Have you ever had a situation where the game was brazenly playing against you?

[Unamelable]

I'm playing on main save right now and I've been bitten twice there. And both for absolutely stupid reasons.

1. When I got over the fence, and I was in a stunlocked by animation. And when I had 69% bite protection. (3 layers of clothes)

2. When in another sweep, the game cheated me out. (I PUSHED the zombie away from me, the animation played that the character PUSHED the zombie away, and I got a bite on my left arm) where there were already 4 layers of clothing and 74% protection from the bite.

 

The question is, what's the point of tailoring if I have such a retarded defense system. Now i have a clear feeling that the game is really cheating. Because it is not once I fell for such an outrage, but if even before that I could discount that it is a skill issue. Now I'm ready to pull the developers for it.

 

Put on anti-personnel bombproof armor, but a zombie will chew through the metal armor and bite you in the ass. Seriously, that pisses me off.

 

[EnigmaGrey]

Again, why is it a surprise that 74% isn’t 100%? 
 

Just mod find and replace ScratchDefense and BiteDefense to 100 if it’s such a big of a deal to require another thread on it? 

[Unamelable]

39 minutes ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Again, why is it a surprise that 74% isn’t 100%? 
 

Just mod find and replace ScratchDefense and BiteDefense to 100 if it’s such a big of a deal to require another thread on it? 

Yes I will cry on the forum until this nonsense is not fixed. This is absurd!

[EnigmaGrey]

Baring an actual bug, the only "fix" that I could see being in line with how the system operates is rolling the dice once per layer, which means having to display the probability 4 different times if you use 4 different layers. But I think it's safe to say if the end result is still you getting bit through 4 layers, you'd still be upset about it.  Or, if we really do make something truly invulnerable, it's going to be coming at costs that you've (iirc) already stated you're not willing to pay, be it from encumbrance, insulation, and/or the potential to be grabbed/pinned.

 

So when it tells you 1/4 chance you're getting got, believe it, rather than focus on the number of layers you have alone. And if that's not enough,  that's fine. Through the power of modding, you can "fix" things you disagree with yourself. Nothing wrong with acting with agency instead of waiting for others to eventually, if ever, come around to your view.

[Unamelable]

4 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Baring an actual bug, the only "fix" that I could see being in line with how the system operates is rolling the dice once per layer, which means having to display the probability 4 different times if you use 4 different layers. But I think it's safe to say if the end result is still you getting bit through 4 layers, you'd still be upset about it.  Or, if we really do make something truly invulnerable, it's going to be coming at costs that you've (iirc) already stated you're not willing to pay, be it from encumbrance, insulation, and/or the potential to be grabbed/pinned.

 

So when it tells you 1/4 chance you're getting got, believe it, rather than focus on the number of layers you have alone. And if that's not enough,  that's fine. Through the power of modding, you can "fix" things you disagree with yourself. Nothing wrong with acting with agency instead of waiting for others to eventually, if ever, come around to your view.

The point is that in a vanilla game you thus spoil the whole idea of tailoring. Even if you survived for a month or more, found all the "best" things in the game. Got your sewing up to level 10. You will still lose to random. Sure you can survive a few bad moments. But personally in my experience, the character either did not get any bites (that is, the clothes were intact - but the sound of tearing is present). Or there is but it must be very lucky because you still have the most vulnerable places like groin, neck and hands.

 

If we can still imagine that we can achieve 100% torso protection (although this is still impossible, you will still have 97% protection no matter what). Plus it will be impossible to wear it in summer, so we have to compromise. It turns out that in a game about Zombie Apocalypse, zombies chew through all 4 layers of clothing with one bite.

 

Why bother with defense if it's completely useless? The game does have a lot of unlucky moments. I'm not even talking about the chance of infection from a scratch or a laceration. And against the background of the fact that I play with "infection through a bite", this is a particularly unfair moment - where I just learn the world of the game, study mods, set myself goals and achievements, to then die from a simply brilliant system of armor in the game, which in fact does not work, or works but very strange and very buggy.

