Makeshift Suppressor

[Mikhail Reign]

I've seen this posted a few time, and the general reaction is that a suppressor is either A: hard to come by; or B: that they are hard to make.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haiqFcIXTqs

 

That is a commercial product that is readily available in the states. As you can see it is simply a threaded attachement for a gun, that would allow you to attach a oil filter as a makeshift suppressor, which, as you can see in the video, is relalitly effective. This product would be quiet simple to recreate with only a few simple tools, namely a threat tapping kit, which can be found in most workshops. I am not suggesting that attaching one of these would make your gun silent, but it would be helpful in muffling the sound to make your position harder to pin point down. This could be displayed ingame by attracting distant Zed to your general (but not exact) location, and closer Zed becoming more active, while still not zeroing in on you straight away.

[Rathlord]

This has been discussed several times, including this exact video with this exact attachment. It still requires a tax stamp to buy this piece; if you don't get one, they won't sell it to you and if they did you'd be risking a felony. It's still not a widespread thing, and not something the average guy can make on his own. If you're interested in more discussion try one of the open threads on the subject. Feel free to search google with this:

 

site:"theindiestone.com" suppressor

 

Should pop up with several threads, or you can search for that YouTube link on our site if you're interested in the thread(s) where it's already been mentioned. Cheers!

[Mikhail Reign]

 

Mikhail Reign

I've seen this posted a few time, and the general reaction is that a suppressor is either A: hard to come by; or B: that they are hard to make.

 

 

That is a commercial product that is readily available in the states. As you can see it is simply a threaded attachement for a gun, that would allow you to attach a oil filter as a makeshift suppressor, which, as you can see in the video, is relalitly effective. This product would be quiet simple to recreate with only a few simple tools, namely a threat tapping kit, which can be found in most workshops. I am not suggesting that attaching one of these would make your gun silent, but it would be helpful in muffling the sound to make your position harder to pin point down. This could be displayed ingame by attracting distant Zed to your general (but not exact) location, and closer Zed becoming more active, while still not zeroing in on you straight away.

Rathlord

This has been discussed several times, including this exact video with this exact attachment. It still requires a tax stamp to buy this piece; if you don't get one, they won't sell it to you and if they did you'd be risking a felony. It's still not a widespread thing, and not something the average guy can make on his own. If you're interested in more discussion try one of the open threads on the subject. Feel free to search google with this:

 

site:"theindiestone.com" suppressor

 

Should pop up with several threads, or you can search for that YouTube link on our site if you're interested in the thread(s) where it's already been mentioned. Cheers!

 

Relevant Link

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=haiqFcIXTqs

 

... I have no idea how you can say that this isn't something that the average person can make. It is, in it most simplistic form, a piece of metal tube with a thread on one end to fit a oil filter, a thread on the other end to fit a thread on a gun.

 

Tapping and die kit

http://eclats.info/modules.php?name=Boutique&itm_ref=26830&gclid=COjBt-ziksACFUpxvAode0oAuQ

 

Along with a piece of metal roughly the right size, this is all you need. I own a set similar to this myself, and they are one of the most common pieces of workshop hardware to come across. To make the thread all you do is spin a bar around the thing you want the thread on.

 

Simple video on threading

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVnN4jiB7Gk

 

A video of someone tapping a thread on to the end of a gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q9vZYl49yw

 

It is not a hard thing to do, it required some easy to find tools, and can be done in about 15 minutes to a hour depending on skill level.

 

I would very much like it if you could point out the step that you think that the average person wouldn't be able to do.

 

While finding the appropriate footage for this, I came across another extremely simple supressor design that also uses not much more then a tap and die kit and a mag light.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqZMzmPBMqc

 

EDIT:

 

While I know this is only an example with a .22, its more of a example to show that the above design works safely.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIIVzsADdvc

[Rausheim]

Silencers in USA are highly restricted (it costs 200 bucks just to apply for purchasing one) and if you find a silencer, the gun needs to be threaded and the threads has to match and the diameter of the bore must also be the same. The barrel also needs to be longer and stick a few inches in front of the barrel.

