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Firearm overhaul!

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i mainly use guns to draw z's away from where i want to loot, downtown areas are always congested, so i play a tune on the smoke stack and pied piper the fuckers on down the road, double back and loot.  i always level up aim skill though, it's nice when you are in a tight spot to hit number 2 key, resulting in a somewhat quick-ish draw, blast blast, run.  blast blast, run.  and repeat till there is sufficient clearance to clean your drawers if you are wearing any or to change you pants.  

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Guns should be high-maintenance, high-payoff. Currently they're no maintenance, lowish-payoff. The only things required for guns currently are a gun and the accompanying ammo.

 

Some ideas are gun cleaning kits, reloading ammo (refer to the PZ mod by the name), more useful attachments.
Such as described in the following post: http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/11862-durability-realismrepair/

They should require cleaning at the very least.
Overheating (for automatics) would be a plus
Replacement parts would be a plus

Additional attachments would be a plus

Pistols should be more accurate or an aiming system should be implemented (such as ctrl, like mentioned previously in the thread)
(if not implemented already) shotguns should make use of "pellets" and "slugs", where pellets would be good for spreading damage amongst zombies (or lethal at very close range), or slugs being lethal at close to medium ranges.

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i also suggested that guns have different ammo like dragons breath for the shotgun or hollow tip for the pistol. That and clips that make reloading the gun faster but require to be in the inventory and must be pre-loaded.

"Hardcore" mode in the options menu for reloading allows 9mm clips to be taken out of the gun, and reloaded.

It would be nice to see a couple new guns using magazines, as to give "Hardcore" more of a meaning, since pistols are common (I had 8 9mm magazines fully loaded in my build 29 save, no hassles for reloading)

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i also suggested that guns have different ammo like dragons breath for the shotgun or hollow tip for the pistol. That and clips that make reloading the gun faster but require to be in the inventory and must be pre-loaded.

"Hardcore" mode in the options menu for reloading allows 9mm clips to be taken out of the gun, and reloaded.

It would be nice to see a couple new guns using magazines, as to give "Hardcore" more of a meaning, since pistols are common (I had 8 9mm magazines fully loaded in my build 29 save, no hassles for reloading)

 

Lol. so anyway they are in the game?

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"Hardcore" mode in the options menu for reloading allows 9mm clips to be taken out of the gun, and reloaded.

It would be nice to see a couple new guns using magazines, as to give "Hardcore" more of a meaning, since pistols are common (I had 8 9mm magazines fully loaded in my build 29 save, no hassles for reloading)

 

Lol. so anyway they are in the game?

 

 

Sorry, got a little bit carried off...

Just turn your reloading difficulty to "Hardcore" in the options menu before starting/playing a game.

Find/acquire a pistol, reload it, and look at your inventory. There should be a 9mm mag (no icon)

right click on the mag to reload with bullets

Reload the mag back into the gun when ready

To rack guns (put a bullet into the chamber), hit "space" with the gun out

Semi-automatic weapons need to only be racked once per clip (pistol, not sure about rifles)

Shotguns need to be racked after each shot.

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Guns are supposed to attract zombies. You aren't supposed to be a master marksman or even a decent marksman just from the simple fact you pick up a gun and guns simply can't cause tiredness, they just can't. The fact is the myth that guns are "easy to use" as a lot of people like to claim is nonsense. It takes skill and long practice to properly learn how to use a gun. Especially in a panic situation. It's not like a bat where you can just swing and get the job done with very little to no skill what so ever. In a panic situation with a fire arm most people if not all people would be terribly off base. Even the best trained soldiers have made mistakes in panic scenarios and it doesn't matter how many times you practice, sometimes your basic instincts will take over and mistakes will be made.

 

Can't wipe out hordes with shotguns or handguns. Couldn't in real life and there's no reason you should be able to in PZ. Especially since the goal of the game is to fluidly and realistically increase difficulty. 

 

In my opinion fire arms exist for two reasons and two reasons only.

 

Reason 1: Emergencies. Such as an NPC with a fire arm or a horde you can't fight off and have to lure away.

 

Reason 2: Hunting.

I'll agree to disagree with some of your points. I just feel like they lack purpose, or are not as applicable. It's common sense that shooting can be difficult, but at a close distance with a human-sized target? Unless you're convulsing like mad, it's just pointing and pulling the trigger. Add some distance, and it becomes a lot more difficult. That's where skill comes in; anyone can pick up a gun and shoot something big in front of them.. but can they do that again, when they're forty yards away?