 

My ass is burning not in an empty place, if my progress is drained in such idiocy, then any person would be angry.

 

I VERY much hope that the armor in the game buff or at least polish stunlocks with animations, and finally, at least, to work out the combat to the ideal, because in a game like this. Such illogistics is fatal in every sense.

 

And shove the work with the "armor fix" on modders is already a revelation. If that number of downloads doesn't tell you, then what does?

[EnigmaGrey]

Cause a 3% chance to get got is better than a 100% chance to get got, as the RNG gods decree. Does this really need an explainer?  If so, PZ is a game that has RNG baked into its blood; tailoring is no different. It's not a guarantee, it's a chance to save your ass if you screw up. You don't rely on it and if that doesn't work for you, then you don't have to use it.

 

And no, mod numbers don't tell me much beyond everyone has different tastes and possibly <2% of owners want  invisible clothing patches? Good for them, I say (I wouldn't mind having more invisible patches at higher tailoring levels either, but what's this got to do with anything?) Essentially, you buy into the devs' vision for a game like PZ and then you customize it to taste. You're welcome to disagree, but that's about as far as it'll go -- we'll disagree.

[Phack]

On 12/6/2023 at 12:49 AM, Unamelable said:

The point is that in a vanilla game you thus spoil the whole idea of tailoring. Even if you survived for a month or more, found all the "best" things in the game. Got your sewing up to level 10. You will still lose to random. Sure you can survive a few bad moments. But personally in my experience, the character either did not get any bites (that is, the clothes were intact - but the sound of tearing is present). Or there is but it must be very lucky because you still have the most vulnerable places like groin, neck and hands.

 

If we can still imagine that we can achieve 100% torso protection (although this is still impossible, you will still have 97% protection no matter what). Plus it will be impossible to wear it in summer, so we have to compromise. It turns out that in a game about Zombie Apocalypse, zombies chew through all 4 layers of clothing with one bite.

 

Why bother with defense if it's completely useless? The game does have a lot of unlucky moments. I'm not even talking about the chance of infection from a scratch or a laceration. And against the background of the fact that I play with "infection through a bite", this is a particularly unfair moment - where I just learn the world of the game, study mods, set myself goals and achievements, to then die from a simply brilliant system of armor in the game, which in fact does not work, or works but very strange and very buggy.

 

My ass is burning not in an empty place, if my progress is drained in such idiocy, then any person would be angry.

 

I VERY much hope that the armor in the game buff or at least polish stunlocks with animations, and finally, at least, to work out the combat to the ideal, because in a game like this. Such illogistics is fatal in every sense.

 

And shove the work with the "armor fix" on modders is already a revelation. If that number of downloads doesn't tell you, then what does?

 

I play the game as designed and as everybody I feel the extreme pain of losing a character, but I don't think it is an idiocy and never became angry because of how the system work. 

 

74% ain't 100%, as the other guy said. See, people win the lottery, with the odds being 0,0000003% lol. If you think probabitlity is unfair, just mod the game as you wish or play another game.

[Unamelable]

33 minutes ago, Phack said:

 

I play the game as designed and as everybody I feel the extreme pain of losing a character, but I don't think it is an idiocy and never became angry because of how the system work. 

 

74% ain't 100%, as the other guy said. See, people win the lottery, with the odds being 0,0000003% lol. If you think probabitlity is unfair, just mod the game as you wish or play another game.

meh just be cyborg or somethin

just don't make mistakes lmao, skill isue tbh

[EnigmaGrey]

Basically? Most survival games are like this. You weigh the risks for what you want and accept that you might die if you bite off more than you can chew. That is, if the goal is primary not to die vs. have fun, you minimize risk as much as possible. And until you know what you don't know, you're inherently going to make bad decisions that lead to your demise.

 

I'm not personally a fan of the "git good" thing, but the player needs to take some agency and learn how to play the game; know what their limits are; and seek out / understand its quirks. Same as any game.

