Throwing stones/equiping them as weapons or throwing skill

[Zombiologist]

I always end up with a lot of rocks and little to use them for. I think perhaps if they were equiped and one was in fighting stance that pressing the space bar would allow a player to throw the stone with something like the spacebar. Perhaps the baseball player trait would increase accurace and damage. Maybe even have a chance of losing the stone/having it break on impact so that one can't simply keep picking up and throwing the same rock indefinitely. It might even work as it's own skill you start by ownly really being able to throw rocks with a decent chance of missing and losing the stone, but as you level up you can throw more things. Like perhaps you can throw rabbit sticks or spears next. As somebody that practices spear throwing a proper throw of a properly sharpened spear could definitely do some damage at least at a relatively close range. Maybe at high levels one could even start throwing knives or axes, or even sharpened wooden stakes like ninjas and hunters used to do in parts of Asia in ancient times (called bo shuriken throwing spikes). I've even seen some people take large nails sharpen them, remove and sand the head, and throw them, though these are largely considered a distraction weapon more than a killing one. You'd need a properly designed metal or wooden throwing spike to really do some damage.

I the option to turn text into a hyperlink is glitching so here is a direct link to a video about throwing spikes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqosuLGiQ_c 

Edit: additionally if you have a stone in your hand or even just a roll of nickles or chapstick it can making throwing a punch much more painful. Perhaps this could translate into a weapon in PZ in some way as well.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Zombiologist
forgotten detail

[knightshousegames]

I have thought it would be cool if you could distract zombies with thrown objects, sorta like The Last of Us, where you could throw bricks or empty bottles to draw the attention of a group in a direction

 

As for thrown weapons, typically thrown weapons other than like the Pilum were mostly for the sake of opening or weakening an enemies defenses, not really for dealing fatal blows. Movies make ninja stars and throwing knives look super deadly, but once you've thrown one yourself, you realize "oh. These are pretty small, and not very heavy..." like it would be a challenge to kill someone with one even if you were holding it in your hand and trying to stab them with it. So as a viable weapon? not really. The only real hand thrown weapons that can get serious kills are grenades and Molotov Cocktails. 

 

So being able to throw objects to direct Zombie attention would definitely be good. And the code is already there for throwing things thanks to pipe bombs and molotovs, so it might not even be hard to implement. But for actually dealing damage? not really.

[Zombiologist]

20 minutes ago, knightshousegames said:

I have thought it would be cool if you could distract zombies with thrown objects, sorta like The Last of Us, where you could throw bricks or empty bottles to draw the attention of a group in a direction

 

As for thrown weapons, typically thrown weapons other than like the Pilum were mostly for the sake of opening or weakening an enemies defenses, not really for dealing fatal blows. Movies make ninja stars and throwing knives look super deadly, but once you've thrown one yourself, you realize "oh. These are pretty small, and not very heavy..." like it would be a challenge to kill someone with one even if you were holding it in your hand and trying to stab them with it. So as a viable weapon? not really. The only real hand thrown weapons that can get serious kills are grenades and Molotov Cocktails. 

 

So being able to throw objects to direct Zombie attention would definitely be good. And the code is already there for throwing things thanks to pipe bombs and molotovs, so it might not even be hard to implement. But for actually dealing damage? not really.

I do like the idea of distracting the zombies this way.

As far as killing in one hit that would take quite a bit of skill as the thrown object needs to go fast and hit accurately, but it definitely can be done. I've thrown a hatchet and split a log in two, which is much stronger than a skull. However even if it didn't kill the zombie a good blow to the head could fracture the skull and make the kill easier. Additionally I'm not sure if you've been hit in the head with thrown rocks before, but I have and it's nothing to joke around with. Even a small child can throw a stone hard enough to hurt like hell, a baseball player could certainly do some damage with a few well placed throws. A kill in a single hit is not something that would happen often but if you have a bucket full of stones and a good throwing arm you'd probably be able to kill a zombie. In medieval times simply dropping rocks on enemies was a common and quite effective way to defend a castle. They used something called a murderhole to make a choke point.

Additionally thrown weapons were commonly used for hunting in ancient times, spears, bo shuriken, and heavy stones dropped from above are all believed to have been used by hunter gathers and some even later into history. If it's good enough to hunt a deer I'm sure a skilled user could kill a zombie.