 

An average person can not do this without maiming the gun or himself. Tapping and threading a gun takes a lot of skill and the only thing that gives a accurate result is a CNC machine. If done wrong, the bores might not be aligned = kaboom, and not in a good way.

 

Besides, the only function a silencer has (without subsonic ammo) is to lower the db of the sound from "dangerous to the hearing" to "below dangerous to the hearing". Also, the only handgun calibers that can be somewhat silenced are 22's and 45's.

 

Of all the guns I own, the only one that makes the less sound is a 22 pistol with a silencer (sounds like a airgun, which is actually hearable from a distance). Everything else, including a 9mm handgun with silencer, makes quite the loud sound.

[Mikhail Reign]

Silencers in USA are highly restricted (it costs 200 bucks just to apply for purchasing one) and if you find a silencer, the gun needs to be threaded and the threads has to match and the diameter of the bore must also be the same. The barrel also needs to be longer and stick a few inches in front of the barrel.

 

An average person can not do this without maiming the gun or himself. Tapping and threading a gun takes a lot of skill and the only thing that gives a accurate result is a CNC machine. If done wrong, the bores might not be aligned = kaboom, and not in a good way.

 

Besides, the only function a silencer has (without subsonic ammo) is to lower the db of the sound from "dangerous to the hearing" to "below dangerous to the hearing". Also, the only handgun calibers that can be somewhat silenced are 22's and 45's.

 

Of all the guns I own, the only one that makes the less sound is a 22 pistol with a silencer (sounds like a airgun, which is actually hearable from a distance). Everything else, including a 9mm handgun with silencer, makes quite the loud sound.

 

I wasnt suggesting buying one, but making one. Did you you read my post, which largely dealt with the process of threading? Or watch the video that I linked of someone tapping the end of a gun barrel with a simple tapping and die kit? Or noticed that I only used the term suppressor and not silencer? Did you read my post at all?

[EnigmaGrey]

An interesting Finnish study geared towards saving military personnel their hearing, if anyone is interested: http://guns.connect.fi/rs/measure.html

You'll note that even in this study, it only lessens the sound by 10 - 30 dB near the shooter, but that's not all there is to it.

And please, don't trust youtube videos unless someone actually goes to the effort of buying a meter.
 

[Rausheim]

It was mainly for finding them around in the game world, as there are very few of em around in the states.

 

I know how to thread a barrel, I work with guns on a daily basis That's also why I know that the average Joe will not be able to do it properly. It will be misaligned and if not exploding, you can forget anything that has to do with accuracy over 5 meters.

 

And making a silencer/suppressor (Potato's and tomato's) is another thing average Joe will not be able to do. Making this part is easy, for one who knows how guns and gases and such work.

It was mainly for finding them around in the game world, as there are very few of em around in the states.

 

I know how to thread a barrel, I work with guns on a daily basis That's also why I know that the average Joe will not be able to do it properly. It will be misaligned and if not exploding, you can forget anything that has to do with accuracy over 5 meters.

 

And making a silencer/suppressor (Potato's and tomato's) is another thing average Joe will not be able to do. Making this part is easy, for one who knows how guns and gases and such work.

 

Heck, I might even make a video shooting a gun without silencer then with one and the PZ team can use it as an example why silencers are not a good idea and wont work as intended.

[Mikhail Reign]

And please, don't trust youtube videos unless someone actually goes to the effort of buying a meter.

 

Well in none of my videos did I address the issue of sound level. The thesis of my entire argument is simply that is is possible to create a home made suppressor with things that you would be able to find in a tool shed.

 

In fact

 

 

This could be displayed ingame by attracting distant Zed to your general (but not exact) location, and closer Zed becoming more active, while still not zeroing in on you straight away.

 

I suggest that the sounds range would be pretty much similar. It would be mostly about how the Zeds react, not IF they react.

 

It will be misaligned and if not exploding, you can forget anything that has to do with accuracy over 5 meters.Heck, I might even make a video shooting a gun without silencer then with one and the PZ team can use it as an example why silencers are not a good idea and wont work as intended.

 

If it reduces that range of my weapon to 5 meters (about my engagment range anyway) but has ANY, repeat, ANY noticeable positive effect on how I am perceived by Zeds, I would be doing it.