 

That does not mean PZ is perfect, but it's generally predictable once you learn how it operates. For example, players and zombies can clip through one another, so fighting when moving forward is a very dangerous gamble. It's janky, dare I say, broken, and I really want to see it improved one day, but you mitigate it by learning to kite zombies instead (or having a very keen eye for spacing between you, the zombie, and your chosen weapon and timing). I mean you're free to be mad at the game for letting it happen, but you now know something more about how to survive, right? That understanding itself should feel good; like matching up yet another piece of a big puzzle.

 

Basically, be curious, die a lot, and over time, master it. That's the game (at least outside of the explore -> loot -> horde dynamic). Or make your own fun by modding such trivialities out and playing with sandbox settings.

[Unamelable]

16 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Basically? Most survival games are like this. You weigh the risks for what you want and accept that you might die if you bite off more than you can chew. That is, if the goal is primary not to die vs. have fun, you minimize risk as much as possible. And until you know what you don't know, you're inherently going to make bad decisions that lead to your demise.

 

I'm not personally a fan of the "git good" thing, but the player needs to take some agency and learn how to play the game; know what their limits are; and seek out / understand its quirks. Same as any game.

 

That does not mean PZ is perfect, but it's generally predictable once you learn how it operates. For example, players and zombies can clip through one another, so fighting when moving forward is a very dangerous gamble. It's janky, dare I say, broken, and I really want to see it improved one day, but you mitigate it by learning to kite zombies instead (or having a very keen eye for spacing between you, the zombie, and your chosen weapon and timing). I mean you're free to be mad at the game for letting it happen, but you now know something more about how to survive, right? That understanding itself should feel good; like matching up yet another piece of a big puzzle.

 

Basically, be curious, die a lot, and over time, master it. That's the game (at least outside of the explore -> loot -> horde dynamic). Or make your own fun by modding such trivialities out and playing with sandbox settings.

In general, I was yelling about how pointless and insignificant the armor system is. But these are my problems, but I will continue the topic of conversation.

 

The game positions itself as a realistic zombie survivalist. So why don't we use the Dungeons & Dragons system then lol? Let everything go randomly, it’s also more realistic. If I want to play with random, I will go and open cases in CSGO (gambling is very bad). If you're an idiot going up against 50 zombies, and you're suddenly locked out by one of the zombies in the horde, then it's game over! You're the one who screwed up my friend. But when it comes to the fact that there are 2 zombies, or even 1. And when one bites you “because of the idiocy of the mechanics who sometimes play the game with you, (guess what kind of bug).” And when zombies bite you 3 or 4 times, it’s comical and incredibly unlucky.

 

More than once or twice I had an open desire to drag my game character down for doing those things that I clearly did not require of him. Although I’m already used to it because I completely switched to manual control and I “feel” its control more since I turned off the casual things. The most glaring example: The character switches his aim to the front zombie instead of punching down, causing me to miss an important hit in this dance round. AND THIS JUST PISSES ME OUT, I played with this for about 700 hours until my nerves just gave out and I switched to the manual down cursor because I was just tired.

 

Or another simply excellent solution is not to give the player the opportunity to watch what is happening below from the second floor, or damn it, just LOOK WHAT IS GOING ON ON THE SECOND FLOOR. If in the case of a “surprise at the door” there are several tactics, and if you are not too confident in yourself, then you can resist it. Then in this case, pray that 5 zombies don’t accidentally come at you. (Actually, I play loudly because I want my lawn to be as clean as possible so that I can calmly start looting the quarantine zone, because I equate the stealth in this game to the "Rookie Trap". It works, no doubt. But it also has quite a few disadvantages and disadvantages in which one of them is this very problem.

 

Or let’s also give an example of a moment where you can’t just get back from a window or a rag rope. This is generally the ambassador of clownery. I can still understand when I know what is inside or below. But when I find out about this and I CANNOT GO BACK. This is a death sentence, no matter how you try, in vanilla PZ there are just a bunch of moronic moments that turn me inside out. And I really want the developers to counteract this mess

 

 

I really love Project Zomboid because of its unique setting, idea, and open modding. And I respect the developers, and I have a lot of trust in them. But such moments really spoil my impression which has to be patched up with mods. In the worst case, make those same mods because no one has come up with this in the workshop yet.