The thing about zombies, is that once they've bunched up in front of you, and all you have is a gun, you had better leg it. No matter how many times you pull the trigger, someone inexperienced and nerved up like insane is not going to headshot them all. I'm not disputing that, but to say that shooting is super hard unconditionally is bogus. I've fired weapons before. I'm not great, but I'm confident I can hit something without standing still and taking forever to aim at anything within ten feet of me.

The thing about zombie apocalypses though, is that standing in front of them and shooting them is a bad idea. You want to have some distance, and that's what separates common people from marksmen, in my opinion. I also like to think that someone who's in their mid twenties would have fired a gun before in their life, at some point.. or at least be given the option of a trait that helps it slightly.

 

 

The human body may be large but you seem to forget that zombies can only be killed with a shot to the head. Therefore their size is irrelevant. Unless their head is as large as their abdomen then it does you little good how large their abdomen is. xD

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If the game keeps progressing towards mini-quests and mini-plots then guns will be of use to do enough damage fast to save some dumb npc or reach other less than flexible goals, aided by finding just enough ammo to more or less compensate for using a firearm during a quest.

 

As a lover and admirer of a 7 days to die game, saying that I don't want to see another 7dtd here. No everlasting supply of ammo, no permanent base that is free from being at least temporarily overrun via a REALLY hard to counter zombie spam.

 

Instead of buffing firearms I'd suggest nerfing melee to make them more competitive. Via old post of mine stating that 1v1 melee would be as easy, whereas any other odds would be much more troublesome.

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/10623-discussion-on-multiplayer-melee-coop-actions/

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If the game keeps progressing towards mini-quests and mini-plots then guns will be of use to do enough damage fast to save some dumb npc or reach other less than flexible goals, aided by finding just enough ammo to more or less compensate for using a firearm during a quest.

 

As a lover and admirer of a 7 days to die game, saying that I don't want to see another 7dtd here. No everlasting supply of ammo, no permanent base that is free from being at least temporarily overrun via a REALLY hard to counter zombie spam.

 

Instead of buffing firearms I'd suggest nerfing melee to make them more competitive. Via old post of mine stating that 1v1 melee would be as easy, whereas any other odds would be much more troublesome.

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/10623-discussion-on-multiplayer-melee-coop-actions/

Why would you do that? Making melee weaker would just lower the power of everything. it would make it harder but then we have the same problem that guns are just about as good or better than melee. I see that it would create problems.

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Why would you do that? Making melee weaker would just lower the power of everything. it would make it harder but then we have the same problem that guns are just about as good or better than melee. I see that it would create problems.

 

There are several visions of what multi-zombie combat would look like. So all of the below stated is complete, utter, smelly piece of imho in the lands of countless other ways to see the problem:

 

I came to believe that developer idea of the game is to create situations that you cannot beat using melee and would have to kite and distract zombies at least once in two days even for people believing themselves fortified. They said about becoming more hardcore again several times in different posts here and in blog. I believe they want player to find enough ammo to shoot only every 4-5th zombie a player absolutely has to engage, 2-3th if lucky perk is in place.

If this is true, which is not 100% guaranteed, then there are several options.

for melee - 1) it stays like this but long term fatigue penalties will kick in fast and steep. and to keep the challenge the developers stated they want - they'll either have to script some zombie hordes charging you every once in a while or more likely - tighten supply screws forcing players to scavenge more extensively, resulting in more encounters and fights.

2) it goes some way I dunno - cuz many ppl are thinking on this very balance and might actually think of something good

3) my proposed nerf in link above that would make any fight with more than one zombie a challenge, requiring some tactics, thus preventing the need for hordes or any other forced quantity of encounters. The minor feel of what I'm offering can be seen in crappy platformer deadlight - where 1 Z is a target, 2 Z are a problem, 3 Zs are your running trainers, or even shadow of mordor where orcs can be either crit or at least need a dozen of hits from when you can't pull off a finisher without being disturbed.

for firearms - they must do something that melee doesn't and yet not have enough ammo to kill everything unless in a very mildly set up sandbox and lucky char.

