Fj45

The majority are zombies, but that's not the point.
 
I'm going round in circles here. I'm not insulting or degrading or doing anything to insult your knowledge of the subject you clearly have at hand. You may be a professional or some great hobbyist regarding this subject. That's fine. I don't know the subject the hand, because I lack knowledge of it. This is my point. I lack knowledge. People in this thread lack knowledge of this sort of thing, this is NOT common knowledge. This is a learned and specialised subject. If the apocalypse were to happen right now, I would still lack the knowledge to build a furnace, because it's not common knowledge. I have not learned it.
 
I'm not here debating metal melting points, how easy it is to build a furnace or any of that. I'm not here to argue of what you may have knowledge here. I'm here arguing that building a furnace is not common knowledge so every survivor should would not know how to build one, or assemble it correctly. Zombies may be the majority but that doesn't mean the people who are left as survivors are some sort of geniuses. There will be idiots among them who got lucky. There will be people who are strong and ruthless people and that's how they survived.
 
This is just tiring now. I've reiterated my previous points again. They're there in my previous post, as was the appeal to reach middle ground. 
 
 
 
Okay, this I actually understand and is a fair point. I am very much a city person so my knowledge with differ from that of a person who lives in the countryside. So to be fair people there could understand all this, but being in a different culture I just don't understand it.
 
If not occupation based, it would be great if PZ introduced a sort of hobby choice, allowing you an expanded knowledge in a certain field beyond your proffesion. Would allow for an interesting mix and match dynamic.

You're being rather insulting to people in this thread, and rather ad hominem in you're responses. You're going to get dragged into this because of that. You can't expect people to ignore someone who slings mud at them then goes "I'm not part of this, so you can't touch me."
 
 
I think the general problem with this thread (and many others that stem from suggestions) is basically what people think Project Zomboid is/will be about. Is it the realistic survival game? Or is it the zombie survival game that takes liberties with certain aspects of realism or there about. I've always maintained the belief that the game has always been focused on realism, giving way to unrealistic ideas when it presents a deeper working for the game, but can still be called within the realms of the realistic.
 
In a way I don't really think a consensus could ever be reached, because the two sides have different beliefs on what the game is/going to be. Which brings us to this point of circulation. I think this thread is starting to lose it's civility somewhat, and seems to be going downhill the longer it gets drawn out. 
 
I'm still firm in my belief that it shouldn't be in the game (with the exceptions I mentioned in my previous post.)

Thread music

I've seen that before. I even specifically referenced that build (hairdryer and all) in my last post if you'd bothered to read it =\
 
The problem with those is that they will barely keep tin hot enough to melt. There's a thick, solid coating over the top because that setup can't even keep it hot enough to stay liquid, not to mention hot enough to have time to cast it. And again- THAT'S TIN. Try hammering in a tin nail, and get back to me. Go on, I'll wait.
 
Do me a huge favor and read over this quick list of metal melting points. Go on, once again, I'll wait. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/melting-temperature-metals-d_860.html
 
Yes, tin is almost a power of 5 lower melting point than any usable metal. Not sure how much more evidence I need to throw forward as to how silly this is, but I keep getting more and more suspicious that some people in this conversation have caught a bad case of internet-know-it-all fever. It's not as easy as you think it is.
 
Edit: Laughing out loud right now, the link provided as "Example B" so smugly lists that there are approximately 4000 hobby and professional blacksmiths registered in the U.S. Granted, there could be plenty of people who aren't registered, but even assuming 1000x the number of registered people were unregistered, that still means chances are there isn't a single one in Muldraugh, KY. This thread is practically digging its own grave for me. It also mentions they had a professional metalworker involved, specialty parts that had to be delivered, and special coal. Oh, and specific welding equipment. And special kiln cement. And instructions.