 

Damn, I created Clear Moodles, no one even knew that they had such a critical effect in addition to the combat status.

 

EDIT: I understand that I am human and I will make mistakes, the most I can do is minimize them. And when the armor becomes useless, what can I do? Turn off infection through saliva? What then is the point of a game in which your progress is lost because of such idiocy? (not including mods what saves your progress)

 

EDIT2: I also got caught in a bug where zombies were biting me through an "unclosed" car door.

[Unamelable]

 

[Unamelable]

Okay, let's take Left 4 Dead 2 as an example (I played a lot of hours there, and I feel this game almost the same way as Project Zomboid). And there is no need to point out that these are two vastly different genres. I'll give you an example of how this game treats you "correctly".

 

In L4D we have a list of unexpected moments that can be prevented by the team's or player's awareness. The player has a counterattack against all "special infected". Because of what you feel that in the game you can achieve mastery and this will be rewarded by the game. And I'm sure that this was done by Valve specifically so that players could make mind-blowing comebacks in versus mode. The game also has an "AI-Director" which gives you resources. You can spend a little time exploring locations to find resources. And each new run will not be the previous one, which is why you can say the game plays dice with you, in exchange for the fact that you will lose a little time and meet another wave of zombies.

In the game you feel your character, that is, the more you play for him. The better you control it, I'm good at banging and I get a kick out of it. And in this game you have one very important thing, and both games have it - this is SHOVE. If in Project Zomboid pushing is determined by the multi-hit parameter. And it is a necessity. In Left 4 Dead 2 you can't use it endlessly, but you also stunning many common infected. And yes, L4D2 has a terrible hitreg for melee, just drop it to pile of junk, jess..

 

And now I’ll give specifics here (it was necessary to write the context for this). In Expert in Left 4 Dead - one hit of any infected person takes 10-20 HP per hit (30 from special infected but they have triggerbot so whatever). And when you're playing against hordes of zombies, you can't let anyone get close to you, otherwise you'll die VERY quickly. If in this game, and in this mode (yes, my ass was on fire there at the beginning, too, but I got used to it and gained mastery). Your task was to correctly distribute resources in the team, since there is also a factor with newcomers where they don’t really understand this. And when you assemble a team of players who are just as experienced as you. You get ecstasy from the fact that you went through this hell together, and without mistakes.

 

In Project Zomboid, the combat system needs to be PERFECT. Because one bite can end the whole walkthrough and probably the whole world if you don't want to go through it again. And therein lies the main problem of Project Zomboid - TOO MANY STUPID MOMENTS and probably bugs))0. Although the game says that it’s scary how you died, wow, but if in the case of Left 4 Dead 2 you can resist this, the game gives you this. In Project Zomboid, due to poorly polished mechanics and situations, you will die anyway. And it’s okay if you feel this at the beginning. Sounds logical right?

 

But when you want to live for about a year in Project Zomboid. You can't. Turn off infection through saliva. The game won't let you, it really likes to trip you up in illogical ways and will make you suffer.

 

If Project Zomboid reaches the level of "fairness" with Left 4 Dead. Then I can consider this topic closed. Until then, I will criticize her for this.

[Unamelable]

My the last straw moment

[Unamelable]

Lack of achievements than simple mix-maxing, looting and collectivizing.

Game really don't have any means of accomplished goals at any mean

No traders, no special deals, no XP boosters than simple looting

 

 

[EnigmaGrey]

Basically telling the Microsoft Flight Simulator of zombie survival games (To cut off the "but it's not realistic!" angle, no, it's not: zombie survival games aren't known for being realistic; we're just realistic-er. It's a low bar to clear and we're still beholden to our setting and lore.) to be Pilot Wings. (Don't get me wrong, I love Pilot Wings. Great franchise.)

Really not going for Left 4 Dead here, so. What's there to say? You're not going to get a "fair" experience out of the vanilla game.

 

Surviving a year isn't exactly unheard of here. So all I can really say on this is if you expect the game to be something it's not, if you insist it be something it's not, you'll always be disappointed with it. You'll always get tripped up if you expect something other than what it gives and refuse to accept that.

