More Downsides to Guns

[Daec]

Honestly, when I'm out target shooting I take easily 5 seconds to line up shots with a pistol. You have no idea how ridiculously hard it is to hit things with pistols, especially at considerable range. It's hard. You have to make sure the gun lines up along your eye towards the target without being canted too far up or down, you have to get the lead sight in between the two rear sights (if using that kinda set-up), you have to account for your hands shaking, and you have to squeeze the trigger gently. People who jerk the trigger like they're having a seizure (which is what most people who have never been instructed on shooting do) would probably never hit a target 20 feet away with an average pistol. People underestimate how challenging it is to shoot things with a pistol so hard.

I shot small caliber, so the basics of shooting and aiming aren't unknown to me (don't ask me for the size, it's been 14 years ago...whatever is considered small caliber in germany ^^)

 

5 seconds are pretty long if you have zombies are coming for you ^^

[Kajin]

It probably is a long time, but if you're fighting a slow moving horde and you're slowly backing away a good distance after every few shots, five seconds is a reasonable amount of time for an accurate shot.

 

I'd say the higher the skill, the easier it is to pull off quick shots at a distance, but you can still do the charge up for even more accurate shots. Like in the aforementioned scenarios. A person with high skill in handguns could accurately place three out of five head shots into an approaching horde by quick firing at a decent distance while someone less skilled would have to wait for them to get closer while aiming more carefully.

[Major_Malice]

I have to say that I do like the idea of having hearing penalties when shooting indoors, but maybe not when shooting out of a window?

 

I also do like the idea of having to take a bit longer to line up a shot for pistols and rifles... especially if the target is towards the edge of the effective range. A shot gun... yeah you do have to aim but if you have buck shot it spreads out.... Then again if you are firing a shotgun at point blank range, the sabot does not get far enough out to drop away from the shot and it will hit the target as if it were a slug.

 

Good ideas though!

[Daec]

I guess here you'll find more thoughts about the hearing penalty.

 

i don't really like this idea anymore since it was discussed fully in that thread

[Rathlord]

5 seconds are pretty long if you have zombies are coming for you ^^

 

5 seconds doesn't sound so bad when you consider that, in a 10 round clip, you might only make one headshot if you're NOT spending five seconds on each. Then you get to fumble around with reloading and you've only made one shot.

 

A shot gun... yeah you do have to aim but if you have buck shot it spreads out.... 

 

That's not how buck shot works XD

 

Edit: Specifically, buck shot is fired with a very tight choke tube (a piece that screws onto the end of shotguns to determine the spread) and buck shot is designed specifically to spread out as little as possible. Most people actually don't even know that choke tubes exist, so here's a handy and short explanation of what they are and how they work if you're interested: http://www.briley.com/understandingshotgunchokesabriefexplanationbybriley.aspx

[Major_Malice]

 

5 seconds are pretty long if you have zombies are coming for you ^^

 

5 seconds doesn't sound so bad when you consider that, in a 10 round clip, you might only make one headshot if you're NOT spending five seconds on each. Then you get to fumble around with reloading and you've only made one shot.

 

A shot gun... yeah you do have to aim but if you have buck shot it spreads out.... 

 

That's not how buck shot works XD

 

Edit: Specifically, buck shot is fired with a very tight choke tube (a piece that screws onto the end of shotguns to determine the spread) and buck shot is designed specifically to spread out as little as possible. Most people actually don't even know that choke tubes exist, so here's a handy and short explanation of what they are and how they work if you're interested: http://www.briley.com/understandingshotgunchokesabriefexplanationbybriley.aspx

 

buckshot does spread out over range though, but yeah... close range it is very focused, medium range it strikes about the area of a dinnerplate and at long range it is all over the place. XD

 

It's kinda neat that several of the devs have actually fired these kinda of firearms before and know a bit about them.

 

Edit: Still, chokes do make a big difference like you said Rath

[Rathlord]

Worth noting I'm not a dev- just tech support and Mac stuff mainly. And as far as I know none of our devs have ever fired a weapon- but I'm always there to advise them

[Daec]

Worth noting I'm not a dev- just tech support and Mac stuff mainly. And as far as I know none of our devs have ever fired a weapon- but I'm always there to advise them

Cause if the Rathlord would develop a game, it would never get finished...to much knowledge for one poor little game

propably something like "Receiver"...but with 100% bullet physics....and thermodynamics...and quantum science...and time travel wich would be mathematical fully adequate...and stuff.....don't you forget about the stuff!!! 

[Bioradical]

 

Honestly, when I'm out target shooting I take easily 5 seconds to line up shots with a pistol. You have no idea how ridiculously hard it is to hit things with pistols, especially at considerable range. It's hard. You have to make sure the gun lines up along your eye towards the target without being canted too far up or down, you have to get the lead sight in between the two rear sights (if using that kinda set-up), you have to account for your hands shaking, and you have to squeeze the trigger gently. People who jerk the trigger like they're having a seizure (which is what most people who have never been instructed on shooting do) would probably never hit a target 20 feet away with an average pistol. People underestimate how challenging it is to shoot things with a pistol so hard.

