Gaffa Tape Warrior

Not necessarily. If you're swarmed from all sides and the zeds are dragging you to the ground, you're dead no two ways about it. If you're running through a warehouse to escape a group of zombies, head out through the door and walk straight into a horde there won't be any way for you to get out of that regardless of what you're wearing.
 
If I walk into a house and my leg gets bitten by a crawler, the sheet metal shin guards would prevent me from getting a huge chunk taken out of my legs. If I walk around a corner and am immediately grabbed by a zed I didn't see, having sheet metal arm guards would greatly prevent my being bitten on the arms while I'm struggling to fight it off and run. When ambushed by small numbers it might give you the short few seconds necessary to break grip and run before they rest of the zeds converge on you and seal your fate. 
 
Saying that armor is useless in all scenarios where it would be needed is incorrect.

I hate to say this but it looks like all the argument's on shields is more of a personal opinion and fight style/taste with one side weighing the pro's heavier with the other side weighing the con side heavier both sides have all their points correct and it just boils down to the individual's abilities to see what way it goes

Ah yes the Spear, Spear like weapons are the Melee weapon I think needs to be added the most, Light weight, Long Reach, can be thrown, easy to make, I mean you can sharpen a stick and put the pointy end in a fire and bam, you have a spear, even better break the handle off a knife and wedge the blade into a stick with 2 Ton Apox then wrap it with leather cord thats been dipped in Apox, add two Rivits, nails, screw to finish it off and you have a pretty easy to construct and easy to wield yet very effective weapon, and since trees are every where as long as you have a saw you should be able to keep your self armed pretty easy when they break, 

If I may, you guys say who would be able to smith nails and such, but who the freak would be able to build walls and doors, floors and crates etc. just assume your guy is bob the builder lol

1v1 or even 2v1 a zombie is no issue with a shield as you will see in this video
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oHg5SJYRHA0
 
 
 
 

I'm going to address a few of the issues people have brought up, bear with me for a little.
 
First things first, about the "blacksmithing isn't a trial and error process", with the addition of NPCs (In a future update) perhaps one of them could be a smith and train you. If not, books. Furthermore, everything can be a trial and error process, it just matters how much time you want to sink into it. I've seen a smith work before, sure alot of things are complicated, but nails? It takes about one minute to make a nail, and its one of the easiest things to smith. Also, this would address one of the issues i had before. There is a limited supply of nails on the map, albeit there's alot of nails. I tend to like to do a lot of construction, making a LOT of safe houses around the town, and i ran out of nails. And for if/when they add multiplayer, all of the houses etc. will get looted rather quickly, so you need to have some way to create everything you need (Farming for food, construction for shelter), and on that note, what happens when all the weapons are being used or broken? How do you get (or make) more *wink* *wink*. Lastly, you could have a blacksmith profession, which the benefits of would be obvious.
 
Next, Muldraugh is not going to be the only town, and even if it was you CAN make your own blacksmith's tools. A lot of things don't even take an anvil, and for many of the things that do you can just use a hard, flat surface. Perhaps a granite counter? Obviously it would break eventually but not before you got a few tools out of it.
 
Now to address the shields. First of all, zombies wouldn't pull on your shield, they aren't intelligent enough. Zombies just keep walking towards you and put all their weight on you, in which case the shield would be extremely useful for bashing them back. Also it could block a zombies attack as long as hes not right on top of you. Maybe you would even be able to put it on your back and it has a chance to block attacks from behind?
 
Not sure if i missed anything, if there's an unresolved issue i didn't touch on feel free to reply, not sure if ill be looking back at this for a while though so sorry if i don't reply.
 
In addressing the issue of it being loud, that's fair game. Its the same as with carpentry (which is also very loud). Sure its essential to survival, but there needs to be risks as well as rewards.

Here's a video on how to make a knife using basic tools. No anvil needed.
 

 
Instead of using the power saws we'll use the welding torch.
 
As for steel materials for making swords we can get them from gardening sheers, which are already short swords, and lawnmower blades.

This is naive to the point of silliness. In real life, things are not balanced. Things are not fair. All things are not created equal. This is like saying a Ford Focus and a Bugatti Veyron are both equally fast cars- because, they're both cars, you know?
 
I never said any one blade was perfect- in fact I made it quite clear they aren't- but your notion of all swords being created equal (and especially being equal against zombies) just shows that you don't know a damn lick what you're talking about =\
 
Rapiers are meant to stab at range that's the entire point of the weapon. Suggesting that missing with a rapier would lead to getting grabbed and bitten is almost infantile in its understanding of the weapon. A stop thrust with a rapier can land a hit (or miss) and keep you almost 6 feet from your target, and missing with a light blade when wielding correctly involves no offbalancing or overswing, especially with a stabbing blade.
 
