties, in fact the older versions had quite a bit less. The number of bullet types has effectively doubled from the older versions.

 

2) The list not displaying properly is annoying but its hardcoded into the java files. Without implementing completely new tooltip code (something I plan to do at a later point anyways) theres not much that can be done about it.

 

3) WD-40 and its intended use is set to change for the v3.10 branch, currently it works as a 'repair item', where in the next major update when cleaning the firearm becomes important its more of a 'maintenance item' (sort of)

 

4) As mentioned before, the attachments/components (aka: 'modules') is going to be completely redone. At the moment all guns technically have those 5 slots as they are part of PZ's base code (canon, scope, recoil, clip, stock).

The new planned system will work much different, where these components will be more like a branching tree structure: those components (modules) will have slots for attaching more.

Using a shotgun as a example, a recoil pad attaches to the stock, that stock can be removed and replaced with a pistol grip, and suddenly there is no more spot for a recoil pad. Barrels on many shotguns can be swapped: Some have a built in choke that can not be removed, some barrels have threads allowing you to attach a threaded choke.

The current attachments/components I do not waste time working on these when I have such a massive over hall on how that system works planned.

As for the Inspection Window, the current version was very much a early prototype and no where near its final version, and will hopefully go through some drastic changes in v3.10.

 

5) The reason it doesn't allow for this is it seriously complicates the code and runs the risk of creating some extreme bugs.

 

 

As I said the upgrading of this mod from the old legacy version is still very much a work-in-progress. Many parts of it have been ignored or left under developed while I work on more important parts that need to be developed first. The parts that I do still need to work on will be gotten to eventually when its their time.

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I would like to suggest that making so you cant get bored if you are reloading a magazine, you shouldnt get bored by doing that imo :P

 

 

And reloading a magazine should also remove boredom if you already have some. 

 

 

I love this mod! It's amazing, I have so much fun with it!

 

Will there be new weapons and models in the future? Perhaps more light machine guns, the p90 model is ugly af and the vepr12 model looks just like the akm, hope a replacement model comes for it!

Edited by josko_91

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I would also like to suggest so you can take magazines of weapons directly from the body rather than having to grab the gun.

 

The ammo cans for bb guns are way too little,  it should be 500 per can otherwise you run out of the bbs and cant train aiming as good.

 

Also increase all the ammo cans from 200/250 to 500 rounds, those types of ammo are quite rare and I feel it would be better if they had 500 rounds instead, 200/250 is way too little :D

 

The shotgunshells are fine at 250 rounds though

Edited by josko_91

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Will you be adding the M60? As it uses 7.62x51mm rounds it would make it a nice addition to the mod, perhaps some variations of the m249 too!

 

I know filibuster rhymes has to make a model for them^^

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Will you be adding Extended Magazines to ORGM? Like for example, the FN Five Seven can have a Extended Magazine with 30 round capacity instead of the standard 20.

That would be awesome to have :P

 

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Awesome! Are you working on the next version or are you waiting for the animation update? I suppose all the guns have to be reanimated when the animation update hits, right? 

 

Im gonna try learn the tools anf try make nice models and animations for ORGM <3

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3 hours ago, josko_91 said:

Are you working on the next version or are you waiting for the animation update? I suppose all the guns have to be reanimated when the animation update hits, right? 

Work always continues. Usually after a major release though I try and hold off a bit messing with big features just in case the current stable needs a patching. That way the patch isn't including some half completed feature in it.

So well 'most' of the features planned for v3.10 are on hold (like the extended/reduced capacity mags) , some have crept into the next patch v3.09.2.

Spoilers for what I've been doing since the last update:

Spoiler

New Tooltips:

5bddc553ce795_Screenshotfrom2018-10-2319-00-51.thumb.png.b6bec3810d8a638ece81ddc13a507c11.png

5bddc587d4054_Screenshotfrom2018-10-2319-01-21.thumb.png.1df45fb50eecc9571afc0e3a55a777bf.png

 

Currently the tooltips can be set to multiple styles, including 'dynamic' which changes the info shown based on your aiming skill.

Also note that scope no longer has totally broken tooltip stretching across the screen (yay!). These layouts/designs aren't finalized yet.

 

Minor bugfixes and cosmetic upgrades (sorting options screen into groups etc)

 

Almost all the guns have unique models now thanks to Filibuster, he's been working like crazy redoing them from scratch.

 

And offtopic, I've developed a framework that loads PZ's lua files (and ORGM) and is capable of executing ORGM's code from outside of PZ. Mostly to be used for testing and debugging the mod..since its now possible to run a series of automated tests before releasing updates.

A unexpected bonus of this new framework is its given birth to a Discord info bot, that actually has the mod loaded:

The bot "spawns" firearms, load a round in the chamber, calls the setup and sets the stats, all using ORGM's actual code.

5bddcb877847b_Screenshotfrom2018-11-0210-49-34.thumb.png.9b2fb2abd779abbb1fc654892c1584ad.png

 

5bddcd4f7b15f_Screenshotfrom2018-11-0210-49-55.thumb.png.46a5e66837f9793c7668c809a9723ef5.png

 

 

 

As for animations, not quite sure what changes it will force on us wont really know until the initial builds start getting released.