1) if they just use fatigue to limit melee then firearms will be natural backup for when you no longer feel sexy enough to swing

2) If something unexpected gets invented then all of written here is crap cuz off the target

3) If we take my proposed melee nerf then firearms are golden as they are - anytime you are facing 3+ zombies, using a few bullets/bolts will be more than tempting. What if shots attract other zombies? Player will hope they'll be coming from different sides and there will be room for maneuver and singling them out. What if not? More bullets or swift feet. Also more room for cooperation since more players will cancel out more zombies in separate mini duels.

 

Now - I just did explain my vision and how to possibly implement it. If you explained yours, I'd know how to comment your thoughts. For example maybe you'd like to be able to postal and just keep shooting zombies all over the place like melons with hollow points - then I'd say it's a feasible mod idea or a sandbox setting of some sort. But likely you want some survival, yet with many guns and bullets - can you be more specific on the balance that you consider proper?

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Guns are supposed to attract zombies. You aren't supposed to be a master marksman or even a decent marksman just from the simple fact you pick up a gun and guns simply can't cause tiredness, they just can't. The fact is the myth that guns are "easy to use" as a lot of people like to claim is nonsense. It takes skill and long practice to properly learn how to use a gun. Especially in a panic situation. It's not like a bat where you can just swing and get the job done with very little to no skill what so ever. In a panic situation with a fire arm most people if not all people would be terribly off base. Even the best trained soldiers have made mistakes in panic scenarios and it doesn't matter how many times you practice, sometimes your basic instincts will take over and mistakes will be made.

 

Can't wipe out hordes with shotguns or handguns. Couldn't in real life and there's no reason you should be able to in PZ. Especially since the goal of the game is to fluidly and realistically increase difficulty. 

 

In my opinion fire arms exist for two reasons and two reasons only.

 

Reason 1: Emergencies. Such as an NPC with a fire arm or a horde you can't fight off and have to lure away.

 

Reason 2: Hunting.

I'll agree to disagree with some of your points. I just feel like they lack purpose, or are not as applicable. It's common sense that shooting can be difficult, but at a close distance with a human-sized target? Unless you're convulsing like mad, it's just pointing and pulling the trigger. Add some distance, and it becomes a lot more difficult. That's where skill comes in; anyone can pick up a gun and shoot something big in front of them.. but can they do that again, when they're forty yards away?

The thing about zombies, is that once they've bunched up in front of you, and all you have is a gun, you had better leg it. No matter how many times you pull the trigger, someone inexperienced and nerved up like insane is not going to headshot them all. I'm not disputing that, but to say that shooting is super hard unconditionally is bogus. I've fired weapons before. I'm not great, but I'm confident I can hit something without standing still and taking forever to aim at anything within ten feet of me.

The thing about zombie apocalypses though, is that standing in front of them and shooting them is a bad idea. You want to have some distance, and that's what separates common people from marksmen, in my opinion. I also like to think that someone who's in their mid twenties would have fired a gun before in their life, at some point.. or at least be given the option of a trait that helps it slightly.

 

 

The human body may be large but you seem to forget that zombies can only be killed with a shot to the head. Therefore their size is irrelevant. Unless their head is as large as their abdomen then it does you little good how large their abdomen is. xD

 

I didn't forget. If you shoot at a zombie, you should either A, hit them in the head, B, hit them in the torso, and finally C, miss.

A should depend on skill and angle/circumstances. B could depend on circumstance as well, but be what happens when you should hit them, yet cannot get a headshot due to lack of practice or skill.. well, maybe. It's better than missing in my opinion, and is applicable to humans and animals nicely. C could be less likely than it is now, but not unheard of. It should depend on distance and skill.

If your target's close, I don't want that to be an automatic headshot. I want it to be a successful hit to the body, instead of just outright missing, which is kind of silly in hindsight.

You're rewarded for practicing this skill on enemies, with more critical hits and not missing at greater distances as your pay-off at higher levels. But at low levels, your attacks won't hit at great distances! When they're close however, you will hit your target, provided the angles are right. It just won't be a critical hit everytime. So you would have to use more ammunition to get a kill, whereas a skilled gunman will make short work of that zed.

This system would make novices struggle to get kills, however still get use out of the weapon, and eventually get good. I absolutely think that a skilled gunman could handle some zombies with a gun, but it should take effort to get that, to make use of this ranged weapon. Right now, a novice will struggle to hit a zombie, let alone kill them. Imagine using this system to shoot at humans, you'll just miss most of the time when they're in front of you, at the beginning.. whereas in real life, shooting someone point blank is fatal, regardless where you hit them.