I shot small caliber, so the basics of shooting and aiming aren't unknown to me (don't ask me for the size, it's been 14 years ago...whatever is considered small caliber in germany ^^)

 

5 seconds are pretty long if you have zombies are coming for you ^^

 

 

Being realistic about the whole scenario, a zombie 2 steps from you is going to present a much larger area for a headshot than a zombie 20 yards away from you by a few thousand percent when it comes down to perspective.

 

Plus most inexperienced people won't hit something the size of a head if you give them 5 minutes at 20 yards to line up their shot, especially if it's moving. Inexperienced shooters will jerk their wrist or close their eyes at the last second as they expect to be startled from the recoil and report. We're talking about a realistic survival zombie game, if it's a town in America it needs to have more ammo but accuracy should be realistically portrayed to balance things out and make going Rambo a non-option for players with no skill points.

[Bioradical]

 

 

5 seconds are pretty long if you have zombies are coming for you ^^

 

5 seconds doesn't sound so bad when you consider that, in a 10 round clip, you might only make one headshot if you're NOT spending five seconds on each. Then you get to fumble around with reloading and you've only made one shot.

 

A shot gun... yeah you do have to aim but if you have buck shot it spreads out.... 

 

That's not how buck shot works XD

 

Edit: Specifically, buck shot is fired with a very tight choke tube (a piece that screws onto the end of shotguns to determine the spread) and buck shot is designed specifically to spread out as little as possible. Most people actually don't even know that choke tubes exist, so here's a handy and short explanation of what they are and how they work if you're interested: http://www.briley.com/understandingshotgunchokesabriefexplanationbybriley.aspx

 

buckshot does spread out over range though, but yeah... close range it is very focused, medium range it strikes about the area of a dinnerplate and at long range it is all over the place. XD

 

It's kinda neat that several of the devs have actually fired these kinda of firearms before and know a bit about them.

 

Edit: Still, chokes do make a big difference like you said Rath

 

 

Also consider the round as well, birdshot has far more pellets to fill out a target at 100yrds vs buckshot.

 

I wouldn't mind some slug rounds though, mostly for anti NPC applications.

[Rathlord]

Birdshot won't penetrate a human skull at any range beyond a few yards though.

[Kajin]

Good for hunting birds far out in the wilderness though. Or causing agonizing injuries in living targets.

[Bioradical]

Are you really going to use a shotgun at more than 20 yards in the event of a zombie apocalypse?

And we are also assuming that the bones of zombies that are weeks to months old are still of the same structural integrity as healthy humans, and haven't undergone significant diagenesis with collagen deteriorating and tissues decalcifying bone due to decomposing flesh generating a fair amount of acid. If scavengers aren't picking the corpses clean, bones are going to be in a gradually worsening acidic environment and thus will become far more brittle.

This depends on the lore you wish to follow however, I suppose voodoo zombies will remain fresh for longer.

 

But regarding birdshot:

 

It depends on your choke, and your load, but birdshot shouldn't be ruled out based on the name alone.

Larger grades of birdshot and especially tungsten loads will readily take down a zombie assuming you're at a reasonable range and hit the head (which we're assuming is the only effective spot), and for women the recoil would be preferable to a 000 buckshot.

If I found birdshot that was a #4 or larger, I'd take it.

But I do agree that people unfamiliar with chokes and shot numbers should default to buckshot and slugs.

[Spaniard]

Guns are fine the way they are.

 

People shouldn't be forced into only using melee.

 

Allow people to play the way they want.

Ugh, so banal.

Why do so many gamers confuse decisions with being forced to play a certain way? I like the idea that you can "charge" your aim while using fire arms. Not only does it make sense but it gives you more things to consider beforw you brandish your glock.

[mikaelkerensky]

Honestly, when I'm out target shooting I take easily 5 seconds to line up shots with a pistol. You have no idea how ridiculously hard it is to hit things with pistols, especially at considerable range. It's hard. You have to make sure the gun lines up along your eye towards the target without being canted too far up or down, you have to get the lead sight in between the two rear sights (if using that kinda set-up), you have to account for your hands shaking, and you have to squeeze the trigger gently. People who jerk the trigger like they're having a seizure (which is what most people who have never been instructed on shooting do) would probably never hit a target 20 feet away with an average pistol. People underestimate how challenging it is to shoot things with a pistol so hard.

I shot small caliber, so the basics of shooting and aiming aren't unknown to me (don't ask me for the size, it's been 14 years ago...whatever is considered small caliber in germany ^^)

5 seconds are pretty long if you have zombies are coming for you ^^

Being realistic about the whole scenario, a zombie 2 steps from you is going to present a much larger area for a headshot than a zombie 20 yards away from you by a few thousand percent when it comes down to perspective.

Plus most inexperienced people won't hit something the size of a head if you give them 5 minutes at 20 yards to line up their shot, especially if it's moving. Inexperienced shooters will jerk their wrist or close their eyes at the last second as they expect to be startled from the recoil and report. We're talking about a realistic survival zombie game, if it's a town in America it needs to have more ammo but accuracy should be realistically portrayed to balance things out and make going Rambo a non-option for players with no skill points.

Totally agreed. Once you start going for geadshots accuracy decreases dramatically. I usually hate when people do this, but to quote an example from walking dead, remember when shane was trying to teach amy how to shoot using the swinging log? Takes a lot of practice to hit a small moving target like that, especially if you're nervous and inexperienced.