Piercing a skull with a slicing blade isn't as easy as you think. Not that it doesn't happen, but it's a tough shot, and much more risky than stabbing with a rapier or similar.
 
I'm sorry if this comes off as insulting, but it really bugs me to see people who don't have a damn clue about weapons talking about them because they've played video games with swords or looked at stuff on the internet.
 
@American Steel if you're stabbing a zombie in the ribcage, you deserve to die anyways. Obviously not what I'm referring to, and bayonets tend to get stuck in the chestplate or twisted between ribs, both of which would be unlikely to happen against the skull.

Not true.  They actually train soliders using the bayonet to be prepaired with the bayonet blade to be lodged in the opponents rib cage.  The solution is to discharge the weapon, thereby releasing the blade.
 
I asked my Drill Sgt if I had ammo, why was I using a bayonet.  I think I did push ups for an hour.

Okay so I was a zombie game the other day, and I noticed how all bladed weapons break straight away, I felt it was Unrealistic, and I thought I'd suggest something here, since I think these would be good features in Zomboid, and something original.
Right lets use the Katana as a example, There will be two types, however the Player will not know which type they will have.
You will have a Cheap made katana, the sword will last as long as a kitchen knife, and can cause the user to bleed on breaking.
Forged Katana will Break if not looked after correctly, and will go for several phases.
Of course this Won't be for a katana, but any type of sword found in the game, the Fake Katana being the most common, while I European Long sword will exhaust the player quickly, even as a Cheap made, will still cause a lot of knock back due it's weight.
Also some of the swords found in homes may come with a scabbard, which will make the Rust status less likely when exposed to weather.
The swords will Go through several Phases, each of which will randomly occur during combat.

Bent: The blade is harder to use, and takes more strikes to kill the Zombie, can be fixed with a hammer, if the Player decides to unbend it without a hammer there is a chance of the Players foot slipping, and Bleeding., also the sword unless heated will bend over and over again after hammering, too many hammering without heating will ruin the blade Dull: The blade takes more strikes to kill the zombie, a Bend or a break is very likely, sharpening can be done if the player has a sharpener or stone, the stone being the most unlikely to find. Rusty: If the player leaves the sword out and exposes it to the elements, or doesn't use a cloth or a bandage to wipe the excess blood off, the sword will rust, starting from 1% at about 65% it will be impossible to get the rust back to 0% and will have to be in check, at 45% the chances of the sword breaking increase. Messy: The sword has been used in combat a lot, and has been coated with dirt and blood, the player will have to use a bandage or a cloth to remove all unwanted substances. Loose Wrap (Mainly for Katanas) The wrap of the sword has become loose, it takes longer to kill zombies, re wrapping takes 1 hour game time. Chipped: If Blocking during NPC combat is input, weapons can chip from blocking, making it less effective, in this state the player will have to sharpen the sword again, this state can also occur randomly during combat. Broke: what's left of the sword can be used 4-6 more times as a knife/dagger. fatigued: the metal needs oiling. The sword becomes unstable. Of course swords should not be oe shot one kill, the player will be forced to use the sword, and over time the players usage will improve the chance of a instant kill, during the first 25 swings on a zombie the chances of a blade Bending should be at it is highest.I thought I would share this since I have only seen one game use such a system with blades, I know it's a lot to programme for the Devs, but it adds realism, where the chances of finding fake swords can really put the player at risk without them knowing it, some of the statuses such as Chipped could transfer to other weapons such as the Axe and kitchen knife, finding cheap made swords will be more likely in the built up areas, where as Functional Blades can be found anywhere, such as the Gun-store.
Anyone like the idea?

Hi.  I recently bought this game on Steam, and have been reading this forums.
 
This is my first post, and I do not mean to sound rude, but it seems to me that very few of the people posting in this thread have any first-hand, practical experience with certain forms of body armor.
 
I was involved in putting on trashcans and hitting other people in trashcans with sticks reenactment swordfighting/European Martial Arts for several years when I was younger, and have quite a bit of practical experience with various non-firearm weapons and forms of armor.
 
There are a couple of problems I see people in this thread having:
 
1) Not understanding material strength
2) Not understanding the purpose of armor
3) Not understanding how (un)encumbering certain forms of armor can be
 
There is a common series of misconceptions I often see in people whose primary acquaintance with things like mail, plate, coat of plates, etc is from video games (which are based on Dungeons and Dragons), or from pen and paper games like Dungeons and Dragons.  In video games and PnP roleplaying games where you abstract the concept of 'health' into a numerical value you seldom come to understand the purpose of armor.
 