Makes guns more threatening to other people, like they are in real life. Whereas against zombies, at low levels, it's not too good, compared to melee, but you're rewarded for it later on. But this could all depend on the firearm in question. For instance, an assault rifle? A novice might struggle to hit as much if they just hold the trigger, or even do bursts.

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Snip

 

You should really snip replies. :P But yeah, I see what you're saying and I can agree with that. But I thought the discussion was primarily related to being able to kill zombies easier rather than the hit/miss ratio alone. Sorry if I misunderstood. But *if* they added this then they should add a random chance for said zombie to lose a body part which would I suppose add more use to guns (even though ti wouldn't kill the zombie) it would at least look cool. That wouldn't outweigh the threat of using a weapon either but it would make me use them more if I could coincidentally blow off their arm in the process of unloading on them. xD

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First, guns are hard in real life. They aren't magical kill wands, certainly not in the hands of a random Joe/sepha. Typically, cops will shoot 4 or 5 times per actual hit, and hits are hardly always center of mass, and only rarely hit the CNS/head.

 

And zombies can only be stopped by a CNS/head shot, we assume. So it's not unreasonable to hit them 5 or 10 times even with practically 0 effect.

 

 

Guns should be high-maintenance, high-payoff. Currently they're no maintenance, lowish-payoff. The only things required for guns currently are a gun and the accompanying ammo.

 

Some ideas are gun cleaning kits, reloading ammo (refer to the PZ mod by the name), more useful attachments.
Such as described in the following post: http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/11862-durability-realismrepair/

They should require cleaning at the very least.
Overheating (for automatics) would be a plus
Replacement parts would be a plus

Additional attachments would be a plus

Pistols should be more accurate or an aiming system should be implemented (such as ctrl, like mentioned previously in the thread)
(if not implemented already) shotguns should make use of "pellets" and "slugs", where pellets would be good for spreading damage amongst zombies (or lethal at very close range), or slugs being lethal at close to medium ranges.

 

 

Most guns don't really require excessive maintenance, and generally it's just to keep them from jamming more often, which itself isn't all that big of a deal usually (FTEs and FTFs, the most common, aren't that hard to clear). Replacing parts is rarely needed, certainly not within the time scale of this game. Realistically, maintenance would not be necessary in this game either, given most guns will have like 50 rounds put through them before you died or ran out of ammo. A lot of pistols, for instance, can go 500+ rounds between scheduled cleaning without any real issues nor jamming becoming an issue.

 

I doubt anyone's going to put enough rounds through a gun fast enough here to cause overheating either, or at least such things will be rare enough to not warrant addition. There's mods for that anyway.
 

Pistols aren't accurate, certainly not in the hands of anyone but a highly experienced and trained user.

 

Just trying to hit a stationary head-sized target with a pistol at a measly 10m distance while totally calm, composed, still, rested, and with 0 adrenaline or panic is not easy for most new shooters (doable with a little practice, but it takes a lot of focus and effort still). Pushing it out to 25m is much harder. Add in all those other factors, and hitting a 3ft-radius circle would be hard. Heck even most experienced shooters will struggle with a headshot at 15m with complicating factors or a moving target. Might take more than 10 shots to hit once.

 

Addons like optics or a hand grip don't make up for a huge difference in the end except for competitive shooters or distance shooting (which isn't done in this game since everything is basically within 25m). It helps, but like 5% better for <25m stuff. If you can't hit at 15m, an ACOG or handgrip isn't going to improve your aim much.

 

What I'm saying, I guess, is a brutally hard-to-hit gun system that doesn't have maintenance/etc is actually very realistic. They shouldn't be worth much, and a simple kitchen knife at close quarters is likely far deadlier in most people's hands.

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What I'm saying, I guess, is a brutally hard-to-hit gun system that doesn't have maintenance/etc is actually very realistic. They shouldn't be worth much, and a simple kitchen knife at close quarters is likely far deadlier in most people's hands.

 

I think this might be somewhat of an exaggeration. But in any case, very realistic often doesn't translate to very good gameplay, and for a resource like guns that require limited/difficult-to-find ammunition, you expect more in a game like this than PZ actually delivers.