 

Making this part is easy, for one who knows how guns and gases and such work.

 If you know how a muffler works, you know how a suppressor works. Also, they just aren't rocket science. Also, also, books.

 

Finally, using the oil filter version, there really is no aligning. You are shooting a hole through the filter.

[EnigmaGrey]

 

Well in none of my videos did I address the issue of sound level. The thesis of my entire argument is simply that is is possible to create a home made suppressor with things that you would be able to find in a tool shed.

This isn't your thread alone . . .

And I question wanting something in the game when it's not possible to quantify it's effects in any meaningful way.

If a real, professional, suppressor decreases sound between 1/16 and 3/16 (though it's a logarithmic scale, so this is flawed in itself), then your oil can shouldn't have any greater effect.

Another interesting article, though it seems to rely quite a bit on the Finnish article posted earlier: http://www.silencerresearch.com/sound_suppressors_on_high_powered_rifles.htm

[Rausheim]

Using oil filters as suppressors? Forget about aiming.

 

The only way I can think of that a suppressor can have a use for, is to not tell zeds outside a building. If you shoot a suppressed gun inside a building, that sound might not escape the building. But everything inside, will notice. And that is if you hit a soft target like a zed, if you hit a wall or something it will sound like a hammer slamming like hell.

 

The practical use of a silencer in a combat situation, is so that people in another building can't hear a gun being fired.

[Mikhail Reign]

This isn't your thread alone . . .

We'll forgive me to assuming, thatsince any previous posts where from March, that of anyone was going to comment on those post they would have done so already.

Using oil filters as suppressors? Forget about aiming.

So you didn't read my post before replying to it? Because that's pretty much all I was talking about.

The practical use of a silencer in a combat situation, is so that people in another building can't hear a gun being fired.

And that not an useful effect how?

[EnigmaGrey]

Moved everything here and locked the  old topic. Sorry for the confusion, Mikhail.

From this point forward, any topics on suppressors/silencers will be merged with this topic.

[Rausheim]

The only way I can see suppressors in the game is if the gun has a threaded barrel (like if a rifle has a scope, synthetic stock or such) and the suppressor is a part that can't be manufactured, but found in the gunshop etc. Also in 9mm bore, 223 bore and 308 bore to the specific guns.

 

That and combined with the "only people outside a building can't hear it" and "only half of the zombies in the world can hear it outside". Then I'm all for it.

 

And no stupid "pft" sound like in movies. A properly suppressed rifle/handgun will still sound like a 22 rifle.

[Rathlord]

It's still irrelevant completely. No suppressor ever made can make a gun so silent that zombies within the streaming range of the game can't hear it. And the game sounds only pull zombies within streaming range. So, as I've been saying for two and a half years, this would be a massive waste of dev time for the sole purpose of appeasing the people who want this.

[EnigmaGrey]

You know what, if adding a silencer has a realistic decrease in sound as compared to the real world, maybe the work of adding an attachment that simply decreases sound said realistic amount might be a decent concession to reality, even if map streaming causes that effect to be irrelevant.

Though I don't think "custom" silencers, like this oil filter, would be effective enough, over any period of usage, to be worth the effort adding individual sprites for.

[RoboMat]

I'd love to have silencers in the game, even if they don't have a real effect on the gameplay and are there just for fun.

 

this would be a massive waste of dev time for the sole purpose of appeasing [redacted]

 

I don't agree.

You know what, if adding a silencer has a realistic decrease in sound as compared to the real world, maybe the work of adding an attachment that simply decreases sound said realistic amount might be a decent concession to reality, even if map streaming causes that effect to be irrelevant.

 

This sounds like a good compromise.

[Rathlord]

I don't understand; so you're saying add in an item that you can slap on your weapon that adds no gameplay value and has no function other than putting the tag "suppressed" in front of your firearm is a good use of dev time?

Edit: does this mean I get to have my dinosaur wielding laser Gatling guns I've always wanted? It can be just like shooting the pistol, but it'd be fun.