Something you can make with common items != basic/common knowledge. While I suppose you could learn this sort of information from a skill books, one has to argue, what books would have this information? The internet is a wonderful place where you can learn to do anything and has just about everything, but I doubt books would provide knowledge for something that is this risky.

lolz
"OMG! I'm saved!" Squish

I didn't mean the cylinder exploding, really. I meant the lines coming out of the hookup, or the forge itself. All can be explosive if handled wrong, especially with cobbled together home made bits (such as a blowdrier for a bellows, which I've seen done before). Gas tanks are fairly tough, and the failsafe mechanisms fairly reliable (I used to work at a place that handled natural gas and kerosene, so I have a decent amount of experience myself), but that doesn't mean your average person can fit it all together in such a way that it all works, not to mention in a way that doesn't injure them.
 
I hope you can see the difference between cocking up a set of drawers (which, as I already pointed out, is almost completely safe and the materials are everywhere) versus cocking up a dangerous forging procedure with very easily potentially deadly forces involved, and once again how common the materials are for one versus the other.

Hmm... interesting stuff.
 
Do you think you will expand further out into the rail yard?
 
 
Zed's did spawn while I was making trips to the woodline to the SW.  After the third or fouth trip (clearing them out each time), they quit spawning.  A few would just wander into the area every now and again (I guess they are filling the Zed vacuum).  I delved out into the rail yard a bit more to thin their numbers.  With the amount of lumber nearby and 20 boxes of nails, I could build one LARGE fort.  As it stands now, I am going to fortify the building I am in, waiting for the building bug to be resolved.  One could easily cordon off a section on the far side of the reinforced metal fence as a large farm, and keep the base pretty secure.  I am also going to build some independent fortifications out in the yard, well away from my base.  This should draw some of the roaming Zeds to fixed locations away from my fort, so I can thin their numbers while keeping by base of operations obscure.
 
If they ever get the 2nd story bug fixed, I could see fortifying a train bunker as a interesting diversion.  This would make an obscenly secure site if/when NPCs are introduced.  After securing one bunker, move onto the next.  When all four are secure, just cordon off the intervening space.  As long as the player stocks in enough water and keeps the crop rotation going it should run smoothly.  If Zeds ever do come in mass, just man the walls and pray you can thin them out before they break through.  If they do break through, fall back to the bunkers.

And how many normal people could work a functional hookup from a gas cylinder to a home made forge without blowing themselves up?
 
Adding new items is completely irrelevant. If that's the best argument you've got, you could also add laser-machinegun toting dinosaurs. It's new things, right?
 
 
I'm sorry, but excluding ideas based on common knowledge is kinda the entire point of PZ. Again, this is not another arcade-y zombie game. It is meant to follow the struggle of an every day person, culminating with their death. I'd be somewhat okay with Connall's suggestion- to have it be an actual profession- but otherwise it's pure silliness.

Fun fact, we've reached (and passed) the SPACE AGE now. So please, go build me a space ship… since, you know, everyone on earth can do the thing the age is named after?
 
PZ is not about playing as children, it's about playing as an average person. The entire point of the entire concept of PZ is to NOT be another unrealistic arcade-y zombie game where you play as a genius superhero with the knowledge of every profession in the world.
 
I think I'm done wasting my time talking to you now; you have no concept of reason or logical argument.

Not to mention there's nothing in place discouraging PvP which I think might be one of it's biggest problems. There's little incentive for co-operation as well, which I just don't think will change with DayZ due to it's history, it's just kind of hard coded into it.
 
I imagine it would be the responsibility of the server operators to encourage PvE and discourage PvP. I mean personally, I despise PvP will all my heart.

Depending on the type of helicopter and how tall the person is, if the blades were running and the player went running towards it, there's a possibility his head could be chopped off.
 

You STILL haven't answered WHY people would need to mine!

There's monumental differences between building a table with drawers and building a functional furnace capable of melting even tin.
 