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It's not really an exaggeration. Someone who knows what they're doing with a knife is going to be far deadlier under 5ft than someone who knows how to shoot a pistol. I could post plenty of links, but they'd probably violate some forum rule for graphic content.

 

Now, PvP, guns should be more effective, since just getting shot in the arm (or just shot AT) will deter a lot of people (who aren't undead), plus bleeding is an issue with the living, unlike the undead.

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First, guns are hard in real life. They aren't magical kill wands, certainly not in the hands of a random Joe/sepha. -snip-.

Depends on the guns.

Rifles are a heck of a lot easier to aim and have potential for serious damage.

Pistols should be meant for close quarters within this game in any case, i.e. indoors.

And zombies can only be stopped by a CNS/head shot, we assume. So it's not unreasonable to hit them 5 or 10 times even with practically 0 effect.

Yes, but they can also be shot in the legs (knee caps?) and become less effective. If bullets weren't only used for headshots, but for disabling zombies, it would make firearms more efficient at handling zombies (shoot at a horde, hit a couple in the legs with a high powered round, they become crawling zombies, or are slower)

 

Most guns don't really require excessive maintenance, and generally it's just to keep them from jamming more often, -snip-

Well, there's more than just keeping them from jamming more often. Maintaining guns (adjusting sights, lubricating, etc) would give better accuracy, slightly quicker reload times, etc.

It would provide more to firearms than just finding the ammo...

Replacing parts is rarely needed, certainly not within the time scale of this game.

One could assume after being unused, rotting away in a cabinet in the heat, firearms, weapons, and items would be subject to decay.

 

I doubt anyone's going to put enough rounds through a gun fast enough here to cause overheating either -snip-

Depends on the gun, depends on maintenance as well. Surely a bolt-action rifle or a shotgun will not overheat in this game, nor will most pistols, however if automatic rifles are implemented into the game, it would be a nice mechanic to have to limit players from spamming shots.

Pistols aren't accurate, certainly not in the hands of anyone but a highly experienced and trained user. Just trying to hit a stationary head-sized target with a pistol at a measly 10m distance while totally calm, composed, still, rested, and with 0 adrenaline or panic is not easy for most new shooters (doable with a little practice, but it takes a lot of focus and effort still).-snip-

If you're aiming for the head, undoubtedly it'll be hard. Again, disabling zombies...

 

Addons like optics or a hand grip don't make up for a huge difference in the end except for competitive shooters or distance shooting

Addons were brought up for more variation to firearms, not necessarily for usefulness.

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Yes, but they can also be shot in the legs (knee caps?) and become less effective. If bullets weren't only used for headshots, but for disabling zombies, it would make firearms more efficient at handling zombies (shoot at a horde, hit a couple in the legs with a high powered round, they become crawling zombies, or are slower)

 

I severely doubt anyone who can't make a headshot reliably is going to be able to hit the knee squarely enough to disable the joint entirely. Yeah, it can happen, but it doesn't really improve the weapon's effectiveness, especially since the knees are so far from the head they wouldn't even be accidentally hit by someone aiming for the head. You see how the zombies shamble already? Seems like damaging the knee joint isn't really going to make a huge difference anyway.

 

 

Well, there's more than just keeping them from jamming more often. Maintaining guns (adjusting sights, lubricating, etc) would give better accuracy, slightly quicker reload times, etc.

It would provide more to firearms than just finding the ammo...

 

Yeah, you said it, it's "slightly", like <5% effects, nothing really gameplay shattering. There's no real reason for the devs to worry about it all that much. The biggest issue is jamming, which isn't modeled last I checked, so whatever.

 

One could assume after being unused, rotting away in a cabinet in the heat, firearms, weapons, and items would be subject to decay.

 

The game starts right after the zombies start, meaning we'd assume the guns had been otherwise maintained right up until the time the player starts the scenario. How much decay happens to your guns in the space of a few weeks exactly?

 

This stuff makes sense only if the game's going to be years long, but the devs have made it clear that it's a few weeks, maybe 2-3 months before you're supposed to die, if you don't on day 1.

 

Again, if some modders want to reconfigure everything so that months-years-long games are possible, they can add in all these long-term bells and whistles. Why not have desiccant bags and gun safes and moisture modeling, and whatever then. It's a whole lot of unnecessity for a short-term game like the devs are aiming for, though.