 

"But when you want to live for about a year in Project Zomboid. You can't."

 

People do, though. It's not that hard.  It's just rather boring.

[Unamelable]

2 hours ago, EnigmaGrey said:

Basically telling the Microsoft Flight Simulator of zombie survival games (To cut off the "but it's not realistic!" angle, no, it's not: zombie survival games aren't known for being realistic; we're just realistic-er. It's a low bar to clear and we're still beholden to our setting and lore.) to be Pilot Wings. (Don't get me wrong, I love Pilot Wings. Great franchise.)

Really not going for Left 4 Dead here, so. What's there to say? You're not going to get a "fair" experience out of the vanilla game.

 

Surviving a year isn't exactly unheard of here. So all I can really say on this is if you expect the game to be something it's not, if you insist it be something it's not, you'll always be disappointed with it. You'll always get tripped up if you expect something other than what it gives and refuse to accept that.

 

"But when you want to live for about a year in Project Zomboid. You can't."

 

People do, though. It's not that hard.  It's just rather boring.

What I didn't expect is that the game is strangely buggy and unfair when it has a very thin line with death, one scratch can finish you off. This convention entirely shows how much the game punishes you for a minor oversight. But when you have a bunch of other situations where you simply have nothing to counterattack with, it certainly gets incredibly frustrating.

 

And I wouldn't say that PZ is like MS Flight Simulator, it's more like a little bit harder than Left 4 Dead. It's Sims on steroids, or simply what I call "Sims 1 but with too many mods". And I like this vibe. When I first started playing PZ I uninstalled it 3 times, before I got serious because it's really the first isometric style game that I really wasted before.

 

As for longevity. Sure I can hit all the pharmacies in Kentucky, hock myself with sleeping pills while checking out the farm. Well, or live very far away from cities, focusing on gathering/farming/trapping/fishing. But what's Project Zomboid without the zombies themselves? That's why I say it's simply impossible to live up to a year in the game, near zombies at least. Because of the conventions I listed above.

 

I am specifically in Louisville to study it in detail, and those moments that I posted are the only two times where I had bad luck. Which is why I'm confidently throwing sewing in the trash skills. Also do not forget that Project Zomboid is a simulator, and if there are bugs in the simulator - it is critical. Especially with the rules that the game gives you right now.

[Unamelable]

- You can't see the zombies behind the car

- The character enters the car in a very leisurely and funky manner

- The character can't find the car handle if you press E

 

In general, the actions of the character with the car is a separate torture

[puppers]

5 hours ago, Unamelable said:

What I didn't expect is that the game is strangely buggy and unfair when it has a very thin line with death, one scratch can finish you off. This convention entirely shows how much the game punishes you for a minor oversight. But when you have a bunch of other situations where you simply have nothing to counterattack with, it certainly gets incredibly frustrating.

 

 

Have you tried playing with just bites(saliva)? Not sure what you mean by "strangely buggy"? There are a bunch of settings that make the game less frustrating. 

 

I love pz because it punishes me for making stupid mistakes by being over confident it is one of the best features of the game, how difficult and challenging it is, because of these mechanics. 

[Unamelable]

1 hour ago, puppers said:

Have you tried playing with just bites(saliva)? Not sure what you mean by "strangely buggy"? There are a bunch of settings that make the game less frustrating. 

 

I love pz because it punishes me for making stupid mistakes by being over confident it is one of the best features of the game, how difficult and challenging it is, because of these mechanics. 

YES I ARE. But armor what don't save you at all freaks me out. That why i started this topic at first place.

[puppers]

51 minutes ago, Unamelable said:

YES I ARE. But armor what don't save you at all freaks me out. That why i started this topic at first place.

I think when it comes to a game like this; where you are out looting in a zombie snackocalypse, armor that would be bite proof would be kind of over powered if you were able to get items without a " risk vs reward" and just run around without worrying about being bitten. Need to have balance and zombies need to be threatening and dangerous, besides theres some decent vanilla items like fire fighter gear.