Furnaces require at least a certain amount of foreknowledge to make- it's highly dubious that anyone would have the resources or time in a situation like this to just "figure out" a functional furnace if they didn't know how to make one, not to mention how to cast and such. It may seem like common knowledge to you, but most people wouldn't even know to add bellows, much less what do with the metal once it was melted, etc.
 
Woodworking, on the other hand, is something even normal people can figure out. Add to that, the materials for woodworking are exponentially more commonplace, not to mention the knowledge of woodworking being equally vastly more common, and I hope you can see that comparison breaks down rapidly.
 
On the whole the idea would just require far too many fortuitous events to be worth the time developing it and adding it. That you'd just happen to be a character with the knowledge of how to build a forge, that you'd just happen to be a character with the knowledge of what to do with a forge once it was built, that you'd just happen to find all of the quite rare materials for the forge, and that you'd just happen to have it all come together in such a way that it would be plausible. Far to much serendipity and happenstance- it's a bad, unrealistic idea that doesn't fit PZ.

The thing is, which is something harakka touches on, is of course something is easy IF you have the knowledge. How many people have the knowledge to do something like that though? That's the bigger question. I don't know how to build a furnace and I imagine others don't as well, it's just not really common knowledge.

The game is meant to be at least remotely realistic. Thus the mining and metalcrafting stuff you mentioned are extremely unlikely to get implemented. Fishing will be implemented at some point.

Exactly.... talking about spice of life as much as anything else
 

...... what.

Have all those motion activated Halloween props mock Zeds: hand coming out of the ground, ghost coming up out of a barrel, plastic corpse sitting up in the lawn, etc.
 
Could be creepy funny, like something from the movie Zombieland

Especially christmas lights, you could wrap those around a house far from your safehouse by day and turn them on, so at night, that house becomes a sort of "Bait House" for the zombies.

Nailing boards together ≠ making a fire hot enough to forge metal. Not even remotely. The real world understanding of people who lurk the internet always blows my mind… if you're just convinced that regardless of what the real world has to say about it, you're right because you've seen a YouTube video… there's not much I can say to convince you. Cheers.

The best way to have weapon crafting would just be to have a character sharpen sticks or something, so that way even if regular weapons actually run out, players can still make weaponry within realistic bounds. And of course, farming and rain barrels for water so you can sustain yourself. Make the players rely on their own skills and ingenuity to survive in the long run.

Because of the people in Muldraugh, Kentucky how many would you say would be technically trained, physically able, and have the supplies to make this happen?
 
Less than 1% of the population (if any) would have the working knowledge to make a forge even well enough to melt tin, not to mention a metal like steel or iron. Add to that the extremely low chances of finding all of those parts with a person who knows how to do it, and you have an incredibly unrealistic system that barely any players could access unless done in a game-y and completely wrong way. 

That's why i think we should have "Professions" along with traits. Maybe only an Electrician can set up solar panels, and only a Mechanic can fix vehicles. Having two people with different professions together could allow you to construct something that you can't do alone. It would encourage teamwork and cooperation, but without making it a requirement.

While I agree about using cannibalized steel for reinforcing & making basic steel objects (aka. rigging together a couple of pieces of steel & saying.... look, its a "table"  )
Building complex structures out of steel is more complicated than it looks, even with "fresh" steel, guillotines, rollers, brake presses.
For example, the idea of the rain cistern.... How would you shape the bed liners for assembly? What about rust & other contaminates? What about purging?
Essentially its the same deal as reusing planks used in carpentry builds, trying to recycle steel like that is a lot more hassle than it looks.
I'm not against the idea of using scrap steel.... Just that complex builds should require "fresh" steel from a steel yard. Or at the very least, require maximum fabricating skill
 
EDIT:
Your basic rule of thumb for fabricating is, get it right the first time.... fold it wrong, cut it wrong, drill it wrong, weld it wrong & your pushing shit uphill trying to get it right. Not to mention something that has already been intentionally folded, cut, drilled, welded
.... Well, that & Keep it Simple Stupid