[RoboMat]

I don't understand; so you're saying add in an item that you can slap on your weapon that adds no gameplay value and has no function other than putting the tag "suppressed" in front of your firearm is a good use of dev time?

 

no gameplay value ~= no effect on gameplay

 

Besides, I don't think it is up to us to do decide what the devs spend their time on

[Rathlord]

Doesn't mean that we can't discuss whether it's a good use of time or good idea, though. By that logic lets just disable responses to suggestion threads if we can only say yes to them, eh?

Besides, RJ already said he didn't want to do suppressors, so by your logic we should just go ahead and forget about it.

[Croak90]

I feel like everyone who suggests silencers thinks they work how they do in the Fallout series. They're not silent, generally far from it. Zombies nearby will still hear it, making it effectively useless.

 

Rath, ask the devs to put in a silencer item with a neat little picture and have it attach to guns so that when they fire the firing sound plays at 1/4 volume. Should take 15 minutes after finding an icon.

[RoboMat]

I feel like everyone who suggests silencers thinks they work how they do in the Fallout series. They're not silent, generally far from it. Zombies nearby will still hear it, making it effectively useless.

 

I don't think they would be useless depending how for example the AI director would work. Shooting around with a gun all the time could for example trigger the sadistic director to send bandits your way more often than for example to a character that uses only silenced weapons from time to time.

 

I agree that it shouldn't be an "unrealistic" silencer like in James Bond Golden Eye (N64) where it only made *pew pew*. On the other hand I wouldn't have a problem with that either.

 

Why I also think it would be nice to have the options of silencers and different attachments alltogether is, because they give the player a feeling of "freedom" and it also is quite a nice being able to mod your personal gun.

[Rathlord]

I do like the idea of freedom to mod your weapons and make them feel personal, which is why I recommended as many realistic attachments as possible to RJ when we were working on this.

I just feel like (and after seeing two years of arguments for it still do) that the main reason people want them is that they're a trope of the genre. It "feels like" PZ should have them, because zombie films/games do; but PZ strives to get away from those tropes! Bites are fatal, loot and gameplay is realistic, and in the end you lose.

[Viceroy]

It's still irrelevant completely. No suppressor ever made can make a gun so silent that zombies within the streaming range of the game can't hear it. And the game sounds only pull zombies within streaming range. So, as I've been saying for two and a half years, this would be a massive waste of dev time for the sole purpose of appeasing the people who want this.

 

Doesn't the map stream the cell you are in and each cell surrounding that? Meaning that you are in a cell of 300 tiles with 300 more to each direction from that? With the pistol currently only attracting zombies with a radius of 150 cells that would mean streaming would mean if I stood in the center of a cell it would attract all the zombies inside that cell but not the ones around it? So you could theoretically 'silence' a pistol?

 

Or am I misunderstanding the streaming dynamic?

 

And I must say that I don't think it would be a 'massive waste of dev time'. If it is within realistic constraints it is obvious what effect it would have on gameplay. Reducing the radius of zombie attraction. Even if it only does so minimally.

 

EDIT:

I do like the idea of freedom to mod your weapons and make them feel personal, which is why I recommended as many realistic attachments as possible to RJ when we were working on this.

 

Yet the idea of a flashlight on a gun was abhorrent?

Edited August 14, 2014 by Viceroy

[RoboMat]

I just feel like (and after seeing two years of arguments for it still do) that the main reason people want them is that they're a trope of the genre.

 

... and that makes them automatically a bad thing? o.o

 

Yes, the main reason I want them in the game is because it is fucking cool to have a fully upgraded gun with a silencer on it. IMO it would be a totally hipster thing to leave them out just because they are a trope in other games.

 

Also, I feel like leaving them out would be even more unrealistic than having pew pew silencers in the game.

[Rathlord]

Leaving them out wouldn't be unrealistic as I've pouted out many times before. I have both experience as someone qualified to comment on it (having lived near there in a town that size full of hunters and gun enthusiasts, none of which owned a suppressor) and having provided evidence to government documents backing up my claims with hard evidence.

My reason for not wanting them isn't because it's a trope; it's because it's an unrealistic and all around "bad" trope.

Let's just agree to disagree. I don't think there's any more reasonable discussion to be had.