In this game, the Zombie disease is spread via biting and saliva, much like Rabies is.  The best way to not get Rabies is to not get bitten.  A rabid dog can drool on your arm all it wants, and as long as there is no cut or other open wound to provide an easy path for the virus into your body and to the nervous tissues you're not going to be infected (although I would still very much advise you to seek post-exposure treatment).
 
The purpose of armor such as chainmail, is very similar.  You primarily wanted to stop your opponent from putting the sharp pointy bits of their sword (or similar parts of whatever other bladed weapon they were using) into your soft, squishy bits before you could do the same to them.  However, you also wanted to avoid breaking the skin.
 
Mail, like most other non-rigid armors, does next to nothing to stop you from being bludgeoned to death.  That's what plate was for.  When fighting someone in chain, who is nominally protected from sword attacks, a weapon like an axe or warhammer was preferable, as even if you couldn't cut them, you could still break their bones and rupture their internal organs. (And chain can and does fail, depending on the kind of metal it is made from, whether it is butted or riveted, the kind of weave used, the kind of metal from which the weapon hitting it is made, and a great deal of other factors).
 
One of the common misconceptions about armors are their weight.  People look at the mass of a suit of plate, which can be around a hundred pounds, and fail to understand that there is a difference between 100 pounds of metal in a backpack on your back and 100 pounds of metal and leather attached to individual parts of your body.  Often the mass of armors is exaggerated.  Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 would have you believe a chain shirt weighs 25 pounds.  They don't.  10-15 would be more accurate.
 
If you are an adult who is not completely out of shape to the point where you can't walk around all day, you should be completely capable of wearing a chain shirt without it exhausting you.  A hauberk weighs more, and is more encumbering, and a coif (a kind of chain helmet) is also more encumbering.  Still, it's entirely possible to engage in very vigorous activity for prolonged periods in armor and not succumb to heat stroke.  Battles could last for hours, and you didn't exactly have breaks to drink Gatorade and rest during them.
 
Plate is quite hot, but people did, again, fight in it for extended periods of time.  You do move slower in Plate than out of it, and you will grow tired faster wearing Plate, but you are completely capable of running, jumping, and doing cartwheels in a suit of plate.  Not even a good suit, mind you.
 
Plate has an advantage over chain in that it is more evenly distributed about the body, whereas a hauberk mostly hangs from the shoulders.  However, in a Zombie Apocalypse like the one presented in this game, you would not want a suit of plate.
 
In this game, as aforementioned, the infection is spread by bite and saliva.  The best way to not get infected is to not get bitten.  The best way to not get bitten is to stay the hell away from the zombies.  If you do have to get near them, you will want some sort of light weight armor to protect you from being bitten.  There are a number of choices that many people already own, or are easily created.
 
Leather Jacket:  A leather jacket is going to protect you from being bitten.  Anyone who thinks a leather jacket is not a good and sufficient protection against bites from humans, I invite to go try to gnaw through a leather jacket themselves.  You're not going to do it.  Zombies would have to tear the jacket off of you, because they are never going to bite through it.  A leather jacket such as many people already own would be more than sufficient torso and arm protection in a zombie apocalypse.  During the summer or in warmer climes they are indeed hot, but I have never seen anyone keel over from heat stroke from wearing a leather jacket in the summer.  They just get rather sweaty.  We can extend this to articles of clothing such as leather pants (when made from real leather), although denim is just as good. Denim Jeans:  Denim jeans will protect you from being bitten.  I've had a dog latch on to my shin and try to drag me out of a car before, and the dog did not manage to tear through my jeans before I slammed the car door on its head until he let go and ran off.  To anyone who thinks that denim jeans are not sufficient bite protection, I invite them to go try to gnaw through a pair of jeans. As to them being hot, I'm wearing them right now and am cold. Work and Garden Gloves:  These are going to protect your hands from bites, specifically the leather kind.  I don't vouch for other kinds of materials.  Once again, anyone who thinks a human being can bite through a pair of leather work gloves, I invite to go try to do it and post video of the results. Motorcycle Safety Gear:  This is a broad category, but it includes all sorts of jackets, chaps, gloves, helmets, and other miscellaneous gear that people on motorcycles wear to to protect them from injury in case of an accident.  There are many materials that are used for this purpose, such as leather.  If leather is sufficient to protect one from having one's skin ground into hamburger when falling off a motorcycle at speed, it's going to protect you from being bitten. Occupational Safety Gear:  Mail aprons and gloves are used by butchers and others in the food industry who need to cut things or use other sharp equipment.  You can easily search for Meatcutter's Gloves on the internet.  Such gloves are mail, and weigh between and eight and a sixteenth of a pound, and provide resistance (but not immunity), to cutting yourself with a knife.  Knives are much harder and sharper than human teeth.  mail , being full of holes, is very breathable.  There is other gear that could be used, such a clothing for protection against heat and sparks from welding, but that is heavier and hotter. I should like to point out that in the case of mail, you don't actually need chain of the quality that one would need to protect one against blows from real weapons.  The links need not be that numerous and small, as you don't have to worry about people stabbing you (although fingers getting in between them and tearing them apart is an issue).  The entire purpose for armor in a zombie apocalypse (that is meant to protect you from zombies, in an apocalypse such as the one in the game) is to stop the zombies from being able to break your skin via a bite, as the disease is transmitted via saliva.  If they can't bite you to create an open wound, your chances of infection drastically drop.
 