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Ohhh... sweet

 

So for the weapon, is that [Inspection] or [mouse-over] info... Reason i'm askin is, sometimes trying to find a particular model is cumbersome due to having to equip to inspect. I understand that not all people can determine this with a cursory glance, thus the need to pickup and inspect to verify. But maybe this info can be sort of unlocked on the Mouse over info based on skill level ?

 

Oops... Jus looked again... No tabs... so that's the new mouse over info!  cool

 

Edited by Arsenal26
doh

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1 minute ago, Arsenal26 said:

But maybe this info can be sort of unlocked on the Mouse over info based on skill level ?

Thats the mouse over tooltip I'm referring to (and screenshots) not the inspection window. The actual Inspection Window is due for a revamp as well, but thats a bigger task.

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Awesome stuff man! I really appreciate you taking the time talking about the mod, showing pictures and all that stuff! Can't wait to try out the next version! Best mod ever, they should make this official, that's how good it is!

I had no idea that filibuster rhymes were working on new models, fuckin awesome! So hyped! This mod really give new life to zomboid, this is what I've been waiting for so long!

I hope we get another LMG, maybe a M60 would be cool since it uses the 7.62x51 caliber, If I remember correctly, not many guns in ORGM atm uses that caliber so the M60 would be a nice addition, then just RIP the weapon sound from Left4Dead I suppose, I always liked that M60 firing sound ^^

I have no idea how he makes these models, I suppose it's pretty hard? But I think the animation update might screw the models, let's hope that WON'T be the case, don't want all of filibuster rhymes hard work being for nothing, but if anything they might need small " updates " to work with the new animation I guess, But we will see soon enough :)

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8 minutes ago, josko_91 said:

I had no idea that filibuster rhymes were working on new models

He's been doing some awesome stuff. Theres a few of them in the current 3.09.1-stable, mainly the AR styled rifles. BUT all the work he's done so far that aren't in the mod are in a patch he's assembled so you can enjoy them before the next update:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1532603119

 

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Also what happend to the Ammo sling from vanilla zomboid? You know the ammo sling that would let you reload faster, it would be nice to have that in ORGM, it could also let you reload magazines faster!

Thanks, but I think Im gonna wait for the next version of ORGM <3

When do you think you will release the next version? :P

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What would be really nice to have is, being able to set specific weapons a hotkey, like if you have a M16, put 1 as the hotkey, and if you have a Beretta 92FS, but 2 as a hotkey. Atm there is only hotkey for Pistols, Rifles, Shotguns in general.

Would love to have this implemented, I suppose it would need alot of coding though :/

I really like the Reload Any Magazine hotkey! It's so useful! hehe

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19 hours ago, josko_91 said:

Also what happend to the Ammo sling from vanilla zomboid?

All the current attachments were from the old legacy ORGM, Its really the one area that hasn't been touched on since Rechambered (yet)

 

19 hours ago, josko_91 said:

When do you think you will release the next version?

I don't actually have a release time. I was planning on releasing the 3.09.2 patches about a week after 3.09.1, but Fili kept making new models so I kept holding off a extra day(s), so started working on the tooltip stuff...then got distracted working on some other projects :mellow:

But the delay is totally going to be worth it. Doesn't look like any major bugs are requiring me to push the update now anyway, just a few minor ones I've identified.

 

16 hours ago, josko_91 said:

being able to set specific weapons a hotkey,

I did contemplate this in the initial hotkey setup, but there was a few things I had to consider:

a) The possibility of adding too many hotkeys. The more added the greater chance of conflicting with other mods that add keys. Even when rebinding is a option a few mods (especially survivors) + the vanilla keys and the keyboard starts to get really crowded.

b) Because of a), any hotkeys added needed to be minimal in numbers, and ultimately useful in most situations (the inspection window key is the exception)

 

I decided the pistol/rifle/shotgun keys were the best route to take, and they attempt to 'smart' chose the weapon.

First checks if for loaded guns, returns the one with highest damage.

If that fails it checks for guns you have ammo for and returns the one with the highest damage.

If you have no loaded guns, and no guns with ammo then it just gives you the highest damage.

 

I may set that though to prefer a gun that has been Favorited in the inventory window though.

 

16 hours ago, josko_91 said:

I really like the Reload Any Magazine hotkey! It's so useful!

Probably the most useful addition to the mod since bullets ;)

 

Edited by Fenris_Wolf

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I actually had no idea about the reload any magazine hotkey feature until much later, I used to load each magazine individually lol such pain. 

 

I guess the general rifle, pistol and shotgun hotkeys are fine, you dont really have that many guns on you anyway and that it chooses the gun that has ammo in it or is strongest is great :)

 

I suppose when you redo all the weapon attachment you will include more like maybe a silencer or ammo slings, extended mags like you said you have planned, cant wait^_^

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23 hours ago, Fenris_Wolf said:

 

Probably the most useful addition to the mod since bullets ;)

 

Nod's head in vigorous agreement.

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