On the other hand I actually think Molotov cocktails and grenades would be largely ineffective against zombies. Grenades don't typically destroy a brain, just main a person and in war are primarily used as a distraction rather than a killing weapon. Most zombies would be largely unaffected by a grenade blast. Likewise when people are set on fire usually what kills thems are lung burns or if they survive skin burns and infections days later, unless smoke inhalation gets them first which is most common. It would have to be a very intense fire like being trapped in a burning building or forest fire to burn the brain or muscular system badly enough to stop a zombie because of all the water in a human body. Otherwise either the zombies would need to be severely dehydrated to the point their fat turns into that mummified soap material, or setting them on fire would just create an even bigger hazard to your survival and they'd ultimately burn out before they died, becoming charred but still quite dangerous. I do wonder if burning them, then letting them dry out for a few days, then burning them again would do the trick. I suppose I'd need some live zombies to test it on.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Zombiologist

[CaptKaspar]

5 hours ago, knightshousegames said:

I have thought it would be cool if you could distract zombies with thrown objects, sorta like The Last of Us, where you could throw bricks or empty bottles to draw the attention of a group in a direction

 

As for thrown weapons, typically thrown weapons other than like the Pilum were mostly for the sake of opening or weakening an enemies defenses, not really for dealing fatal blows. Movies make ninja stars and throwing knives look super deadly, but once you've thrown one yourself, you realize "oh. These are pretty small, and not very heavy..." like it would be a challenge to kill someone with one even if you were holding it in your hand and trying to stab them with it. So as a viable weapon? not really. The only real hand thrown weapons that can get serious kills are grenades and Molotov Cocktails. 

 

So being able to throw objects to direct Zombie attention would definitely be good. And the code is already there for throwing things thanks to pipe bombs and molotovs, so it might not even be hard to implement. But for actually dealing damage? not really.

 

I also really like the idea of throwing rocks to make noise as a distraction. 

 

We also have to think about what we're fighting. To kill a zombie you need to destroy the brain. Even a grenade is going to do an overall bad job at that. Sure some shrapnel might hit them in the head, but a lot of it will hit other parts of the bodies and have no effect on a zombie. Plastering a living human's body and limbs with shrapnel is devastating. Plastering a zombie's body and limbs with shrapnel won't do anything. Blowing off an arm or a leg won't kill them either. Not against a grenade killing a few and causing some crawlers, but they're not a great weapon against zombies either. 

 

Being able to throw a rock hard enough to destroy a brain is doable but seriously how often is that going to work? You need to have a hell of an arm and great accuracy. Having slings or slingshots for the rocks would be cool and more realistic to getting head shots with some velocity. 

 

Lawn darts were banned for sale in late 1988, but i'm sure there were still some around in the early 90s

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by CaptKaspar

[knightshousegames]

I just meant in general with the grenade as far as a thrown weapon in warfare that is actually legitimately lethal....compared to say ninja stars and throwing knives and stuff. Theres a reason slings and bow and arrows existed, because until explosives were invented, hand thrown weapons were just OK

 

And really, with Zombies, if you caught one in the main blast and eviscerated the body to the point it was no longer able to attack you, it is functionally dead.

 

Yeah, theres a reason theres only a few dozen pitchers make it in the Major League.  As it turns out, throwing really fast and really accurately is really really difficult. And I'd bet even the best pitchers in baseball history couldn't hit a moving target with the same kind of accuracy they hit a catcher's mitt from a stationary position at a measured distance without someone trying to kill them.

 

Actual primitive Slings can do the job, but thats not a skill you can directly equate to the "aiming" skill in the game because it's just SO different, if the rock even goes in front of you it's a miracle if you haven't been training for years. Balearic Slingers made a lot of money hiring themselves out as mercenaries in the ancient world because they had to train from childhood to get good enough to use a sling in battle. As for elastic slingshots, unless you have a German accent and are capable of saying "Let me show you it's features" convincingly, you probably aren't pulling back enough rubber to land a legit killing blow. The little Daisy slingshots with the tube elastic bands next to the airsoft guns over at Dick's Sporting Goods will shoot your eye out, but probably not kill anybody reliably. You could probably shoot out your neighbor's windows if they aren't boarded up though.

 

Oh, I remember finding my parent's lawn darts, they had forgotten about them in the shed when we were like 5. They mysteriously disappeared after that day.....

 

Apparently for a time The Romans fielded something similar, but much like a lot of thrown weapons in warfare, they weren;t really about getting kills and were more for breaking up enemy formations, because no one wanted to be the guy who did get hit.

Edited November 14, 2022 by knightshousegames

[Zombiologist]

As far as lawn darts go those things still circulated for quite a while after production stopped. I still rarely see them around.

As far as throwing rocks, yes at an appreciable distance it's really hard, but at 10-20 feet it's doable by the average person with a few attempts. You can go try it yourself, put a watermelon on a stump and try throwing some fist sized rocks at it. I also think it's easy to underestimate how much damage a rock can do if you've never been hit by one. It is hard and unforgiving. Getting hit by a thrown rock could definitely do some damage even if it's just an average strength person. It's one of the reasons they have been a popular weapon for as long as anybody can remember. They're easy to find and they hurt alot and have even been known to cause fatalities. It's actually a real problem in parts of the world, such as the US Mexico border, where people throwing rocks has become a common and serious hazard.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Zombiologist

[knightshousegames]

Another thought I had in favor of having a generic throw command

 

When they add animals in Build 42, if they add dogs, you could throw twigs or tennis balls and play fetch

 

Have it reduce your stress, unhappyness, and boredom if the dog brings it back to you