 

Depends on the gun, depends on maintenance as well. Surely a bolt-action rifle or a shotgun will not overheat in this game, nor will most pistols, however if automatic rifles are implemented into the game, it would be a nice mechanic to have to limit players from spamming shots.

 

Right, and how often are players going to spray two magazines on full auto exactly with one of the rare ARs with their rare ammo? Even then, the actual effect is basically just "ow" if you touch the barrel, slight accuracy drop, it's all really minor unless you dump hundreds of rounds without any breaks, which can damage/corrode the barrel at most.

 

We're really getting into the weeds here, especially since full auto guns are mostly illegal in the US.

 

Addons were brought up for more variation to firearms, not necessarily for usefulness.

 

That's fine. I'm just mentioning it since other people here seem to think they should greatly increase effectiveness, which they don't really at <25m.

 

Sure, if you throw a whole lot of new parts on a gun, you might get up to a 20% increase in performance at best (my best stab at quantifying a mostly subjective thing), which I suppose is significant enough. But it's not going to suddenly alter the shooting game from "really hard" to "smooth and easy", now is it?

 

The most important things are the actual gun itself and the ammo. I said back when they were considering addons to do ammo and magazine management, because those are really the two biggest distinguishing "alterations" for a given gun. Won't matter much for zombie head popping, that's all aim and basically .22LR is best for that probably, but for PvP at least...

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I severely doubt anyone who can't make a headshot reliably is going to be able to hit the knee squarely enough to disable the joint entirely. -snip-

I was leaning towards more of a "chance" shot, since PZ doesn't have much aiming other than XY (for the most part)

For higher calibre bullets, it would damage a limb (which could be used for players rather than zombies)

Yeah, you said it, it's "slightly", like <5% effects, nothing really gameplay shattering. There's no real reason for the devs to worry about it all that much. The biggest issue is jamming, which isn't modeled last I checked, so whatever.

Ah, I see your point, and agree. Going forward in your post, it does seem to be a modding ideal, and not the actual vanilla PZ aim.

 

The game starts right after the zombies start, meaning we'd assume the guns had been otherwise maintained right up until the time the player starts the scenario. How much decay happens to your guns in the space of a few weeks exactly?

 

This stuff makes sense only if the game's going to be years long, but the devs have made it clear that it's a few weeks, maybe 2-3 months before you're supposed to die, if you don't on day 1.

Of course, but in Sandbox you can "advance" the game, i.e. 8 months after the apocalypse.

In any case, it does seem like modding would be a better solution than having this in the official game.

 

Right, and how often are players going to spray two magazines on full auto exactly with one of the rare ARs with their rare ammo? Even then, the actual effect is basically just "ow" if you touch the barrel, slight accuracy drop, it's all really minor unless you dump hundreds of rounds without any breaks, which can damage/corrode the barrel at most.

I see your point and agree with it.

My view was more or less on when a rifle gets heated, it may prime and fire bullets after the trigger is released.

  

Sure, if you throw a whole lot of new parts on a gun, you might get up to a 20% increase in performance at best (my best stab at quantifying a mostly subjective thing), which I suppose is significant enough. But it's not going to suddenly alter the shooting game from "really hard" to "smooth and easy", now is it?

Bayonets!

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Yeah, I'm fine with having infinite addons down the road, added by modders, but I still worry that they're going to end up being stuff like:

 

Aimpoint sight +50% accuracy

Handgrip -50% recoil

Light pull trigger +25% accuracy +25% rate of fire

 

So you can up your stats ridiculously with a few gunstore lootings. All in the name of "realism", of course...

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Yeah, I'm fine with having infinite addons down the road, added by modders, but I still worry that they're going to end up being stuff like:

 

Aimpoint sight +50% accuracy

Handgrip -50% recoil

Light pull trigger +25% accuracy +25% rate of fire

 

So you can up your stats ridiculously with a few gunstore lootings. All in the name of "realism", of course...

Just wait for the pay-to-play servers to start coming out.

;)

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Yeah, I'm fine with having infinite addons down the road, added by modders, but I still worry that they're going to end up being stuff like:

 

Aimpoint sight +50% accuracy

Handgrip -50% recoil

Light pull trigger +25% accuracy +25% rate of fire

 

So you can up your stats ridiculously with a few gunstore lootings. All in the name of "realism", of course...

Just wait for the pay-to-play servers to start coming out.

;)

 

That will get really annoying really fast.

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