Mail is not hard to make.  It is time-consuming to make.  Very time-consuming.  It could easily take two weeks working eight hours a day to make a hauberk depending on the materials used and the pattern being used.  However, you do not need, as I have mentioned, to make such mail.  You don't need this mail to stop sword and axe and (maybe) arrow.  You just need it to stop a human being from biting you.  A human can exert about 120 PSI of pressure when biting.  An average dog can do around two and a half times that.  Denim and leather are capable of protecting against dog bites.  They would be more than sufficient to protect against human bites.  And humans cannot bite through iron wire, no matter how hard they try.
 
That said, all the above listed "soft" armors are going to do is protect you from being bitten and scratched, which is your primary concern as it is the pathway for the disease to enter your system.  Said bites and scratches would also allow pathways for OTHER disease to enter your system, and with no doctors around to give you a tetanus booster, you're going to want to keep your epidermis as intact as possible.  These armors do not, however, protect you from the pressure of the bites, or from the force of a blow.  Just because the zombies cannot bite you does not mean they cannot crush you, break your bones, and hold you down until you bleed to death internally.
 
I understand that having actual realistic renditions of armor in this game would not be fun for a great many people.  However, if realism is actually what you want, then that's what you're going to have to deal with.
 

Making the same point over and over again doesn't mean that it isn't a viable idea.
 
A leather jacket is hot in the summer, and would definitely guard against a few bites. The fact that an item has drawbacks doesn't mean it shouldn't be introduced to the game. If you think about a regular US military battle outfit it has to be hot like hell but it doesn't stop them from roaming around in deserts. They're not in their t-shirts actually.
 
The point in armor against zombies is that it would defend against 1-3 zombies and a few bites from them. You're not gonna get away with walking through a horde even if you're wearing a plate mail armor. They'll just push you down and pile up until you're crushed or someone makes a hole which to bite through.
 
There's no use in trying to make up a zombie proof armor as in the long run there isn't any. Will the armors suggested provide some resistance against bites, definitely, but why would you build a chainmail that guards you from 1-3 zombies (and not your head, palms or legs btw) rather than have a thick jacket or two that do the same thing. You're gonna beat the shit out of them before they get enough bites anyway, and if not, you're most likely so badly trapped that the chainmail won't save you. If you have five strong men holding you down, no armor is gonna save you.
 
Now armor against weapons and stabbing items is a whole other thing. There is also, as mentioned, already existing riot gear etc. for that. They don't however protect your hands or legs fully and if the force is strong enough (or close enough, with guns) not necessarily even where they are meant to defend. It also needs to be remembered that no armor fully negates the effects of blunt strikes and that every hit at you (wheter it's stabbing shooting, scratching etc.) will sustain blunt damage. You will be bruised or hurt in some other way if you are hit.
 
TL;DR: Armor has drawbacks and benefits. Wether the benefits are against human attacks or zombie bites/scratche is a wholly different thing. Medieval armor isn't feasible in the game due to it's build time vs benefit.

I wouldn't call it pointless at all. The entire point of the game is to emulate reality as closely as possible and coming up with ways to prevent getting bit is something that any normal person would try to do. If this were a real life zombie apocalypse and you told me I couldn't wrap duct tape around my arm to prevent being bitten by a zombie you'd better have a damn good reason backing you up.

If you havent seen World War Z the idea of using Duct Tape as arm and leg protection could be a good be of great use for those who can only go into hand to hand combat. not only that but if there is enough bites on the armor it could come undone and leave the player vulnerable to bites.
 
I also think this would be a great defensive feature and give more survivability for more hardcore players that need to get out of a bind without any bites
 
for those who do not understand what I am talking about I posted a picture
 
Let me know what you think =)